Ask reduser.net: Would you shoot a feature this summer with red one?

[Roger Patronen]

I am shooting in spring are the camera's stable yet?

[Emanuel A.]

Not yet this summer. But there will be potential customers, no doubts here.

[Finner]

This is a tough one. I would say if your Director and DOP like the look of the RED and think the look will fit the story then go for it. Unfortunately we really don't have that much of an idea of "the look" of the Red. I feel it is too hard to judge the overall look of the RED from the short clips we have seen. I need to know a few things. What were your budget options for mediums (35mm,16mm, HD)? I would say if you were planning 16mm or HD then Red would probably be a much better decision. Red VS 35mm would be tougher, but you say your on a tight budget so the Red savings may be worth it along with the fact that probably a lot of interest will be generated in some of the first films shot with RED. Also if you can create a very new high quality look with the Red, that will be a big bonus.

My suggestion would be wait to find out more information and keep it on your list. If you can leave the decision of exactly what to shoot on till the last minute would probably be best.

[Dominic Jones]

Quickly assuming Red vs 35mm, financially the situation is fairly simple - you make a stock, dev and scanning cost saving by shooting with Red (a fairly large one), but you also take on board the extra risk of shooting with an emergent technology. So essentially you are "insuring" yourself against possible technical problems (which may, if severe, outweigh the cost gains in stock etc) by shooting 35mm.

So, in summary, 35mm is more expensive but safer, vs Red's cheaper but more risky (at this point) - you need to determine what you think the likelihood of any technical hiccups costing more than shooting 35mm is, and how much risk you are willing to accept.

In all seriousness, I think for a team experienced in digital post production, that was assuming a 4k/2k scan from 35mm anyway, shooting with Red adds little potential for problems (as you don't have to get very far down the line until you're back into your 35mm-originated workflow anyway) and therefore is probably a good call.

Artistically/logistically, you need to make sure that the DP is going to get enough time to test the new medium before getting onto set - I think this is the more realistic concern. I would have thought your DP will want to do a considerable amount of testing, both technical and artistic, before being confident about taking the camera into a live situation. So talk to your DP seriously about how much time he or she feels they will probably need to get to grips with the format/camera and only opt for a Red acquisition if you can comfortably guarantee that you will be able to get hold of one in time to allow for this testing before principal photography.

That's my 2c, at least...

[Gunleik Groven]

As for me, I tell everyone that I hope I have'er by this autumn, but then again I'm #930...

Gunleik

[donatello b]

spring ?? .. you did say TIGHT budget !! . IMO go for it ... simi plan for RED ( rental) and make sure you have a backup camera ( rental) in the budget (plan B) if you can't get a RED ... you should know by end of march of RED release date? ..find a rental house or persons that has a under # 50 reservation for rental ...
if you have a experienced DP .. they should get a general idea of camera 2 days testing .. 1 day if pushed .... shoot RAW ... again have a plan B

[Obin Olson]

Well for me, as soon as I get my dirty little hands on my Red I am shooting our feature thriller. no questions asked. but then again, I tend to be on the crazy side..built my own 22foot jib, have a design that I am using for a crazy cold lit soft box light and am going to make a metal halide "HMI" style light system..... not to mention the crazyness with the hvx200+redrock setup I shoot with right now!

If you have any people in your group that get strung out on stuff that's not "real" and fear strikes them hard when you try new things....wait wait wait ...Red is gonna ROCK, but I can tell you with certainty that you WILL have issues with lots of things RED, workflow bugs codec issues with 3rd party software/hardware etc..it's the nature of cutting edge IMHO.

[Mark L. Pederson]

We 100% expect to shoot a feature this summer with our RED ONE cameras.

Our last feature we shot was 2-perf 35mm with Russian cameras modified in Sweden - so, we are pretty fearless - "beta" or not - we will shoot - a low budget indie feature production is a GREAT TEST to see how the Red One holds up in various situations - 6 days a week - 12-13 hours a day, etc.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I beleive it was stated by the RED team that "early 2007" could technically mean May 31st., and that is for the RED camera #1...
For my camera I will not make any plans untill I know the first cameras are shipped and received. After all this is a huge task for the RED team, and although they would hate to admit it, you should calculate some delays - or get disappionted!

