Is anyone else worried about this?

[Jay A. Kelley]

"RED is currently on an engineering delay, as we refine some components to reach our target image quality for the initial camera release. A revised approximate shipping schedule will be posted sometime in the near future. "

Hmmmm.. I dunno.... Not only is there no longer a shipping date, there's not even a delivery date on the schedule which tells us when they might ship!

I still believe in Jim and the boys, but I'm a little worried too.

Jay

[Ralph Oshiro]

I honestly don't care how long they take to get it "right."

[Jarred Land]

have faith Jay... the only bad thing about the delay is time, and the time is being well spent. You will thank Jim in the end for choosing the image to be paramount.

[Jason Francois]

I honestly don't care how long they take to get it "right."

I'm with Ralph.

[Jason Ing]

same here! I've been waiting a long, long time for this. I remember when the Canon XL first came out. I nixed it. And then the 35mm lens adapter came out with it. Better... but still nixed it. Finally, finally... Red at a dream price point (okay... I could dream for it to be much lower... but... back to reallity.)

I already had to wait until January or so. Now longer. Meanwhile, I've got a lot of writing and other post plans to get going.

Not happy about delays. But the REASON for the delay makes it okay with me. More dynamic range, right? ;)

By the way, I was just having a silly argument with some guy who was talking about the Silicon camera. The only thing he could criticize the Red for is "they can't ship". That's it? What a weak argument. Apparently he is willing to pay a similar price for an inferior camera just because it's shipping now and he has no patience. With a mentality like that, I wonder what the quality of his work is as well.

Hey Ralph. Nice meeting you at NAB. We'll have to get together and do that two camera Red shoot someday. :)

[David Battistella]

I'd say that it is a wise move for the RED team to get the camera "right", right out of the gate. It's better to have it working very, very well. The release of any new product of this magnitude deserves the time that it needs to be correct.

The last thing they want would be to rush the camera to market only to have the initial users "complain" about a lack of functionality or haphazard issues that may come up. This is inevitable with any new product and we know that everything needs to be continualy tweaked and improved.

The initial release will be important to the overall reception the camera gets. We are dealing with a camera that may silence some very big players in this game and you can bet they will be looking for any chance to pounce on the product because it is so good and because it will revolutionize the industry.

I'd rather wait and see it blowing the doors off the competition when it does arrive. We aren't talking about an HVX200 here. We are talking about a machine that will change the way the whole industry operates.

David

[Bachman]

No I dont care.....to a point! so long as, as Ralph says, "they get it right" but I dont want to wait till Greenland Melts. Only danger for them is if Sony and Panasonic drastically reduce the price of their Pro HD range. That may sway some people because every day they are not shooting with their own camera is money not going into their pockets.

We would consider buying something else in the mean time, but still wait for the RED

Id be happier if they could give us a firm delivery date so we can plan our budget shedule, and cash flow.

[Chris Kenny]

Given that we have no real idea of the scope of the delay, I wouldn't worry too much at this point. Particularly as delays in shipments of the first cameras don't necessarily translate into pushing back the entire production ramp-up. (In other words, just because 1-100 ship later, you can't necessarily assume 400-500 will ship later than they would have.)

[Jason Ing]

i know... to make all the red reservation holders happy... Red can throw in a red accessory grab bag... power, storage, viewfinders...

[Ken Corben]

Hmmmm.. I dunno.... Not only is there no longer a shipping date, there's not even a delivery date on the schedule which tells us when they might ship!

The cameras will ship when they are ready. One should worry if they schdeduled a shoot based on estimated ship dates. The rest of us can rest assured that the camera will ship long before any comparabale option in our lifetime.

Imagine a superior option that costs less than a 6 week rental of systems currently available today. Hmmm, worry? Not if RED and Jim are where I am placing my faith as a producer.

Faith can move mountains, but don't be surprised if God hands you a shovel.

[Jannard]

...Particularly as delays in shipments of the first cameras don't necessarily translate into pushing back the entire production ramp-up. (In other words, just because 1-100 ship later, you can't necessarily assume 400-500 will ship later than they would have.)

There is a lot of wisdom in this post. Once we get everything right, we can ramp up production from there. Beginning production is what is most likely to be delayed. Just can't say how long today. I have said all along that what we are attempting to do is a very difficult trick. One thing, out of thousands, that we hadn't counted on is delays from suppliers. It appears that the electronics game is a bit different than I am used to seeing. That, coupled with our desire to improve as much as we can on the image front before shipping, is what accounts for the delay.

