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View Full Version : Rationale for Announcing Epic & Scarlet So Early?



George Wilcox
12-10-2008, 12:45 AM
I'm curious as to the rationale for disclosing the amazing plans for the Epic and Scarlet so far ahead of the reality. While I'm now planning forward to buy them, I've also shelved the idea of buying a Red One - I'll wait for the cameras I REALLY want. I think this has probably put a crimp in Red One sales, while warning the competition where the bar will be. Given Canon, Sony and Panasonic's size advantages, they could beat Red to the finish line on cameras that fulfil the Red vision. Personally, I would have kept the lid on them until they were almost ready to roll off the production line, then stun the competition and the market with this massive paradigm shift. Was this an act of mercy to allow the competition to dodge the bullet? :w00t:

Michael "Dorkman" Scott
12-10-2008, 01:25 AM
With full trade-in value of RED ONE towards an Epic, plus the availability of the Epic-X package only to RED ONE owners, there's no reason not to get a RED now, get your workflow and pipeline built around Redcode, and make a seamless transition to the next phase down the line. If you're going to spend the money anyway, might as well spend it now and shoot great images in the meantime.

Rob Worth
12-10-2008, 01:29 AM
I'm now planning forward to buy them

That is one good reason.

Another might be that Jim thinks of him self as the master of suspense but in fact he can't help but spill the beans because he is too excited about what they have done.

Priyesh P.
12-10-2008, 01:42 AM
Maybe he wanted to keep from buying one of the other, seeminly (or obviously) inferior cameras (until recently I thought about getting a new panasonic, too).

Christian Edwards
12-10-2008, 04:39 AM
Prior Planning & Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Its nice to think reduser opinion may have an influence on the overall development of the cameras ....Like last year i proposed the idea of a 28k camera and everybody laughed @ me...Just kidding lol...can you imagine the data transfer on that Bitch ...say redone images are roughly 12mb or so for a single frame. x that by around 24 = 288 x 30 = 8640 That roughly 8.5 gig a second ...thats right ....8.5 gig a second , i said ....8.5 gig a second ! lets take it a step further ...if we shot a feature (which i dont think you would, but lets say you did ) it goes for 1.5 hr thats getting close to 1/2 a petabyte for a feature. this is obviously a rough calculation .Im sure you'd use this camera primarily for visual effects plates im thinking but fuck . (excuse the swearing but i think in this case its warranted ),

p.s sorry to stray off topic but i have a tendency to go off on tangents

i suppose if anything, Expectations Inspire the Imagination... there's nothing wrong with that :)

Nick Wolf
12-10-2008, 04:56 AM
Cause sucker punches are for punks ... This is a Championship match for The Heavy Weight Title ... Of The World.

He is calling them out.

For the Fun of it ... Hehehe = (To Borrow Jarreds Expression)


DogDay.



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Mark K.
12-10-2008, 06:17 AM
Because Red had already announced the original Scarlet and Epic concepts at NAB 2008. Retracting them and then keeping quiet about the whole thing wouldn't look very good from a marketing perspective I would have though.

Brent J. Craig
12-10-2008, 06:37 AM
I think they announce products early so folks on Reduser can take part in the design of them. Many of the features and upgrades of the Red One came from suggestions on this message board.

What better way to design a product than to ask your customers: "Here's the box - what do you want it to do?"

Jeremy Hughes
12-10-2008, 09:54 AM
Maybe so that they can plan on buying them instead of the competition at the same price.

Brent's got a good explination.

Justin O'Neill
12-10-2008, 10:06 AM
I know quite a few people looking at buying RED Ones so they can reserve a place in line to buy an EPIC or Scarlet.

For someone who is planning on buying a S35 EPIC they can only benefit from buying a RED One now.

Michael Moreno
12-10-2008, 11:19 AM
hey george
with all do respect
you think you know what your talking about but you dont
we have enough posts like this around lately
misinformed and quick to speak up
peace

brandon thomas
12-10-2008, 03:14 PM
With full trade-in value of RED ONE towards an Epic, plus the availability of the Epic-X package only to RED ONE owners, there's no reason not to get a RED now, get your workflow and pipeline built around Redcode, and make a seamless transition to the next phase down the line. If you're going to spend the money anyway, might as well spend it now and shoot great images in the meantime.


exactly. I'm very tempted to buy a red, the company i work for already has one, so we'd have a back up, then trade mine in on epic x, which comes with batteries, etc.. Then I could two step my way to an epic at a discount...
I go back and forth.. it's a ton of money, but epic is going to be a great camera...

Rick Darge
12-10-2008, 07:30 PM
exactly. I'm very tempted to buy a red, the company i work for already has one, so we'd have a back up, then trade mine in on epic x, which comes with batteries, etc.. Then I could two step my way to an epic at a discount...
I go back and forth.. it's a ton of money, but epic is going to be a great camera...

It doesn't come with batteries, FYI

George Wilcox
12-10-2008, 09:59 PM
hey george
with all do respect
you think you know what your talking about but you dont
we have enough posts like this around lately
misinformed and quick to speak up
peace

I posted the question due to a desire to hear the perspective of the Red community on this one, as I come from a business planning and process engineering background as well as mostly still photography. I'm a risk management/efficiency guy. I see from the feedback that the opportunities (which Jim is clearly good at exploiting) are probably greater than the risks AND I got a couple of good laughs to boot!

Jarred Land
12-11-2008, 12:51 AM
Let me ask this question a different way... if you know what you are going to build.. why would you want to keep it a secret? That's what everyone else does.. and I don't think its the best way to do things.

We get alot of feedback, internally and externally, and going though the entire process of publicly releasing development as we go helps weed out some things that could be over-looked... and we have time to correct, change and modify. You can bet the farm that things will change with Scarlet and Epic for the better over the next 6 months because of this.

Of course there is an issue of protecting sales of legacy cameras.. but we are a "customer" company and have a pretty incredible upgrade plan, so there is no downside to buying a RED ONE after new product announcement.

Petr Dvorak
12-11-2008, 09:06 AM
I'm curious as to the rationale for disclosing the amazing plans for the Epic and Scarlet so far ahead of the reality. While I'm now planning forward to buy them, I've also shelved the idea of buying a Red One - I'll wait for the cameras I REALLY want. I think this has probably put a crimp in Red One sales, while warning the competition where the bar will be. Given Canon, Sony and Panasonic's size advantages, they could beat Red to the finish line on cameras that fulfil the Red vision. Personally, I would have kept the lid on them until they were almost ready to roll off the production line, then stun the competition and the market with this massive paradigm shift. Was this an act of mercy to allow the competition to dodge the bullet? :w00t:

What was shown will change thru the year and dont forget that Redusers with their instant reactions, ideas and moanings has strong impact on development or even change of whole concept. Its living organism. If they keep lid tight till the end, we will get only one Epic and one Fix Scarlet whith some few functions and couple of drawbacks and then its too late for any redesign. Instatnt and free interaction with your future users is absolute luxury any manufacturer had ever dream of - well if you can handle it :wink:
Unfortunatelly part of the game is that this advantage can instantly share your competition too. :wink:

Otherwise you have to pay big bucks to marketing for creating hype covering all drawbacks and disadvantages of your products, and with very uncertain results.

Concept "I know the best and You have to buy it!" is over.

... and yes there is much much more you need to succeed :wink: