ALERT: Red Cameras & Access. Stolen in Boston

[Steve Sherrick]

To the Red community, it has come to my attention that two rental companies in Boston - Film Star Rentals and Boston Camera - have had Red Cameras and accessories stolen. Details are still being sorted out, but it appears that a production company (almost certain not legitimate) setup accounts with the two companies, provided insurance certificates, etc. and had a T-Mobile commercial shoot planned for this week. They have disappeared with the equipment.

From Film Star Rentals the following gear was stolen.

Red One #4452 and accessories
Zeiss Standard set
Sony EX-3
Sound Devices 302 Mixer
Bogen Tripod
Panasonic 17" Field Monitor
Sennheiser EW100 Lav system
6 Motorolla Radios
Macbook Pro System


From Boston Camera

Complete Red One Package (still awaiting serial #)
Cooke 18-100
Car Mount

More details will follow in the next few days, but suffice to say this was a big hit. I do know the name of the company they provided, as well as the address and I can say with almost certainty it was fictional based on this information. But we have to let law enforcement sort through the facts and I am not comfortable posting that information until they have.

If anyone has any information that might be helpful to the investigation, please contact Billy Mead at Film Star Rentals 617-268-8811 or Boston Camera at 617-277-2200.

I appreciate any help you guys might be able to give to these two rental companies as they try to sort out this unfortunate turn of events.

Thanks!

[Rick Darge]

Sons of assholes! I hope these people rot. At first I thought your camera was stolen Steve... Good thing. I'll keep my eyeballs out there on the West Coast

[Andrew Walker]

This is why I would never rent my gear out to productions that I wasn't present on. But I guess rental houses have no choice.

[Jarred Land]

Bad news.. email me the info when you get it Steve so I can make sure its in our system.

[Kelly]

Hi Steve, we will be sure to put a red flag on that serial number. If you have any further information, feel free to send it to kelly - at - red - dot - com.

[David Birdy]

Jarred,

Any chance RED can incorporate a key code for future upgrades?

Just thinking about a way to combat this for the future!

Thanks
Dave

P.S.
Nice touch adding the decorations on the REDUSER banner!!!

[Steve Sherrick]

This is why I would never rent my gear out to productions that I wasn't present on. But I guess rental houses have no choice.

Rental companies do their best to make sure this doesn't happen and I'm sure they covered themselves as best they could. Looks like this might have been one of those times when everything checked out, and no flags went up. And then they got blindsided.

I hear ya though Andrew. It's another reminder that there are people out there with bad intentions and you have to cover all your bases or something like this can happen. A tough world we live in.

[Steve Sherrick]

Bad news.. email me the info when you get it Steve so I can make sure its in our system.

Will do. These were not my cameras, but it's a pretty tight community here in Boston and I will help in any way I can.

Thanks Jarred!

[Steve Sherrick]

Hi Steve, we will be sure to put a red flag on that serial number. If you have any further information, feel free to send it to kelly - at - red - dot - com.

Thanks Kelly!

[Leo Ticheli]

I have a few questions:

Why didn't the rental companies post this information themselves?

Were proper references checked out? Trade, Bank, Personal?

Why can't we have more information on the renters? Name of company, stated location, personal names?

Has the original term of rental expired? In other words, are we absolutely certain the equipment has been stolen or could this be a communications break-down?

The more we know, the more the Red community may be able to help.

Best regards,

Leo

[Rick Darge]

I don't understand what someone is going to do with a stolen Red.. Don't they know that this is the REDmafia they are messing around with???

[Steve Sherrick]

Leo,

I'm sure you will hear from the rental companies themselves. I have been asked to make an initial post to the Reduser community as they are sorting out all of the details. I have a bit more of a presence here in the forum and I am trying to help them out.

I can not say exactly what processes were carried out in terms of background checks, but because both companies have a very good reputation in Boston and beyond, I would think an honest effort was made to verify renter's information. But I don't have all of the facts on this.

I do not want to mention the production company that rented the gear or their location for a number of reasons.

1. I want to make sure that the information I have been provided is accurate.
2. The rental companies are comfortable releasing the name of the production company.
3. See next comment.

From what I have been told, the original term of rental has not expired. There are several reasons why the rental companies have come to the conclusion that the gear has been stolen. There has been very little indication that this could be a communications break-down. However, I am never one for rushing to judgment until all of the facts have been collected and an accurate picture can be painted.

I will provide another update with any new information that is available and/or you will hear from the rental companies themselves. Like I said, I'm just trying to help them get the word out there just in case anyone might have heard something and could help them out.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Don't they know that this is the REDmafia they are messing around with???

So like if I finds these guys... I should break their legs, boss?


Sad, sucky news. Most likely the gear is on its way to Brazil or the middle east.

[ericyoung]

Still kinda wierd though, as it's easy for RED to deny further firmware upgrades to the stolen camera serial numbers or even to disable them (albeit with a small but finite risk of causing problems for existing legit owners).

What happened with the other cases of stolen cameras mentioned on this forum? At least one was a miscommunication false alarm.

Just wondering...

[ericyoung]

On a related note:

Where apart from my delivery note, do I find the serial number of my EVF? It doesn't seem to be obvious anywhere on the EVF body.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it under the rubber sleeve for the EVF focus ring. Shame it's just a sticker and not engraved though.

http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=21390

[Harry Clark]

That really sucks.
I suffered a major theft back in June, when a PA took the cube truck home rather than parking it in a garage in Manhattan. The thieves followed him home an waited for the wee hours, when they slipped in via the cab and took lenses, Pro-35, HDX-900 and O'Connor 25-75.
Eventually I was made whole, but boy was it stressful!
Steve, feel free to put the folks at Boston Camera in touch with me. The NYPD has a task force assigned to this specific crime, which has flared up again in recent years. I'm sure the detectives that I dealt with would be very interested in sharing info with their counterparts in Boston. Not sure if they are related but let's help the police on this one if we can.
Cheers,
Harry

[Steve Sherrick]

Harry,

Thanks. I will mention this to both companies. If possible Harry, can you PM me the best contact info for you. Much appreciated!

[Rick Darge]

So like if I finds these guys... I should break their legs, boss?


Sad, sucky news. Most likely the gear is on its way to Brazil or the middle east.

I think a nice pair of cement shoes would be cleaner :shiftyph34r:

[Christian Munoz D]

Hi Steve,

Christian here, from Equilibrio Films.

I will pass the info to our clients and collaborators here in Western Mass!

[Peter Majtan]

Just an idea. I think it would be possible to include a serial number check during firmware upgrade and disable cameras on the "RED" list. This way with the next Build they would try to load on the camera it will turn it into a piece of useless aluminum. This should be rather easy... Brent?

:) Peter

[Steve Sherrick]

Not a bad idea Peter.

[Steve Sherrick]

Hi Steve,

Christian here, from Equilibrio Films.

I will pass the info to our clients and collaborators here in Western Mass!

Thanks Christian!

[Rick Darge]

Has anyone figured out how to install a LOWJACK into a Red yet? I haven't really looked into, but it would be a great idea.

[Vinit Borrison]

Something we do when we rent cameras is charge COD with companies we've never worked with before. This includes big companies we know by reputation. Helps avoid situations like this....

[Curran Giddens]

wholly crap!

this hits too close to home. most of my rentals come from Boston.

I had a RED 18-50 zoom lens stolen from a set in Boston back in June. What a major hassle.

at least the REDs are no longer on backorder. I hope everything gets replaced ASAP....

[Leo Ticheli]

What are the most common danger signs that a renter may be a thief?

It seems there are so many ways to check references, unless the renter is using ID theft as part of the scheme; then the references would all check out and there would be two victims, the rental house and the legitimate company who's ID was stolen.

What was the method used in this case?

Best regards,

Leo

[Zac C]

This sucks steve, From how little i've talked to billy, he sounds like an awesome guy, with a great company,

Hopefully this all gets figured out, its not like there are more than 6k RED cameras out, they can't hide forever

[Johann Schulz]

I believe the R1 bodies will be the easiest to find and the hardest to hide, not that any part of this bummer is easy. #4452 and ? Please post the other # ASAP. The world is so small nowadays, with this planned thievery, maybe they're already on a boat to China. Well, Red's here too, and I'm not on a lot of shoots, but I'll be peeling my eyes for you.

I don't actually condone violence, however, "Short sleeves or long sleeves?"...

[Petr Dvorak]

I have a few questions:

Why didn't the rental companies post this information themselves?

.....

Leo


DTTO.
First thing which came to my mind.

[RivaiC]

To Mods, can we have a sticky thread for stolen RED cameras, so everyone is aware of it without having to use search engine, it will makes it easier to find it one place, makes an update if there's changes or whatever.

Just an idea, it will help everyone to keep track on this stuff...is this possible ? Of course, the information needs to be verify before putting it in the list.

PS. Jeff, i would break his fingers first and his nail and later his leg, after that send him to RED and Jim can do whatever he wants to this guy.

[Shawn Booth]

So then stolen cameras are left on older builds but still work...

Gotta have insurance...

[Dave Kudrowitz]

Boston Camera Rental's stolen Red One serial #1746
-including 320G Drive, EVF,LCD, 4 On Board batts and two chargers.
Cooke 18-100 serial# 789291

Thank you,
Dave Kudrowitz
Rule/BCRC

[Leo Ticheli]

Thank you, Dave,

We now have the serial numbers of both cameras.

Can you please post all the information about this?

What company name was used? Is it a case of ID theft?

Can you describe the person/persons who rented the gear?

Any other information that might help protect others?

Best regards,

Leo

[Clayton Talmon]

We'll keep an eye out over here.

They can run, but they can't hide!

[Brent@RED]

Just an idea. I think it would be possible to include a serial number check during firmware upgrade and disable cameras on the "RED" list. This way with the next Build they would try to load on the camera it will turn it into a piece of useless aluminum. This should be rather easy... Brent?

:) Peter

Interesting thought. We'll put our heads together here and see if there is something meaningful that we can do.

BC

[Peter Majtan]

Interesting thought. We'll put our heads together here and see if there is something meaningful that we can do.

BC

While we're talking about it - both RedCine and RedAlert could be made to refuse to open RAW footage from the "RED listed" cameras. Same for any R3D plugins. This way the "smart" thieves will be stuck with old Build and old SW. The dumb ones, well... :devil:

Or better yet - The SW could silently alert RED when it encounters the RAW footage from these cameras. Send over IP and computer MAC address - this would help with locating the camera. There are similar tools for Apple HW - especially laptops. They have proven to work rather efficiently...

:) Peter

[Peter Majtan]

The new Epics and Scarlets should include periodical check via WiFi (every time it encounters "free" WiFi access) to see if their serial number has been reported stolen or "lost". This is where GPS chip would make more sense then just Geo-Tagging...

[Vance Colvig]

I am still looking for the serial numbers on my Red drives and 7 inch monitor. Anybody find theirs yet??

[Derek Devine]

Interesting thought. We'll put our heads together here and see if there is something meaningful that we can do.

BC

Love the idea, but I feel sorry for the guy that buys this "used RED" off ebay
only to have it nuked because he/she didn't know it was stolen. I'd hate to see more victims of this crime. But, how cool would it be to create a camera that no one their right mind would want to steal.

[RivaiC]

Love the idea, but I feel sorry for the guy that buys this "used RED" off ebay
only to have it nuked because he/she didn't know it was stolen. I'd hate to see more victims of this crime. But, how cool would it be to create a camera that no one their right mind would want to steal.

Which stolen camera that was listed on ebay ? I'm not aware of this..will appreciate some links.

[ericyoung]

Love the idea, but I feel sorry for the guy that buys this "used RED" off ebay
only to have it nuked because he/she didn't know it was stolen. I'd hate to see more victims of this crime. But, how cool would it be to create a camera that no one their right mind would want to steal.

Which is why we need a central very sticky place to look for details and serial numbers of stolen RED and associated kit before buying anything related on Ebay!

[Robert P. Hogue]

I had this kind of unfortunate incident happen to me back in 2006 with my HVX-200, when I rented out my camera to a chap who had a local digital entertainment company going by the name of Iron Mountain Entertainment Group. His phone calls went unanswered, and I reported the camera as stolen. About a month later, I get a call from the police that they got my camera back from him - after he used it to film his sick pleasures rather than a public service advertisement for the local Rotary Club. It turns out the insurance certificate he presented me was a forgery. Sadly, he was acquitted on a technicality, and he's still out there in the Vancouver area. I got my camera back, but sadly the P2 cards were retained as evidence.

