Super 8mm RED Cartridge

[Michael Tobia]

Now I thought about an Idea of having a Super 8mm Cartridge hold a sensor with all the digital equipment needed instead of film. I fancy the beautiful shapes of old cameras and film, but when you really cant afford that much film, it would be awesome to use a medium that is reusable and able to get on your computer. I was thinking maybe the actual film advancer thing that moves the film in the canister, can power that bad boy and even communicate with the sensor to tell it how frequently the shutter is opening. If it was possible to make, the sensor size would probably be pretty small (8mm), which maybe is an economic failure for a company making those things. Tell me guys, would this be cool? I would love one!!!:bleh:

I feel that there exists tons of different vintage and older cameras that can be put to great use without altering. Since the 8mm cartridge is universal, this can be applied easily, but not all 16mm or 35mm cameras have a universal layout for film spools.

[chuck colburn]

A great idea. I love those old Beaulieus with the Schneider and Angenieux zooms. Some of those Nizos were spiffy too.

[Charles Angus]

That would blow my mind...

[Richard Fox]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/9909/99090501siliconfilm.asp

[kidrobot]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/9909/99090501siliconfilm.asp

Late fall 1999 is almost here. Can't wait :D

[Michael Tobia]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/9909/99090501siliconfilm.asp

Wow thats awesome! I love that design, now if this issue was taken on today, it would totally be possible to really find an amazing solution!

[Tarek S. Kandil]

I use super 8mm till today, develop at home, and scan using an SLR at 4.5K (doesn't look too hot that big but i can do it) at 12 bit color depth.

Sensors in the cartridge would be sweet, but you lose the whole emulsion part. IMO that's what makes 8mm 8mm.

What would be sweet and what I'd like to figure out is how to sneak a CCD in there to tap a video signal to a monitor and possibly to record something to see instantly.

Someone did this with a canon 1014 and sells the modification, I have a beaulieu 6008 set of cams, it would be sweet if one could tell me where a good place for a ccd is in that cam. It's the nicest I've used. If we can figure out a video tap to record a 512px wide thingy for instant ref until processing it would up business like MAD.

And so far i think it's the most realistic realization of your idea.

Which is a friggin sweet idea.

Anyone know how to stick a ccd in a film cam?

T

[Tarek S. Kandil]

seriously I just set up a lab and all, video assist would make it completely.

I'm up for doing as much legwork as it takes to hook this up. I love super8mm its cheap and yields decent results.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I use super 8mm till today, develop at home, and scan using an SLR at 4.5K (doesn't look too hot that big but i can do it) at 12 bit color depth.

What sort of setup do you have for scanning via DSLR? I'm interested as I have a lot of old 8mm I would like to scan. I set up a telecine process using an HVX200 about 2 years ago and it gave me pretty decent results with 720p DVCPROHD files to work with. But I kinda gave up on it after a while. I'd get back to working on it if I could find a better solution that won't break the bank.

[Tarek S. Kandil]

I just tried last week am trying to figure out a way to automate it. I connect a switch to the projector that sends a signal every time the frame is steady in front of the gate.

Usually, this switch goes to your computer via mouse to tell your program to capture. The computer talks to your camera that's firewired to the pc.

I placed a sony alpha and instead rigged the projector to the shutter. instead of telling the mouse to click, it tells the shutter to snap (must make very slow, min 1 fps) and fill up the cam's cards. its 4 cards per roll.

I take the cards and compile files on AE using the frames as img sequences. Comp in comp in comp, colorista, and render to output of choice.

It's decent, i should post results next week tops as connection is bad in lebanon.

Any tips? I've just tried this, and would like to tether the cam to a computer if possible to record straight to disk, wout sd cards.

Its very tedious and manual, but tedious is like half an hour per roll as opposed to seven minutes at a professional transfer place.

Results are nice, 4K is huge for 8mm, but to scale down for processing it retains a lot more info. Responds really nice to colorista.

t

[michael zaletel]

Interesting discussion. Could you post some stills?

-shooter

[Garrett M. Smith]

Tarek,
Are you using the Workprinter from moviestuff.tv or is this your own solution?

[Petr Dvorak]

Transfer of 8mm and homemade DIY telecine was discussed on severel threads before. Best transfer is via good flatbed scanner. It's not quick but you get best result because film is in constant focus. But you need some small script or program to crop, rotate and stack all frames. I was thinking of create it with Photoshop actions.
Here is one which detects sprocket perforations
http://www.truetex.com/tiffcine.htm
http://www.truetex.com/telecine.htm

Hope somebody will start to produce some cheap 8/16/35mm telecines in same fashion.

