Questions from a know-nothing newbie :)

[Brandon Freeman]

I recently finished post-production on my first feature, shot on an HVR-Z1U and edited on Sony Vegas.

Well, now I'm looking to do it again, albeit with a bit of a jump. I don't know where the money's gonna come from (hopefully my first film will bring in some cash), but I'd like to shoot my next film with Red. My experience is limited to the pro-sumer level (Z1U, Vegas), so I don't know squat about the higher end issues such as what I need and what I don't -- but I'm willing to learn.

So, what would be an ideal set-up? Is there any plan to support other software besides FCP directly (aka Sony Vegas) or do I need to plan on moving to Mac? I'm pretty much set on Mac at this point anyway, due to God-awful Vista, but I do love me Vegas.

Anyway, the major question I have is, what am I looking at for hard drive requirements when shooting 4K? As in, a feature that will have no less than 30 hours of footage to cut from (and probably more like 50)?

When all is said and done, including the software, the Mac, the camera, and what this fine community would deem as necessary RED accessories (I want dolly shots, crane shots, a little handheld, all kinds of varying DOF), what would the guesstimated price be for the camera and edit set-up? Would I be accurate in assuming I'm going to need to shell in approximately $75k? Or would it be more than that?

I've been planning on shooting with the XDCAM system; less sharp of a jump from the Z1U (and it's still "in the family"), but I'm really wanting something marketable for film-out, and if I'm gonna shoot for that, I just wanna do it.

So, how much do you think I should aim for, just for the camera and editing set-up? This is of course, not including lighting, sound, cranes, tripods, etc.

[Chris Forbes]

I recently finished post-production on my first feature, shot on an HVR-Z1U and edited on Sony Vegas.

So, what would be an ideal set-up? Is there any plan to support other software besides FCP directly (aka Sony Vegas) or do I need to plan on moving to Mac? I'm pretty much set on Mac at this point anyway, due to God-awful Vista, but I do love me Vegas.

I have a friend who bought a mac and is running Bootcamp: XP : Vegas on it because he didn't want to learn FCP. He says it runs great. Vegas does have limitations (a lot of them) but you get what you pay for.

BTW Welcome to the boards

[Craig Schober]

I recently finished post-production on my first feature, shot on an HVR-Z1U and edited on Sony Vegas.

Well, now I'm looking to do it again, albeit with a bit of a jump. I don't know where the money's gonna come from (hopefully my first film will bring in some cash), but I'd like to shoot my next film with Red. My experience is limited to the pro-sumer level (Z1U, Vegas), so I don't know squat about the higher end issues such as what I need and what I don't -- but I'm willing to learn.

So, what would be an ideal set-up? Is there any plan to support other software besides FCP directly (aka Sony Vegas) or do I need to plan on moving to Mac? I'm pretty much set on Mac at this point anyway, due to God-awful Vista, but I do love me Vegas.

Anyway, the major question I have is, what am I looking at for hard drive requirements when shooting 4K? As in, a feature that will have no less than 30 hours of footage to cut from (and probably more like 50)?

When all is said and done, including the software, the Mac, the camera, and what this fine community would deem as necessary RED accessories (I want dolly shots, crane shots, a little handheld, all kinds of varying DOF), what would the guesstimated price be for the camera and edit set-up? Would I be accurate in assuming I'm going to need to shell in approximately $75k? Or would it be more than that?

I've been planning on shooting with the XDCAM system; less sharp of a jump from the Z1U (and it's still "in the family"), but I'm really wanting something marketable for film-out, and if I'm gonna shoot for that, I just wanna do it.

So, how much do you think I should aim for, just for the camera and editing set-up? This is of course, not including lighting, sound, cranes, tripods, etc.

first off, congratulations on your first feature. most of your technical questions can be answered on various threads but i feel like none of us have much to do while we wait for more news so here are some answers:

it seems the only thing you need is an intel based mac or pc for redcine. from there you can spit out quicktime or whatever to edit in your favorite editor. but as far as ideal setup...anything quicktime based and running final cut pro as fast as possible like an 8 core pro mac is the way to go.

redcode uncompressed seems silly for 90% of applications so 30-50 hours of redcode will require between a 3-5 terabyte raid not including space for renders and needed space for optimum drive performance.

it sounds like you can do all you want for 75k but you'll have to wait for the red until mid 2008 if you're not on the list. i suggest you use that time waiting to figure out distribution for your first film. marketable film-outs from red will look great but never be required by any real distributor. if you're upping your technical game to benefit your story, great. but if you think distributors will cut you slack because your film looks so "red" vs. some dv film, then you're only in for a disappointment.

by the time most films originated on red get to your local cinema or dvd, they'll look just like any standard 35mm which is good but no real advantage for us filmmakers. but you can always save yourself a few or several hundred thousand dollars by going red and cutting many hollywood production corners.

good luck.

[Brook Willard]

While it doesn't answer your questions specifically, my FAQ-in-progress isn't a bad place to look. It's in my signature below.