Jim

[Andrew Benz]

i know... to make all the red reservation holders happy... Red can throw in a red accessory grab bag... power, storage, viewfinders...

:tongue: ... or they could continue down the path of selling me a $125,000 camera body for $17,500 :wink: . Now , if I can figure out a great s16mm zoom lens to use for SEC and NFL football that is semi-affordable...:greedy: Jim?:whistling: lol--

[Bachman]

Wisdom...? LOL If I had wisdom I would have stuck to being a Mechanic

I guess the other thing here is that this is a very odd situation, Jim is not doing this for the money (Im assuming here) so that changes alot of the driving factors behind this project. He wants to get this right. He probably dosnt really care if some people cant wait for this camera. I cant think of a similiar situation in modern industrial history apart from maybe some custom car companies. Its really a custom camera. I think it's fantastic

[Jared VanLeuven]

After NAB and the amount of orders that have been pouring in since then, I'm sure that Jim and RED Team aren't going to lose any sleep if a reservation holder decides that the wait is not worth it. Don't get me wrong, Jim's been fiercely loyal to the early adopter "faithful", but this is his baby. Cutting out early would only mean that the bitter tears spilled would be yours.:waaa:

And I hate to see grown men cry. :)

[Scott Webster]

I guess the other thing here is that this is a very odd situation, Jim is not doing this for the money (Im assuming here)

3000 X $17500 = $52,500,000
boy that's one hell of a happy bonus to building the camera you've always wanted!
(and I'm guessing the 3000 is on the conservative side)

[Bachman]

52mil but thats not all profit, hes probably spent that already. But hey, looks good on the balance sheet, wish ours looked like that

[Scott Webster]

True the $$$ aren't the driving force for Jim. Feedback from the 'Crossing the Line' crew was the passion Jim had for the camera and his openness to feedback on how to make it better.

Which I guess is what he is doing right now.

[Bachman]

This brings me to another question...time for a new thread me thinks

[Greg Voevodsky]

Sorry Guys, but I'd think Jim might take a trick from Apple's book... and not announce such a time line. And if you do, Jim, pad it by several months from now on. If you deliver 3 months early.... everyone happy... if your late a few months... most everyone happy.

But the newbies to business... @#$ happens... and it is better to do it right than wrong... Everything subject to change should include time lines by plus or minus a few to several months...

Filmmakers planning to shoot should have back up plans and or be very very flexible. I do not want to see some of this forum go negative if the camera is delayed or if problems are discovered and things delayed. I know of very few complicated or "impossible" things (Space Shuttle, ps3 or RED ) that was ever completed on an artificial and unrealistic timeline... it's done when it is done and it works.

I'm still assuming my own timeline, and at 217, I'd be happy with a September or if things need to be done right November timeline...

Look at Sony, they didn't expect manufacturing problems with blu-ray and ps-3, the same thing can happen here, no matter how smart Jim and the RED team are... the world's manufactures will do what they do to overcome their own problems.

[Clint Johnson]

Jim has been great about trying to give us estimates on R&D milestones and target ship dates... and always with the caveat that there are the thousand and one things that could change all of that.

I've taken the man at his word and built some delays into my expectations so there are no worries whatsoever on my part.

[Jason Ing]

Let the naysayers nay. And the impatient buy. But Red will come, and the naysayers will go, and the impatient will buy... again... this time Red.

I've got an xbox 360 by the way. But I know that once the programmers start fully utilizing what's under the PS3 hood... look out... wow... I'm buying a PS3. Quality will win out everytime. But at 400 to 600 a crack, no problem buying both. But at 17,500.... I'm waiting. And will be glad I did.

I'm preaching to the choir, but Jim's doing a fantastic job... the very short development time so far and then getting this kind of quality camera out... even if it is late this year, it still is... INCREDIBLE.

[Michael Mann]

Take as much time as you need. I can wait.

[Roberto B]

following my last posts.. i know you all read it.. :)

we already have a Michael Mann.. just an example, mike! a fine one.. be cool :meh:

[Jesse Wendel]

This is my first post -- I think -- on this new board. Made a few on the old one. Been content up till now to just keep my mouth shut and learn and listen. As someone whom doesn't know anything about the technical side of cameras, it's been best to just I've thought for me to just be quiet and learn as much as I could. It's like a college education around here, much of the time, at least the way I see it.