My advice is to ask for a security deposit, and ensure it clears the bank, or else take something like a passport or other form of secure ID as security until the goods are returned. It also does not hurt to phone the insurance broker on the certificate to verify its authenticity.

[Brent J. Craig]

I am curious why the rental house would consider the gear stolen if the return date hasn't been missed yet?

Also why would someone choose to order lower-end gear like Zeiss primes instead of more valuable stuff if they were planning to steal it?

There was a great thread a few months ago about the possibility of building theft protection into a camera. Can anyone dig it up?

[Anthony Gratl]

I got my camera back, but sadly the P2 cards were retained as evidence.


you should be able to get them back if he was acquitted on a technicality and the crown declines to retry......

[Derek Devine]

Which stolen camera that was listed on ebay ? I'm not aware of this..will appreciate some links.

hypothetical

[Steve Sherrick]

I am curious why the rental house would consider the gear stolen if the return date hasn't been missed yet?

Also why would someone choose to order lower-end gear like Zeiss primes instead of more valuable stuff if they were planning to steal it?

There was a great thread a few months ago about the possibility of building theft protection into a camera. Can anyone dig it up?

More details will be revealed when appropriate I'm sure. Part of the reason for not posting too much detail about the people who rented is that technically the return date has not been reached, but let's just say that there are circumstances which leave little doubt of what happened. I'm going to leave it up to Billy from Film Star and Dave from Rule/Boston Camera to take it from here.

They can provide follow-up and perhaps provide the community with any new information that might surface.

I appreciate any help you guys may provide to them, as they are both good companies here in Boston and really have embraced the Red camera.

Thanks!

[Peter Majtan]

If anyone buys $20K+ camera from Ebay, or anywhere else for that mater, without checking with RED and getting it re-certified - they are asking for troubles IMHO... At the very least they should check (and verify) original purchase documents and invoices from RED.

[Scott Roberts]

Sucks. I hope they get their stuff back . . . before the Red Mafia gets 'em!

[HyderBilgrami]

It is sad .. that is why I am not comfortable to rent my RED to unknown party .. oh its the only thing I love apart from my family .. inseparable :)

[Jon Schellenger]

You can be damn sure I will keep a look out for your stuff. I am sorry that happened to you. Lets nail those bastards! I have zero tolerance for that crap.

If we can help down here in Florida, please contact us.

[(= Andrew =)]

there have been some cheap phones like the fire fly from at&t they were baby phones for kids and parents could go on line and locate the the phone usually in the child's pocket and find the kid in any given situation. that little GPS chip is stuck in the phone to provide that that sevice. hint hint on a new optional feature-is it possible to stick those things in the camera and when ever you want to go on line and locate the thing it gives you the location and eh hopefully an option to disable tha camera from further use until reactivated by the owner??? then sue the donkey-holes that stole it? hmmmmm?

[Richard Andrewski]

Where's Billy Mead's comment on all this? Haven't seen any posts by Billy in a long time...

[Andy Dunn]

Thanks for everyone's patience in getting the details out about the theft of our RED One camera package. Everything takes a little longer around the holidays. On the positive side, we own more than one RED camera so we are still renting. We appreciate everyone keeping their eyes open for our stuff, but, more important, we hope that some details will prevent it happening to others.

First, what was take:

RED One serial# 1746
includes: CF Module, Base Production Pack, RED Viewfinder, RED LCD Monitor, Element Technica Video Breakout box, Element Technica EVF Support Bracket

Cooke 18-100 Lens serial# 789291

Also stolen:
320GB RED Hard Drive, 4 RED Camera Batteries, 2 RED Battery Chargers, A&J Cases with BOSTON CAMERA engraved on the valance plus cables and accessories

2 Film Tools Car Mounts, 1 large 3 suction mount and one single car mount


Some details of what happened that might help to prevent it happening to someone else.
The equipment was being rented by a new client who called themselves B and H Films although on some of the paperwork it also appeared as Band H films. The names given for the Rental Application were Rich Robinson and his partner Rachel Robinson. *They were in town to do a T-Mobile spot, and they hired 3 locals over Craig's list as Production Assistants. Their insurance certificate was checked and valid. They listed one of the local PA's hired as well as another local Rental House as references. Since both were part of this job, they were able to corroborate a relationship with the client.

All new clients are COD. The Production Assistants came in on Wednesday December 24th to pick up the equipment. Since they are local crew, they were known by the employees. One of them had a check from the company which did not draw any red flags and they left with the equipment and met two other people identifying themselves as Nick and Christina in another town who took possession of the equipment. One of the local crew members had previously met Nick and Christina when he was hired for this spot so still no red flags. He described them as both African American in their Late 20's or early 30's, driving a Red Pontiac Vibe with North Carolina plates.

We were contacted by one of the local Production Assistants on Saturday December 27th. This was the scheduled shoot day and only the local crew members appeared on location. Since then we have been in contact with the police, insurance companies, everyone involved and other local contacts trying to put all the details together. The job was scheduled to return on Monday December 29th and, of course, did not.

[Pierce Cook]

That's nuts... they sure went to a lot of trouble to make it look legit.

Curious - Did anyone contact T-Mobile to see if they had anything to say about doing a spot?



I live and do a lot of work in South/North Carolina - eyes and ears are open.

Alas - Happy New Year : )

[Leo Ticheli]

Thanks for everyone's patience in getting the details out about the theft of our RED One camera package. Everything takes a little longer around the holidays. On the positive side, we own more than one RED camera so we are still renting. We appreciate everyone keeping their eyes open for our stuff, but, more important, we hope that some details will prevent it happening to others.

First, what was take:

RED One serial# 1746
includes: CF Module, Base Production Pack, RED Viewfinder, RED LCD Monitor, Element Technica Video Breakout box, Element Technica EVF Support Bracket

Cooke 18-100 Lens serial# 789291

Also stolen:
320GB RED Hard Drive, 4 RED Camera Batteries, 2 RED Battery Chargers, A&J Cases with BOSTON CAMERA engraved on the valance plus cables and accessories

2 Film Tools Car Mounts, 1 large 3 suction mount and one single car mount


Some details of what happened that might help to prevent it happening to someone else.
The equipment was being rented by a new client who called themselves B and H Films although on some of the paperwork it also appeared as Band H films. The names given for the Rental Application were Rich Robinson and his partner Rachel Robinson. *They were in town to do a T-Mobile spot, and they hired 3 locals over Craig's list as Production Assistants. Their insurance certificate was checked and valid. They listed one of the local PA's hired as well as another local Rental House as references. Since both were part of this job, they were able to corroborate a relationship with the client.

