View Full Version : Possible Looks with RED
Martin Jäger
05-01-2007, 06:32 AM
Hej!
I thought it could be interesting to see what kind of looks can be achieved
with digital RAW data. so i started to experiment on pictures i took with
my "old" Canon 10D (6 megapix).
i only used plain color correction - no other tools or even masks.
for the black&white images i used the channelmixer.
Please join and post your favourite looks - the only rule: it must come from
a digital source.... greetings martin
Edit:
ok, i try to put it in another way: i want to see what's possible with raw. where are the limits. how far can you push
your curves that your image still remains somewhat organic...
here one of the images in it's "original" color and contrast:
http://nordeffects.ch/red_looks/LansiSatama_orig_colors.jpg
http://nordeffects.ch/red_looks
TimothyD
05-01-2007, 06:40 AM
Nice reel.
Daniel Reichenbach
05-01-2007, 06:50 AM
Hej!
I thought it could be interesting to see what kind of looks can be achieved
with digital RAW data. so i started to experiment on pictures i took with
my "old" Canon 10D (6 megapix).
i only used plain color correction - no other tools or even masks.
for the black&white images i used the channelmixer.
Please join and post your favourite looks - the only rule: it must come from
a digital source.... greetings martin
http://nordeffects.ch/red_looks
Hmmm, sorry, but when REDfootage look like this, I won't be happy. What kind of artefacts are in the sky? Grain?
Emery Wells
05-01-2007, 06:50 AM
Its always fun to look at images and i dont want to sound like im discouraging it but this thread is somewhat silly. And unless you are posting the originals, your 'looks' don't bear much relevance. Again, not trying to discourage any artistic expression but I think it can be agreed that if your footage is shot correctly almost any 'look' imaginable can be achieved in post.
Carry on,
Sourpuss Emery :-)
Martin Jäger
05-01-2007, 09:38 AM
the meaning was to reach the limit of the most extreme curves you can apply to an image. i agree you can do whatever in post - but not with images
that are nailed down to 10 or 8 bit from the beginning. it's about the RAW.
in those images i posted first i tried to get close to an infra-red look. and yess - of course you get more noise when you push all the channels to the limit - but my intend is to get looks that still have an organic feel - and as less digital artefacts as possible. grain to me looks organic - DCT artefacts don't.
the good thing is also that the red sensor has double the pixels than my ol' 10D. so any "grain" will be even smoother
martin
I Bloom
05-01-2007, 02:48 PM
The images on your server are JPEGS.
I think you need to use TIFFs or JPEG 2000, start with 16 bit and then posturize to 10 bit before you start processing.
Here are two aweful ones. I don't like them asthetically or technically. But I figured I'd get it rolling.
http://ianbloom.com/LansiSatama_greenattempt.jpg
http://ianbloom.com/LansiSatama_yellowattempt.jpg
damonbots
05-01-2007, 03:50 PM
A bit gloomy, but my preference for this type of picture...
Craig W. Bickerstaff
05-01-2007, 04:44 PM
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g214/river_felix/LansiSatama.jpg
Martin Jäger
05-01-2007, 11:43 PM
here the raw file i used:::
http://nordeffects.ch/red_looks/LansiSatama.CRW
martin
I Bloom
05-02-2007, 12:20 AM
CraigWB.... nice.
Martin,
TIFF is probably better I can't import CRW into Shake or Photoshop.
I think its good to use the same image and compare. But this one doesn't do it for me, what else have you got?
Something that is interesting to note is that this exercise is more futile than it seems because it doesn't take into account motion. When we push these images hard some of the artifacts that emerge are more apparent when you see them "crackling" in motion, try isolating some colors and saturating them in DVCProHD and you'll see what I mean.
IB
Simon Blackledge
05-02-2007, 12:28 AM
http://idisk.mac.com/simonblackledge/Public/Red/grade.jpg
Steakslim
05-02-2007, 12:37 AM
This could kill time for those reservation holders on here.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2804/lansisatamacgeditionrf6.jpg
Simon Blackledge
05-02-2007, 12:50 AM
oh I like that!... ;)
s
Martin Jäger
05-02-2007, 01:42 AM
steakslim; me likes that one...
ibloom:
ok, i see - are you sure you can't import canon raw into photoshop? that must be a pretty old version (?) - the thing is that it gets a littlebit
pointless when you start to work on a nailed down image - the fun starts with raw because there you have the possibilities to push and pull stops, change temperature, switch of sharpening, apply a curve before you even nail it down to 16bit - of course i can give you a 16bit tiff - but that will allready limit you..
about motion and artefacts - i agree on certain things like aliasing which becomes more visible in a moving image - but that shouldn't anyways be the problem since you have a 4k image out of red with graemes magic de-bayering :biggrin: - and if you watch for instance my "grain" in the sky, that will actually benefit from any movement - smoothen out, to speak.
martin
PS: i'll post a "neutral" tiff 16bit in a sec..
here it is:http://nordeffects.ch/red_looks/RAW&16bit_tif/
What lens/aperture did you use on this? I ask because there seems to be a bit of diffraction or the lens mightnt be up to par.. Probably not the best sample image to play with.
