28K Brainstorm [Archive]

Daniel García

11-15-2008, 04:14 PM

Everybody's first reaction is "What the hell does anybody even need 28k for?"
Let's get hypothetical!
It's an inderterminate future post-2010.Say, for example, computers have superceded silicon and now they're not switching electron but photons. Moore's law has therefore accelerated BRUTALLY. You can almost do anything by brute force.
What would you do with 28k?

Mark L. Pederson

11-15-2008, 04:18 PM

digital signage market = $$$$$$$$

Daniel García

11-15-2008, 04:23 PM

Place one overhead camera on top of a Formula1 circuit, giving you a satellite/cenital view of the whole event. Feed that to a MS-Surface-style interface where you can choose which cars to frame (optionally with automatic motion traking) depending of where's the action. Make impressive zoom out/in transitions. Do not watch entire race from this perspective to avoid boredom.

Daniel García

11-15-2008, 04:26 PM

Make one whole movie about the inhabitants of a building block.
http://guerreroerrante.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/rue_percebe-_color.gif
And then project it at real size.:bleh:

Carl-August Savgård

11-15-2008, 04:27 PM

I for one thinks this will change the way photographers work... imagine shooting 25fps and afterwards choose the shot that is the best... and then you can print it on a very very large billboard, with better quality than most have today. I think it's going to be a killer, I want the 617 and a s35 monstro epic... all I have to do now is saving me some money.

Radoslav Karapetkov

11-15-2008, 04:28 PM

Reminds me of Hitchcock's Rear Window. :)

Daniel García

11-15-2008, 04:37 PM

Exactly!

I'm having fun :)

Keep 'em coming.

I'd like someone with more knowledge to discuss the optical feasibility of a high res plenoptic camera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenoptic_camera). Think about the adobe lens (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=294158#post294158). I'm reading crazy stories about usable stop ranges (f/16-f/45 :ohmy: ) and I don't know i that renders this system impossible.

Andrae Palmer

11-15-2008, 06:41 PM

This is a panoramic format... most people won't need it.. too wide.

Nick Ambrose

11-15-2008, 07:26 PM

Everybody's first reaction is "What the hell does anybody even need 28k for?"

Actually, mine was "holy crap, I wish I could afford one of those :)"

Joseph Ward

11-15-2008, 09:25 PM

Battle Shots would look awesome on this. Do you think they can up the frame rates to 30 on the 617? Just Kidding of course.:)

Deanan

11-15-2008, 09:43 PM

Battle Shots would look awesome on this. Do you think they can up the frame rates to 30 on the 617? Just Kidding of course.:)

That would start a pixel wormhole. Can't go there.

Peter Majtan

11-15-2008, 10:37 PM

I have in my library close to 3000 slides I have taken all over the world with the Fuji GX617 panorama camera, just like these:

http://www.derylgroup.com/downloads/DERYL/NZFNP/1280/NZFNPserenity.jpg

http://www.derylgroup.com/downloads/DERYL/NZFNP/1280/NZFNPview.jpg

http://www.derylgroup.com/downloads/DERYL/NZFNP/1280/NZFNPfingers.jpg

http://www.derylgroup.com/downloads/DERYL/REFERENCE/SGI_Sunset_1280.jpg

The EPIC-617 will be my retirement camera along with Scarlet 2/3" (fixed). I will continue to travel and try to capture the natural beauty this world still has to offer...

Peter

Andrae Palmer

11-16-2008, 04:38 AM

Beautiful photography Peter.

David Birdy

11-16-2008, 05:00 AM

Bingo Mark!

Dave

Peter Majtan

11-16-2008, 09:12 AM

Thanks Andrae - or is it Andrea? With 1.46GB per still frame out of this beast - this is going to be one hell of a workflow. But besides of still photography I will certainly attempt some cinematography as well - ala Baraka. Hopefully by then there will be accessible computer hardware that can handle 35 GBps required for 24P in this format... :devil:

Vigna Raajan

11-16-2008, 09:45 AM

Wow...Awesome peter...!

Peter Majtan

11-16-2008, 10:28 AM

Wow...Awesome peter...!

Thanks Vigna. How is Chennai these days? I have stayed there for several months while supervising the VFX for Alavandaan with Kamal-ji - he was a lot of fun to work with...

:) Peter

Weston Ford

11-16-2008, 12:30 PM

Exactly!

I'd like someone with more knowledge to discuss the optical feasibility of a high res plenoptic camera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenoptic_camera). Think about the adobe lens (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=294158#post294158). I'm reading crazy stories about usable stop ranges (f/16-f/45 :ohmy: ) and I don't know i that renders this system impossible.

I would like to know more about this as well.

Eduardo Ruiz

11-16-2008, 04:47 PM

My bet is: Military - Surveillance and Reconnaissance

Matthew Greene

11-16-2008, 04:55 PM

It could be used today (as could the 617 sensor size) for VFX plates and some Museum, Theme Park, corporate and specialty work. The markets and uses currently exist, they're just not "mainstream" in the traditional movie making sense. I could have used it's benefits last week on a project I shot on Greenscreen both for the Foreground and Background plates.

Radoslav Karapetkov

11-16-2008, 05:37 PM

My bet is: Military - Surveillance and Reconnaissance

I think they got these long ago.