All new clients are COD. The Production Assistants came in on Wednesday December 24th to pick up the equipment. Since they are local crew, they were known by the employees. One of them had a check from the company which did not draw any red flags and they left with the equipment and met two other people identifying themselves as Nick and Christina in another town who took possession of the equipment. One of the local crew members had previously met Nick and Christina when he was hired for this spot so still no red flags. He described them as both African American in their Late 20's or early 30's, driving a Red Pontiac Vibe with North Carolina plates.

We were contacted by one of the local Production Assistants on Saturday December 27th. This was the scheduled shoot day and only the local crew members appeared on location. Since then we have been in contact with the police, insurance companies, everyone involved and other local contacts trying to put all the details together. The job was scheduled to return on Monday December 29th and, of course, did not.

Firstly, I'm very sorry for your loss; I hope you are made well and the miscreants are caught and justice served.

Now I must say that your assertion of "no red flags" leaves me to conclude that you are much more naive than I.

Crew hired via Craig's List? What legitimate production company does that? To me that's a major red flag. Don't production companies use professional forums and personal endorsements from other companies to search for crew? At least that's my experience.

Did you check any references other than the circular chain of local crew, none of whom had prior experience with the "company?" Did you check with any other rental house? If not, why not?

I'm assuming the check you received is no good and that you failed to call the bank to verify the account. Even a retailer would have required a driver's license to accept a check. Sounds like you did not even meet the renter in person. Wow.

Finally, your comment about everything taking longer around the holidays is quite curious; if my camera had been stolen, I would have been all over the forums giving as much detail as possible to the community.

I'm interested in the insurance certificate; you say it was checked and was valid. What does that mean? Is it ID theft? What exactly did the issuing company say?

I hope this does not sound harsh, it's not my intention at all; I just find it quite surprising that a rental company would fail to see so many red flags.

I wish you a new year filled with legitimate clients!

Best regards,

Leo

[Matthew Rogers]

Crew hired via Craig's List? What legitimate production company does that? To me that's a major red flag. Don't production companies use professional forums and personal endorsements from other companies to search for crew? At least that's my experience.

Actually, Craigslist can be a pretty good place to get crew. I've been hired as a PA a couple of times a few years ago for out of town companies for shows on Discovery and Nat. Geo. I've also been hired as a camera op for a show on CMT through it. That said, there can been so crap jobs offered. Of course, I've always been able to do research on the production company and they've always wanted references.

Of course, Tennessee is far different than NYC or LA when it comes to craigslist.

Matthew

[Noah Kadner]

Um yeah- I haven't been on a shoot recently that didn't involve Craigslist in some way or another.

Noah

[Leo Ticheli]

Hi Noah! Happy New Year!

Perhaps I've been missing a lot of work!

When I've used Craig's List to advertise real estate, all I've gotten are Nigerian scam replies. I did get a very good figure model from one Craig's List ad, so I can't say it's all bad.

I still believe a red flag should have been raised over the Craig's List involvement in this particular case.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Kevin Wild]

As a Red owner in North Carolina (and knowing all of the other RED owners around central NC), we'll keep an eye out, too.

Hopefully these guys will be found.

Good luck.

Kevin

[Elijah Kelley]

:angry02:
An optional key code sounds great. And if the RED is rented the renter could call the rental house for the key code on a daily basis. Of course the codes would be user defined. Maybe? Just to piggy back off the earlier thought of a key code. A useful deterrent I'm sure. :ph34r:

[Andrae Palmer]

Some details of what happened that might help to prevent it happening to someone else.
The equipment was being rented by a new client who called themselves B and H Films although on some of the paperwork it also appeared as Band H films. The names given for the Rental Application were Rich Robinson and his partner Rachel Robinson. *They were in town to do a T-Mobile spot, and they hired 3 locals over Craig's list as Production Assistants. Their insurance certificate was checked and valid. They listed one of the local PA's hired as well as another local Rental House as references. Since both were part of this job, they were able to corroborate a relationship with the client.

All new clients are COD. The Production Assistants came in on Wednesday December 24th to pick up the equipment. Since they are local crew, they were known by the employees. One of them had a check from the company which did not draw any red flags and they left with the equipment and met two other people identifying themselves as Nick and Christina in another town who took possession of the equipment. One of the local crew members had previously met Nick and Christina when he was hired for this spot so still no red flags. He described them as both African American in their Late 20's or early 30's, driving a Red Pontiac Vibe with North Carolina plates.

We were contacted by one of the local Production Assistants on Saturday December 27th. This was the scheduled shoot day and only the local crew members appeared on location. Since then we have been in contact with the police, insurance companies, everyone involved and other local contacts trying to put all the details together. The job was scheduled to return on Monday December 29th and, of course, did not.

Wow these thieves are professionals. They've probably worked at a rental company before. They sure seem to know the rental/production process in and out. This is interesting.

[Dominik Muench]

there have been some cheap phones like the fire fly from at&t they were baby phones for kids and parents could go on line and locate the the phone usually in the child's pocket and find the kid in any given situation. that little GPS chip is stuck in the phone to provide that that sevice. hint hint on a new optional feature-is it possible to stick those things in the camera and when ever you want to go on line and locate the thing it gives you the location and eh hopefully an option to disable tha camera from further use until reactivated by the owner??? then sue the donkey-holes that stole it? hmmmmm?


I agree completely, GPS tracking for expensive cars and equipment is definitely on the rise and would be a great feature indeed.

Alternatively, a little bomb that can be activated via a phone call which will blow up the camera would be fun...Dial 1900-YOUR-RED-SERIAL and blow those stealing thieves to the moon....but then...could i really hurt my RED ? :nerd:

[Petros Nousias]

In this case a sony executive could dial 1900-(1-5000) and blow up all existing red ones... interesting...

[Joe Penna]

Wow these thieves are professionals. They've probably worked at a rental company before. They sure seem to know the rental/production process in and out. This is interesting.Yeah, I talked to the scammer. He was really knowledgeable on the RED and many aspects of production.

[Andrew Ravani]

Sorry to hear about this - and I agree - it sounds like at least a semi - pro attempt at theft with the suspects certainly having some rental house experience. That equipment is almost certainly out of the Northeast by now - probably back below the Mason Dixon.

