Production Sound Workflow

[Tommy]

I was wondering if someone could help me fill in the blanks concerning the production sound workflow (for a feature) and how exactly the dailies get passed along to the editor at the end of each day. Here are the main points of my plan...

Record Broadcast WAV Mono Files (BWF-M) at 24bit 48kHz. (Use Mono files since Polyphonic files are not acceptable in the iXML workflow to Pro Tools.)
Record 1 separate file per channel (I'm not sure this is necessary-any thought?). The Scene, Shot, and Take numbers are to be embedded into the filename (Example: 27-01A-02.BWF). If possible, use a Time Code Slate that supports 23.98 Time Code. Jam sync with camera’s TOD timecode.

What I want to know as I mentioned earlier (the simple question) is how the production sound mixer passes the files off to the editor. Is it possible to have them load their clips onto the drives that the Red Tech is using to backup the footage? That way when one of the drives is brought to the editor they can transfer both Picture and Sound. Also, is there a preferred program for converting BWF files into a format that works with FCP? Finally, how many tracks are usually used while recording, my understanding is that there is one mixed track (for the editor) and various unmixed tracks for use by the sound designer/mixer. If you know of any detailed production sound workflow charts I could check out I would really appreciate it. Thanks everyone, Tommy

[farroutpro]

I was wondering if someone could help me fill in the blanks concerning the production sound workflow (for a feature) and how exactly the dailies get passed along to the editor at the end of each day. Here are the main points of my plan...

Record Broadcast WAV Mono Files (BWF-M) at 24bit 48kHz. (Use Mono files since Polyphonic files are not acceptable in the iXML workflow to Pro Tools.)
Record 1 separate file per channel (I'm not sure this is necessary-any thought?). The Scene, Shot, and Take numbers are to be embedded into the filename (Example: 27-01A-02.BWF). If possible, use a Time Code Slate that supports 23.98 Time Code. Jam sync with camera’s TOD timecode.

What I want to know as I mentioned earlier (the simple question) is how the production sound mixer passes the files off to the editor. Is it possible to have them load their clips onto the drives that the Red Tech is using to backup the footage? That way when one of the drives is brought to the editor they can transfer both Picture and Sound. Also, is there a preferred program for converting BWF files into a format that works with FCP? Finally, how many tracks are usually used while recording, my understanding is that there is one mixed track (for the editor) and various unmixed tracks for use by the sound designer/mixer. If you know of any detailed production sound workflow charts I could check out I would really appreciate it. Thanks everyone, Tommy

If your Sound Mixer is recording non linear (Cantar, Sound Devices 7series, Fostex PD606, etc.) then yes you can have them transfer the daily audio to your production hard drives.

I would suggest you use a separate hard drive for audio only for several reasons, you will have the audio and video backed up and not all your eggs in one basket, editors are not waiting for there turn to download hard drives, camera and sound depts. are not sharing the drives and making transferring mistakes, and using separate hard drives assures that you don't have any formatting issues with the hard drives and the various operating systems in use.

[Tom Visser]

I would also recommend that the time code master not be the camera, but the camera jams to either the audio recorder or TC lock box, such as the Ambient or Denecke units (which probably originally locked to the audio recorder's clock). Especially with the RED, you will want to use a 3rd party TC master if you are not typically careful about battery swaps or do not perform hot swaps. Audio is typically the master with respect to "TC chain of command".

[Tommy]

Thanks for your advice! I guess I should explain the hard drive backup idea in more detail and maybe it will seem viable. If there are 2 HDD on set being used to backup all the R3D footage then wouldn't it make sense to have the BWF files dumped onto these drives at the end of the day or periodically throughout the day (as long as sound is aware of the HDD format). This would ensure increased safety through multi-drive backup. Otherwise, how exactly do the Sound dailies get to the editor--by Data DVD I would guess. Next, if the camera is set to TOD timecode and jam synced to the audio recorder, the audio recorder should be set to TOD timecode as well, correct? In this case it's recommended to have at least 10 seconds of audio pre-roll before the slate clap--is this necessary with R3D files? Finally, can most audio recorders run at 23.98 fps or is there a chance I'm going to have to record at 30 fps? Thanks again, Tommy

[farroutpro]

Thanks for your advice! I guess I should explain the hard drive backup idea in more detail and maybe it will seem viable. If there are 2 HDD on set being used to backup all the R3D footage then wouldn't it make sense to have the BWF files dumped onto these drives at the end of the day or periodically throughout the day (as long as sound is aware of the HDD format). This would ensure increased safety through multi-drive backup. Otherwise, how exactly do the Sound dailies get to the editor--by Data DVD I would guess. Next, if the camera is set to TOD timecode and jam synced to the audio recorder, the audio recorder should be set to TOD timecode as well, correct? In this case it's recommended to have at least 10 seconds of audio pre-roll before the slate clap--is this necessary with R3D files? Finally, can most audio recorders run at 23.98 fps or is there a chance I'm going to have to record at 30 fps? Thanks again, Tommy

I suggest giving your sound dept their own hdd for use. most of the recorders can record directly to the ext hdd and then they just hand off when you wrap or film break. Otherwise the sound mixer will turn in DVDRAM discs or whatever you request. Dont mix and match camera and sound drives. Yes the sound mixer will run TOD free run TC. Since you are recording 23.98 then the sound mixer will run 29.97NDF and you will have perfect TC matched audio. If you run true 24 then your sound mixer will run 30NDF. This is the NTSC rule of thumb. You don't really need pre roll with the non linear world of more than a couple of seconds but I don't see 10 seconds as needed.