Now they're becoming civil.

Dylan Macleod, CSC

11-16-2008, 06:52 PM

Google Earth

Alex.Mitchell

11-16-2008, 07:07 PM

I was thinking that IMAX style productions would benefit from having a camera like this for some shots.

Matthew Greene

11-16-2008, 08:12 PM

IMAX is trying to convert to digital projection and while I'm not sure of the specs of their digital projection system the big question is if it's going to be on par with the potential quality of a current IMAX film print. From what I've heard, they're planning on significantly smaller screens which makes me think it's a step backwards in the IMAX ideology although it is probably going to save them quite a bit of money in the long run.

wedowee

11-17-2008, 10:52 AM

28k, huh? So if 4k is 4 times larger than 2k, that should mean that 28k is 49 times the size of 4k. Right?

Jeff Kilgroe

11-17-2008, 11:59 AM

28K 3:1 is 261,352,000 pixels.

4K 16:9 is 9,437,184 pixels.

28K is 27.69 times larger than RED One 4K 16:9.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/535_1226951984.gif

Joseph Ward

11-17-2008, 02:02 PM

28K 3:1 is 261,352,000 pixels.

4K 16:9 is 9,437,184 pixels.

28K is 27.69 times larger than RED One 4K 16:9.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/535_1226951984.gif

Thanks for this image!

Benni Diez

11-17-2008, 03:49 PM

Just for fun:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/12229_1226965699.gif

:usd:

Jason Murphy

11-17-2008, 05:33 PM

Just for fun:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/12229_1226965699.gif

:usd:

New application for 28 K:

The "Where's Waldo?" game for iPod!

Scroll around a massive constantly moving image until you find him!

Fun for kids of all ages!

:)

Joseph Ward

11-17-2008, 05:37 PM

New application for 28 K:

The "Where's Waldo?" game for iPod!

Scroll around a massive constantly moving image until you find him!

Fun for kids of all ages!

:)

I was Waldo this Halloween! :)

Mark Ian Parkinson

11-20-2008, 09:57 PM

Battle Shots would look awesome on this. Do you think they can up the frame rates to 30 on the 617? Just Kidding of course.:)

I hope they get faster frame rates for the 617, like up to 50. I could only imagine shooting a movie with huge battle scenes like in Lord of the rings, and 617 used for principal photography, the quality and depth would be immaculate.

Zach Zoller

11-20-2008, 10:20 PM

617's 28K could definitely work great for documentary shooting, crash cam, helmet cam, home movies and of course an accessory hook up for a picture phone.

:)

J. Eric Camp

12-04-2008, 08:58 AM

Turn it sideways and shoot some one on green screen. More pixels = clean edges.

As mark said... Digital Signage.

Dominic Jones

12-04-2008, 09:15 AM

We've got an application for 28K in the works that, if it comes off (and we're a long way from getting there, so don't hold your breath) is gonna blow everyone away...

Hmmm... I think Jim's teasing nature is starting to rub off on me!

In fact, we'd love way more than 28K - bring it on...

Radoslav Karapetkov

12-04-2008, 12:21 PM

In fact, we'd love way more than 28K - bring it on...

Omg, everyone's gone Krazy.

Dominic Jones

12-05-2008, 04:02 AM

Lol, yeah - I know how that sounds! But trust me, we're doing something very, very different here - it's gonna be real fun...

Christian Edwards

12-05-2008, 08:35 PM

Turn it sideways and shoot some one on green screen. More pixels = clean edges.

As mark said... Digital Signage.you would have no trouble pulling a key from 28k ...i wonder what the depth of field would be like and how would you calibrate it ?

i had a running joke with an old flat mate when i had mistakingly call a s35 film back a 35cm film back ,we called it christianascope like it was an impossible size ....little did we know

M Korek

12-06-2008, 04:27 AM

the 28 K sensor. in real estate terms, can fit 24x4k,
imagine a front optical prisms/filters module that can reflect/redirect from a single regular lens 24 different simultaneous exposures of what the lens is seeing, the 24 images are recorded on the one big image.
Later on the software will process those big frames into an HDR single 4K frame.
4K hdr...
I suppose that for a million reasons it is impossible...

Christian Edwards

12-06-2008, 10:54 PM

M Korek

12-07-2008, 02:51 AM

Christian, the idea (or the fantasy ) is more about an incredible dynamic range obtained by achieving 24X4k images simultaneous "bracketing" using the huge surface of the sensor.
The 28 K one frame plate will have a serie of 24 images from extremely low to extremely high exposures, all recorded side by side in one frame.

This fantasy could be achieved by having the sensor enabled to achieve 24 different local sensibilities, or 24 different local shutter speeds combined with a matrix filter and/or optical filters in the prisms. This crazy combination makes the single huge sensor able to get high details from very dark to very bright to be combined in post in a single HDR image, easy... :) we have an s35 HDR motion camera.
The small lighting kit would become the only lights you'll ever need and DPs can finish the lighting in post (DDPs ?)

OK it may need a different version of the sensor which is basically 24 different sensors built like a single one.

The few stops lost in the optical module are compensated by the huge Drange.

Any expected release date ?