Many Questions....

[Jarred Land]

There has been a lot of excitement over the last 24 hours over the announcement of Epic and Scarlet..... with that excitement have come a lot of questions, a little confusion and sadly because of that in some cases a little anger.

I ask for a little but if patience as we finish completing the picture. We are continuing to update the information to make things more ( for example the Brochure has just been updated over on RECON ) .

Everyone take a deep breath.. we are all in this together :)

[Casey Green]

Completely understandable. Take your time to work out the details.

[Brandon Fraley]

Jarred, what was updated in the brochure? I can't find the difference.

[C.H.Haskell]

Thanks Jarred...keep up the good fight. :D

[Andrew McCarrick]

Jarred, what was updated in the brochure? I can't find the difference.

Same here... tried clear cookies and everything.

[Jarred Land]

A few things got updated.. and will continue to do so. Just check the first page at the bottom and check the date.. if there is no date, your looking at the old one, if there is today's date, its the new one.

[planet e]

in some cases a little anger.



you guys are probably pretty worn out -- just a word -- there's also some healthy discussion, and I hope you guys are not confusing reasonable discussion within the community and some of our ongoing requests with anger.

Many things have been asked of you all since this great adventure began, and we know you do the best that you can to deliver those things.

There have been many times when I have thought to myself, "there's no way they would do that or be able to do that...." and then you guys do.

So patience and trust in RED has had big pay-offs for the user community...but the user community's persistence and demands have also made RED a better camera and, I'd guess, a better camera company.

[Jarred Land]

i have no problem with healthy discussion... just bad assumptions that people make and then preach as gospel travels fast, and does nobody any good.

[Mark Toia]

I'm just completely lost, (like a few others)

So much so that I have stalled my current order of my next 3 RED ONE's.
So confusing.

I'm angry, sad, happy, anxious, worried........ :sick:

I'm one of the lucky ones where money is not really the issue.
It's just that I hate collecting cameras or having to update them ever year or so.
My ARRI's lasted 7 years and the only reason I put them on the shelf was becuase of RED, But to only get 12months out of a body is just MAD.

At the end of the day, I'll probably just wait and see what pain goes with the EPIC in the real world. Modular sounds good in the short term, But one solid bit of metal like the RED ONE and the ARRI 435 is always the best for the work horse.

Sorry Big RED, But i'm on the fence now with my wallet in hand until I see some light at the end of the tunnel. So far it's all black and I'm scared to enter. RED one was a shining light when it appeared in my life.
Thats why I was keen to purchase so many.

Great cameras none the less, Good work.

[Jarred Land]

Thanks Big T.. If you are under the impression that your RED ONE is now "old news" and is going to stay on the shelf, and be useless, you have not absorbed the full story yet, which is quite understandable... its been a bit of a flurry around here since last night.

[Edmund Boyle]

Jarred

Today was a monumenus day. I have followed Red from the begining and am amazed every time I hear announcements and the progress RED has made. I am also aghast sometimes with expectations to keep everybody happy. "Its not and will never be possible!" Even if you turned around and gave the cameras away for free, reurned everybodies money told them to keep what cameras they have, someone would stil find fault.

There are many genuine people here who support the achievements of RED,understand the frustration and feel the exhilaration you come across every day.

Please pass on a message of support to the whole RED team and I'll reiterate words from a previous post of mine yesterday.

"You have just answered my wish list in a camera that I would have thought was another generation away. I didn't think there would ever be a company that could actually put the desires of the end user first. Thank you!"

[10s]

Jarred, have you guys built any of these prototypes yet& tested? If so, will the 2/3 120fps Scarlet take a Nikon mount and turn out a decent picture? That seems to be what I need.

thx!

[Nick Ambrose]

Thanks Big T.. If you are under the impression that your RED ONE is now "old news" and is going to stay on the shelf, and be useless, you have not absorbed the full story yet, which is quite understandable... its been a bit of a flurry around here since last night.


Hey, if it's sitting on the darn shelf, I am willing to take it :)

[Jarred Land]

Jarred

Today was a monumenus day. I have followed Red from the begining and am amazed every time I hear announcements and the progress RED has made. I am also aghast sometimes with expectations to keep everybody happy. "Its not and will never be possible!" Even if you turned around and gave the cameras away for free, reurned everybodies money told them to keep what cameras they have, someone would stil find fault.