As for Craigslist, Mandy, et al. ... I have yet to be on a set here in NYC or in LA where at least some facet of the crew didn't come from CL. Yeah, most of the work there is what you get after someone has exhausted their friends and networks - but some of it leads to further networking with great professionals (and others are obviously total bag jobs that you are lucky to not have to tackle the producer and beat your money out of them for). I even got my first hand at a RED through craigslist (guy was posting his rental through a local rental house - a great experience - but they called our broker, checked our references, etc.)

Lets hope these clowns get some new bracelets and a wee domicile sometime in the next few weeks, and the equipment finds its way home without harm.

[Steve Sherrick]

Yeah, I talked to the scammer. He was really knowledgeable on the RED and many aspects of production.

Just so no one gets confused about Joe's post, he was going to be hired on as a Red DIT for this gig and that's how he had contact with the scammers. Don't want anyone to associate Joe with the scammers. :)

[Leo Ticheli]

Yeah, I talked to the scammer. He was really knowledgeable on the RED and many aspects of production.

Did you talk to him in person or via phone?

Can you provide any information that might be helpful?

I'm still surprised that only very basic information has been posted about this and no questions I've put forth have been answered, such as the validity or information on the COD check. Even posting a picture of the signature might jog someone's memory.

Even with thousands out there, Red still makes a splash and the serial numbers might well be noted by every tech, assistant, and operator.

The cameras can't be updated unless a real owner downloads the software; a low rev software Red would really call attention to itself as time goes by.

No rental house can use the camera, so it may well be destined for someone shooting their own material, quite likely something in the adult field.

I guess it could have been stolen by someone thinking they could flip it on eBay or Craig's List, but that could quickly invite scrutiny from the authorities.

Whatever the real story, I remain curious that all available information has not been released by the injured parties.

Hope it all works out!

Best regards,

Leo

[Joel Kaye]

No rental house can use the camera, so it may well be destined for someone shooting their own material, quite likely something in the adult field.

I thought the same thing. But it could be any indie filmmaker. They know enough to know it'll be tough to sell. If they own one camera they could get firmware updates.

Hopefully they'll make a mistake somewhere and get caught. RED is a small world.

[david farland]

....... We'll put our heads together here and see if there is something meaningful that we can do.
BC

Sounds like microdotting would be good for Red products.

The Hire/Rental Industry Association here are pushing this at the moment. See here...http://www.crimestoppers.com.au/Crime-Stoppers-backs-high-tech-micro-dot-DNA/default.aspx

I own a Subaru and when they decided to microdot their latest models, thefts dropped dramatically overnight.

Here's an example....
http://www.datadothb.com.au/businesskits.html

Cheers,

Dave

[Brent J. Craig]

Sounds like microdotting would be good for Red products.

I can't see how ID labels that can only be read by microscope could possibly be useful. What am I missing here?

[david farland]

I can't see how ID labels that can only be read by microscope could possibly be useful. What am I missing here?
It's a deterent that tells a thief and buyer that all your kit is traceable. If you try and sell the individual items, it just increases the their risk of being discovered. As long as you own it, use it, hire it, the kit is no longer anonmyous and can be traced if suspected. You're now trading in very identifable parts which increases the risk of the handler being caught or having to return the goods. This reduces the appeal of trading in Red gear.
It's simple really and why when products introduce it, that thiefs dramatically fall. When Subaru introduced it they got a 95% reduction in vehicles stolen by professional thieves. Buyer and seller will be more aware and be less inclined to deal in this equipment.
Dave,

[Alexis Vanier]

I love the idea of a very hard to remove micro-label. However, I think we can still see here that deterrence is insufficient. There are about 5000 REDs out there and about 10% of their owners and users internationally know each other on a first name basis as well as 'meet' on a weekly basis (daily for some) online. How much harder can you make it to fence a given piece of gear?!?

Still, it was stolen and very probably sold.

(Who in their right mind buys a stolen RED anyway?!?)

I would tend to agree that RED could implement and market a service for integrated anti theft tracking system and/or remote locking. Something low level, which essentially brick-locks the camera unless unlocked by RED.

I've seen something similar on some HP tape libraries (LTO jukeboxes :shifty: ). If you lost the admin password to your device, the manufacturer had a time of day based rotating code lock that could override security.

Anyway, best of luck with the lawless and insurance. :watsup:

Happy new year as well. :biggrin:

[John Redfern]

While I would like to see as much as possible done to minimise or prevent equipment theft, some of the suggestions, like auto blocking, time bombs and auth codes, are just the very things that might malfunction away from base on a shoot and cause mayhem. No one would want that. It's bad enough when software licencing malfunctions at a time when tech support is unavailable.

Renting is no different to selling on credit account. You put into place all the normal checks and you make a valued judgement. It is always easy, after the event for someone else - with 20/20 hindsight - to criticize that judgement.

As a purchaser/hirer I've often been most grateful to the company who has trusted me at face value for an urgent transaction rather than the delay full checks might have taken. It is a business decision and a risk that all businesses are aware of. There has to be an element of trust in all dealings.

Mind you, I am trusting and in a great many years in business, I've never been seriously caught out. Having said that, if someone steals 2772 (I don't even let anyone else touch it let alone hire it) I will certainly call in the Red heavies :)

John

[Vladimir Eugene]

the insurance cleared? Does that mean that the equipment is covered and insurance will reimburse you? Or was that part ultimately fake as well?

A check was involved? Was it a check from a real bank? A forgery, or complete photoshop type?

Sorry to hear about your theft, sending a familiar face with legit appearing paperwork, for a good sounding job would have probably fooled a lot of us.

[Peter Majtan]

Here's a (compromise) proposal:

RED could built-in a firmware "time-lock" that can be ACTIVATED/DEACTIVATED by the user with complex SW key on a dedicated SD (not CF) card, that would disable the camera. Here is how it could work:

1. Unless the owner activates it - business as usual (and camera is UNPROTECTED). This is for those paranoid that this could fail during crucial shoot...
2. Inserting the dedicated SD card before booting will add to the UI an option to ACTIVATE/DEACTIVATE the "time-lock"
3. Owner can in the UI select the time period (or # of boots, etc...) after which the camera will lock - unless the dedicated SD card is inserted.
4. There could also be an option that the camera will simply not boot without a "key" SD card in place (I haven't seen anyone using the SD slot anyway).

