Questions for Avid MC workflow

[David Morgan]

Ok...just finished my first shoot this weekend with mt Red, and now I'm trying to get my footage and audio into my MC for editing. This is what I've done so far:

Rendered out footage using Redcine
1: rendered out a single xml and qt wrapped DNxHD for all the footage
2: rendered out individual xml and qt wrapped DNxHD for each shot

I've created an ALE using Metacheater, bringing in each of the individual QT. I've imported the ALE and individual QT. Now I've got a few questions, cause I'm stuck.

1: I can't get the XTrans program to make an ALE at all. I bring in the XML file for the full render, but I have no idea where the REDCINE_ALE.xsl file comes from. Please help with that.

2: When Using Metacheater to create an ALE, do I need to have all the QT in the same folder? For me to make the ALE, I had to make a single folder with all the QT in them to bring them into Metacheater. Is there a better way to do this?

3: Audio? I may not even be in a place to try to get this in. We recorded directly to the Red, so I need some help figuring out the audio there.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get further into this.

Thanks

I should add that I'm on PC.

[Bruce Allen]

I've created an ALE using Metacheater, bringing in each of the individual QT. I've imported the ALE and individual QT. Now I've got a few questions, cause I'm stuck.

1: I can't get the XTrans program to make an ALE at all. I bring in the XML file for the full render, but I have no idea where the REDCINE_ALE.xsl file comes from. Please help with that.

Check www.avid.com/red for this.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[David Morgan]

[QUOTE=Bruce Allen;334236]Check www.avid.com/red for this.

I've been on that page for two days now, and I'm just not seeing it. I'm really new to MC so maybe I'm just not understanding what I'm looking at.:help:

[MichaelP]

Well PC solutions right now are a bit limited especially when it comes to audio. None of the tools right now deal with that - even the RED ones. I have been looking for some tools to strip audio from the QT refs made by the camera - but the one that a user found on this site does not preserve the timecode. Once REDline and the R3D QT components are available for the windows platform, these issues will go away.

For picture - it is best for all process to keep your QTs in the same folder that represents the ALE - It makes the import/merge process easier later. We hope to have some of the PC tools available soon that will streamline a lot of this - although audio is stull undefined in those tools as well.

Michael

[David Morgan]

So it sounds like, at this point, I need to record my audio seperatly, and sync with time code. I'm good with that.

Also, I'm still fussy on the whole merge part of the work flow. I brought the ALE file into Mc, and then the QT (Having generated them from Metacheater and Redcine respectively) but I don't know where the merge control is, or (in light of the information about audio) this actually accomplishes at this point. I'm very confused.

[MichaelP]

That is in the step by step guide

1. Import ALE
2. Select ALL
3. Batch import from clip menu
4. Select ALL in window
5. Select first QT in source folder
6. Import


Michael

[Dylan Reeve]

I used Compressor on the Mac to strip the Audio from the QT. Then we imported and sync'd manually (as you'd have to do with externally recorded audio).

I later thought of two things - one was the idea of using a second Batch Import to link the audio to the stripped audio files. I guess that would require the audio to be in a Quicktime file with the same filename the video had? But I'm not sure if it would even work.

The other was using the clip ALE and simply changing it to be Audio track only, then using that to create audio clips (same process as video, import ALE, batch import against files). Then you'd have the timecode and syncing would be automatic.

I haven't tested either option really.

[David Morgan]

Ok, when I go to import the ALe file, I get the following error in a pop up:
An Error Occured on event 1. Exception: SM_DF_NDFMISMATCH
I'm given the options of "OK", "Quite" and "Abort"

If I use OK, I get the same error for each event.

Help?

[Bruce Allen]

Sounds like a drop frame non drop frame mismatch to me.

What are your project settings?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.ocm

[David Morgan]

Bruce, I'm sending you a pm.

[MichaelP]

How did you make the ALE?

Michael

[David Morgan]

I made the ALE from the QT from Redcine in Metacheater. I figured out, with Bruce's help, the part I was missing from the Xtrans process, and I now have video in my MC. *Cheer*

Now, I just need to get audio there to go with it.

[Bruce Allen]

EDIT: David beat me to it, haha...

OK cool, PM'ed David where to get the RedCine XLST and he PM'ed me back saying he has the ALEs working now.

He asked me what was the preferred way to input sound though - for RedRushes you just import the Quicktime, right?

What's the trick with RedCine? I'm guessing audio output is just around the corner for them (since they can play audio now), but until they do that, what do you do? Import the audio from the Quicktime proxy files and somehow do batch linking magic to connect it to the RedCine video files?

Maybe there's some way to do this with Sorenson or Compressor? EG get them to add the audio tracks from the proxy files to the DNxHD quicktimes produced by REDCINE?

Ah well, that audio part looked confusing as hell (doubly-so on a PC due to RED not porting their Quicktime R3D player to Windows yet) and I didn't trust RED audio quality to begin with so always shoot dual system with a 702T.

