LTO setup - Where to buy

[mpallikonda]

Folks,

After going through a number of posts on LTO setup and recommendations, I came to a decision to get the following stuff for my LTO setup.

HP SAS LTO4 Utrium model 1840
ATTOTECH R380 SAS HBA
TOLISGROUPs BRU-LE

Could some one suggest where can I buy these ?
And also, could you recommend which brand should I buy for tapes and specifications please ? Please identify if any cables are necessary.

Thanks in advance
Murali

[Dave Blackham]

Dont know where your based, if your in the UK. www.quadlogic.co.uk they are very good and know how to support this kit for media workflows.

Hope it all goes well for you.

Dave

[mpallikonda]

I'm based in NJ, USA. Thank you.

[Brian Timmons]

Hey Murali,

I'm based in Jersey myself.
I bought my Mac Pro system with HP 1760 LTO setup from Tekserve in NYC.
Jeff Blakeman (jeffb@tekserve.com) and Steve Grassoti (steveg@tekserve.com) were the two video specialists that helped me out.
I highly recommend them. If problems come up even after the purchase, they will help you solve it. Prices were fine too.

Tell them Brian sent you (might help).

I've used HP, Sony, and Quantum tapes in my drive with no problems.

PM me if you need anymore help.

Brian Timmons
britim media

[Brian Timmons]

Murali,

You also might consider BRU Server over Bru LE since the LE version supposedly has an archive limit of 250GB.

Check the top of this page for details.
http://www.tolisgroup.com/products/macosx/le/faq.html#size

Brian Timmons
britim media

[mpallikonda]

Rocking. Thanks, Brian.
I will reach out to them and let them know you sent.
I will check out BRU server version. Thanks.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You also might consider BRU Server over Bru LE since the LE version supposedly has an archive limit of 250GB.

Must be old information. I'm creating archives with BRU-LE that span multiple LTO-4 800GB tapes.
:umm:

Or perhaps this is something more limiting with earlier versions of OSX -- like 10.3.9, etc..?

I guess I'll have to ask Tolisgroup for some more info.

[warwickt]

Folks,

After going through a number of posts on LTO setup and recommendations, I came to a decision to get the following stuff for my LTO setup.

HP SAS LTO4 Utrium model 1840
ATTOTECH R380 SAS HBA
TOLISGROUPs BRU-LE

Could some one suggest where can I buy these ?
And also, could you recommend which brand should I buy for tapes and specifications please ? Please identify if any cables are necessary.

Thanks in advance
Murali

Hi Murali, great choice for this config! Also include some Ultrium LTO4 data tape media and SFF8088-SFF8088 mini-sas interface cable.

Some suggestions where to buy that I used. Other posters will have their suggestions so you will have a load of info I think. :

Buy/purchase the:
SAS ULTRIUM LTO4 tape drive: try DIGITAPE (California, usa) http://www.digitape.com and ask for Nader. Purchase over internet or via the phone.

I bought by Quantum TC-L42BN SAS Ultrium4 HH tape drive (I should have bought an HP one !) and a bunch of HP ULtrium LTO4 media from them in two separate orders. They ship also internationally and take credit cards. so no dramas at all. I had my order in 3 days shipped here to Hong Kong. Great service

ATTOTECH HBA R380 EXPRESS SAS - I would suggest you try OWC (Other world computing at http://www.macsales.com/).

THey ship quite fast, take most credit cards and paypal I recall and also ship internationally and also ship really quickly.

BRU-PE/LE: YOU can contact http://www.tolisgroup.com. They will advise you where to buy etc. Also note that BRU-PE (Producers Edition will ship soon I understand). If Adrian.K from Tolisgroup on this forum as I saw, He may know and advise. I would recommend BRU-PE (producers edition) when it is available.

BRU-PE is in final BETA testing is native .app Universal Binary for OSX and runs on LEopard OSX 10.5.6 OK for this that wanna know.

As for a post here in this thread that says there is some limit to BRU-LE??? archive size?