The key for this to work will be to make sure the owner takes the SD card out of the slot after each shoot and stores it away from the camera gear (in a wallet for example - or in that RED bling Jim has rendered recently :) ).

When You renting to someone You know and trust - You can simply give them the SD card (along with appropriate handling instructions), or set a conservative # of boots (or time period).

When You renting to a "new face" - You keep the SD card and set less conservative # of boots (or time period).

The time period will highly depend on the RED's ability to include an internal clock. When reset (by removing the dedicated "watch" battery, etc...) - it activates the camera lock until the SD card is inserted. A "low-battery" warning for the "watch" battery will also prevent an accidental lock due to discharge of the battery. Canon's cameras have this built-in.

When combined with an "ID code" embedded in the RAW files (and the SW solution I was proposing earlier) along with the geo-tagging GPS chip - it will make the camera pretty much worthless for steeling.

Just one more thing: The SD card will be generated by each individual owner on his PC (therefore one could easily generate a new one if the SD card is lost). The PC SW will also allow a completely new SD security card to be generated once the camera is unlocked after the SD card loss - this would prevent anyone who "find" the old SD card to use it with the camera...

Off course RED could have a (highly secured) MASTER SD card SW - that could generate a master SD card for each individual camera based on its serial number, that would unlock the camera in case that the owner has lost both his SD card and the PC...

Just my two pesos...

:) Peter

[Peter Majtan]

PS: You could call the SD card "RED Key" as the camera won't start without it... :)

[Kwan Khan]

Humm Nice

[Curran Giddens]

PS: You could call the SD card "RED Key" as the camera won't start without it... :)

Brilliant! :sorcerer:

[Peter Majtan]

Here is a sample BOOT SEQUENCE:

http://www.derylgroup.com/downloads/DERYL/RED/RED%20Key%20Boot%20Sequence.jpg

Feel free to comment on this - we can improve it together...

Brent - of course I give my full permission for this to be used FOC by RED...

:) Peter

[Steve Sherrick]

Very interesting Peter. My guess is you will get some resistance based on people being paranoid. They will be nervous about number of boots, especially if that camera has any of the boot issues that have been known to happen. But I think your overall concept is good, and I do think anything that can be done to deter theft without potentially hurting the honest clients is a good thing.

I remember way back in the days when I did valet parking, there was a pro athlete who used to come in with a Viper and it had a special key that looked like a mini credit card. That had to be inserted for the car to start. He told me once that if I lost the card, he'd have to take me out back and kick my ass. I never did lose the card. :-)

[Peter Majtan]

PS: Brent - if I had a RED-SDK (not the R3D-SDK), I would happily write the code myself - including the SW to generate the RED-Key SD cards...

In case You guys are flat-out... :innocent:

:) Peter

[Peter Majtan]

Very interesting Peter. My guess is you will get some resistance based on people being paranoid. They will be nervous about number of boots, especially if that camera has any of the boot issues that have been known to happen.

This is precisely why there is the option to ACTIVATE / DEACTIVATE the RED-Key functionality - hence the first boot question whether it is (user) activated. When not activated and no RED-Key SD card in the camera - the camera will just work "as usual", albeit unprotected... :devil:


But I think your overall concept is good, and I do think anything that can be done to deter theft without potentially hurting the honest clients is a good thing.

I remember way back in the days when I did valet parking, there was a pro athlete who used to come in with a Viper and it had a special key that looked like a mini credit card. That had to be inserted for the car to start. He told me once that if I lost the card, he'd have to take me out back and kick my ass. I never did lose the card. :-)

Thanks. I hope RED makes this happen...

:) Peter

[Peter Majtan]

Also - if the camera is on rental and the # of boots is getting close to comfort level (due to failed boots or what ever...) - the # of boots could be reset with the RED-Key SD card in the camera via the added security submenu. If the camera is going on a remote location (without easy access to the owner), the owner could issue a "temporary emergency RED-Key SD card" that can be used X number of times (owner programmable) to reset the # of boots...

:) Peter

[Steve Sherrick]

Also - if the camera is on rental and the # of boots is getting close to comfort level (due to failed boots or what ever...) - the # of boots could be reset with the RED-Key SD card in the camera via the added security submenu. If the camera is going on a remote location (without easy access to the owner), the owner could issue a "temporary emergency RED-Key SD card" that can be used X number of times (owner programmable) to reset the # of boots...

:) Peter
So, let's say I rent the camera to a new client who checks out okay but I want to protect myself just in case. They are going to be shooting in the Arctic. I provide the client with an SD card that I program to allow the client to reset the # of boots 3 times. I have to hope that three things happen.

1. They don't lose the SD card.
2. They don't surpass the amount of resets
3. They don't get annoyed by the whole process.

Here are my arguments in your favor Peter.

1. If you lose the the battery plate (cradle, belt pack, etc) and that's your only source of power, the camera won't start either. So, crew needs to be responsible for making sure they don't lose it.

2. I suppose extreme conditions could affect the # of boots or a whole number of reasons for why the camera might be rebooted often. I guess you go with a number you feel comfortable with.

3. If they are getting great images, I'll deal with them being a little annoyed. Hopefully the quality they are getting outweighs the inconvenience of this protection device.

Now the reasons against.

1. The card is small, could easily be misplaced. If the client is stuck out in the middle of nowhere and they happen to lose it, and the camera won't start, uh oh, very unhappy client. And the client is always right.

2. It could be tricky coming up with the right number of resets/boot cycles to allow. But I suppose experience will dictate this.

3. We want happy clients.

Overall, I think you have offered an intriguing solution. I would like to see a poll for this type of approach. I'm also curious about how the guys at Red feel about this.

[Peter Majtan]

Thanks Steve - great and valid feedback. I think that for the particular situation You have described - the owner could just DISABLE the RED-Key all together against a $17.5K security deposit (or any other amount decided by the owner). This would apply to all "paranoid" clients... :devil:


I would like to see a poll for this type of approach. I'm also curious about how the guys at Red feel about this.

You took those words out of my mouth...

After I see any feedback from RED I will set up the POLL myself - or anyone else feel free to do so...

:) Peter

[Steve Sherrick]

Thanks Steve - great and valid feedback. I think that for the particular situation You have described - the owner could just DISABLE the RED-Key all together against a $17.5K security deposit (or any other amount decided by the owner). This would apply to all "paranoid" clients... :devil:



You took those words out of my mouth...