There are many genuine people here who support the achievements of RED,understand the frustration and feel the exhilaration you come across every day.

Please pass on a message of support to the whole RED team and I'll reiterate words from a previous post of mine yesterday.

"You have just answered my wish list in a camera that I would have thought was another generation away. I didn't think there would ever be a company that could actually put the desires of the end user first. Thank you!"

means alot.. thx.

[Steve Sherrick]

With the overwhelming amount of options, it has created a tornado. I think everyone's heads are spinning and trying to make sense of all of the details. Red One owners naturally will wonder where the R1 fits in. The Scarlet crowd will wonder if they can actually afford the camera they hoped they were getting. And the crowd that would use Epic is sitting back going WTF just happened (in a good way of course).

I think the dust needs to settle, and when it does we'll all have the answers we need.I am amazed by the ambition that Red has for pushing themselves further than expected. They have a great vision for where they can go with this.

In the meantime, I don't think R1 owners should be worried about Scarlet and Epic. I think now is the time to get those cameras out there and introduce Red to the world, so that by the time the other cams arrive, people will know what Red is all about. There are several months to make money with a R1, and I'm sure it will still make money after the other cameras are out.

[John Logan]

Jared,

First of all, congratulations on yet another stunning achievment. Despite the fact that I'm close to taking delivery of my first R1, I'm so excited about what you guys are doing. I'm still going to by the Red One, because it's still a bad ass camera. And I know that in the future, my options will be truly liberating.

Unfortunately, I think all the people complaining about innovation are still somewhat hard wired to expect all companies to behave the same way. They clamor for new technology, and when you actually give it to them, it frightens them. People are much more comfortable complaining about what they don't have, and talking about what they want, than actually getting it.

Anyone who thinks that any of this is bad, is just a little confused, and maybe not ready to take the risks inherent to purchasing any professional equipment. Notice how all the vets are silent? Quietly contemplating what their next move will be, keeping to themselves whatever concerns they may have. Because they already know that everything will be better than okay, it'll be great.

Thanks for your patience. I honestly don't know how you guys put up with some of the crap people say in this forum.

Congrats again. I can't wait to get my Red One and actually be invested in this company.

- Logan

[Mark Toia]

Thanks Big T.. If you are under the impression that your RED ONE is now "old news" and is going to stay on the shelf, and be useless, you have not absorbed the full story yet, which is quite understandable... its been a bit of a flurry around here since last night.

I'm sure it has been... You've all created quite a stir to say the least.

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

the only things I'm waiting for is the pricing for other stuff acc, mounts, controllers, lenses etc...

[Spike Baumann]

Hey Jarred, keep on keeping on. No worries here.

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Hey RED guys I'm out of the fence ... I selected not to own a RED... I waited... I was very skeptical... in some point of time I challenged Jim and Graeme very aggressively... probably RED team hold some kind of a catalog and have pencil me as a bad saying...

Today, I feel, that my small drop on the ocean has done something, and the new philosophy of Jim (RED team) is almost 90% to the right track. And I'm telling that with a deep knowledge in the subject as an industrial design engineer... Also as a business man that I had three times a booth in IBC selling highly radical systems, I can say that Jim's position in the upgrade path is one of a kind... its basically creating a fortress around the first "believers" that is almost annoying to the rest of the potential buyers...

I can't understand how someone could be frustrated...

OK today your camera is not a stock option any more... you can't expect something that you bought 25K to sell it 30K anymore...

But hey that is very normal...

Relax guys... you are not in the stock exchange or in the real estate business... you just buying equipment to use, and from the usage to make an earning...

[Andrae Palmer]

I'm just completely lost, (like a few others)

So much so that I have stalled my current order of my next 3 RED ONE's.
So confusing.

I'm angry, sad, happy, anxious, worried........ :sick:

I'm one of the lucky ones where money is not really the issue.
It's just that I hate collecting cameras or having to update them ever year or so.
My ARRI's lasted 7 years and the only reason I put them on the shelf was becuase of RED, But to only get 12months out of a body is just MAD.

At the end of the day, I'll probably just wait and see what pain goes with the EPIC in the real world. Modular sounds good in the short term, But one solid bit of metal like the RED ONE and the ARRI 435 is always the best for the work horse.

