Transferring R! ownership for Epic

[fightordie]

Can anyone explain REDs position on transferring ownership of a red one.
Specifically, if I have a low number red one and want to sell it to someone who wants an epic sooner rather than later how does the transfer of ownership happen without losing the low number red one/ epic spot.

I read on another board that if you sell your red and pay the associated fees the spot number gets reset and my low number red becomes useless.

Is this true?

[Stephen Williams]

Can anyone explain REDs position on transferring ownership of a red one.
Specifically, if I have a low number red one and want to sell it to someone who wants an epic sooner rather than later how does the transfer of ownership happen without losing the low number red one/ epic spot.

I read on another board that if you sell your red and pay the associated fees the spot number gets reset and my low number red becomes useless.

Is this true?

Hi,

Epics will be assigned by when your camera was delivered, not it's serial no. Red have not commented to my knowledge on that matter.

Stephen

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yes, EPIC priority should be assigned based on when a RED One camera has shipped, not by serial #. Same with accessory backorders, etc.. Most new stuff is now first come first served, now that there are 5000 cameras out there. But for existing back-orders, they are filled in order of when the RED shipped. This keeps someone with serial #1xx who didn't take delivery until last month from cutting in line ahead of someone with #11xx who paid and took delivery 6 months ago. However, RED has made no official statement as to how priority for EPIC and Scarlet will work. In the past, Jim has stated that RED One owners will "have priority" for Scarlet and EPIC, but that is as specific as he got and that was long before everything changed on 11/13.

As for ownership transfer, it can be transferred via RED. The camera must be sent to RED for certification. They give it a complete tune-up and certify the camera and officially transfer ownership. Service costs $500, IIRC. Warranty does not transfer to new owner (if any warranty remains), but I believe that the new owner can buy a 90 day warranty on the newly certified camera.

Jim has said that if you buy a RED One from someone and properly transfer ownership, you will be eligible for the EPIC trade-in. However, there has been no mention as to whether or not any priority is transferred as well. Anyone who is assuming that priority based on serial # or delivery date will transfer to a used RED One purchaser is just making a blind assumption.

[Jannard]

You can transfer ownership of a RED ONE and the new owner can use that priority to upgrade to an EPIC. That should make all RED ONEs valuable to sell and the early serial numbers even more valuable. Remember that a RED ONE can only be used once for trade-in allowance or for a discount on a Scarlet system. Once used, the serial number is then so marked.

Jim

[Tom Lowe]

You can transfer ownership of a RED ONE and the new owner can use that priority to upgrade to an EPIC. That should make all RED ONEs valuable to sell and the early serial numbers even more valuable. Remember that a RED ONE can only be used once for trade-in allowance or for a discount on a Scarlet system. Once used, the serial number is then so marked.

Jim

This should keep the very small minority of crybabies pacified, especially early adopters. The value will remain close to 17K. That is unheard of. Hell, early R1 owners might even be able to fetch a premium from rental houses wanting to get in line with big Epic orders.

[Steve Freebairn]

You can transfer ownership of a RED ONE and the new owner can use that priority to upgrade to an EPIC. That should make all RED ONEs valuable to sell and the early serial numbers even more valuable. Remember that a RED ONE can only be used once for trade-in allowance or for a discount on a Scarlet system. Once used, the serial number is then so marked.

Jim

This is great news Jim! We had checked with Brent and Jarred, and both were under the notion that the place in line got reset. So, just to verify, for sure we can transfer ownership of an earlier serial (and pay the associated cost to RED) and keep the early place in line? If so (which from your statement above, that's exactly what it says), this is fantastic.

[Nick Wolf]

Sorry to ask again...Please make this crystal clear for Me=Us.

Someone baught a R1 and they were # 250 ( And took delivery early on in fact the 250th to be delivered ) I buy from them and automatically become # 250 in line for Epic transfer?

Yes or no?


DogDay.

[Jannard]

Sorry to ask again...Please make this crystal clear for Me=Us.

Someone baught a R1 and they were # 250 ( And took delivery early on in fact the 250th to be delivered ) I buy from them and automatically become # 250 in line for Epic transfer?

Yes or no?


DogDay.

Yes.

The exception is if the owner of #250 waited to take delivery. It is not serial number based, it is delivery date based.

Jim

[Clint Johnson]

You can transfer ownership of a RED ONE and the new owner can use that priority to upgrade to an EPIC. That should make all RED ONEs valuable to sell and the early serial numbers even more valuable. Remember that a RED ONE can only be used once for trade-in allowance or for a discount on a Scarlet system. Once used, the serial number is then so marked.