After I see any feedback from RED I will set up the POLL myself - or anyone else feel free to do so...

:) Peter

Yes, I think the deposit is safest for the situation I described. But perhaps for those jobs that are more commonplace, your method works well. It's actually a very intriguing scenario for someone like me who doesn't rent out the camera without being on the set in some capacity. I actually would like this feature a lot because I would always have full control over it. For example, if I am out shooting something I could have it setup so that the camera is protected and if someone were to steal it from my car or whatever, it would only do them so well for a short period of time.

How robust would the protection be? In other words, if the thieves are savvy enough and know their way around all things computer related, would it be possible to deactivate this with a little know-how? Or could it be built in a way that is relatively bullet-proof?

[Peter Majtan]

Yes, I think the deposit is safest for the situation I described. But perhaps for those jobs that are more commonplace, your method works well. It's actually a very intriguing scenario for someone like me who doesn't rent out the camera without being on the set in some capacity. I actually would like this feature a lot because I would always have full control over it. For example, if I am out shooting something I could have it setup so that the camera is protected and if someone were to steal it from my car or whatever, it would only do them so well for a short period of time.

How robust would the protection be? In other words, if the thieves are savvy enough and know their way around all things computer related, would it be possible to deactivate this with a little know-how? Or could it be built in a way that is relatively bullet-proof?

Leo made a valid point on the other RED-THEFT thread - we have hijacked this thread, albeit with good intentions. Lets move this to a dedicated thread along with the POLL...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24399

Peter

[Steve Sherrick]

Leo made a valid point on the other RED-THEFT thread - we have hijacked this thread, albeit with good intentions. Lets move this to a dedicated thread along with the POLL...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24399

Peter

Good point, I kind of hijacked my own thread. I think it is wise to move this conversation elsewhere and let Film Star and Boston Camera update this with any pertinent information that might help the case.

[Peter Majtan]

Also - I have already asked the mods to move all the RED-Key (and other security suggestions) from this thread to the new one, in order to keep this one "clean" for follow-up on this particular theft...

Thanks MODS and sorry about the extra work...

Peter

[Billy Mead]

I appreciate beyond words reading your compassion.

I wanted to first thank Steve, Joe and the others that wasted no time in posting the details of the incident the minute word was out that we and Boston Camera had been hit. I was on the first day of my Christmas vacation at Disney with my family and had to make the decision to stay or return home. Of course there was nothing I could do if I had returned home so I decided to stay put. But this is the one time of the year I leave the computer at home or I would have posted sooner.

Can a theft be completely prevented? Or are incidents like this all part of the ebb and flow of life, lessons to be learnt, experiences gained? A little about us…

Film Star Rentals was a new start-up as of this last year that I founded out of a passion of filmmaking and a desire to return to where I left off many years ago. I got my start in the late 80’s down in Orlando when production was really starting to ramp up with the new studios that were being built at the time. But careers changes, even if only for awhile.

In 2000 I founded an online printing company that grew to be a decent size company that ranked in the top 400 worldwide. When I sold out my majority stake in 2007 I did a lot of soul searching and an analysis of the New England area to see if there was an opportunity to get back involved but also give back the many, many blessings I have been the recipient of over the years. At 41, I took a summer internship at a local production company, answering the phones and taking out the trash. Best summer I’ve had in years. While Film Star was never envisioned as a charity, I really did want to make accessible top-quality gear to independents and producers that needed it the most. I think we hit a nerve as from day one, the phones rang. And then we got a call last week.

The caller identified himself as Rachel Robinson from B&H Films in New York. They were shooting a spot in Boston for T-Mobile and he had a list from his DP to reserve. He emailed the list over and I provided a quote. We went back and forth and he actually removed a few items saying budget was a concern. He was very knowledgeable and pleasant. The required insurance was provided, the equipment was paid in advance and nothing stood out or seemed out of the ordinary. And I’m not defending that to anyone.

While we do not have anywhere near the experience that Rule/Boston Camera has, we have never been targeted like this and would never think to question a producer to the extent of asking for an agency referral. And that’s not going to change for me as 99.99% of the people in the world are not thieves and do not deserve to be treated as such. I have a hundred ‘would have/should have’ questions floating around in my head right now but I’m not going to take any blame or feel ANY negligence. I cannot believe that some people can sit in glass houses and question the fact that thefts happen every day, thousands of times, and are of no fault to the victims. I pray you do not find yourself in the same situation, feeling you have to defend your actions to your peers? I for one will not throw stones, you have my empathy in advance.

We have been advised since day one that releasing all information might hurt more than it can help and I’d be devastated if inaccurate or damaging information was released. No one got hurt and I thank God repeatedly for that. This is about nuts and bolts after all… really fucking cool (and expensive) nuts and bolts but in the end just a piece of cold metal with no heart, no soul and no feelings.

This hurts us… A lot. $125,000 in gear gone and the possibility insurance might not cover it because it’s ‘intentional fraud’. We were building our entire business model exclusively around the RED camera and it’s workflow. Film Star, along with the other companies here in Boston embrace the system and it’s possibilities and are trying to make the equipment available at an affordable price so one day everyone can put this bleeding-edge technology to work for their projects.

What will come of this is unknown but the discussions of security systems are very encouraging. Film Star will find a way to survive and I’ll get another camera here by the end of the month, no matter what it takes. And I really hope no one takes our reply out of context or hears any whining. I for one had an unforgettable Christmas watching my three year old little girl dance in the Magic Castle and talk face-to-face with Cinderella. I hope yours was as special.

Respectfully,
Billy

[ericyoung]

Great post Billy. No need to explain yourself, but thanks for elaborating. Sincerely hope the insurance doesn't weasel out of paying up. Good luck catching the thieves and recovering your equipment.

And best wishes for a successful 2009!

[Billy Mead]

Thank you Eric.

On a positive note we purchased two new complete RED Systems today and will be back very, very shortly with a new lower rate.

Base system will start at $400.00 with:

Red One Camera Body - PL lens Mount
Red CF Module
Red 8GB Compact Flash Card
EVF - Electronic View Finder, 5" arm, 2' cable
Focus Hook
AC Adapter
Body Cap
Case

Available well outfitted for $550-575.00. Mid week daily rate will be $375.00. We want start breaking down the price and allow as many people as possible to get time behind these incredible cameras. We're building our business model for independents around them.

