Small Ergonomic Feature Request

[Daniel García]

I've been thinking about the stills style handgrip... its design may be perfect for stills mode, but nobody has been entirely convinced by its usability for motion. It's one of the first things people criticize of the new video DSLRs. Why should RED repeat their mistakes?

As an aside, in the famous exploded view:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/11/red-dsmc.jpg
...can some explain to me what the second, horizontally mounted handgrip is there for?

On the other hand, when I think of a handgrip designed for video that's been highly reviewed, I think of the EX1's rotable one. It allows you to change from high to normal to low mode of operation easily.

I think that RED should consider a version of this design for the DMSC system, if not as a substitution to their handgrip design, at least as an alternative. It should be robust, and easy to lock and unlock from a position.

[Stuart English]

The Grip is an accessory, so it if does not work for your specific application, then you don't have to mount it.

[Daniel García]

Not quite the answer I was expecting... I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the taboo company here as an example :(

[Evin Grant]

The bottom grip is for shooting vertical in stills mode.

BTW I hate the EX1 grip, it's too wonky and off balance.

[Jannard]

This is a completely modular system. Pick only what you want. If enough people scream bloody murder (two people do not count as "enough"), we will listen. We will obviously be adding to the accessory list over time.

Jim

[Daniel García]

Wow, never even thought of shooting a still with that monster rig. Also couldn't understand its presence in many proposed "motion" rigs. I guess it's time for a mindset change.
I know the EX1 is off balance, but I was thinking along Stu's post in his blog, Pictures and Clarity (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/11/pictures-and-clarity.html), about the importance or ergonomy and many other factors before a 6K sensor. A camera that doesn't get between you and the picture, a camera that adapts to the situation. A grip that rotates and adapts to your shooting position seems like a small step towards that objective.

Thank you for your answer, Mr Jannard. I'm not screaming bloody murder nor trying to sound harsh :) Just making my suggestion, if there is still time.

[DaveT]

I know the EX1 is off balance, but I was thinking along Stu's post in his blog, Pictures and Clarity (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/11/pictures-and-clarity.html), about the importance or ergonomy and many other factors before a 6K sensor. A camera that doesn't get between you and the picture, a camera that adapts to the situation. A grip that rotates and adapts to your shooting position seems like a small step towards that objective.


The interesting thing about this system is that components should be able to slide around, or be attached at a verity of points to allow novel rigs, or to improve balance, or to separate components into multiple rigs hooked together, or 3d, or bullet time.

[zak forrest]

Sweet idea, Dave.

I'm sure that has already crossed Red's mind..

[liquidigital]

I for one am so excited about the modularity. I think the RED team has done an unbelievable job, and I can foresee a real shift in the industry once these products hit the market. Regarding accessories, I'm really interested to see what a RED Flash unit will look like/ how it will mount.

[Mathew Mackereth]

The modular approach is exciting... I can't wait - the only decision is which brain....

but wondering... I think the shoulder-rest would go some way toward Hand-held-ish ergonomics, but for smaller set-ups - would it be possible to design a different, less SLR-like version of the RED handle that allows us to balance the camera with the hand in an upright position and the wrist straight?
Like the zoom rocker/handle on an ENG lens or a handycam-style small form camera... The current-DSLR style design is great for stability if holding it up for a single shot, but to hold the camera like that for an extended period of time... ouch..

For 2/3 inch versions - the ability to configure scarlet in a small form factor handycam-style handle option would be popular i'm sure... for those not wanting to expand to the shoulder style system...

perhaps this option already exists but i'm somehow not putting the pieces together correctly.... maybe it is as simple as putting a battery and remote unit in line with the brain and attaching a strap.... hmmm...

[Joseph Ward]

Do you think the hand grip can tilt or slide for extra comfort...What the hell am Im saying! Never mind. :sarcasm: Im sure third parties will make accessories for comfort/ergonomics.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I think you should consider to make it more ergonomic for the grip of your hand. No matter if you're taking stills or shooting motion we'd all appreciate if it's shaped slightly more for the grip of our hand.