Sorry Big RED, But i'm on the fence now with my wallet in hand until I see some light at the end of the tunnel. So far it's all black and I'm scared to enter. RED one was a shining light when it appeared in my life.
Thats why I was keen to purchase so many.

Great cameras none the less, Good work.

Me too... was sitting on the fence for 2 more REDs seeing what would happen then BAM todays news came out. I can't update two more RED One bodies to Epic plus accessories... all the while the Scarlet is cheaper and better.... way better. Heck I don't care if it has less frame rate options and a smaller brain. It's damn better. Another issue is that the low end Epic is not desirable... at least not to me. That means I'll have to spend about 27,000 to upgrade to the FF35 Epic. I wish the low end Epic had a better chip than the high end Scarlet.

I still love RED and got my money on stand by for a purchase... but darn you guys are crazy mad men and I got to be mad too.

[David Birdy]

There has been a lot of excitement over the last 24 hours over the announcement of Epic and Scarlet..... with that excitement have come a lot of questions, a little confusion and sadly because of that in some cases a little anger.

I ask for a little but if patience as we finish completing the picture. We are continuing to update the information to make things more ( for example the Brochure has just been updated over on RECON ) .

Everyone take a deep breath.. we are all in this together :)



Dear Jim and Red team,

Thanks for your hard work and product support.
I can now see why Jim gets very little sleep, He,(they) are on the ride of their life!
Thanks for having me as a passenger on this ride, I love it!

So you have now expanded your product line to allow people from all budget areas to become users and also offered a trade in policy at full value for Red One owners....Smart...very smart!

A strong Red Digital company with a diverse product line will benefit us all !!!

I really like the Redcode update !

Best Regards
Dave

[number6]

I kinda sensed when RED (Jim) decided to scrap the safe route to Scarlet and Epic and re-invent something we used to call a camera (Now a DSMC System). He actually pretty much told us so on this forum.

I guess you could compare what you've done with Detroit telling the public "We've decided to change... from now on we will begin replacing the automobile with something called a Personal Hover Craft!"

Once everyone gets used to the idea of making images with a DSMC, all this trepidation and confusion will settle into acceptance and wholesale enthusiasm, at least that's my prediction. And it looks to me like the R1 is our transition "car" for moving from a camera to a DSMC world.

I don't yet know how to drive the new "hovercraft" of a camera, but there aren't any models available now anyway. Still I'm eager to learn so when it gets here I can step into the pilot seat and just drive off.

You guys gonna set up simulators or anything?

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys,

The RED One today is better than every single camera that Jim announced. It beats Scarlet, and slams Epic to the ground.

No contest.. RED is a better camera. So don't worry about it.

Why do I say this?

CAUSE THE RED ONE IS HERE!!! WORKING!!!!! RIGHT NOW!!!!

Do you think these new cameras are coming out next month? In two? Hell in SIX!?!? NO!!! Remember how long it took the RED One to get up and running!!!

My prediction: You have close to a YEAR if not more to work, make money, be creative, and amaze your clients.

Even if you KNEW Scarlet and Epic were coming out in one year, does that mean you'd wait again? I hope you say "yes" so I can think about all the work and contacts I will make with my WORKING RED while you sit on the fence!!!

:)

Jay

[number6]

CAUSE THE RED ONE IS HERE!!! WORKING!!!!! RIGHT NOW!!!!



Easy Jay... easy does it... did you remember to take your lithium tablets? No... NO! JAY... DON'T EAT THE BATTERY... IT'S NOT THE SAME THING... PUT...THE...BATTERY....DOUN...EATING THE BATTERY WILL KILL YOU ... TAKING THE PILL WILL KEEP YOU FROM KILLING US!

there now... take the pill... there now, don't you feel better?

----------------------------------------------

Just having some fun with you Jay while remembering your famous rant:) No harm intended.

[Cal Brunker]

I posted this in another thread, but it was quickly lost by the land slide of other posts.

What I'm really looking for is an EPIC S35 upgrade from my R1 with Monstros Dynamic Range, instead of Mysterium X. Is there a tech reason that the smaller s35 sensor couldn't deliver this/ be made from the same stuff? For us R1 PL mount users, this is the perfect upgrade path! I feel like buying the FF35 is a waste as it crops all of my good glass, including my RED PL mount PRIMES when they get here.

PS, My R1 rules planet earth, I'm just curious.

