Jaime Vallés
05-08-2007, 02:01 PM
Hello, all. This issue has been brought up before but I just wanted to present it again in it's own thread. Since the RED team is able to improve the camera via firmware upgrades, I just wanted to put this in their minds for any future updates they might release. Also, I understand that this might seem like the whole "give a mouse a cookie and he's going to want a glass of milk" kind of greed. Well, it is. RED has offered us the impossible, and we are all very grateful. But now we want the proverbial glass of milk, A.K.A:
60p overcranking for slow motion.
I think it's safe to say that overcranking in 4K Redcode RAW is probably going to be the single most requested feature for the RED-ONE after it starts shipping. Currently, we can only achieve 60p in 4K using the RAW port and what will likely be a ridiculously expensive non-portable RAID setup. Fine for David Fincher; not so practical for Joe Indie Filmmaker. Most everyone will be shooting 4K Redcode Raw, which goes up to 30p maximum, due to the limits of the compression chip on-camera.
However, 60p is possible in Redcode RAW in 2K windowed mode and in 1080 RGB (downscaled from 4K), and 120p is possible in 720 windowed mode. So windowing (cropping) the sensor allows for faster frame rates.
This brings up the question:
If we shoot in 4K Redcode RAW, is it possible to crop the sensor to an aspect ratio of 2.40:1 (cinemascope) and achieve frame rates faster than 30p?
Some of this was addressed in a post over at DVXuser (click here (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=77117&page=13&highlight=Slow+motion)), but that was many months ago, and things have changed since then. At that point, it was basically stated that in order to get overcranking above 30p, one should shoot in a smaller format (1080 RGB at 60p) and then upscale in post.
I'm not good at the pixel math, but it seems to me that shooting 4K cropped to 2.40:1 would allow for slightly faster frame rates. Even if it's just 48p (which is 50% slo-mo) it would be fantastic for narrative feature work. I love the idea of working in a RAW environment, and shooting 1080p RGB for slo-mo when the rest of the movie is in 4K RAW seems like it would make the image quality take a hit for those precious overcranked money shots.
I don't know... Maybe I sound like a spoiled brat. :biggrin: I completely support the efforts of the RED team, and everything they've accomplished so far. I'm extremely grateful for the camera they've built, and can't wait to get my hands on #791. But I know that the detractors of RED are going to jump at the chance to bash the camera for "no onboard slo-mo without compromising image quality". If there's anything that can be done to address that concern (even through a future firmware update), it would make a lot of filmmakers happy. Just putting it out there in the "suggestions" box.
All the best!
60p overcranking for slow motion.
I think it's safe to say that overcranking in 4K Redcode RAW is probably going to be the single most requested feature for the RED-ONE after it starts shipping. Currently, we can only achieve 60p in 4K using the RAW port and what will likely be a ridiculously expensive non-portable RAID setup. Fine for David Fincher; not so practical for Joe Indie Filmmaker. Most everyone will be shooting 4K Redcode Raw, which goes up to 30p maximum, due to the limits of the compression chip on-camera.
However, 60p is possible in Redcode RAW in 2K windowed mode and in 1080 RGB (downscaled from 4K), and 120p is possible in 720 windowed mode. So windowing (cropping) the sensor allows for faster frame rates.
This brings up the question:
If we shoot in 4K Redcode RAW, is it possible to crop the sensor to an aspect ratio of 2.40:1 (cinemascope) and achieve frame rates faster than 30p?
Some of this was addressed in a post over at DVXuser (click here (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=77117&page=13&highlight=Slow+motion)), but that was many months ago, and things have changed since then. At that point, it was basically stated that in order to get overcranking above 30p, one should shoot in a smaller format (1080 RGB at 60p) and then upscale in post.
I'm not good at the pixel math, but it seems to me that shooting 4K cropped to 2.40:1 would allow for slightly faster frame rates. Even if it's just 48p (which is 50% slo-mo) it would be fantastic for narrative feature work. I love the idea of working in a RAW environment, and shooting 1080p RGB for slo-mo when the rest of the movie is in 4K RAW seems like it would make the image quality take a hit for those precious overcranked money shots.
I don't know... Maybe I sound like a spoiled brat. :biggrin: I completely support the efforts of the RED team, and everything they've accomplished so far. I'm extremely grateful for the camera they've built, and can't wait to get my hands on #791. But I know that the detractors of RED are going to jump at the chance to bash the camera for "no onboard slo-mo without compromising image quality". If there's anything that can be done to address that concern (even through a future firmware update), it would make a lot of filmmakers happy. Just putting it out there in the "suggestions" box.
All the best!