Well I dont think this is correct (it is incorrect). I have an archive that is currenty 28TB across 4 x Utrium LTO4 tape volumes. As Jeff Kilgroe (thanks Jeff) has correctly pointed out single MULTI-VOLUMED archives are supported.

So to be clear on this right now one (1 x) of my single archive sets in my BRU-xE archive is in fact 2.8TB across 4 x Ultrium LTO4 (800GB) data tapes (a multi-volumed archive set). This was a single archive action. Note each object in the is archive is accessible so that there is no need to load up the whole archive instance. (use of LOCATE BLOCK/SPACE scsi command to move to the tape quickly without reading the data)

CABLES: ok heres the deal in your preferred configuration. Power cables excepted)

The data cable you need is called a mini-SAS multilane SFF-8088(m)-SFF-8088(m) cable and you might need to source one separately. This is simply because the R380 and the HP 1760 both use female versions that take te SFF-8088 connector. no worries!.

Ask the guys at DIGITAPE.com for one. I bought several here in Hong Kong. THey are about $HK500 (€50 | $usd60ish or as low as $USD49 if you google around) but you should source them cheaper than this. Oh and these were 1metre long cables.

The above cable is also referred to as a multilane cable and also as Inifiniband as well.. confusing eh?

Here is a link to what they look like: http://www.computercablesource.com/sff-8088-sas-connector-external-mini-26.aspx There is one of these connectors on each end. Mine are in fact a chrome colour not 'gold'.

NOw depending on what bundle of HP 1760 you get you may or may NOT get this mini-sas/infiniband interface cable I describe.

For example the HP 1760 kit I have here only shipped with a DATA TAPE and an internal to external SAS cable with a inline SFF-8484 (internal edge PCB connector). The idea here is that it is presumed you already have a SAS HBA used in your MACPRO/other_platform machine. A nice touch but useless unless you have such an SAS HBA already that can take this connector.

Also some tape drives may ship with a cable that is an SFF-8470 to SFF-8088 so beware of this. In such a case this interface cable is of no use to you because the HP 1760 tape drive has a female socket fit for the male SFF-8088.

The ATTOTECH R380 EXPRESS SAS HBA has TWO (x2) 4 lane multiport female sockets on it that with the standard cable will support immediately 4 + 4 direct SAS targets (simply 8 x SAS target or SAS devices). for more devices you're up for a SAS expander.. no need for any detail here.
(FWIW the Quantum tape drive that I continue to whinge about, shipped in a bundle I purchased from DIGITAPE with a mini-sas cable SFF-8470 to SFF-8088 so it was completely useless for connecting to my ATTOTECH R380 Expressas HBA. I did however recoup it use for later use the LSI LOGIC SAS3442E-R SAS HBA that uses the female end of the SFF-8470... this detail may help others).

ULtrium LTO4 data tapes: I used mainly HP C7974A (800GB uncompressed) and a few SONY ones. I guess like anything everyone will have their own tastes. I like the hP ones because they seem to be stable. truth be known they're probably all made by the same company in Taiwan :huh: :huh:

Also Imation have excellent Ultrium LTO data tapes.

Again you will purchase more effectively when you my in packets of 5 or 10 or more. You can probably source them as cheap in the usa now as anywhere due to the state of $usd (and the $HKD!). I purchase mine for DIGITAPE.com in the USA. They charge like wounded bulls here in Hong KOng for the Ultrium LTO4 media.

One last thing - OPINION only. I suspect Ultrium LTO5 annoucement (an announcement that is) at the end of this year 2009 by the usual bunch of vendors HP, Quantum, IBM SUN/STK etc etc. So this will lower the price of the Ultrium LTO4 media and then I assume the tape drives themselves much later over time. SAS 6Gbs! and FC nice.. All their roadmaps suggest something. I'm not waiting though at Utrium LTO 4 is fine at present. Anyway I don't see LTO5 Ultrium on the streets at affordable prices until late 2010 for end users like myself.