[number6]

While it doesn't answer your questions specifically, my FAQ-in-progress isn't a bad place to look. It's in my signature below.

Brook, while this is the second time I've read the first section of your FAQ, I find that things you've posetd are clearer. Expect even more clarity (from my viewpoint) when I re-read it in the future.

I'm starting to think that as a novice, reduser.net forum in itself may be worth the price of a RED.

[Ralph Oshiro]

So, how much do you think I should aim for, just for the camera and editing set-up? This is of course, not including lighting, sound, cranes, tripods, etc.
If you're that ambitious, I wouldn't waste my efforts on ANY 2/3" camera. You could go with a bare-bones RED system using Nikkor still glass and get away with a package like this:

RED body.................. $17,500
RED rail.........................1,200
Nikkor mount................... 500
RED HDD x2...................1,800
LCD.............................1,700
RED power package x2....3,000
Every fast Nikkor made....3,000

Total.........................$28,700

Your Mac system would be something like an 8-core Mac with 8GB RAM. Then just get a pile of Firewire drives ($150 each). I think you could gear up with a RED package like this for about $35K.

[Brandon Freeman]

Hmm... If the RED ONE isn't available till mid 2008 for those who haven't reserved, I might have to hold off until my third film (I'm planning on making a film every two years, whether I'm distributed or not). Production for my latest film starts in June 2008, and I want to have about six months ahead of time to learn the equipment that I choose... And I certainly don't have the money right now to make a reservation.

Dang. :(

[GlennChan]

As others point out, you can use Redcine to convert to a quicktime format that vegas will handle. Rob Lohman uses Vegas, so you can be pretty sure that you'll be covered.

2- Question for the Red team:
Sorry if I haven't been following super closely, but will other NLEs like Vegas be able to edit Redcode RAW without transcoding? Via the quicktime reference file.

2b- Isn't Vegas already real-time 'enabled' so you get comparable real-time to FCP? (As long as your computer can decode AND have enough horsepower to do the effect. And ignoring the RAW processing controls within FCP.)

[Brandon Freeman]

The main reason why I'm talking Mac is due to the fact that, if and when I do upgrade to Red, I will need to upgrade to a new editor with more power, and I'm not going to Vista -- just am not. But I don't want to stay stuck with an old OS that will eventually be forgotten by software manufacturers.

Thus, Mac is inevitable for me. Not that I'm terribly happy with Mac either, but at least with Mac, everything's the same. Plus, FCS2 appears to have FINALLY taken some good tips from Vegas...

But I digress.

Is it really true that Red won't be available for those who haven't already made a reservation until mid 2008?

[Joe Aurili]

The word is some time in 2008, but it is all subject to change.

[Brandon Freeman]

Well, if I can even get one by the end of March 2008 (again, provided I have the funds to do so), two or three months of prep will suffice, I'm sure, as a video geek like yours truly will probably use the dang thing nonstop on my poor unwitting cat. :)

[WILLIAM SPENCE]

Hello Redworld! I have been reading, almost obsessively, about RED for the past year on this forumn and DVXuser. I felt like it was finally time to join in the fun.

Brandon, I am a big fan of Sony Vegas, I use it every day. It is such an easy and intuitive application. Honestly, I cannot tell you if it will currently handle 4K size projects as I have never had the need to check. What I can tell you is that Vegas is strictly and 8-bit program, and I have heard no rumblings that they have any intention in the near future to make it a more competitive 10-bit application even though users have been screaming for it. From your post, it sounds like your interest in RED is for making movies, and in that respect, I think you would really be holding yourself back by using Vegas for that purpose. You would be crippled in all of your color correcting and effects applications if you stuck with an 8-bit program, so in that light, I would definitately make the switch to Final Cut Studio or Premiere Pro and After Effects. On the other hand, if you were using it for any other less critical uses, you could use Redcine in Windows and output to 2K or smaller AVI or Quicktime and edit easily in Vegas.

[dalemccready]

Welcome Hoosier and Brandon!

I'd recommend going the FCP route and cutting however you want with Automatic Duck export from FCP into After Effects for finishing. Bypass the FCP renderer completely and do your outputs from AE in 16 or 32 bit.

Use the NLE for cutting (thats what it's best at) and use a higher bit depth app to tweak the look.

[Rob Lohman]

Glenn: should be yes to both. Obviously Vegas is 8-bit with a max of 2K.

[GlennChan]

Ah Rob, very cool.

[Steven Parker]

Well, if I can even get one by the end of March 2008 (again, provided I have the funds to do so)

your could always rent from your fellow RedUsers if the timetable is that much of an issue...:shifty:

[Brandon Freeman]

I've actually been thinking about it, and dang it, I'm going to hold production until I can own and feel comfortable with a Red. I appreciate the amount of folks interested in helping me out, and I did give it some thought, but I'd really like to shoot this with my own Red. That being said, I'm looking to tap this community for lots of support and advice! :)