AJA IO HD Box and Macbook Pro

[Brian Broz]

With the news of the AJA IO HD (FW800 based) box coming soon with its realtime support of ProRes, I'm wondering who is planning to use this with a Macbook Pro to offload/work with RED on location?
And more importantly...can someone clarify the real applications for the IO box and it's importance out in the field.
I hear alot of talk about it...but admit I'm somewhat confused as to the importance of this new box. It sounds like it will do realtime conversions to/from ProRes leaving the laptop processors to work on other tasks?
Hoping someone with alot more Mac computer saavy can chime in for us camera guys.
Cheers,

BBroz

[Sanjin Jukic]

You could ask Mike Curtis at HD4indies. He is a master workflow consulter for HD, FCP and AJA or BM boxes and a stuff like that.

http://www.hdforindies.com/

[Clayton Harper]

Brian,

I think you seem to understand the concept pretty well for IO HD.

I think the significance of the product is that you can field capture HD-SDI content to a very high quality (10bit 4:2:2) codec and edit that high quality footage in the field. You can then output your edit back to HD-SDI in the field while monitoring over HD-SDI.

I think this is mostly of interest to the ENG/EFP or News Set. People who take a lot of broadcast quality gear into the field (eg monitors and tape decks) and create their deliverables while they're there.

I DO NOT think this is really of interest to the Red Shooter because we are not capturing Redcode to laptop in the field, we are transfering it over a data port. You just plug that old Red drive into the Macbook Pro and rock out.

As far as monitoring goes, I assume you will be grading and editing somewhere indoors so no need for IOHD. Better to spend that money on getting a proper Mac Pro and an accurate monitoring solution. IO HD is like $3500 which'll buy you a dual 2.66 pro mac and a nice big cinema display.

[Hrvoje Simic]

I DO NOT think this is really of interest to the Red Shooter because we are not capturing Redcode to laptop in the field, we are transfering it over a data port. You just plug that old Red drive into the Macbook Pro and rock out.

As far as monitoring goes, I assume you will be grading and editing somewhere indoors so no need for IOHD. Better to spend that money on getting a proper Mac Pro and an accurate monitoring solution. IO HD is like $3500 which'll buy you a dual 2.66 pro mac and a nice big cinema display.

Same opinion here.

[dalemccready]

The IO could be very useful for someone wanting to migrate their older projects onto a digital system. You don't have to just plug HD-SDI in, you could take footage that only exists on VHS, 1" tape, Digibeta, SP etc and plug it into the IO and a laptop. Good for gathering that old footage you could never be arsed with before. Maybe good for a studio that doesn't want a tape deck at all, just capture your footage through the IO at the telecine to ProRes and carry on in FCP from there. Not that you'll need to telecine for much longer!

[Dominique Grenier]

As far as monitoring goes, I assume you will be grading and editing somewhere indoors so no need for IOHD. Better to spend that money on getting a proper Mac Pro and an accurate monitoring solution. IO HD is like $3500 which'll buy you a dual 2.66 pro mac and a nice big cinema display.

That's true, but don't forget that you'd still need something to output your video like a Decklink card or Kona card which add about $1k to your Mac Pro, just for the card. Add to this a descent monitor (the cheapest way is to get a 23" LCD + HDLink combo) which add at least another $1k.

[Gunleik Groven]

I'd get the box for field monitoring to a broadcast monitor.

The added value of being able to capture via HD SDI is just nuts, so I'll take that as well -;)

Gunleik

[David Battistella]

Brian,

I could see many advantages to this box for use with RED in the field. There are a few caveates as well.

First. The box gives you a lot of flexibility but it only records at Apple ProRez quality through the HD-SDI port. This means that is the maximum image quality you could record fromthe RED HD-SDI port is limited to APPLE pro rez.

BUT. There are many cool applications where this is all you would want or need. Consider a fast turn around in which you want to eliminate the REDCine step and record direct to disk, edit in ProRez and master out to any of several tape formats.

Think about a double record scenario where you are shooting REDcode to your drive and recording to a secondary source as well.
THe I/O might be used as an HD-SDI pass through and you could record to one of many HD-SDI tape or disk based formats as a back up.

Let's say you would need to record a couple of interviews and the producer is flying into town and needs to walk away with (god forbid) HDXDCAM or Panasonic HD. The I/O could function as a passthrough and monitoring box to the deck.