In any case my setup (same as the one proposed here) up will be good for at least 8 years then after I will migrate seemlessly to the next generation of stable storage media... most likely standard 50TB holographic solid state that reads and writes at 100Gb/s and all my essence transcoded at loss motion JPEG2000! (LMJP2K) (I wish)

Hope that helps.

warwick
HK

[mpallikonda]

Warwick,
Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. Awesome.

[cinedigital]

Great info Warwick, but I think you have a bit of confusion about Infiniband

SFF-8470 Infiniband cables are used for muti-lane SATA/SAS in the same way as Mini-SAS SFC-80800 cables, but have a completely different connector as you discovered:

http://www.computercablesource.com/NPDPopImage.aspx?pi=images/sas-ll_xl.jpg

There are also 2 different variants with securing latches or thumbscrews which are not interoperable. These type of cables are also used for 10Gb CX4 and Infiniband networking.

SFF-8470 Infiniband connectors are used on some Highpoint and ProAvio multi-lane SATA storage products amongst others, but Mini-SAS SFC-80800 has become more common recently.

mpallikonda, LTO4 is a great choice for achiving, although the media cost is significantly higher per Mb than with LTO3, it can deliver significantly higher backup speeds. Choose whichever suits your budget and workflow.

If you are likely to regularly create multi-volume archives, it's worth looking at an automated library system - some are available at prices not much higher than for a standalone drive.

All The Best

Dave Barnard
cinedigital
London, UK

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Good suggestions by warwick.

I would recommend the ATTO controller combined with the HP 1760 as well. Or if you go with the Quantum LTO-4HH (I have this one myself) I recommend the LSI SAS-3442E HBA, which is also available in a bundled kit from Quantum. Thus far, the Quantum drive does not always play nice with other HBA's, like the ATTO 380.

The desktop Quantum kit with SAS HBA, blank tape, cleaning tape and 1.5M SAS cable can be had for under $2300 USD. If you're within the USA, Provantage.com has some of the best prices on various tape systems. I believe they have the HP units too. I helped someone buy and install the HP 1760 about 2 months ago. We bought direct from HP's online store -- they had special discounts at the time that were better than any other vendor we could find, even better than TechServe, etc..

DELL also has some really nice tape systems too, but I don't know of anyone who has tried them on a Mac. Tandberg's tape systems also work well with Mac. They recommend ATempo software and Tandberg has some of the best offerings for low cost multi-tape systems.

[ckarcher]

We just ordered from Provantage. They have been great, and the best prices too.

we ordered the atto SAS card and a HP LTO 4 8 tape autoloader- this allows us to store 6.4 TB uncompressed. We got the loader for a incredible deal: Provantage.

[warwickt]

Great info Warwick, but I think you have a bit of confusion about Infiniband

SFF-8470 Infiniband cables are used for muti-lane SATA/SAS in the same way as Mini-SAS SFC-80800 cables, but have a completely different connector as you discovered:

http://www.computercablesource.com/NPDPopImage.aspx?pi=images/sas-ll_xl.jpg

There are also 2 different variants with securing latches or thumbscrews which are not interoperable. These type of cables are also used for 10Gb CX4 and Infiniband networking.

SFF-8470 Infiniband connectors are used on some Highpoint and ProAvio multi-lane SATA storage products amongst others, but Mini-SAS SFC-80800 has become more common recently.

snip snip
............

All The Best

Dave Barnard
cinedigital
London, UK
HI Dave ah yes!.. I stand corrected thanks. I'll bow to your comment. I DO have the SFF-8470 min-sas interface cable (with thumbscrews) for my LSI LOGIC SAS3443E-R. It was shipped with my quantum LTO4 SAS ultrium tape drive with a SFF-8088 connector on the leading end. I have seen these referred to by colleagues and info as Infiniband cables...

SFF-8088: quite true. I have SFF-8088 female connectors on my PROAVIO EB8MS JBOD enclosure. this was somewhat recent so yes these are commingthe common place now.

no worries :)
sorry for confusion.

thanks for the info. :)
B.R.!
w