Jim

Red is being amazingly generous with this policy... and I would hope never to take advantage of it. I want to use that trade-in.

[Stephen Williams]

This should keep the very small minority of crybabies pacified, especially early adopters. The value will remain close to 17K. That is unheard of. Hell, early R1 owners might even be able to fetch a premium from rental houses wanting to get in line with big Epic orders.

Hi,

I remember reading that the ramp up of Epic's should be a great deal faster than R1.

Stephen

[fightordie]

Hi,

I remember reading that the ramp up of Epic's should be a great deal faster than R1.

Stephen

Yeah you seem to have alot of opinions but you don't really know what will happen. They haven't even made them yet so you're basically posting vapor.

[Jannard]

Sounds like Stephen is trying his best to pour cold water on our program. Not sure why. It took us one year to get current with RED ONE reservations. It will certainly be faster than that for EPIC, but no telling how much faster. The fact is, you can trade in your camera for full credit. Maybe Stephen can point to a better policy in the industry? Any industry?

Jim

[Casey Green]

Speaking of trade in policies, etc...

Jim, If a RED owner has 2 Cameras, and would like to upgrade both to EPICs, and ALSO is interested in buying 1 or more SCARLETs, how will that work?

When, and how many SCARLETs will they be able to buy in the initial offering?

thx,

[Andrew Walker]

What if we want to trade in our Red One for an Epic and get a Scarlet. Would the people that got their cameras first have first dibs on a Scarlet as well?

[Nick Wolf]

Thanks for the clearity...


DogDay.

[Raul Gonzo]

Hey guys, it,s all in the recon section:



A RED ONE owner has several choices.

1. A RED ONE owner can keep the RED ONE and upgrade to the Mysterium-X sensor for a TBD price... just as we promised.

2. A RED ONE owner can purchase any EPIC and trade in their RED ONE for full $17,500 value towards the purchase... just as we promised.

3. A RED ONE owner can choose to keep their RED ONE and receive a one-time credit of 12% on a Scarlet system purchase.

Once any of the above has been chosen, the serial number will be marked as "Executed". It can not be used again for #2 or #3. It can, however, always be eligible for another sensor upgrade as we release new sensor technology in the future.

A RED ONE owner also has priority on purchasing a Scarlet or EPIC. Beyond the new Mysterium-X sensor option we will continue to offer firmware upgrades, service and parts for the RED ONE. It has become the legacy of RED. We will never forget the camera and those that believed in RED with their purchase of the now famous, RED ONE.

[Stephen Williams]

Sounds like Stephen is trying his best to pour cold water on our program. Not sure why. It took us one year to get current with RED ONE reservations. It will certainly be faster than that for EPIC, but no telling how much faster. The fact is, you can trade in your camera for full credit. Maybe Stephen can point to a better policy in the industry? Any industry?

Jim


Hi,

I remember reading that the ramp up of Epic's should be a great deal faster than R1.

Stephen

Hi Jim,

I don't get the cold water reference, but you would appear to confirm what I posted.

Best,

Stephen

Edit, I think I get the joke:biggrin:

[Tom Lowe]

Stephen, you a flirting dangerously close to the "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude" threshold.... I thought you just recently got yourself OFF that list?? Hahaha. :)

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen, you a flirting dangerously close to the "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude" threshold.... I thought you just recently got yourself OFF that list?? Hahaha. :)

Tom,

The no of RED One Cameras pe capita in Switzerland is rather high, I don't see any supply issues.

Stephen

[Vladimir Eugene]

I'm interested in this answer as well. Let's say #87's turn comes up. I decide to use the upgrade path towards the FF35 Epic. Can I also take advantage of Scarlett 87's turn- excercise the option to buy the Scarlett, I understand it would be without a discount.


Speaking of trade in policies, etc...

Jim, If a RED owner has 2 Cameras, and would like to upgrade both to EPICs, and ALSO is interested in buying 1 or more SCARLETs, how will that work?

When, and how many SCARLETs will they be able to buy in the initial offering?

thx,

[Tom Lowe]

Hi Stephen,

Yeah but what about your Scarlet purchase? :)

Are you going to order it under your grandma's name?

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen,

Yeah but what about your Scarlet purchase? :)

Are you going to order it under your grandma's name?

Hi,

Max's friend like last time.

Stephen

[Tom Lowe]

Haha... :)

[Casey Green]

Speaking of trade in policies, etc...