But with this delay, and a few people complaining, thought it was time to say at least this much.

Thank you for the delay. Please, delay. Delay as long as it takes, and feel free to stay delayed.

Without going into personal details, it's taking everything I've got to raise the funds for this. Delay is good. Delay is my friend. Delay away. *smiles*

I know a revolution when I see one. I've got a film I'm determined to make. There's absolutely no way I could do it with regular 35 mm film -- way too much film too shoot, hundreds and hundreds of hours of interviews to shoot, and I have to much of a learning curve. But with this, with Red I'm going to have the real deal, something I believe will be better than film. I can practice as much as I need, then erase or archive my practice sessions as I see fit, limited only by digital storage. And then go shoot some more. And it's all within financial reach -- barely -- of someone already with a regular job like myself.

So please, delay as long as you need to. I'm still 7k short up here in Seattle.

[Keith Alan Morris]

I'll swap mine for yours, Jesse. Give me a ringy-dingy. :)

[Martin Jäger]

i appreciate any improvement on the cam and i really don't care how much delay there will be - and i also have to raise money - so delay is also my good friend!

no stress RED team.

martin

[Mike the beginner]

Patience is a virtue and because it is RED =You are worth it

Mike the beginner

[Emanuel A.]

I honestly don't care how long they take to get it "right."


No I dont care.....to a point! so long as, as Ralph says, "they get it right" but I dont want to wait till Greenland Melts. Only danger for them is if Sony and Panasonic drastically reduce the price of their Pro HD range. That may sway some people because every day they are not shooting with their own camera is money not going into their pockets.

We would consider buying something else in the mean time, but still wait for the RED

Id be happier if they could give us a firm delivery date so we can plan our budget shedule, and cash flow.

Taken both sides as reasonable points, I'd just add that both sides should be thought. 'cause this project shall be a success only if there's a huge sales success.

That's why the hype must go on. No matter at what price.

For sure without any commitment on the customer's satisfaction or expectation(s).

[portanova]

I'll just sit back on the beach with a pair of Oakley's, waiting for them to call my number!

:)

[RobRoySyd]

Having worked in engineering for a few decades my old mantra hasn't changed.
The client soon forgets if it was late, they'll even forgive the cost overruns but they'll always remember if it didn't work right out of the box.

On top of that the RED team only stated their goals and targets. All they promised was to give it their very best shot. It irks me to think anyone would hold them accountable for things they never said. From memory RED has always made it clear that no one should plan a project around estimated shipping dates, much less treat a camera like their careers depended on it.

Someone made mention of what 3,000 x $17,500 equals. I'd put a different spin on that. I'd hazard a guess that 50% of that will be spent on materials. Consider what it's like to have $20M worth of materials sitting in your inventory waiting for a 5 cent part to get made. If anyone should be worried it isn't the RED users, it's RED who'll likely have way more at stake than them.

[Jay A. Kelley]

One thing, out of thousands, that we hadn't counted on is delays from suppliers. It appears that the electronics game is a bit different than I am used to seeing. That, coupled with our desire to improve as much as we can on the image front before shipping, is what accounts for the delay.

Jim


Hey Jim,

This was a massively honest post.. And it makes me feel a lot better.. I'll just hang out until your ready.

Jay

[OwenR]

We want to shoot Red in October....this is the date.....

Delivary date inevertably get delayed look no further than apple or other computer suppliers

I think the Red dates have allways been put as tentative....

Is it not possible for someone to deliver on time and fully working....??

Were seriousaly red! looking forward to red realities!

[bbb]

There is a lot of wisdom in this post. Once we get everything right, we can ramp up production from there. Beginning production is what is most likely to be delayed. Just can't say how long today. I have said all along that what we are attempting to do is a very difficult trick. One thing, out of thousands, that we hadn't counted on is delays from suppliers. It appears that the electronics game is a bit different than I am used to seeing. That, coupled with our desire to improve as much as we can on the image front before shipping, is what accounts for the delay.

Jim

Competition is not going to sit down and wait,the game has started and it is
not going to be a fair one.

My first post here is not a positive one,but I support this team with all my heart....keep them coming.