Edit: But heres my go at it anyway:
Martin Jäger
05-02-2007, 04:52 AM
... i used a canon EF 24-105mm 4L - it's a very nice allround lens but i was actually allmost running to a meeting when i took the pic - so it might simply not be in focus :blink:...
martin
YOU NASTY!! that must be a russian machine since we are in finland...
I Bloom
05-02-2007, 08:07 AM
about motion and artefacts - i agree on certain things like aliasing which becomes more visible in a moving image - but that shouldn't anyways be the problem since you have a 4k image out of red with graemes magic de-bayering :biggrin: - and if you watch for instance my "grain" in the sky, that will actually benefit from any movement - smoothen out, to speak.
I'm thinking about compression artifacts (a big question mark with Wavelet for me right now) and posturization (which could be a problem in highlights and shadows). Yeah my photoshop is old, CS3 extended looks nice but I have other things to spend my money on. My favorite headline from a satire newspaper called The Onion was "Photoshop Purchased".
IB
(ok the best headline was actually, "Alzheimer's Patients March on Random Building to Protest Pancakes")
Hannes Isaksson
05-02-2007, 09:31 AM
It's fun not to work...
http://hannesisaksson.se/annat/LansiSatama_16_lowcon2.jpg
bigger (http://hannesisaksson.se/annat/LansiSatama_16_lowcon.jpg)
McDiver
05-02-2007, 11:10 AM
This is easy . . . just add red!
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/200_1178129404.jpg
Steakslim
05-02-2007, 03:13 PM
This is easy . . . just add red!
*pic edited out*
OH SHI..!!! Is that Jim's new jet?
Steakslim
05-02-2007, 04:30 PM
Uhm, I went back and I tried adding RED to the one I did...but this is what came out:
http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5677/redmasterplanqx9.jpg
Did i uncover Jim's master plan?
PS 10000000000 hrs in photoshop
Jaime Vallés
05-02-2007, 04:35 PM
You should write "CineAlta" on the side of that chopper there...
Steve Gibby
05-02-2007, 05:40 PM
LOL! Steakslim & McDiver, you guys rock...
Ace - I like the gradients on the sky. Bet you wondered if anyone would notice the B52 dropping bombs in the one frame. I spent a full year tour in Viet Nam as an air traffic controller for the Air Force - I noticed the B52 first!
heheh, finally someone noticed! Dropping bombs of love ofcourse!
Gibby your diverse professional background continues to enthrall me... Amazing.
Steakslim
05-02-2007, 06:21 PM
heheh, finally someone noticed! Dropping bombs of love ofcourse!
Gibby your diverse professional background continues to enthrall me... Amazing.
He was once the stunt double for the cow in "Twister".
Steve Gibby
05-02-2007, 06:24 PM
Yeah Ace...I've been real fortunate to see and do a lot of things so far!
I was a "techie" before the phrase was ever coined. From 1968 to 1978 I was an air traffic controller - 4 years Air Force, 6 years Federal Aviation Administration. I worked in the tower and radar approach control at several busy international airports. I worked with the most advanced computers, radar systems, and electronics of the day. I quit ATC in 1978 because it was really too hard on my health, went back to college, and re-trained into television and film. I started still photography clear back in 1969, with a Nikon F that I bought in Hong Kong while on leave. I still like looking at the images I shot in Viet Nam and around Asia back then. I knew then that some day I'd quit ATC and go into making images for a living...
Steve Gibby
05-02-2007, 06:26 PM
He was once the stunt double for the cow in "Twister".
Oh yeah...that was a tough gig! It's really hard to bounce and fly good, even in a cow suit...
MosesMa
05-02-2007, 06:27 PM
You guys are such crackups.
Yeah Ace...I've been real fortunate to see and do a lot of things so far!