Jim, If a RED owner has 2 Cameras, and would like to upgrade both to EPICs, and ALSO is interested in buying 1 or more SCARLETs, how will that work?

When, and how many SCARLETs will they be able to buy in the initial offering?

thx,


I'm interested in this answer as well. Let's say #87's turn comes up. I decide to use the upgrade path towards the FF35 Epic. Can I also take advantage of Scarlett 87's turn- excercise the option to buy the Scarlett, I understand it would be without a discount.


Hey guys, it,s all in the recon section:


I guess what I really am trying to find out is How many additional EPICS or SCARLETS will a RED ONE owner be able to buy in the initial offering. (regardless of trade-ins or discounts).

The R1 used to have a limit of 5 Cameras early on.

[Gabriele Turchi]

Guys,

Really really sorry...but i have not understood how the reservation will work...

1)does they will apply again the reservation procedure?Like paying the 10% upfront and than wait ?
2)does the reservation will follow the R1 serial number?...But what does it mean?...i mean , I have the 3155 , if people before me are not sure ...how much time they have to decide and continue to be ahead of me?

3)when the reservation will start?

Honestly i think that they should sell the camera when the camera will be close to delivery , payment in total at the moment of the reservation and thats it.


Also i have to say that give priority following the serial number it seems the most natural way to do it ...but is not the most right...I'll give you an example : when RED announced the first Camera i was a "Kid" i was not working and i could not afford the 1000 reservation... after 2 years , after i have start working i had the money for the RED , i've bought it ...serial number 3155 , between here and Epic release i will be even more grow up , more money and i will want the epic...Why the list of people that will have the camera first should be the same?...i understand the fidelity ...But you should also consider that we are not born at the same time , so it's not just question of fidelity...

Also i think that i am in the group that as been delayed much longer : When i have ordered the Camera , the estimate delivery was 3 months , in the end i got the Camera after 7 months , but the point is that after my group they have started to produce like 1000 unit/month so basically the months later the RED as become ready to ship ...So the value of renting etc...is even less and i have never had something that if you want you should wait 7 months...
So the idea of being the 3155 person that will have the Epic is not that attractive...Basically the first people that had red made a lot of money from that rent (because was rare...) the same people will make more money from Epic ...

Jim?

Thanks


G

[alex trettenero]

maybe for someone like you, gabriele, being no. 3000 and not 300 was a matter of money. but for the most part of high numbers customers, i believe it was more a matter of buying red only after red ones proved to be the real digital cinema camera we all have been waiting for. low numbers are those who bought a red one when it was only a tech spec sheet at NAB, and believed it was just the perfect project at the perfect time. at the right price. giving the early customers a tangible sign of gratitude, something absolutely uncommon these days, makes me really feel proud of being an early red customer.

[Gabriele Turchi]

As i said , i understand that give priority to early customer it seems to be the most natural way , i understand that...

And i understand that the first cameras was "not that perfect"...I am saying that only because i was a "kid" when the first reservation came out now i can't be the first even if i have the money like the other costumer...

Also as i said i'll in the Market as Epic owner much much later...i am not saying that respect the first R1 reservation is so wrong ...but is not even so right...and the history it can't follow the same line always... Otherwise i will never be the first in my Job in this case...i think it does make sense...

Also what about the fact that people before me can be not ready to pay etc...?I mean how much time do we will have to say yes or no?

G

[donatello b]

"You can transfer ownership of a RED ONE and the new owner can use that priority to upgrade to an EPIC. That should make all RED ONEs valuable to sell and the early serial numbers even more valuable"

?? so it's the camera not the customer on the priority ?
IE: i have RED 103 .. i thought i was customer 103 ( according to date 103 shipped) not the camera ..
so if for some reason i had to sell 103 or somebody offered a price one could not refuse - i go to back of line ??
hummmmmmmmmmm.... capitalism !!!
make me a offer i can't refuse ( gotta be worth going to the end of the line )!!

[Jannard]

?? so it's the camera not the customer on the priority ?


It is the "customer with the camera" that gets priority. :-)

Jim

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Chew on this - about a year ago I turned down $100K for #19. It would have been a pretty good financial decision and I knew a lot of other early owners so I could have rented easily. Why did I say no? Its just a piece of hardware after all. It just felt wrong in my gut. Supporting the vision of the Red Leader and the Red Team is about more than money.

I will await the "you're a frakkin' idiot" posts that are sure to come :alien:

[Todd M.]

Supporting the vision of the Red Leader... :alien:

NANA NA NA NANA NA NA NANA NA NA LEADER. I support the movementarians... ahem... RED.