[Thom Steinhoff]

Planning to shoot June/July with Red. You just have to sleep with your fingers crossed. If it gets too close and they are not ready, then we'll make other plans. But for now--that's the plan.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

im dp on a indi $5mil picture shooting august/sept.. i am shooting on my red/ and renting superspeeds

[Tom Lowe]

im dp on a indie $5mil picture shooting august/sept.. i am shooting on my red/ and renting superspeeds

whoa... 5 mil? can you please kick me down a measly $200K of this so I can shoot my feature??? :cool:

the answer for me is no. i don't think everything will be in place for a summer shoot. too many questions. i really want to shoot a lot of remote-location overcranked stuff at 4K compressed, and right now, that would mean having to shoot to RAID. i've put off my feature until summer '08, partly due to the fact that RED is the only camera I want to shoot on. maybe by then all the post stuff and overcranking to an onboard recorder will be sorted out. Anyway, delivery dates on the RED are flexible, so I wouldn't count on anything this summer. These guys are trying to deliver a camera that is shocking in its technological advancements, so just by default you have to cut them some slack on when this baby will be delivered.

[Thom Steinhoff]

i really want to shoot a lot of remote-location overcranked stuff at 4K compressed, and right now, that would mean having to shoot to RAID.

I think you meant to say "uncompressed."

Tom, repeat after me:

"Redcode Raw is going to be amazing and there is no reason to even think of messing with a raid... Redcode raw is amazing and there is no reason to even think of messing with raid..."

Zakaree, do you expect to shoot RAW or Redcode Raw?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If RED delivers at NAB I wouldn't even blink.

[Tom Lowe]

I think you meant to say "uncompressed."

Tom, repeat after me:

"Redcode Raw is going to be amazing and there is no reason to even think of messing with a raid... Redcode raw is amazing and there is no reason to even think of messing with raid..."

Zakaree, do you expect to shoot RAW or Redcode Raw?

Wait a minute. Is there any way to shoot 4K (compressed or uncompressed) at 60fps without shooting to RAID? I understood that all 4K overcranking basically had to go "offboard"? Am I wrong?

[Thom Steinhoff]

Okay, you're right. I forgot you wanted to overcrank a lot and yes I think you are stuck with raids. Forgive my "scolding". Actually, this got me thinking of a new question that deserves it's own thread...

[Isa Totah]

It really depends. Summer is cutting it close. But as each milestone is met, everyone is getting more and more confident. I would say at a certain film budget level, the risk is offset by the advantages with Red in going early. For us, 35mm is easily within budget and no risks or no unknowns as we know exactly what we will get. Red obviously has some huge advantages as well as many unknowns. But, with each passing month, there will be more and more certainty especially if the camera can be tested in rigorous working conditions between now and this summer. I really would like to use it by summer and I'm hoping there's enough time to justify doing so.

[Billy Summers]

If available, I would shoot the hell out of Redcam. We are set to shoot a low budget feature in April, and in no way am I planning on shooting Red. However, if available, the Director and I have already decided that we'd definitely, be up to the challenge.:p ;)

[Jason Mitchell]

I've just signed on as the cinematographer for a feature this summer that I hope to have the Red in for. It's in July so I have hope the camera is here, but as I'm doing it as a favor, I have to weigh the possibility that my camera would be rented out to someone else.

But what I really want is to have it for my short, hopefully shooting in June, that I know will have a much more interesting look. And I have to parrot Obin's sentiment on moving off the HVX+Redrock cause I like to shoot in the dark.

Plus I had a great talk with the guys at AJA about cutting 2K material. They were helpful in sorting out some post-production workflow ideas. And they were hopeful to get their hands on Redcode to use as a cutting codec for a 4K offline in Final Cut or the like.

But the only thing stopping me from shooting with it is someone making me pay for it by renting it from me.

[Wade McDonald]

If RED ships at NAB, it's a very real possibility for my company. We've got two major shoots scheduled post-NAB -- a series pilot and a low-budget feature... and I've already got two budgets for each -- one with RED one without. I can't believe this would be a hard sell for a producer who's planning on CineAlta production already (like me) --

(1) it's higher-resolution than the Sony,

(2) SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than 35mm,

(3) the ease of using an offline/online post process with 4k means that something originally meant for a niche market festival/dvd release becomes viable for Digital Cinema projection -- and I don't have to make that decision until it's in the can.

(4) (last but not least) We get to use really nice motion picture glass -- and for those expensive specialty lenses that the DP wants for a single shot (like a fisheye or an extreme telephoto) we can use existing Nikon or Canon still lenses instead of renting Cine ones.

So yes, I definately plan on using RED asap.

[Michael Morlan]

I have just the one RED One reserved.

I would happily shoot a feature with RED One as long as I have a ready source of cross-rentals from other owner/operators - both as backups and when multiple cameras are needed on set.

Michael

[J. Bernard Vallon]

I'm working with a few people who are considering shooting RED features this summer...All depending on when the product ships. I'm working on a network of backups, but because they are small low budget projects, the possibility of shooting red makes the project possible.

[Roger Patronen]

Thank you everyone for your answers.