Youtube and their BS (Music Copyright)

[Andrew Walker]

So I'm not sure what the procedure is for telling on someone for using someone else's music on one of your videos is but someone just did that to me. Of course they do it to the only video that people must find so offensive, the Adams Arms Demo. The song was from the "Miami Vice" soundtrack and it was a re-editing version of the song. So it wasn't the original track unedited, I don't know if that makes any difference. But all the videos that I've posted on Youtube and elsewhere have tracks from a soundtrack and I know many of the people here that post videos also use soundtracks from movies or wherever. So my question is this, can anyone on Youtube just say that its their song and get it removed?

If it was the artist, which I highly doubt, then why not get free promotion of their music. Over the years since I started posting that timelapse stuff I do I have gotten hundreds of emails asking me what the name of the tracks were in the different videos. Now I wonder how many people have gone out and bought that soundtrack or just that track from hearing that information. So should I get a promotion fee from the artist that's making money from me putting their music in one of my videos. I don't think so. I'm just pissed that this has happened because I think its on the same level with people getting road rage against someone on the road and instead of just learning to calm down they call the cops and say the driver it drunk or waving a gun around. I wish they would show the user name of the person that filed the complaint so I could fight this head on and see if it was really the artist complaining. If it was really the artist I would shut my mouth and just change the song.

I opted to have the clip be silent until I figure out another way to deal with this. Of course its still the way I made it on my site.:shifty:

[Dylan Reeve]

I talked to a guy who works with YouTube on a broadcaster level (ie as a TV Network). YouTube has some insane content recognition systems. They are certainly able to 'fingerprint' music tracks, and can even do it with video (even video filmed off a TV). Content owners of identified material can then choose what action they want to take - which can include monetising that un-licensed content (ie. getting a cut of the ad revenue) or having it pulled from the site.

Under copyright law you're pretty much in the wrong. It's someone else's property - you're editing it doesn't change that. However there is wiggle room in the case of 'sampling' where a completely new work is created by repurposing parts of another.

Best bet would be to find free music to use instead. There's lot of Creative Commons music out there now.

[Andrew Walker]

I talked to a guy who works with YouTube on a broadcaster level (ie as a TV Network). YouTube has some insane content recognition systems. They are certainly able to 'fingerprint' music tracks, and can even do it with video (even video filmed off a TV). Content owners of identified material can then choose what action they want to take - which can include monetising that un-licensed content (ie. getting a cut of the ad revenue) or having it pulled from the site.

Under copyright law you're pretty much in the wrong. It's someone else's property - you're editing it doesn't change that. However there is wiggle room in the case of 'sampling' where a completely new work is created by repurposing parts of another.

Best bet would be to find free music to use instead. There's lot of Creative Commons music out there now.

Okay, so if they have this software that can fingerprint music and do all this stuff. Why was it that this one clip got picked and all the other ones are left alone. I know I'm in the wrong, if its the artist doing this but again...I highly doubt it.

[Dylan Reeve]

Okay, so if they have this software that can fingerprint music and do all this stuff. Why was it that this one clip got picked and all the other ones are left alone. I know I'm in the wrong, if its the artist doing this but again...I highly doubt it.

I can't explain that, I am not on the inside. I'd guess that content owners provide Youtube with content they want protected, YouTube 'fingerprints' it and looks for that content. When it's found the content owner in question may have the option about what action to take. But this is at least third-hand somewhat speculation on my part.

I just never use unlicensed music on anything I ever want anyone to see, it's just asking for trouble one way or another.

[Andrew Walker]

I can't explain that, I am not on the inside. I'd guess that content owners provide Youtube with content they want protected, YouTube 'fingerprints' it and looks for that content. When it's found the content owner in question may have the option about what action to take. But this is at least third-hand somewhat speculation on my part.

I just never use unlicensed music on anything I ever want anyone to see, it's just asking for trouble one way or another.

I understand why you don't use unlicensed music but I think your in the minority. Most of the little clips that I see around here, like people's DP reels and stuff like that have music which I would be very surprised was licensed.

[Gunleik Groven]

That doesn't really change things very much... No offense meant.

[Hans von Sonntag]

Andrew,

when using someone else work comercially - pictures or music - a license fee has to be paid. For private use or inhouse tests, eg. mood cuts or showreels, no license is needed. If you publish your showreel or any other commercially intended/produced work you have to pay a license fee. In your case you can be lucky if you don't get sued, regardless what the contend of your work is.

For commercials the advertising industry pays millions for licenses.

A question: Would you like it if someone else is stealing your film and use your shots for a corporate video?

Take it easy. Take the challenge and compose your own score.

Hans

[Joel Kaye]

I know I'm in the wrong, if its the artist doing this but again...I highly doubt it.

Would you care if some unknown band made a music video and took your video footage and used it in their music video without asking you? It's a copyright violation whether it's video or music being used without permission.

Your better bet is to go to one of indie music sites out there and ask an unsigned band for permission to use their music. They're the ones who need exposure - no big record label bands. They'll say yes if they aren't stupid.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't think there's anything else to be said on this topic... YouTube does have some pretty good content recognition. Additionally, they do screen videos randomly and allow for members to report copyright violations.