From the look of it now it seems somewhat uncomfortable. The red on off button by the controls that will be operated by your thumb seems a little to far (and over the controls), maybe you could phase out a little for the thumb. Also where your whole hand is to grip seems very uncomfortable right now. I know the "grid" design is RED but don't forget that your to be able to hold onto this for many hours.

My 2...

[NateWeaver]

Also where your whole hand is to grip seems very uncomfortable right now. I know the "grid" design is RED but don't forget that your to be able to hold onto this for many hours.


I dunno, I think if it's just the right size, it will probably be ok.

When I see stuff like that, I think of the new style Arri handheld grips. They don't look like much, but damned if they're just the right size in your hand to keep things comfy. Better than round bicycle style grips.

[DaveT]

Sweet idea, Dave.

I'm sure that has already crossed Red's mind..

Ha ha, I reckon that's a 'cast iron' guarantee.

I wonder if this has occurred to them...

Two Red camera become one RedCode editor.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8639&d=1226817934

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8640&d=1226817934

[youngbert67]

I'll add my name to the list of people who would like a horizontal hand grip. A DSLR grip means your fingers take all of the weight, whereas your palm takes the weight on a traditional video camera grip. This leaves your fingers free to control zoom.
At least with the modular system this would be a simple upgrade. Obviously the specs of the fixed lens Scarlet haven't been released yet but I really hope it will include a rocker zoom control. It would be nice to see the fixed lens Scarlet come with this as standard.

[Peter Corbett]

This is a completely modular system. Pick only what you want. If enough people scream bloody murder (two people do not count as "enough"), we will listen. We will obviously be adding to the accessory list over time.

Jim

I could scream as loud as three people to get a direct Red Contax C/Y mount...

Peter

[Todd M.]

It seems to me from the documentation that there is already going to be an adjustable grip available... it's featured quite prominently for both hands on the image of the 3D rig...

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/237540/Images/page15.jpg

[Carlos Echenique]

If enough people scream bloody murder (two people do not count as "enough"), we will listen.

Unless the two people have the last name "Wachowski". :biggrin:

[red i wanabe]

Well I hope red allows third parties to design grips and accesorries. Red should keep spending their time on senor and workflow tech. let some orther guys spend 3 months developing the perfect handgrip.

P.S. red think video game controller.

[tj williams]

Since the handgrips mount on the rods, we probably already have hand grips from our other cameras that will work well. Liq digitals idea of the flash at 200 fps sounds cool.... Beer pours here we come!!!

[Rocco Schult]

"bloody murder!"


This is a completely modular system. Pick only what you want. If enough people scream bloody murder (two people do not count as "enough"), we will listen. We will obviously be adding to the accessory list over time.

Jim

[Adam Palomer]

What functions does the horizontally mounted handle in that photo control, compared to the vertically mounted (DSMC) handle?

[Steven-Marc C.]

Looks like that handle for "motion" style shooting now is part of the accessory line :

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1236416471.jpg

[Fredrik Callinggard]

This is a completely modular system. Pick only what you want. If enough people scream bloody murder (two people do not count as "enough"), we will listen. We will obviously be adding to the accessory list over time.

Jim

BLOODY MURDER :tongue:

I would love to get that handle to be more like an AATON grip - it be great to be able to use it as a stills and a motion handle

My 2 cents

[Tim Whitcomb]

er, how can you guys determine ergonomics from a photo? From the EX-1? huh? It appears to rotate anyway in the mock ups.

A rotating grip is not a bad idea... UNLESS, it means significantly longer development time. But I dont see a reason to use the grip other than for still work, and vertical is preferable, IMO for that. Horizontal grips (for soccer moms, tend to make you constantly lower the handle to find buttons)

Im a motion picture filmmaker and wont be using this with that handle very often, if at all, if Im doing stop motion (still work) then it will be on sticks.

I vote for shipping sooner versus handle ergonomics