Raw, Redcode Raw, Redcode RGB?

[Brandon Fraley]

(Feel free to direct me to an existing thread)

Can someone briefly describe the difference? Image quality, datarates, workflow, pros/cons...

THANKS!

[Chris Kenny]

RAW: Uncompressed, un-demosaiced Bayer sensor data. Over 300 MB/s at 24 frames/sec. Can only shoot to external RAID, at up to 60 fps for 4.5K or 4K, and 120 fps for 2K. Highest quality.

REDCODE RAW: Un-demosaiced Bayer sensor data with about 12:1 wavelet-based compression applied. Can shoot up to 30 fps at 4K or 60 fps at 2K to on-board storage. Data rate around 25-30 MB/s (variable bit rate, exact number not yet determined).

Both compressed and uncompressed RAW formats offer the same flexibility that RAW formats on DSLR photo cameras offer. They capture unprocessed sensor data, so many choices you'd otherwise have to make when shooting (like white balance) can be delayed until footage is downloaded with no quality hit.

REDCODE RGB: De-mosaiced RGB data. Can shoot up to 1080p at 60 fps on camera, either scaling from a 4K or 2K area of the sensor, or up to 120 fps on camera at 720p, scaling from a 2K area. Data rates unknown, but RGB data is harder to compress than Bayer sensor data.

I believe all formats capture 12-bit linear data.

[Jannard]

Don't use REDCODE RGB... it will be the last thing we enable (it sucks). Shoot REDCODE RAW (it ROCKS).

BTW, REDCODE RAW is native in FCP 6.

Jim

[Roberto B]

REDCODE RAW is native in FCP 6.

pc side solution, pleeeeeeeease!!

[IAN SUN]

pc side solution, pleeeeeeeease!!

Just get a MAC already :bleh:

[IAN SUN]

Just kidding...I have a pc sitting on the floor too.

then again, it's gone unused since I got my PPC MAC.

[Roberto B]

i'm a poor filmmaker.. only pc.. i can't afford another personal computer.. all my money goes to a part of a red reservation that i already gave with other people here.. i have a sort of number of weeks per year.. there's who make sacrifices in order to go with red.. red team must to know how we take off our shirts (i said shirt not skirt.. lol) just to shoot red next months.. not all here have money just to buy a full unit for themselves..

my personal pc will be my edit machine.. no money for more..

edit
one day when a poor red filmmaker + a pc will win an academy award.. jim jannard will have his reward for to have a belief in us.. the red filmmakers who first believed in red.. (first i said.. since the first hour.. dvxuser young people.. and i'm proud of my origin from there)

[Rob Lohman]

The QuickTime codec works find under Windows. Just load the footage into whatever you want. Don't worry, we want people to use our camera's!

[Karl H]

Don't use REDCODE RGB... it will be the last thing we enable (it sucks). Shoot REDCODE RAW (it ROCKS).

BTW, REDCODE RAW is native in FCP 6.

Jim

Im gussing from this Jim, that also means variable frame rates like 120fps will also be one of the last things you implement as thats linked with redcode RGB compression?

[Jim Arthurs]

The QuickTime codec works find under Windows. Just load the footage into whatever you want. Don't worry, we want people to use our camera's!

Hi Rob...here's the deal...most of the time when developers say that "It works fine under QT on Windows" it means sluggish frame rates of one or two FPS in your NLE or comp app compared to the way it works on the Mac.

Are you suggesting that your 1K scaled REDCODE RAW extraction might actually play at speed on a fast PC without some hardware assist card from AJA/Blackmagic?

I'm a very solid PC guy who has gotten into Intel Macs because it's obvious which way the wind is blowing with your development. Even so, I'd still like to see PC development go hand-in-hand with Mac development in terms of features and performance...

[Rob Lohman]

Jim: I'm a solid PC guy too (over 15 years, just started using Mac's a year ago).

The code is identical on both platform except for some small areas. So performance will be similar (there will always be differences because the Operating Systems themselves are very different).

Working with 4K data will require a beefy machine, but that's true on both sides. All the work we do (with the exception of certain integrations, obviously) is available on both platforms. That includes REDCINE & the QuickTime codec with all the optimizations and multi processor support.

[redhead]

BTW, REDCODE RAW is native in FCP 6.
Is the REDCODE RAW file format described anywhere, so independent programmers can process it in their software?

[Bachman]

REDCODE RAW is native in FCP 6.

Ive asked this question before with no clear answer, but will FCP6 have REDCODE RAW support when we get it this month, OR on or before the first production RED, which is penciled for July?(though we know these are delayed) But even so, Apple will need to release a code support upgrade in advance.

[Cail Young]

FCP6 will not ship with REDCODE RAW support. That comes later. When, exactly, I assume is a function of when the software's stable enough.

[Rob Lohman]

Guys guys, it's really simple.

1) we have a QT codec available when camera's ships, this will load into FCP 5.x & 6 or basically any supporting QT application

2) a next version of FCP will have some integrated REDCODE support so we are real-time enabled and such (there are some other benefits). We have not announced yet when this will be. Obviously we want it out there as soon as possible.

When Jim says REDCODE RAW is native in FCP 6 he means that we will get extra support for our codec as explained under #2 above.

You DO NOT NEED the NEW FCP 6 version with special support to start cutting with our REDCODE RAW codec! Peter Jackson's team cut Crossing the Line on FCP 5 with our REDCODE RAW QuickTime component!

[Rob Lohman]

Is the REDCODE RAW file format described anywhere, so independent programmers can process it in their software?

Not at this point in time. If your software supports QuickTime then it will just work (assuming your software supports the correct pixel types).

If it doesn't and it is a well known / often used program we can look into adding support.

[Priyesh P.]

but what about the plugin (redfx or somethin ) that reproduces most/all of the funcionality of redcine in fcp - is something planned for premiere, too ?

[Rob Lohman]

We continually look at where we want to take the software next. For now if you want that flexibility you have to go through REDCINE. I know how important Premiere is and I'm not forgetting about it. We can't do everything at the same time, although we certainly try ;) The good thing is that we're building a platform that should allow us to easily add support to other products in the near future.

[Priyesh P.]

We continually look at where we want to take the software next. For now if you want that flexibility you have to go through REDCINE. I know how important Premiere is and I'm not forgetting about it. We can't do everything at the same time, although we certainly try ;) The good thing is that we're building a platform that should allow us to easily add support to other products in the near future.

Yes, but it would be more than terrific if you could achieve with adobe what has been announced with apple...