Redspace in AE

[Philip Powell]

When working in AE working space of Rec 709 and Assigned profile of Rec 709 to the R3D's. (Interpret As Linear Light pop up to OFF).

My files come in dark, but I believe they are correct. Meaning they come in as if I shot in camera with Rec 709 colorspace. (I'm on a PC btw.)

Where does Redspace (brighter) come into this workflow? If I shot with Redspace and pull the files into AE directly how do I get them to display "correctly"?

Don't we really need a "Redspace" color profile to get this to all play nice?

Or am I missing something somewhere?

[Dave Neathery]

Thank you. I've been wanting to post nearly the same question for at least a week.
But, I want to be able to get the same look I shot with (Redspace) in Pr. (Also PC based).
So, hopefully they will put this as a setting somewhere or tell us how to create this look in Pr and Ae. I haven't been successfull so far.

Dave

[Kaku Ito]

In Premiere Pro, if you select the property of a clip shows list of stuff and there are things like Monitor Color Space:REDspace, White Balance Kelvin:5000 and so on.
So, I assume the metadata is read as you import the R3Ds to Premiere Pro but not changeable at this moment I guess.

[Dave Neathery]

Yes, I've seen the entries there. I assume that eventually we will be able to select those.
In the meantime, I am hoping someone will tell us what we can do to get the Redspace look using existing Pr and Ae features.
Please,

Dave

[Kaku Ito]

Dave,

Didn't you have to edit the script of AE to apply some of those metadata? I don't if that's the same for Premiere Pro, but AE, you have to manually edit the script.

[Dave Neathery]

Dave,

Didn't you have to edit the script of AE to apply some of those metadata? I don't if that's the same for Premiere Pro, but AE, you have to manually edit the script.

I really don't know. It's embarrasing to admit, but even though I have spent many of my years as a software developer, I have never touched the scripting features of the Adobe products.

Dave

[Kaku Ito]

Dave,

I think the doc was included in the RED CS4 installer explaining about modifying the script.

[Dave Neathery]

I remember reading that, I don't remember thinking it applied to this. I'll have to reread it. Thanks for the reminder.

Dave

[Santiago Marti]

i really don't think it aplies to this. :detective2:

[Kaku Ito]

I thought it's some what related. Can't force it to read as REDSPACE instead?

-----------------------------------

You can only select Assign Profile if you have color management enabled by setting the Project Workingspace.
However, assigning color profiles on a clip-by-clip basis can be time consuming. After Effects can make this
change automatically on a global basis with a small revision to AE’s “interpretation rules.txt” file. This file is
located at:
Vista64: C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe After Effects CS4\Support Files\interpretation rules.txt
Vista32/XP32: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe After Effects CS4\Support Files\interpretation rules.txt
Mac: Applications/Adobe After Effects CS4/interpretation rules.txt
Add the following 3 lines of text directly above the line “# this soft rule should be the last in the list of soft rules”:
# rule to make red raw files available as Rec709
# with Gamma encoded 32bit float data
*, *, *, "R3D ", * ~ *, *, *, *, "r7hf", 0
Once this change has been made, After Effects will automatically interpret the colors provided by the R3D plugin
correctly.

[Tai Wah Lim]

I thought it's some what related. Can't force it to read as REDSPACE instead?

-----------------------------------

You can only select Assign Profile if you have color management enabled by setting the Project Workingspace.
However, assigning color profiles on a clip-by-clip basis can be time consuming. After Effects can make this
change automatically on a global basis with a small revision to AE’s “interpretation rules.txt” file. This file is
located at:
Vista64: C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe After Effects CS4\Support Files\interpretation rules.txt
Vista32/XP32: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe After Effects CS4\Support Files\interpretation rules.txt
Mac: Applications/Adobe After Effects CS4/interpretation rules.txt
Add the following 3 lines of text directly above the line “# this soft rule should be the last in the list of soft rules”:
# rule to make red raw files available as Rec709
# with Gamma encoded 32bit float data
*, *, *, "R3D ", * ~ *, *, *, *, "r7hf", 0
Once this change has been made, After Effects will automatically interpret the colors provided by the R3D plugin
correctly.