Just because a track has been re-edited, does not mean you get to use it without license. Your video was probably pulled because it was promoting a commercial product in addition to using an unlicensed audio track. Your video is on the Adams Arms site, I sincerely hope they are aware of the soundtrack situation. It can affect them too if word gets back to the content owner. In fact, they would be the ones targeted in a legal dispute over that video, becuase they couldn't deny the video promotes their product, on their site.

No disrespect meant here, and I enjoyed the Adams Arms demo greatly, but if it were my video and I were in this situation. I would be contacting Adams Arms and telling them that you need to replace the audio track. Grab some royalty free track to use.

Also be careful with royalty free music. Many royalty free pieces still have license agreements, some of which prohibit editing, or remixing.

[GlennChan]

Well the artists have moral rights too... they may not like their music being used in a certain way.

2- Just because other people do it doesn't make it right. (e.g. just because many people pirate audio/video doesn't make it right.)


So should I get a promotion fee from the artist that's making money from me putting their music in one of my videos.
So if I put an album onto bittorrent, should I receive a promotional fee for exposing so many people to that music? ;)


Breathe in... breathe out... relax and move on.

[Andrew Walker]

I don't think there's anything else to be said on this topic... YouTube does have some pretty good content recognition. Additionally, they do screen videos randomly and allow for members to report copyright violations.

Just because a track has been re-edited, does not mean you get to use it without license. Your video was probably pulled because it was promoting a commercial product in addition to using an unlicensed audio track. Your video is on the Adams Arms site, I sincerely hope they are aware of the soundtrack situation. It can affect them too if word gets back to the content owner. In fact, they would be the ones targeted in a legal dispute over that video, becuase they couldn't deny the video promotes their product, on their site.

No disrespect meant here, and I enjoyed the Adams Arms demo greatly, but if it were my video and I were in this situation. I would be contacting Adams Arms and telling them that you need to replace the audio track. Grab some royalty free track to use.

Also be careful with royalty free music. Many royalty free pieces still have license agreements, some of which prohibit editing, or remixing.

I told Adams Arms where the music had come from and that it was unlicensed, which could be a problem. So it was a risk that they took. But I guess I'll just have to come up with some other music or some ambient sounds over the video.

My complaint was more that the video was targeted because of its content. Not because it was a demo for a product. I only say that because some the people on here had a really big problem with how I showed the weapons and thought that me making the video was an act against humanity.

And on the subject of how I would feel if someone else was using my footage in one of their videos. Of course I would be mad. Again I know that I am in the wrong. I just wanted to vent.

[Dylan Reeve]

For private use or inhouse tests, eg. mood cuts or showreels, no license is needed. If you publish your showreel or any other commercially intended/produced work you have to pay a license fee. In your case you can be lucky if you don't get sued, regardless what the contend of your work is.

Purely legalistically I think that's wrong. Any use of a protected work be it private or public, commercial or not, without permission is a breach of copyright. Of course, if no-one else ever sees it they'll never know :)

[Martin Weiss]

There are a number of places where you can buy licenses for a dozen dollars or so. If that is too much, there is always Kevin MacLeod, who has some very good music that you can use as long as you credit him.

I used it on a demo reel (http://abitofmagic.no/video/magic/2 ). If you look around, you might just find the perfect track.

His site is at http://abitofmagic.no/video/magic/2 (and if you search for him on youTube, you´ll see that his music does get used.)

Also, Moby has a site where he lets you use certain tracks - but only for non-commercial work. See http://mobygratis.com/film-music.html

[Andrew Walker]

Thanks for all the info about the Royalty Free music. I'll remember this when I'm looking for a track to go on this demo. I just need to make sure I read the fine print to make sure its okay.

[Joe G.]

"Again I know that I am in the wrong. I just wanted to vent."

Ummmmm -- why would you need to "vent" at all? You basically stole someone else's art (the song) and used it inappropriately, and got caught.

You admit you wouldn't want that done with your own art.

So -- I remember in traffic school when the instructor asked: "Who here hates tailgaters?"

Everyone raised their hands.

Then: "Who here tail gates?"

(I did not raise my hand, although a significant portion of the class did. Much laughing. I wanted to bash some heads.)

[Dylan Reeve]

For completely free check out ccMixter (http://ccmixter.org) - heaps of samples as well as full tracks all under CC licenses (mostly CC-BY-NC, but some CC-BY also)

[Andrew Walker]

Okay so here's the skinny on what happened. I guess it was the copyright holder that asked for the music to be pulled as I was told from the guys over at Adams Arms. They weren't mad or anything like that. They were more excited that the video had gotten that much exposure. So MGM the copyright holder isn't going to sue just as long as its not used in the video. I can also understand why this happened on this video, mainly because its a demo of a product. The timelapse videos are just little videos that I've put together for people to watch. So I guess that's the reason why the video got picked. I just wish MGM had contacted me first because I would have believed them and not even complained about pulling the music.