Billy

[ericyoung]

Gotta say those rental rates sound too low - but appreciate you want it to be affordable to more people. Just make sure you make a reasonable profit. Everyone has to make a living too! :)

[David Wyatt]

I just posted the following link in the other stolen Red thread (there's beginning to be too many to keep up...maybe we need a separate sticky or even a forum?) - basically it's a subscription-free GPS tracker that you could conceal in your case and it's currently showing at CES (if anyone's down that way maybe they could find out details & pricing etc):

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/xact-trax-personal-tracking-device-requires-no-monthly-subscri/

Just imagine being able to catch someone red-handed with your camera (you'd have at least a good 10 minutes before the cops turned up :devil:)

p.s. I wonder if something like this might make your insurance slightly cheaper too (although the main motivation is still catching someone red-handed :wink:)?

[Billy Mead]

Yes Eric, on the surface it seems low but as a long term investment in getting the technology and work flow in the hands of the masses, I hope it pays off, even if it’s in different ways. We have to get people shooting here with the camera so it becomes more and more widespread. And so it has to be extremely affordable if it’s just going out on tests or personal shoots for ones reel. And if it is a working shoot, producers can be more competitive and get awarded more jobs. Between lower prices, seminars, contests and just general awareness we’d like to see the RED Cameras surpass our other camera rentals by summer.

And we always see lenses, lights, usually grip go out as well on the same ticket.
Billy

[Curran Giddens]

We have to get people shooting here with the camera so it becomes more and more widespread.

Don't forget the 25% film tax-credit for any production over $50k that spends 50% or more of their budget in Mass. Everyone should be coming here to shoot....

[Billy Mead]

In addition to the 25% film tax-credit, a 4 stage complex is in the development phase for South Boston, 3 miles from the airport, 5-star hotels & dining. The first stage, which is an existing space, will be available in March and the ground-up complex is now being fast-tracked for late 2009. Boston Studios will feature purpose-built stages, large scale rentals (10-ton trucks, camera cars), on-site set construction & storage, star transportation, screening theaters, post-production, retail…. This is not the proposed Plymouth Studios 40 miles south of the city but a private developer that has the funding in place now. (it’s actually across the street from my condo in Southie!).

It’s a very exciting time for Boston/New England and we grateful for the opportunity to be involved. Everyone will benefit tremendously from this and the other projects in the works

Regards,
Billy

[Andy Dunn]

Stolen 1746 returns to Boston!

Ok, hard to believe, but it is true (at least in part). The other day, a person walked into RED having just bought a camera from a person in Brooklyn, serial# 1746. Apparently they wanted RED to look it over and transfer the registration. Chad and Justin (thanks guys!) immediately called me up to confirm that it was not my intention to sell this camera.

Police were called in and I asked them to leave the camera with RED unless they needed it as evidence (the whole time crossing my fingers that they would agree to leave it). They did and RED shipped it back to me. Needless to say, the camera is very happy to be home with its two brothers (no I have not named them).

Unfortunately, the only thing brought in to RED and sent back to me was the body (with CF unit) and Element Technica breakout box but that is a big help. Hopefully more parts will find their way to their birth place and get a chance to reunite with the camera.

So a huge thank you to Chad, Justin and the rest of the RED team (you know who you are!) Great doing business with you.

[Dave Weber]

Nice. Congrats! :beer:

[Rick Darge]

That's awesome news man! Not so awesome for the guy who spent all that money on a hot camera but great to hear it made its way back to you. If it was a Sony, you would have never seen it again. Red, lets get those lowjacks installed in our Epic/Scarlets!

[Brian Harbauer]

Just an idea. I think it would be possible to include a serial number check during firmware upgrade and disable cameras on the "RED" list. This way with the next Build they would try to load on the camera it will turn it into a piece of useless aluminum. This should be rather easy... Brent?

:) Peter

Just a thought, if a crook has the camera and it gets disabled, he's just going to throw it away and then the chances of recovering will be even slimmer. If it's not disabled, he or someone will have to be using it, and then the chances of recovering it have a better chance. Aside from the fact that locks are for honest people.

[Brian Harbauer]

Stolen 1746 returns to Boston!

Ok, hard to believe, but it is true (at least in part). The other day, a person walked into RED having just bought a camera from a person in Brooklyn, serial# 1746. Apparently they wanted RED to look it over and transfer the registration. Chad and Justin (thanks guys!) immediately called me up to confirm that it was not my intention to sell this camera.

Police were called in and I asked them to leave the camera with RED unless they needed it as evidence (the whole time crossing my fingers that they would agree to leave it). They did and RED shipped it back to me. Needless to say, the camera is very happy to be home with its two brothers (no I have not named them).

Unfortunately, the only thing brought in to RED and sent back to me was the body (with CF unit) and Element Technica breakout box but that is a big help. Hopefully more parts will find their way to their birth place and get a chance to reunite with the camera.

So a huge thank you to Chad, Justin and the rest of the RED team (you know who you are!) Great doing business with you.

Great to hear the good news!

[Brent@RED]

Admittedly, no day at RED is even close to boring - but a Monday that had a stolen camera and Orange County's finest involved was pretty darn exciting!

Oh, and now you know why we NEVER do anything with a camera without the owner's permission :)

[ericyoung]

So pity the poor guy who lost his money buying it, and did they catch the fence and original thieves.

[Billy Mead]

Hmmm... I will check in with our detective and let him know your news. I wish we would have known when the buyers was there.. And congratulations.

Billy



Stolen 1746 returns to Boston!

Ok, hard to believe, but it is true (at least in part). The other day, a person walked into RED having just bought a camera from a person in Brooklyn, serial# 1746. Apparently they wanted RED to look it over and transfer the registration. Chad and Justin (thanks guys!) immediately called me up to confirm that it was not my intention to sell this camera.

Police were called in and I asked them to leave the camera with RED unless they needed it as evidence (the whole time crossing my fingers that they would agree to leave it). They did and RED shipped it back to me. Needless to say, the camera is very happy to be home with its two brothers (no I have not named them).

Unfortunately, the only thing brought in to RED and sent back to me was the body (with CF unit) and Element Technica breakout box but that is a big help. Hopefully more parts will find their way to their birth place and get a chance to reunite with the camera.

So a huge thank you to Chad, Justin and the rest of the RED team (you know who you are!) Great doing business with you.