P.J picked a good theme for the short...that is how it is going to look
in this battle arena...But we (Jim) have a plane and everything....Beware...-)

Thank you Jim and the crew, for the better future you are creating.

Kind regards

[Zakaree Sandberg]

take all the time in the world.. well not really.. but take your time.. it gives me more time to save up and thus take a lesser loan

[Emanuel A.]

Competition is not going to sit down and wait,the game has started and it is
not going to be a fair one.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1944&page=24

:nuke:

[Floris Liesker]

One thing, out of thousands, that we hadn't counted on is delays from suppliers. It appears that the electronics game is a bit different than I am used to seeing. Jim

I suddenly get this conspiracy-fear that some big japanese company is behind this delay in electronics delivery to prevent this camera from ever hitting the market...

[Steve Gibby]

I started posting online about RED 17 months ago, and I reserved my first RED One (#8) as early as possible, as in the first day reservations were available, thus you'd go a long way to find someone who's been waiting for their RED One camera longer than me. Keeping that in mind, here's my feelings on the announced delay in shipping the first batch of cameras:

"A stitch in time saves nine!" and "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!"

I definitely appreciate RED's attention to detail and committment to get the cameras right before shipping them. I support that 100% and feel it is a smart decision on many levels.

Take the time you need RED. It is appreciated by the reservation holder of #8 and #700, and I suspect it's also appreciated by most of the other reservation holders.

[roryhinds]

Does anyone know when we will find out what sort of delay it will be?

[gurney]

I actually hope the main reason ISN'T supplier delays, but rather plain old dissatisfaction with current image quality. Why? Because this reaffirms the team's commitment to that quality, even to the extent of weathering criticism and "I told you so" from naysayers. To announce another delay, mainly on the subjective basis of current image quality, would (or does) simply give Red more credibility.

[Jannard]

It appears that the electronics game is a bit different than I am used to seeing. That, coupled with our desire to improve as much as we can on the image front before shipping, is what accounts for the delay.

Jim

As I mentioned... it is both. And don't get too carried away with conspiracy theories. No sabatoge here. Just electronics companies that promise more than they can deliver (timeline).

Jim

[Paolo Tinari]

I knew CROSSING THE LINE was shot on film....

[Don Woods]

We are behind you Jim these are things that we thought and knew could happen. You have been very up front. And everyone has know from the start and should expect this to happen. We are talking about full R&D to production in less then two years. That is amazing. Take the time you need.

[Corrado Silveri]

Take the time you need.

Without hurry.

Do the best.

(maybe before the end of 2007 ?)

[jbeale]

As I mentioned... it is both. And don't get too carried away with conspiracy theories. No sabatoge here. Just electronics companies that promise more than they can deliver (timeline).
A few years ago, an electronic design I was involved with was delayed because we couldn't get tantalum capacitors, a fairly common component. Turns out that the element tantalum is mined in just a few places, and a worldwide surge in cell-phone use (among other things) basically used up all the supply. Distributors favored their larger customers, and smaller outfits like ours were frozen out of the market. But after a while the shortage eased, also replacement parts with alternative materials eventually became available.

More commonly, sole-source parts like specific chips (FPGAs etc.) become backordered with long lead times due to market fluctuations, yield issues, etc. It's all part of the electronics development game. The better suppliers will give you a market forecast on your parts list, but it's always "subject to change" as the saying goes.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

My guess in how it "went down" was something like this:

RED gets a call that a key component is going to be delayed XXX time. Jim looks around and goes... if we're already waiting, part XYZ that'll make it better would be ready around that time, let's go back and talk to those people again and bump up our schedule with them and do this all at once.

Everyone nods.

REDuser: "... we're going to be a weeee bit late."

[Steve Sherrick]

Jim,

No doubt that these kinds of delays can happen during the production/manufacturing process, and I appreciate the dilmemma you are up against. I certainly want to get the best camera possible when it does deliver.

Having said that, on the point of striving for perfection with the image quality, at some point there is the danger that other companies will catch up. I would love to see you guys ride the wave of momentum you have right now, especially after NAB. Like many others, that momentum is currently helping me secure projects, as the word is out about the camera and people are anxious to implement it on their projects. If it comes down to parts not available, I suppose there's not much that can be done. If it comes down to eeking out every last ounce of picture quality, I think at some point Red One's development needs to end and Red Two can pick up where Red One left off.