Cal

[Jarred Land]

The story isn't complete Callan.. the details are still being polished, and the only thing we can promise is that things may change.

[Jason Ing]

Easy Jay... easy does it... did you remember to take your lithium tablets? No... NO! JAY... DON'T EAT THE BATTERY... IT'S NOT THE SAME THING... PUT...THE...BATTERY....DOUN...EATING THE BATTERY WILL KILL YOU ... TAKING THE PILL WILL KEEP YOU FROM KILLING US!

there now... take the pill... there now, don't you feel better?

----------------------------------------------

Just having some fun with you Jay while remembering your famous rant:) No harm intended.

Maybe there's lead or mercury in the Red One's body.

And since Jay loves to lick his Red One's body....

[Peter Plevritis]

I agree with Callan. I'd like the S35 with Monsto's Dynamic Range. That is exactly what I was thinking.

Polish those details and make them shiny.

[Peter Lyons Collister, ASC]

Way back when I first ordered my Red One I talked about the new business model Jim and Red have created. I have so many friends in the 35mm and digital rental business. The concern is that a Panaflex is viable and lasts for 35 years. Next week I use the same Platinum I used 15 years ago.
Digital cinema cameras such as Genesis, Sony F35, Arri D-21 cost 250,000 and their lifespan in 5-7 years.
This makes the rental market almost impossible. Now with interchangable and upgradable "brains" the Scarlet and Epic make sense in this new world of tough budgets on even the largest studios.
Red One is a great camera, yet a beta in this new market. And we are the beta testers.
I am excited about the future of not just Red but of Digital Cinema.

Perhaps others camera companies will create a modular, upgradable system and we will all benefit from the competition.

Peter

[Zac C]

Why am i such a nerd.... I am currently spending my time going through the new updated version.. cause i printed out the first one... too see what was changed...


I should find a girl... Jarred, hook me up?

[reality]

Way back when I first ordered my Red One I talked about the new business model Jim and Red have created. I have so many friends in the 35mm and digital rental business. The concern is that a Panaflex is viable and lasts for 35 years. Next week I use the same Platinum I used 15 years ago.

Once digital projection goes past a certain tipping point, the cost of prints will skyrocket which will start a chain reaction forcing more and more screens to digital

Then the subsidized cost of processing camera neg will also go up and make shooting film more and more costly.

At that point the current life cycle of a panaflex starts to change radically.

The threat to film cameras is not digital cameras but instead digital projection.

[M Most]

The threat to film cameras is not digital cameras but instead digital projection.

Production and distribution are two completely different things. The fact is that essentially all high end post production is now done using digital techniques. Nearly all features shot on film are post produced via a digital intermediate process. The deliverables that are created from a DI consist of both digital and film products. The notion that somehow film production and film projection are tied together ignores the current facts. It also ignores the fact that there is a very large world outside of the United States. In that world, film distribution is very strong and the financial model for digital projection is not attractive. Hell, the financial model for just about anything that involves spending money is unattractive right now.

The only real direct connection between film production and digital projection is the likelihood that without the revenue from print film, it is difficult to imagine Kodak and Fuji continuing with the manufacture of film negative at a price that makes it a sensible choice for production. But due to the large existing worldwide infrastructure for film distribution, the time frame for that is likely to be a ways off, and the current financial climate makes that situation even stronger.

[Jannard]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22052

[Kholi Hicks]

I've said countless amounts of time that this is what I wanted from a camera:

35mm Sensor
2K/60P
Interchangeable Lenses
Acceptable Post Format
HVX Sized


S35 Scarlet is it. Now? We wait to see when we get a crack at it.

[number6]

So, I can keep my Red One and be the brains behind the camera... a master/slave relationship. Or I can upgrade to an Epic brain and change that to a slave/master relationship (Jim, you did call it a 'Master' Professional?)

I think this company is taking all the fun out of imaging.

[Larry McKee]

What I'm really looking for is an EPIC S35 upgrade from my R1 with Monstros Dynamic Range, instead of Mysterium X. Cal

Yes, please. S35 Monstro. I'll take it to go.

[Zul, Y]

Jarred, have you guys built any of these prototypes yet& tested? If so, will the 2/3 120fps Scarlet take a Nikon mount and turn out a decent picture? That seems to be what I need.

thx!