Kaku, I asked the same question. This should be a RED Rec709 table. Or is it?

Lim

[Philip Powell]

Kaku, I asked the same question. This should be a RED Rec709 table. Or is it?

Lim


It's clearly darker than Redspace, so to my eye, applying Rec 709 to the R3D's is just like shooting in Rec 709.

[Jeremy Neish]

I agree with Philip. The documented "solution" basically simulates shooting in Rec709. Surely somebody has figured out a way to get a Redspace look directly in AE. Even if it's just a curves preset or something similar. Bueller...

[Dave Sander]

I'm just starting out with AE CS4, and have recently been asked to do compositing, grading and VFX work using footage shot on the RED.

I installed all the bits and pieces, modified that script as suggested, and set to calibrate everything to a new workflow. I imported a 2k R3D file and a 4k R3D file (from separate shoots) as a test, and both appeared surprisingly bright - far brighter than the proxies appeared in Quicktime, as if the gamma was several notches above where it should be. Both original clips were shot in darker situations - one is of smoke in a dark room, the other is drama shot at night.

I tried altering the colour profile of the AE project (away from 709), but there was little change. I can compensate by crunching the footage using curves and/or levels tools, but that counters what should ordinarily be done, as in doing so I'm tearing out colour information - which exacerbates the way the footage appears in the first place, and frankly counters any advantages of RED in the first place.

I've had a cursory look around the web for similar stories, but I have yet to find a solution. I wanted to use the R3Ds so there was a) manageable file sizes; and b) as few generations between camera and comping/grading. The way these files are coming in appears quite odd, and I'm still trying to work out if it's something I'm doing (or not doing) or is there's something wrong with the system. Why there's a different interpretation of the footage between the proxies (which are perfect) and the R3Ds in AE I have yet to determine.

[Troy Smith]

I'm just starting out with AE CS4, and have recently been asked to do compositing, grading and VFX work using footage shot on the RED.

I installed all the bits and pieces, modified that script as suggested, and set to calibrate everything to a new workflow. I imported a 2k R3D file and a 4k R3D file (from separate shoots) as a test, and both appeared surprisingly bright - far brighter than the proxies appeared in Quicktime, as if the gamma was several notches above where it should be. Both original clips were shot in darker situations - one is of smoke in a dark room, the other is drama shot at night.

I tried altering the colour profile of the AE project (away from 709), but there was little change. I can compensate by crunching the footage using curves and/or levels tools, but that counters what should ordinarily be done, as in doing so I'm tearing out colour information - which exacerbates the way the footage appears in the first place, and frankly counters any advantages of RED in the first place.

I've had a cursory look around the web for similar stories, but I have yet to find a solution. I wanted to use the R3Ds so there was a) manageable file sizes; and b) as few generations between camera and comping/grading. The way these files are coming in appears quite odd, and I'm still trying to work out if it's something I'm doing (or not doing) or is there's something wrong with the system. Why there's a different interpretation of the footage between the proxies (which are perfect) and the R3Ds in AE I have yet to determine.

The best you'll get in ae from my experience, and from what they reported on redcentre podcast is, to set the clips to preserve rgb, no color space turned on, right clik on one clip, interpret footage/preserve rgb, then right clik same clip again, chose interpret footage/remember, then select all your clips right click and interpret footage apply, then your clips will not look all bright and pasty, they will look like they do in premiere, not redspace, possibly rec709, totally workable at least. Try it, works well for me.

[Dave Sander]

The best you'll get in ae from my experience, and from what they reported on redcentre podcast is, to set the clips to preserve rgb, no color space turned on, right clik on one clip, interpret footage/preserve rgb, then right clik same clip again, chose interpret footage/remember, then select all your clips right click and interpret footage apply, then your clips will not look all bright and pasty, they will look like they do in premiere, not redspace, possibly rec709, totally workable at least. Try it, works well for me.

Works a treat - you are a saviour! Thanks so much!