The biggest disaster for Red would be no Red Ones by NAB '08. I truly don't believe that will happen, but I got the sense taking to some people at NAB that there's still some skepticism about Red delivering cameras.

I'm a big fan of what you guys are doing, so this is certainly not meant as a rant, just a very small concern that the momentum could be affected. But I was blown away by what you showed at NAB, and perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised by the delivery dates when they are announced. Consider this a friendly push towards the finish line.

Steve

[Rodrigo Lizana]

One thing, out of thousands, that we hadn't counted on is delays from suppliers.


I remember Jeff Kraines saying years ago the same about the Kinetta delay. Hope you´re not talking about the same supplier...

[Tom Lowe]

Patience, grasshoppers.

[Gunleik Groven]

I dunno if any of you guys remember "Not the 9 o'clock news", but there's a a spot where Rowan Atkinsons sits as a parisher, looking uncomfortable for something like 3 minutes, licking his lips, looking away from the camera, seeming uncomfortable and basically doing nothing, before he opens the Bible and reads out:
"Have patience says the Lord".
Cut to scetch about Mrs Thatchers homemeade sex-toys, or whatever -:)

Not that that's of any relevance whatsoever...

Gunleik

[Steve Sherrick]

I'm probably the most patient person alive. :calm:

I'm by no means disappointed yet. My only concern is if this were to be delayed to next year. I think that would be a big blow to Red, and possibly to some who had hoped to be using it by end of 2007.

But until we hear of such a delay, I'm not too worried about it. Still lots of good vibes!

Steve

[Gunleik Groven]

Patience?

I'm in limbo!

Only thing is that I'm usually in limbo...

Cheers!

Gunleik

[Rocco Schult]

..And don't get too carried away with conspiracy theories. No sabatoge here..

thanks for the posts Jim.
of course its disappointing, everybodies waiting and doesn't really want to (come on guys, please be honest) - But we know its a lot of stuff :weight_lift: to do. Good luck with the remaining hassles. Gives time to get the rest sorted out like matteboxes and followfocuses...:whistling:

[Keith Nealy]

We knew RED would be facing a lot of critcism and now after NAB, Jim really has to produce more than a prototype that is exceptional. If he sees a chance to eek out a little more quality on the first run, I support that as a sound business decision. We are all dependant on the reputation this camera system receives in the field. If the industry - for its own survival- brands the camera more hype than quality than it will be tougher for all of us.

This is one of those times we have to honor the decision of the team leader and trust that he is making a wise decision, even though it is costing us all delays. It may not be a popular decision - but I think it's the right one.

Take your time Jim - you only get one shot at this.

aloha,

Keith

[Shawn Nelson]

I definitely want them to take as much time as they need. As part of the first batch, I don't mind not being software feature complete (as previously announced), but I sure don't want to have to mail the camera back in for hardware upgrades, eh, too many times that is.

[Jannard]

We don't want to get camera bodies back at RED for upgrades any more than you do. The only reason we should see a camera is if it has major problems (God forbid) and sensor upgrades (once every two years?).

All upgrades we want our customers to do should be software or firmware updates. Just like an SLR. Download, copy to flash card and upload to camera.

Jim

[Emanuel A.]

We don't want to get camera bodies back at RED for upgrades any more than you do. The only reason we should see a camera is if it has major problems (God forbid) and sensor upgrades (once every two years?).

All upgrades we want our customers to do should be software or firmware updates. Just like an SLR. Download, copy to flash card and upload to camera.

JimGlad to know.

« (...) sensor upgrades (once every two years?) (...) » -- this will be truly revolutionary, Monsieur Lumière.

[Robert Sanders]

Man, I'm biting my nails. I have a production scheduled to start August 1st and was breathlessly awaiting my camera rental houses' two REDs to arrive in July (mid 200's).

Now I'm a bit panic'd. GOD I'd hate to shoot this feature on our XLH1.

We always knew there was a chance we'd be in this pickle. I guess that's what happens when you let the excitement get carried away...4K, 35 dof, high-end glass and a kickass workflow...see, it happened again! ;)

[Emanuel A.]

Robert, is the twenty-third letter?

[Gordon Prince]

Robert, is the twenty-third letter?

I thought it'd always be shot with a XLH1...

[Joe Aurili]

Jim, just curious, how will sensor upgrades work? Are we talking about a higher resolution? If so, then won't the board(s) need to be changed also to support the processing power needed to move the larger data stream?