I posted some links to amazing Lego telecine rigs
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=120925&postcount=23
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=120954&postcount=27

http://home.comcast.net/~shay.mozes/DSC05345.jpg http://www.marksimonson.com/images/legotype.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TKVJ6OFqJzk/RzwCipsrM6I/AAAAAAAAAEk/Xy9j8dbfQuI/s400/Guide+Assembly.JPG

Scarlet will be good for transfering too. :)

[Tarek S. Kandil]

attaching stills, but my internet is not too good for the next few hours in lebanon.

The workprinter from moviestuff is awesome as the image is off a condenser lens. I just have it trigger a shutter on a cam.

I tried with a Eumig 610 before it worked but didn't last, I gambled and turned up fps a bit too much.

I should have something posted by end of week friday, upload is less than 56K here its worse than dial up.

The lego thing looks sweet will read those links now...

Thanks guys I'll stay on this thread this week.

T

[Tarek S. Kandil]

Flat bed looks good and practical, but the DSLR is quicker on capture, if i can just the thing to shoot and record the file straight to my computer would be perfect.

[Tarek S. Kandil]

We were talking about a sensor somewhere around the camera gate earlier? I looked around and du-all camera can outfit a canon 1014 with a ccd and video out to monitor.

[Michael Tobia]

Yeah, there are so much possibilities but generally I feel corporations are not quite fond of developing new technology for old technology, creates maybe a subconscious image of regression rather then progression.

I still Think it could work and would be successful but would probably be hard to design, and since my Ignorance can only substitute for so much, ill stop saying this may be a good working and commercially successful idea. But hey, I'm all for recycling good old mechanical winded Super 8mm Cameras any day.

One thing about the sensor is that its probably going to be small, and would be much less complicated and definitely not a significant power consumption as other sensors.:biggrin:

[Florian Stadler]

I'm myself a professed lover of Super8, especially reversal. Shot over 150 rolls last year....

Here's a VIDEOTAP solution I came up with for a Serj Tankian music video "All of Us" (nominated for best rock video of the year MVPA) shot entirely on Super8 reversal where we needed a videotap to be able to put it on a jib and control the framing... A spy cam from ebay with a mini c-mount zoom lens velcroed and rubber banded to the eyepiece. Worked like a charm.

http://florianstadler.com/serjtankian.jpg

[Wil Klassen]

Florian, love the added "credit card mount":)

[Dan Hudgins]

I thought of the Super8 to HD/Digital Cinema converter some time ago.

There is a problem with getting the sensor into the focal plane of the Super8 cameras gate. You could use fiber optics bundle but that is not high enough resolution, so you would need a field and relay lens, or you need to remove the aperture plate so you can push the sensor closer to the lens. Also you would need a narrow sensor to fit within the space available.

==

My "freeish" DANCINES.EXE (tm) automates film scanners, in our scanner we use two computers, one to run DANCINES.EXE (tm) and the other runs Canons USB download software, you setup the Canon software for out XTi DSLR and have many GB of free disk space to store the frames. We then use third party DCRAW (tm) to convert the *.CR2 RAW frames into 16but 48bpp TIF frames, I made a program called DCRAWBAT (tm) that makes a batch file to call DCRAW (tm) and rename the files into a numbered form my DANCAD87.EXE (tm) can use for editing and color correction (from negative or reversal stocks). The relays for automation of the scanner just hook up directly to the computer's parallel port. Old Bell and Howell Super8 projectors have a shutter shaft inching knob you should be able to put a timing belt on to run a DC gear motor or stepper motor for the single frame advance, and you swap the lamp out for LED light source. You can use a Macro lens or refocus the projectors lens onto the DSLR sensor and add a stop in front to get a sharper image (you can put an achromat on the projector lens so it does not need to extend so far, or use a 135mm+/- lens on the DSLR focused at INF close to the front of the projector lens, if the Super8 projector lens is a zoom kind that can adjust the size of the image on the sensor in the DSLR) . With the Canon XTi DSLR when you fire the camera from the electronic cable release input (takes two relays stereo sub-mini phone jack) the download software automaticly takes the frame off the camera via the USB, my software has an input to detect the red busy light on the back of the camera via a photo transistor to hold the software until the camera is ready to shoot another frame, it also holds the projector advance, and has timing adjustments.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Wow, that digital cartridge is 1.3MP only but 36-bit! Nice haha.... wow. Very cool if you don't care about the tiny size. Radical concept!