It also has some cross convert and downconvert features built in so you could technically deliver SD from it as well. I think it could extend the functionality of RED as a field camera.

Tape or optical based media is here to stay for many clients, so if you plan to be able to deliver a multitude of formats a box like this could certainly help out.

As someone else stated, the I/O will give you clean HD-SDI monitoring ability in the field as well.

David

[pliny]

ProRes looks like an attractive offline codec option, and provided metadata can be maintained and/or logged on set, the IoHD would generate your offline proxies in real time--a huge plus.

That said, ProRes bitrate at full quality 1080i60 (220 Mbps) is still roughly equivalent to what Greame has been estimating for 4k Redcode Raw (192-224 Mbs), so this would not appear to be any kind of advantage to Red shooters -- with the caveat that FCP 6.0 will apparently not support Redcode right away, whereas it will support ProRes.

On the other hand, using ProRes to offline with other cameras, such as the Viper, would seem a lot more attractive. The prospect of real-time proxies is the kicker here.

[Cail Young]

ProRes is apparently an *online* codec, for broadcast, anyway. It's supposed to be very, very clean.

[Graeme Nattress]

ProRes is a great workflow for HD deliverable, either live, or post transcode from 4k raw. It's not for everyone, but it's a great option none-the-less. It's also a great move by Apple to do a nice HD full raster broadcast codec. That's just so useful for many things.

Graeme

[Rob Lohman]

with the caveat that FCP 6.0 will apparently not support Redcode right away

Depends on what you mean by support. You will get the REDCODE QuickTime codec with your camera and be able to edit in FCP 5 or 6.

If you're talking about the deeper integration like RT enabled then you are correct. That will come in a later FCP 6 release.

[pliny]

Rob - yep I was thinking specifically about the ability to cut 1k extractions in RT. My understanding is that this will be in version 6.0.0.

[Simon Blackledge]

I think "cut" being the intention to begin with.. RT fades etc coming later...
s

[Brian Broz]

Great comments and discussion folks. The more I look into it the more it seems the IO HD box will be a great tool on location. Especially on shoots where cameras other than RED will be used:-(
(Like Canon XLH1s, HDX900s, HVX200s etc)
And the flexibility to be able to plug into a tower is a nice option. The question is how well ProRes will be accepted in the coming months...
Thanks all,

BB

[Clayton Harper]

That's true, but don't forget that you'd still need something to output your video like a Decklink card or Kona card which add about $1k to your Mac Pro, just for the card. Add to this a descent monitor (the cheapest way is to get a 23" LCD + HDLink combo) which add at least another $1k.

Of course, but in the long run, you could add another monitor and use cinema desktop for a while and when you were ready to get a good monitoring set-up you spring for a Decklink or a Kona and something that does a passable Rec 709. I just think the IOHD is expensive for what it is UNLESS you 100% no shit have to do all that HD-SDI business in the field. Plus, it locks you into Pro Res where if you had the tower you could later upgrade.

Final Cut Pro is great cause it works on a laptop but it gets "Pro" on a tower.

[Robert Sanders]

I wish someone had a Rec 709 LUT I could load into my HDLink.

[Rob Lohman]

Rob - yep I was thinking specifically about the ability to cut 1k extractions in RT. My understanding is that this will be in version 6.0.0.

Support for different resolution extracts is in the QuickTime codec, so all QuickTime enabled applications get that benefit. So you don't need the special RED support in FCP 6 for that.

This is how "Crossing the Line" was cut by Peter's team. They loaded a QuickTime reference file that was set to 1K extract and edited in FCP 5. Obviously this was an offline edit (1K) then was then conformed to the 4K (just like you would do with film).

Whether this is real-time highly depends on the number of CPU's available and if you shot 4K or 2K.

Keep in mind there are two real-time "things". Real-time as in can you play a lower resolution at 24 fps (for example) or not. The second thing is that our codec will be RT enabled in FCP (the future FCP 6 release). This will allow you to do certain RT effects as well (assuming your system is fast enough to do the decode in real-time). This is different than the real-time performance of your system & the codec.

I apologize if this is a bit confusing. We'll write it down in a more clear form when everything ships!

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I think it's about time apple considers a second firewire 800 port for the macbook pro.