Who is getting the RAW port?

[Curran Giddens]

I just wanted to see who is getting the RAW port.

I already have the RAW port included in my accessories pre-order. Hopefully there is no delay in shipping for those who place a pre-order sooner, rather than later.


p.s. I will use Redcode RAW for most shots. The RAW port is only needed for overcranking 4k RAW.

[Poi Boy]

I'll wait for a raw port until there is a reasonably priced raid solution.
Aloha
-A

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I checked "not interested" which is a lie, but I can´t justify the cost and bulkiness of something like that for what I am going to do.

Having 120 fps at 2k (or even 60fps at 4k) would be incredible, but everything comes at a price.

[Dominique Grenier]

I checked "not interested" which is a lie, but I can´t justify the cost and bulkiness of something like that for what I am going to do.

Having 120 fps at 2k (or even 60fps at 4k) would be incredible, but everything comes at a price.

Same boat here...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I didn't vote because none of the options really fit me. I'm very interested in the RAW port, but I'm not going to buy at this time because I don't actually NEED it. If / when the time comes, I will rent a RED body w/RAW port installed or I will buy a second camera body for that purpose.

I fully expect the 4K RAW to fit all my post needs, even for greenscreen and roto work. My main interests for the RAW port would be the higher frame rates as well as the S35 4.5K possibility. However, since the limiting factor seems to be the internal processors, I would assume that these will be upgradeable at some future date.

[Gunleik Groven]

Like Eirik

G

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Eirik! ;-)

PS: Vi må prate en RED en dag, er du i Oslo så ring!

[Curran Giddens]

Since I am not going to be able use the RAW port myself until the RED-RAID or other reasonably-priced solution is available, the reason I'm getting the RAW port now instead of waiting, is for rental purposes. If I'm the only one with a RAW port (which I am so far), my camera will be in even more demand!

[PaulClements]

IMHO you ought to have a RAID system available to the client Curran, even if you source it and buy it as and when a client asks for it. The opportunity for rental to people who just want to get the camera and shoot rather than having to source such equipment themselves will be even greater for you and other RAW port owners. Without something you'll likely get a lot of prospective clients saying "So what can I output the RAW data too?" rather than the clients who've got experience in digital RAW capture and will be happy to use it straight out of the box.

If you haven't already! :)

[Billy McCannon]

Doesn't the RAW port proclude the use of onboard flash cards. I would be cautious that this might inhibit more renters then the RAW port attaracts.

[Curran Giddens]

IMHO you ought to have a RAID system available to the client Curran, even if you source it and buy it as and when a client asks for it.
If you haven't already! :)

No. I haven't sourced any compatible RAID system yet. There is nothing out there that I can afford for now anyway.


Doesn't the RAW port proclude the use of onboard flash cards. I would be cautious that this might inhibit more renters then the RAW port attaracts.

I plan on having the RED-RAM available to those who are cautious to use the RED-DRIVE.

[Jarred Land]

The responses arn't surprising to me.. after seeing Redcode.

[Jaime Vallés]

4K Redcode RAW all the way, baby!

[david farland]

No. I haven't sourced any compatible RAID system yet. There is nothing out there that I can afford for now anyway.



I plan on having the RED-RAM available to those who are cautious to use the RED-DRIVE.


From what i'm hearing the raw port will be a 'closed' standard.
You'll need to purchase Dalsa Codec's recorder, currently being built 'under licence' to record off it.

Now if the raw port is open for anyone to build a recorder, Red will publish the spec I'm sure but so far they haven't.

Red??


Cheers,

[Curran Giddens]

From what i'm hearing the raw port will be a 'closed' standard.
You'll need to purchase Dalsa Codec's recorder, currently being built 'under licence' to record off it.

Now if the raw port is open for anyone to build a recorder, Red will publish the spec I'm sure but so far they haven't.

Red??


Cheers,

You mean the Codex? Someone will have to rent that separately. There is no way I can afford the Codex that is currently on the market. I'm hoping RED will still make an affordable RED-RAID sometime in the next year.

http://www.codexdigital.com/index.php

[david farland]

If you add the RAW PORT for uncompressed 4K and 4K+ recording, then you are also looking at hooking it up to a $100K+ price range 4K / 4K+ capable DDR. Historically that's actually a good deal, but compare that option against the power of REDCODE RAW which enables 4K resolution internal recording. And by the way REDCODE RAW recording was a very significant post NAB 2006 upgrade to the camera specifications. This was 100% the right thing to do as it made a 4K workflow truely affordable, but did also add some extra hardware costs.

No release date at this time for a RED RAID, although we are currently working to ensure compatibility of our RAW PORT fibre optic output with some existing Digital Disk Recorder systems.

The RAW port supports 4520 x 2540 pixels at 12 bits per pixel at up to 60fps. The signal formatting used is pretty standard 10GigEthernet packets, and a high throughput DDR like device is required to record the data. Specifically Codex have committed to the development of a complimentary optical input port. More news on this later.