We don't want to get camera bodies back at RED for upgrades any more than you do. The only reason we should see a camera is if it has major problems (God forbid) and sensor upgrades (once every two years?).

All upgrades we want our customers to do should be software or firmware updates. Just like an SLR. Download, copy to flash card and upload to camera.

Jim

[Rob Lohman]

Obviously we don't know yet jlaurili :) But if anything else needs upgrading then that will happen as well, of course.

[Joe Aurili]

Thanks Rob. I was just wondering, because if the insides have to change to a large degree then the user might as well pay a little more and get an entire second body, and still use the other camera :)
If just the sensor changes, then i'm sure it would be much more inexpensive just to switch the part. I can see this happening if the sensor is still 4K, but improves in quality or features.

[Bruce Allen]

This is pure conjecture but I'd say it sounds like the compression chips are some sort of field programmable gate array system - which means you can get clever and optimize things with firmware updates - but for a big processing power leap you'd want to upgrade the chips (eg if you're trying to compress 120fps 4K or somethin' crazy like that). On the other hand, if the sensor upgrade is more about lowering noise levels and increasing dynamic range, then you could use the current chips.

Knowing Red, they'll probably just improve everything ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Robert Sanders]

Robert, is the twenty-third letter?

No. It's a new feature film project of ours called THE BLACKOUT. It takes place during a city-wide power blackout and the residents of a building in downtown are trapped and can't get out. And they're not alone.

One of the reasons we were hoping to use the RED camera was because of its excellent low-noise floor and dynamic range. Shooting a movie without practical lights is very challenging.

And, quite honestly, I really don't like the noise characteristics of the F900 or Viper, let alone the XLH1.

So we've still got our fingers double crossed.

[Robert Sanders]

I thought it'd always be shot with a XLH1...

We shot our pitch-reel with the XLH1. And we got pretty good results with it. It's definitely a nice little unit. But we're using it now as our behind-the-scene and EPK camera. We want all of our supplemental materials to be high-def for future blu-ray or HD-DVD releases.

The Twenty-Third Letter will probably not go into production until late 2008.

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I also would rather see it be the best possible product, so I can't be impatient. But I have to admit I would kill to have a perfect RED One in my hands right now... it would be amazing.

To be honest I don't have the skills as a filmmaker yet to NEED the RED One, so if I had it today it'd be a fun toy but my skills don't come close to matching the technical sophistication of the camera. I can use my XL-2, which has like 15 times worse quality or whatever, and it's still ok because I'm learning. But this project we shot last weekend turned out so much better than I thought it would (using the XH-A1 that my friend owns), I mean the story was so nice, the editing looks great, it all came together so well, and to see the footage and realize that the camera quality did hurt the final product makes me sad. I'm not saying it's bad quality, because it actually looks really good, but getting every shot to look great with that level of camera is extremely difficult. If you screw up when you shoot on a super high def camera, it doesn't matter nearly as much. Like if there is too much shaking on one shot, and you reduce that with After Effects and lose a bit of quality, it makes a difference on MiniDV and makes no difference at all on 4K -- you have so much quality that it just doesn't matter if you have to cut it down a bit. That is a beautiful thing.

I think 4-5 months from now, maybe (hopefully) even sooner, we'll be at the point (me and the group I work with) where the technology is limiting our quality and that's not something I want to see. So I'm not sure what to do about that. We can rent cameras from the school for free, theoretically, but in actual reality I hate renting anything from the school. Their F900s, and they only have two I think available for check-out, are always going to be used by thesis film shoots, so you can't just check them out on the weekend or something for your own personal projects. In fact you are supposed to check out cameras for school projects, and we are already thinking well ahead of that level. I just hate relying on the school for anything, and I know that any cameras they have above the XL-2s are going to be hard to check out, and I already own an XL-2 anyway so I don't care about that.

I just can't wait to have a RED.

[Rob Lohman]

Thanks Rob. I was just wondering, because if the insides have to change to a large degree then the user might as well pay a little more and get an entire second body, and still use the other camera :)

Depending on the upgrade I can definitely see people doing that as well.

But let's first finish this one, okay? :)

[Joe Aurili]

OK, it's a deal! ;)


Depending on the upgrade I can definitely see people doing that as well.

But let's first finish this one, okay? :)