I was a "techie" before the phrase was ever coined. From 1968 to 1978 I was an air traffic controller - 4 years Air Force, 6 years Federal Aviation Administration. I worked in the tower and radar approach control at several busy international airports. I worked with the most advanced computers, radar systems, and electronics of the day. I quit ATC in 1978 because it was really too hard on my health, went back to college, and re-trained into television and film. I started still photography clear back in 1969, with a Nikon F that I bought in Hong Kong while on leave. I still like looking at the images I shot in Viet Nam and around Asia back then. I knew then that some day I'd quit ATC and go into making images for a living...
Wow what a story! So this is the "American Dream" you guys speak so highly of. It truly is.
No doubt you will have some interesting memoirs to write.. But not too soon!
Steve Gibby
05-02-2007, 06:41 PM
Wow what a story! So this is the "American Dream" you guys speak so highly of. It truly is.
No doubt you will have some interesting memoirs to write.. But not too soon!
Technology has always been intoxicating to me, and I suspect it always will be...
When I pass on, a lifetime of images shot around the world will tell my story better than my words ever could...
Side note: ATC is arguably the most stressful occupation in the world. When I transitioned to TV and film work, I started working with people who would freak out about the stress of media work (deadlines, etc.). After a few "Let me tell you about a stressful job" conversations describing ATC work, nobody seemed to complain about the stress of media work any more!
Yes I've watched a few doco's telling of how it is the most stressful job in the world.. I mean, the pilot has the hands of a few hundred passengers in his hands.. You wouldve had an entire airspace of lives to worry about. Let alone in war... geez. The job must come with good health insurance.
Steve Gibby
05-02-2007, 07:10 PM
Ace,
Here's what it's like:
10-hour days, scheduled overtime, understaffed, faulty equipment (radar, computers, and radios), hyper-busy airspace, and on and on...
In a 10 hour shift in the radar approach control at a busy international airport, you may personally separate aircraft worth an aggregate value of billions of dollars, and maybe 150,000 lives aboard. At peak hours you're "flying" between 10 and 25 aircraft, each of which is separated by 1,000' vertically or 3 miles horizontally and longitudinally. They're on instruments, and you're keeping them apart. About 20,000 different separation rules must be applied rapidly all day in rapidly changing situations and weather. You can't sleep at night. You wake up in cold sweats from nightmares about mid-air collisions and near misses. Guys around you that are in their 20's die suddenly of heart attacks, cancer, and weird stress-related illnesses. No, the medical system to help with that stress is almost non-existent. I just told the supervisor one day that I needed off the busy position I was on. Once unplugged, I just walked out the door and didn't look back. I was 30 years old then...If I hadn't I'd have been dead before I was 35.
My health returned from a lot of surfing, other sports, clean living, and good food...and I hope to live, travel, and work to 90 (I'm 58 now). Life is full of choices...leaving ATC was one of the best choices I ever made.
Good air traffic controllers are born, not trained. The critical in-born skills are abstract reasoning and spatial orientation. If you don't have those abilities, no amount of training will make you a professional air traffic controller. People used to ask what I did for work. My stock answer was "I keep metal apart for a living", or "I make sure there isn't aluminum showers on the city".
I've thought of producing/directing a documentary on ATC, or maybe a D-Cinema feature centered around it. It would be a lot more intense and accurate than the only feature that's been done about it - "Pushing Tin".
I may get around to that some day...
Michael Schrengohst
05-02-2007, 07:23 PM
Catch the train
http://www.motionzonehd.com/files/footage_upload/red_train_final.jpg
Geez.. I thought it was bad. I didnt think it was that bad.. Cancer, mid 20's Heart attacks... crash nightmares... Farout.. And I cant believe the fact that on top of this the conditions were substandard?
I mean, fine.. Say you have a stressful job but at least youd expect good working conditions to keep everyone happy.. But understaffed, faulty equipment, 10 hour days.. dont tell me they didnt allow you toilet breaks either?
My hat goes off to you.. Thats some amazing stuff. My respect for air traffic controllers just multiplied by infinity.
A real "expose" documentary would be such a good piece I reckon. Would make brilliant reality drama. Im surprised they havent turned it into a reality show (or have they?).
Steve Gibby
05-02-2007, 07:34 PM
The bizarre thing is that I've stayed on top of development in aviation ever since I left ATC. From my readings, the conditions of the job haven't changed much since I left it 29 years ago! Maybe the conditions are better in some countries, but U.S. controllers still report and complain about exactly what I outlined for you...
Not much media has been done on ATC. One feature I know of "Pushing Tin", and portions of a few documentaries. IMO in order to script and produce/direct a doc or feature accurately on ATC you'd really have to either have been an ATC or seasoned pilot.