[Tommy]

Thanks Scott! If I can ask you a few more questions I'd really appreciate it. One simple question... each channel on a field recorder can record 2 tracks, correct? I assume this is a stereo recording and if I just wanted to record a single mono track I could. Second, are the BWFs saved as separate files for each channel or each track? Is there a choice? For a film would I include the scene, shot, take, and track number in the file name (example: 27-01A-01-T2)? Third, why is 30fps NDF preferred over 23.98--I've read articles where people say working with camera and audio both set at 23.98 is the most seamless way to go. Finally, would separate BWF mono files be preferable over poly for the editor and sound editor? I just wonder what the editor should do with the extra tracks if they are just going to be using the mixed track. Thanks again, Tommy

[farroutpro]

Thanks Scott! If I can ask you a few more questions I'd really appreciate it. One simple question... each channel on a field recorder can record 2 tracks, correct? I assume this is a stereo recording and if I just wanted to record a single mono track I could. Second, are the BWFs saved as separate files for each channel or each track? Is there a choice? For a film would I include the scene, shot, take, and track number in the file name (example: 27-01A-01-T2)? Third, why is 30fps NDF preferred over 23.98--I've read articles where people say working with camera and audio both set at 23.98 is the most seamless way to go. Finally, would separate BWF mono files be preferable over poly for the editor and sound editor? I just wonder what the editor should do with the extra tracks if they are just going to be using the mixed track. Thanks again, Tommy

Well yes and no, each track on a recorder can recorder as many tracks as you like, you just need to route them, but typically you would record a single input to a single track unless it is your mix track(s) then it would be mono if a single track or stereo if using two tracks. If the recorder you are working with supports metadata then you can input as much information as you like. Some recorders make it easier and some not. You would need to research that recorders feature set and method of entry.

If you would like to learn more about all the different ways to use TC, I suggest Wolf Seebergs books. http://www.wolfvid.com/html/lit.html

but a easy rule of thumb is....

Camera FPS Sound FPS
23.976 (23.98) = 29.97
29.97(n/df) = 29.97(n/df)
24 = 30ndf
25 = 25

this is a PDF chart that was setup for Avid workflows but applies to FCP as well http://www.aaton.com/files/avid-recording-rates.pdf

Most production workflows are to send a polymix to telecine and the ISO tracks to the editor. If your project is smaller then the editor gets everything. Having the ISO tracks could come in handy if you need one actors lines outside of the mix, EX you have a scene with yelling and the lines get over lapped in the mix.

[Tommy]

Thanks again, this has been a really big help! If I were to have the camera and field recorder jam synced to a smart slate would I be running 29.97fps timecode even though the camera is running at 23.98fps? Also, on a low budget production does Sound usually deliver both a (mono?) polywave mix and individual iso tracks to the editor. From there the editor would cut the film with the (mono?) polywave mix and deliver an OMF of the polywave mix along with the individual iso tracks to the sound designer? So, as the editor if I request the production mixer follow these guidelines...

-Record at 24bit 48kHz
-Record as Broadcast WAV Files (BWF)
-Provide one mono polywave mixed track and individual iso tracks
-Scene, Shot, Take, and Track numbers are embedded into the filename (Example: 27-01A-02-T2.BWF).
-Use TOD timecode (29.97 non-drop frame or drop frame?)
-The polywave mixed mono file and individual iso tracks will be burned onto a Data DVD and delivered to the editor at the end of each shooting day.

...we should have everything necessary for post sound then, correct?

Happy Holidays Scott,
Tommy

[farroutpro]

Thanks again, this has been a really big help! If I were to have the camera and field recorder jam synced to a smart slate would I be running 29.97fps timecode even though the camera is running at 23.98fps? Also, on a low budget production does Sound usually deliver both a (mono?) polywave mix and individual iso tracks to the editor. From there the editor would cut the film with the (mono?) polywave mix and deliver an OMF of the polywave mix along with the individual iso tracks to the sound designer? So, as the editor if I request the production mixer follow these guidelines...

-Record at 24bit 48kHz Yes
-Record as Broadcast WAV Files (BWF) .WAV
-Provide one mono polywave mixed track and individual iso tracks Yes
-Scene, Shot, Take, and Track numbers are embedded into the filename (Example: 27-01A-02-T2.BWF). Yes
-Use TOD timecode (29.97 non-drop frame or drop frame?) NDF
-The polywave mixed mono file and individual iso tracks will be burned onto a Data DVD and delivered to the editor at the end of each shooting day. Yes

...we should have everything necessary for post sound then, correct?

Happy Holidays Scott,
Tommy

yeppers

I would suggest just have the mix down on Disc of your choice and then turn the ISO tracks on a HDD.

[Sound Sorcerer]

yeppers

I would suggest just have the mix down on Disc of your choice and then turn the ISO tracks on a HDD.

Great topic guys!!! Very concise & accurate info... :ninja:

[Deron Kamisato]

Why is the video timecode set at 23.98 and the audio timecode set at 29.97 NDF? How would you jam sync this? And how would you sync these files in FCP?

Thanks

[farroutpro]

Why is the video timecode set at 23.98 and the audio timecode set at 29.97 NDF? How would you jam sync this? And how would you sync these files in FCP?

Thanks

Please read all the posts in this thread the answers to timecode questions can be found in Wolf's books.