Yes, same here!
While the S35 Scarlet will be the popular choice for Red One owners and other professional users, I believe the 2/3 Scarlet will be for the 1/3" hd with 35mm adapters crowd and still photographers looking to move on to hd video. Owning a couple of Nikon lenses myself, it'll be great if the nikon mount could be used on the 2/3 Scarlet. There's no need to source/rent for B4 or 2/3" lenses and we save alot from not having to purchase or wait for the mini-red primes. We can start shooting straightaway!

On another note, can it take a PL mount as well for super16 lenses? :)

[Jannard]

Yes to PL and Nikon mount but you have difficulty shooting wide with these lenses.

Jim

[Jarred Land]

2/3" Scarlet will take a nikon/canon mount.. absolutely. You of course are gonna only be using the very center of your lens though so your focal length will be pretty drastically multiplied/

[JimmyC]

Yes to PL and Nikon mount but you have difficulty shooting wide with these lenses.

Jim

Ok cool.

How easy will it be to swap these mounts? For instance, if I have rented a b4 zoom, and have a set of mini-red primes, will I be able to swap them on set?

And what sort of C-Mount lenses will it be compatible with?

Thanks guys!

Jim

[Jannard]

4 bolts... and a quick back-focus check. Schneider makes a great set of C-mount lenses, but the mini-RED mount primes will be better. :-)

Jim

[Paul Leeming]

....and a quick back-focus check.
Would love to hear more on this aspect Jim, if it's not spilling any proprietary secrets ahead of time!

Cheers,

Paul

[Mark Pugh]

4 bolts... and a quick back-focus check.

Jim

How is the back focus check done? There doesn't seem to the same kind of adjustment mechanism as on the Red One.

[Eki Halkka]

2/3" Scarlet will take a nikon/canon mount.. absolutely. You of course are gonna only be using the very center of your lens though so your focal length will be pretty drastically multiplied/

Am i far off, if i estimate about a 2,5X crop factor?

My guess is, there will be a big demand for high quality 0,4X SLR wide angle adapter lenses which would convert the lens lengthts roughly to S35mm sensor realm... i bet a lot of people will accept a hit in quality for the ability to use cheap SLR glass effectively on a 3/4" Scarlet.

...as far as adapters go, which has the bigger focal flange, Nikon/Canon mounts or C-mount?

My second guess is, there will be an equally big demand for C-mount to Nikon/Canon mount adapters (or the other way around, which ever allows infinity focus) - they would be the solution for more or less instantly switching between SLR glass and movie glass.

[Jarred Land]

Hey Halsu... yeah someone will most likely make a Canon mount relay.. like they do PL to B4... the only sad thing is you loose the magic depth of field.

[Dave Cooper]

Am i far off, if i estimate about a 2,5X crop factor?

I think it's more like 4x if I'm not mistaken. This was discussed before awhile ago but I forget the exact numbers.

7mm - c-mount
18mm - DX sensor
28mm - 35mm film

[Petr Dvorak]

yep it's 3.9x


Mini Red Primes Lens Equivalences: 2/3" to S35

(10.1x5.35 > 30x15)

6.5mm T1.9 > 19.1mm 5.6f
8mm T1.5 > 23.5mm 4.4f
16mm T1.5 > 47.0mm 4.4f
25mm T1.8 > 73.4mm 5.6f
50mm T2.9 > 146.7mm 8.5f
75mm T4.0 > 220.1mm 11.7f

[Christopher Adams]

That the idea is we can use canon/nikon glass even on the $2500.00 2/3 body with a swap of the mount and a wide angle converter to restore some of the wide angle properties of the lens..but with a slight quality hit?
CJ

[Lee Jay]

Okay, some specific questions. All of these are requesting "rough" answers (something like +/- 25%).

- How much would the Scarlet FF35 configuration weigh in the dSLR mode posted, without the portrait grip or any lenses? I think this was a brain, mount, EVF, remote, recording device and grip, but I could be wrong. Remember, I'm asking to remove the lens and portrait grip from the images posted.
- What type of autofocus system would it have with Canon or Nikon lenses, if any? With RED lenses? Would the Canon IS/Nikon VR systems be active? Would lens aperture control work with the Canon/Nikon lenses?
- How long could the camera operate with a single battery in the single grip, with no images being taken (just looking through the EVF) before the battery became depleted?
- How much would the complete system described with no lenses and no portrait grip cost (remember, this is "rough")?