Maybe I'll do it...with RED One's!
I am quite glad that you were able to drop one career in search for another. Thats an entirely different topic altogehter, but its an important point nonetheless because its something that many people experience, and its not an easy thing to do at 30. I guess in your case you had no choice, but to make such a comeback after a career change, is well.. a fairy tale really. A career change is something a few of us have to face in the ever changing pursuit of our dreams.. It does take guts, and it does require risk. But better to have done and be sorry, than regretting not doing anything at all. I always try to learn from other peoples experiences and your story contains a valuable lesson indeed.
I imagine you would be the first ever ATC film-maker to do it.. Would be quite a thing!
BTW, pushing tin was an excellent film.. I wouldve thought they were over dramatising for effect.. But really, its quite the contrary it seems.
Jeremy Hughes
05-03-2007, 05:19 AM
In a 10 hour shift in the radar approach control at a busy international airport, you may personally separate aircraft worth an aggregate value of billions of dollars, and maybe 150,000 lives aboard. At peak hours you're "flying" between 10 and 25 aircraft, each of which is separated by 1,000' vertically or 3 miles horizontally and longitudinally. They're on instruments, and you're keeping them apart. About 20,000 different separation rules must be applied rapidly all day in rapidly changing situations and weather. You can't sleep at night. You wake up in cold sweats from nightmares about mid-air collisions and near misses. Guys around you that are in their 20's die suddenly of heart attacks, cancer, and weird stress-related illnesses. No, the medical system to help with that stress is almost non-existent. I just told the supervisor one day that I needed off the busy position I was on. Once unplugged, I just walked out the door and didn't look back. I was 30 years old then...If I hadn't I'd have been dead before I was 35.
Wow, that's one job I'd hate to have. Especially becuase I don't handle responsibillity very well. I actually felt like throwing up when I was reading this.
What was the pay like? Hehe.
Steve Gibby
05-03-2007, 06:01 AM
Wow, that's one job I'd hate to have. Especially becuase I don't handle responsibillity very well. I actually felt like throwing up when I was reading this.
What was the pay like? Hehe.
Pay was pretty good...but not when compared to the stress toll (health, etc.) it takes on everyone.
In surf slang, it's a "gnarly job dude!"
-----------------------
BTW - Great "RED Train" RED Guy, loved it!
Hans von Sonntag
05-03-2007, 06:41 AM
Hi Gibby,
Its great to get some personal insight into the lives of other people in this forum. Thanks a lot!
Here over in Germany ATCs have "only" 5-6 hours a shift and retire early. They used to be employed by the state and were soso paid. Nowadays they work in a privately held company (still owned by the state) and get paid very well. Still it's hard to find talented new blood.
On the film making side: I find it vital that the filmmaker tells a story she/he really understands, even lived though or is connected some how. This is the reason for instance why I will not shoot chasing cars since I never got in such an event. Shooting such things will be fun but "secondary literature" and nothing unique. For somebody else who got chased some time it will be different.
Tell us your story, with RED ONE!
Hans
Steve Gibby
05-03-2007, 06:58 AM
Thanks Hans...
I'm glad to hear that German ATC's have good working conditions. Its' a heavy job, so shorter hours and early retirement are really important.
No doubt...having lived through something brings an extra insight to the table if someone decides to produce something about it.
Hmmm...I just may write a screenplay with characters who are air traffic controllers...and produce the D-cinema feature using RED One cameras...then have a dovetail documentary for television release that documents ATC. I'm not worried about someone stealing that idea, because it's such a unique job that IMO it could only effectively be told by someone who lived it...
A D-cinema feature centered around ATC in Viet Nam would be fascinating on its own...I could easily script that, produce it, and direct it...
We'll see!
Jeremy Hughes
05-03-2007, 07:07 AM
Thanks Hans...
I'm glad to hear that German ATC's have good working conditions. Its' a heavy job, so shorter hours and early retirement are really important.
No doubt...having lived through something brings an extra insight to the table if someone decides to produce something about it.
Hmmm...I just may write a screenplay with characters who are air traffic controllers...and produce the D-cinema feature using RED One cameras...then have a dovetail documentary for television release that documents ATC. I'm not worried about someone stealing that idea, because it's such a unique job that IMO it could only effectively be told by someone who lived it...
A D-cinema feature centered around ATC in Viet Nam would be fascinating on its own...I could easily script that, produce it, and direct it...
We'll see!
Go for it!