Hopefully Redcine will output audio soon and end this madness ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Jason Diamond]

if you have a clip that has no audio and you have tracks logged as V1-A1,A2(3 or 4 depending) and batch import the audio with the same filename as the video into it, it will shoehorn the audio into the video and merge it. i tried it way back when and that was when i discovered the 32bit/24bit issue AVID/RED eventually resolved.

[David Morgan]

Jason, should I just use the original r3d files for the audio, or is there a different file I should be looking for?

[Bruce Allen]

if you have a clip that has no audio and you have tracks logged as V1-A1,A2(3 or 4 depending) and batch import the audio with the same filename as the video into it, it will shoehorn the audio into the video and merge it. i tried it way back when and that was when i discovered the 32bit/24bit issue AVID/RED eventually resolved.

Thanks Jason!


Jason, should I just use the original r3d files for the audio, or is there a different file I should be looking for?

Use the Quicktime proxies, any resolution should do (these are references to the original .r3d files). If you don't have those, you can generate them again using RedRushes.

All of this is Mac only sadly. PC needs to be dual system until they get REDCINE working. On the other hand, since my editing computer only cost me $500, I could afford the 702T ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[francois]

Hello,
As I said a few days ago, I am starting the cutting of a feature shot on red version 16. I went in the Avid link for the workflow using RedRushes and I am facing a problem when doing the QT references using the wallpaper option. The QT with the _H.mov never appear in the folder. I follow every steps
1-Figure 1
2-Figure 2
3-Figure 3. At that stage no problems although on the redrush output do I select the DNxND codec or he pro res? I am working with Avid MC
4-Figure 4, do I create an output folder at the same location as the R3D folders or do I create a folder wherever I want?
5-Figure 5, I do as explained
6-Figure 6, I select the Make High/Half
7-Figure 7, I can make ALE with no problems and see it in my folder
8-Figure 8, I do not see the QT but only the ALE.

Where do I go wrong? Thanks for the help.

[MichaelP]

1. Make a new folder for your outputs. Name it in whatever convention you are using for organizational purposes.
2. Using the latest version of REDrushes, open source R3D files.
3. Select output folder
4. Select burn-in or not
5. Select full, half, quarter, etc (Half works fine)
5. Select DNxHD codec of choice - for example DNxHD 36 for offline
7. Start transcode.
8. Export ALE

The Step by Step guide does not reflect the latest REDrushes but will be posted soon.

Michael

[francois]

Just a question, when I do the wrappers can I use them with the ale in MC and do a relink or do I have to transcode as well the media to import them into the MC? As you know when using the ale in a more conventional way using tapes made from the telecine after digitizing we get all the infos embeded in the VITC. If I do an import with the RED material I got the TC generated by the AVID. Can you explain more in details the import procedure or relink procedure using the ALE? Thanks. Thats very important fr the finalrelease which is going to be conformed forthe 35 mm output.

[Dexter Gregoire]

Hi MichaelP,

Any chance when the Step by Step guide gets updated it will also include how to relink Audio(Timecode) that was recorded separately?

[David Morgan]

Hi MichaelP,

Any chance when the Step by Step guide gets updated it will also include how to relink Audio(Timecode) that was recorded separately?

I asked the same question from my dealer and he pointed me to the Auto Sync feature in MC.

When you record footage that includes both audio and video, the system automatically establishes sync when it creates clips in the bin.Autosyncing applies to audio and video clips that have been recorded separately, usually from two separate sources. Autosyncing creates a new subclip that displays sync breaks in the Timeline as though the audio and video were recorded simultaneously.

Autosyncing is often used for film projects in which picture and sound are captured separately. These clips are often synced based on common film timecode or sound timecode. You can also autosync any audio and video clips based on an artificial IN point or OUT point relationship you establish with marks. Use the following guidelines when autosyncing:

· You can autosync audio clips with video clips only.

· You can create only one autosynced subclip at a time.

· You cannot autosync numerous pairs of audio and video clips simultaneously.

· If the audio and video clips do not have matching source, you must establish common sync frames.

To do this, mark IN points (or OUT points) on both clips before autosyncing. If you are autosyncing clips of different lengths, the longer clip is truncated to the length of the shorter clip. If you autosync according to common timecodes that are staggered (one clip starts later than the other), the later starting timecode becomes the start of the new subclip. The clip with the earlier starting timecode is trimmed accordingly.

Creating an Autosynced Subclip To create an autosynced subclip:

1. Highlight the two clips in the bin, and then choose AutoSync from the Bin menu. The Sync Selection dialog box appears.

1. Select an option, based on the following:
- Inpoints if you are syncing according to IN points set in both clips.
- Outpoints if you are syncing according to OUT points set in both clips.
- Source Timecode if the two clips have matching timecode.

2. Click OK. The subclip is created and named by default after the video clip with the extension .sync.n, where n is the incremental number of subclips created with the same name.