Curran,
I'm mainly going from these quotes from Stuart and a couple of others that I can't find now.
Pity as I know people on this forum that can make these recorders in their sleep....
Their day job is designing redundant/high avail. stockmarket data systems so buidling a field recorder like this is a doddle.

Cheers,

[Sean Michael Johnston]

I'm gonna have a hard enough time backing up all my 4k REDCODE footage at @30MB per second. I think it would be cool to offer a client a completely uncomressed capture, but they'd have to pay a premium for me to deal with such an unwieldy amount of data. And somebody is going to have to pay to back that up too. It would only be doable in a controlled studio environment because you'd be tethered to a refridgerator.
REDCODE is really what makes RED such an attractive solution. Dalsa, Arri and Panavision don't seem to be offering anything near this level of sophistication.

[Jarred Land]

Codex isnt owned by Dalsa unless i missed the press release... and is just one option for Raw output.. there are many possible solutions, and yes they are all somewhat expensive (depends what expensive means to you)

Working uncompressed isnt something the indy guy will want to do. When i was shooting Franky uncompressed and storing it in 16bit RGB, each second was almost 2gb... A 500gb drive would only give me 3 minutes of storage.

[Poi Boy]

ouch !!! but still, if you wanted to capture say 12 minutes of slo mo, why couldn't you have an inexpensive raid solution for that ?
Aloha
-A

[luis bustamante]

there's also the colorspace (http://www.colorspaceinc.com/) recorder that supposedly will handle 4k raw at $30K...

[david farland]

Hi Jarred,
Thanks for the info...
I agree uncompressed is not for the faint hearted.
But getting back to Curran's predictament, does he have to buy a complete uncompressed capture solution from Codex or equivalent company annointed/licenced' by Red or can he order a Red uncompressed option/s and assemble the uncompressed raw recorder from parts of his choice?

Dave,

[Dominique Grenier]

ouch !!! but still, if you wanted to capture say 12 minutes of slo mo, why couldn't you have an inexpensive raid solution for that ?

I don't think there's such a thing as an inexpensive RAID with a datarate of 2GB/sec... you'd need to go fiber channel for this and have, what, 20 drives in a RAID 0 to get that kind of speed??

[Poi Boy]

I know there is no such thing, I'm just possing the question why not ? It doesn't have to cost $100K.
Aloha
-A

[Aaron Burtle]

there's also the colorspace (http://www.colorspaceinc.com/) recorder that supposedly will handle 4k raw at $30K...

You are correct, we will absolutely be able to handle the data rates of 4K RAW with the ICON recorder. We simply need to know exactly how the RAW data is being formatted. I'm certain the Red Team is incredibly busy getting their camera ready for retail. As that date approaches I hope they are able to find the time to release a white paper describing how that RAW data is passed, or will work with us to ensure flawless integration of both systems.



Cheers,

[Poi Boy]

Wow! thanks Aaron, good to know.
Aloha
-A

[Andreas Fernbrant]

I'm one of those in strong favor of being able to overcrank in camera to more than 30fps.
My only reason for getting the RAW port would be 120fps in 2K. But I can't justify the costs.

I made a suggestion of a RAM buffer in another thread.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=820

I still feel this a good and economic solution if it's possible.

[Curran Giddens]

I'm gonna have a hard enough time backing up all my 4k REDCODE footage at @30MB per second. I think it would be cool to offer a client a completely uncomressed capture, but they'd have to pay a premium for me to deal with such an unwieldy amount of data. And somebody is going to have to pay to back that up too. It would only be doable in a controlled studio environment because you'd be tethered to a refridgerator.
REDCODE is really what makes RED such an attractive solution. Dalsa, Arri and Panavision don't seem to be offering anything near this level of sophistication.

I am all for using REDCODE (which is why I wrote the p.s. in my first post). I will probably compress to REDCODE RGB in Redcine right after capture to minimize storage space. I will be in a controlled studio environment anyway so I have no problem being tethered to a RAID. In fact I would rather it be a huge RAID with full-size (3.5") user-replaceable SATA drives. This way I can also use it as a high-performance online storage solution when not being used for recording from the RAW port. I'm sure most people would rather have a small, low-capacity portable solution like the ICON though.

[david farland]

Curran,
Do you know if you can (or get someone to) build the raid array, or are to expecting to buy an 'off the shelf' complete solution thru some Red supplier?

Dave,

[Curran Giddens]

No, I don't personally know of anyone who can build what I want. I have to admit this is the reason why I always bring up this subject (I started a couple threads on the subject awhile ago). I'm hoping to buy an "off the shelf" solution from RED. Trying to stir up some interest. RED-RAID anyone? hint hint :wink: :wink:

[david farland]

Thanks Curran...what I was really asking, but not very well, was if you knew it was possible or not to make your own, rather than were you up to it.

Dave,