Red & Adobe

[DogSoldier]

First, let me say that I get chills anytime I think about shooting 4k images with a 12 MPix camera. This is the revolution I had hoped for and it has come ten years earlier than I had ever dreamed.

But I also get anxious when I see that Adobe doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot. I have not only a lot of money invested in Adobe, but a lot of time as well (over 10 years).

Here's what I want.

I want to shoot on a Red camera. I want to import into Premier. I want to jump between Premier and AfterEffects and stay in Red's native Codec without any file format changes.

I want to jump into Photoshop and create 4000x3000 images and dump them into my editing software. I want to do all of this without my PC having an aneurysm.

I want two 4000x3000 dual display monitors

I then want to have a 4k file to send off to a projectionist, or a DVD authoring program, or a video-film transfer lab, or dump it down to DigiBeta... whatever format I need it in.

I want all of this and I want it to be affordable.

Then will the revolution be complete (for me at least).

[redhead]

That about sums up what I want, too, except I am not worried about staying in Red's native codec, as long as I have a good lossless codec to work with.

[Steve Freebairn]

I would like those things as well. We just need to put pressure on Adobe. The red team is willing to work with them as long as Adobe is willing to work with Red. We need to put feature requests in with Adobe so that they know there is a need there.

You're PC won't have any problems with it as long as it is powerful enough, meaning, if you invest the same amount of money as people are in their 8 core mac systems, then you should be able to do similar things (once the software integration is all the way there). There are advantages to using redcine with Premiere on the PC, you'll be able to take the footage between AE and Pr with ease and actually be able to work at whatever resolution you want as long as it is under 4096x4096 (which it will be). But, Apple's solution is quite elegant and their integration with red right now is really nice. We can only hope that Adobe will make a similar alliance with red. When they do, it will be great, the both Apple and Adobe can compete and make the workflow that much better.

Red is going to be making 4k displays, but this camera is years ahead of most of the support equipment is, so your revolution completion is probably still several years off. Don't plan on 299 dollar flat panel 4k monitors on Black Friday :) But, then again, I wouldn't complain if that happened.

My main hope is that others will start petitioning Adobe to integrate red. Let's start those feature requests now! (Feature Request Link (http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform&product=7))

[Kevin Halverson]

I too am an Adobe user and have a great interest in RED support. I already have a considerable investment in a number of seats and have no interest in abandoning either the monetary or time investment in my NLE solution.

I agree that petitioning Adobe is necessary, but letting the RED team know that we have a strong interest in a proper integration and support is equally important.

[Steve Freebairn]

khmuse, sorry if I didn't explain. I talked to many of the Red team at NAB and they want to support the 3 A's (Adobe, Avid, Apple), they just started working with Apple first because apple showed faith in the project and came to them. The red team knows there are people using adobe, they said that some of the first things they did with the red footage was done in After Effects.

Adobe needs to know that there is a need to support Red. Even if people are avid Mac users, they should be able to see that it only benefits everyone if several companies are fighting to be the best NLE supporting Red.

[Kevin Halverson]

Thanks kinobairn, I too have read the "3 A's" support comment. None the less, keeping up a discussion on the subject is something that is important and this forum seems to be frequented by many from the RED team. As such, this would seem to be the appropriate place to make our desires known.

If necessary, I would consider going with Avid, but this would be an expensive and time consuming switch and something that I would try to avoid.

[redhead]

As for the 4k displays, under Windows, would not there be a problem with Windows only supporting 8 bits/per channel of color even if it displayed the full 4k? Or is there a way to display 12 (or even 16) bits per color?

I have produced some animations by creating individual frames as 16-bit PNG files in POV-Ray then importing them to Premiere. But as far as I know, Premiere converts them down to 8 bits, at least when it exports the final animation.

[Clint Johnson]

I put in the feature request (http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform) with Adobe a while back and suggest that if you haven't done so already- do so posthaste.

[Álex Montoya]

Done that already.

[hollywoodcolor]

I also put in a feature request with Adobe.

[Yash Keough]

As for the 4k displays, under Windows, would not there be a problem with Windows only supporting 8 bits/per channel of color even if it displayed the full 4k? Or is there a way to display 12 (or even 16) bits per color?

I have produced some animations by creating individual frames as 16-bit PNG files in POV-Ray then importing them to Premiere. But as far as I know, Premiere converts them down to 8 bits, at least when it exports the final animation.

I don't know if that's true per se but Premiere Pro is coming to the Mac along with the other Adobe products so if that is true, I'm guessing it wouldn't hold true for the Mac products.

[Tom Lowe]

Join the crowd. We are stilling waiting to here how all of this is going to work with Premiere Pro and After Effects CS3.

[David Newman]

CineForm will always be an option of excellent Adobe tools support. While we can't discuss Red support details until after the camera's release, we already ship a deep pixel 4:4:4 and RAW workflow for the Adobe production suite.

[Zach Hilton]

Although Cineform is and has been a good solution for supporting many cameras that NLE's don't natively support, I would personally opt for a native NLE solution. Overall from Cineform plugins and such, the UI leaves something to be desired. Also, I like how FCP (although I'm an avid Adobe user) will incorporate a plugin where all the functionality of REDCINE will be within FCP. Thus, import native REDCODE RAW, edit, change LUTs within FCP and never have to go to REDCINE if you don't want to. Anyway, I would really, really, really like Adobe to do something like this. One can only hope...and submit feature requests!

[gurney]

The team has stated that there'll be a QuickTime codec on both platforms and a Windows AVI codec. That should pretty much do it...

[Bachman]

LOL, People saying they use Adobe products for work in this industry is like saying they use petroleum products for their car.

PS. Just started to use Photoshop Extented, Movie Paint is very cool!

[donatello b]

i not so sure Adobe is so fast to respond to new media based on their past..
how long did it take them to get native HDV support ?
premiere doesn't play 2k /4k files RT without the help of 3rd party items ...
it seems to me that what really helps adope is they allow 3rd party's to insert plug in's to their software and i think in the case of cineform - cineform inserts their own rendering/play engine which allows 2/4k RT ...
based on adobe history i say look to 3rd party's for RED solutions ..way down the line Adobe may have their own ....

[Joe Carney]

I just hope Adobe at least acknowledges the request. We can't even get that from Sony Creative Software (Vegas). Vegas supports and in some cases requires Quicktime, but not more than 8bit per channel. Would love to semm them simply adapt Vegas to Redcode/QT and see it work seamlessly.

I'd have better luck trying to get Kate Beckinsdale to leave her husband and become my mistress.