[MichaelP]

You can AutoSync a bin full of clips at the same time as long as there is common metadata to associate them.

Michael

[David Morgan]

You can AutoSync a bin full of clips at the same time as long as there is common metadata to associate them.

Michael

Still wrapping my head around this Micheal, so sorry if this is an redundant question. Common Metadata here would refer to what? TC, Edgecode, or something else?

[MichaelP]

Whatever timecode is considered common. Most likely the time of day of audio device and camera are jam synced when shooting. In that case, select ALL, AutoSync based on START timecode and you will get new subclips that are VA.

Michael

[Rick Menze]

How did you make the ALE?

Michael

I have tried to make the ALE.. no luck. Here is what I do.

Open clips in Redcine. Make adjustments, save project as .XML

Take XML to TestXSLT and add in the REDCINE_ALE.xsl ( downloaded today from Avid.com/red )

Click process and then save as ALE.

Bring it to the AVID and drag it into a bin. Nothing happens. Sooo I then made an ALE out of Redrushes... it works fine. So I compared the two using Textedit... and the ALE from the TestXSLT has MUCH less information in it. I have also tried the PC Xtrans process and the same thing happens.

[MichaelP]

What version of REDCINE are you using? And yes, there will be a lot less metadata in the XML from REDCINE as it does not pass everything in the R3D file as does REDrushes.

Michael

[Rick Menze]

I am using 3.18 of RedCine. Here is what the ALE contains from RedCine XML to ALE...

"Heading
FIELD_DELIM TABS
VIDEO_FORMAT 1080
AUDIO_FORMAT 48khz
FPS 24.000
Column
Name Camera Reel Clip Camroll Shoot Date SeqOrder Source UNC Path User Tape Dur_Frames Start End Original_Start Original_End Aux TC1 DPX Resolution Handles Offset Scale
Data"

And here is what the ALE looks like from Redrushes..
"Heading
FIELD_DELIM TABS
VIDEO_FORMAT 1080
FILM_FORMAT 35mm, 4 perf
AUDIO_FORMAT 48khz
FPS 24.000

Column
Name Tape Camera Clip Start Original_Start End Original_End Auxiliary TC1 Tracks DPX Shoot Date Filename TimeStamp FrameWidth FrameHeight ColorSpace GammaSpace Kelvin Tint ISO Exposure Saturation Contrast Brightness GainRed GainGreen GainBlue Black X Black Y Toe X Toe Y Mid X Mid Y Knee X Knee Y White X White Y CamRoll UNC

Data
A001_C105_080610.mov A001 A 105 08:49:59:03 08:49:59:03 08:50:17:05 08:50:17:05 01:30:10:21 V A001_C105_080610-000000 20080610 A001_C105_080610 084958 4096 2048 13 1 5600.000000 0.000000 320 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 0.170000 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 0.00000 0.00000 0.25000 0.25000 0.50000 0.50000 0.75000 0.75000 1.00000 1.00000 A001_C105_080610 /Volumes/Honda 2010 Mtg /RED_TESTS/ALL_HERE/A001_C105_080610_001.R3D
A001_C104_080610.mov A001 A 104 08:49:45:13 08:49:45:13 08:49:47:08 08:49:47:08 01:30:09:02 V A001_C104_080610-000000 20080610 A001_C104_080610 084944 4096 2048 13 1 5600.000000 0.000000 320 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 0.170000 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 0.00000 0.00000 0.25000 0.25000 0.50000 0.50000 0.75000 0.75000 1.00000 1.00000 A001_C104_080610 /Volumes/Honda 2010 Mtg /RED_TESTS/ALL_HERE/A001_C104_080610_001.R3D
"

[MichaelP]

Yes, that is the issue with the new REDCINE that is fixed with the new XSL updates that will be posted very soon - hopefully by end of day of tomorrow.

Michael

[Domingo]

I am having the same problem here with my .ale. Any idea of when the new xsl file will be posted?

Any workaround?

I need to offline in Avid MC 3.0.5 MAC and send .xml to the facility that will conform and do the online.

thank

alex
Post-Moderne

[C_Skaff]

Hi Guys.
While your talking Avid stuff... Here is another Q:

Can I make DNxHD-compressed QT's in PAL-resolution...
make an ALE in Metacheat, with the Project set to PAL...
Open up a PAL project in Avid MC...
Import the ALE and batch relink to my .mov's...

And it would do a "fast import"?
Or do I need to set my Avid to 720/1080 to be able to do a fast import?
I'm not using any Red Apps to make the .mov's.
Probably use Episode Engine too speed up the trascode. So if I should use another QT-codec to be able to do a fast import in a PAL-project, let me know.

/carl

[MichaelP]

That should work. A fast import will be enabled if the application you are using can access and render to QT using the Avid QT codec as an output selection. For example, selecting Avid 14:1 PAL 25p.

Michael