Zeiss ZF Primes vs. Canon EF Primes

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Hey folks,

As far as SLR lenses go, I've heard the best things about the Zeiss ZF lenses (thank you Andrew Walker), especially with respect to the mod-jobs done by Duclos. For the price, it sounds like they're a great lens.

The one thing that concerns me about the Zeiss lenses is that a lot of the test footage I've seen exhibits noticeable breathing in focus pulls, despite the fact that they are prime lenses. They don't breathe THAT much, but a little breathing is too much!

Can anyone comment on the Canon L line of lenses? I've heard that it's the top glass made by Canon, especially the 50mm f1.2L. Considering the price for these lenses is 30-40% more, it seems like there may be a good increase in quality and construction. I'm wondering if anyone has shot with this series, can comment on its quality, perhaps even post any footage or screen shots? Any input is great!

Also, I am aware that the Canon lenses do not feature an iris ring on the lens itself and that would have to be camera controlled. It's not a big concern of mine, considering you generally don't pull the iris during a shot.

(I will be using the glass with an S35 Scarlet- motion, and no, I don't have the budget for legit cinema lenses :-) )

[Spencer Meffert]

I shot with a 50mm 1.2 today and breathing was nil; it absolutely blew me away. I've shot with a couple of L series zooms and the breathing was there about the same as a Zeiss ZF prime. With the L series primes I've tried there has been a resounding NO to lens breathing. Each lens has a different characteristic when racked and I've even put one 85mm 1.2 on, saw breathing, then tried another and noticed that unfortunate element had disappeared! I wouldn't think there'd be a huge discrepancy from one L series lens to the next but either a manufacturing consistency is lacking or I hit an off lens out of sheer bad luck. Either way, I've been stunned overall by the Canon L series quality.

~Spencer

[Charles Angus]

However, Canon L lenses have sloppy USM focus rings... I don't even like those on my SLR. Zeiss ZF have what I would consider real focus rings.

[Mark K.]

In terms of operation, the ZFs have proper focus gears with hard stops and reasonable focus throw. And I'd say that's probably more important for most shooting scenarios than any slight differences in breathing would be.

Especially considering that they are both still lenses, and therefore breathing would never have been given much (if any) consideration during their design.

[Joel Kaye]

My Canon L lenses have terrific focus rings. They aren't sloppy at all. They are fast at 24mm 1.4 and 35mm 1.4. They do have a short focus throw. I'm confident the Birger with the VF Knob will solve the focus throw problem. I think that combo will eventually prove to be the best SLR solution.

[Jonathan Stevenson]

So, when you guys talk about focus throw, do you mean that there's not much "distance" between macro and infinity? As in, you only can turn the focus ring a small amount, whereas a longer throw would have more degrees to each focus pull?

[Joel Kaye]

So, when you guys talk about focus throw, do you mean that there's not much "distance" between macro and infinity? As in, you only can turn the focus ring a small amount, whereas a longer throw would have more degrees to each focus pull?

Yeah, that's it. Manual SLR lenses with really good mechanics like the Zeiss have been the best for RED generally. Once you add a large follow focus gear then it becomes pretty reasonable to pull focus in a lot of situations.

AF lenses have tiny throws and can be tough to deal with. Electronic FF's like the not quite shipping yet View Factor Impero/Inclino combo will allow you to program the amount of throw you like. And it's wireless. So a geared set of Zeiss ZF's with Impero and Inclino motor should be just as usable as any PL prime lense.

Hopefully the same will be true of the Birger mount with Canon lenses. The difference being that the Canon lenses will use their own internal motor... which makes for a lightweight and fast lens/focus solution.

Sorry if you knew all that and I was too long winded there. I figured there may be lurkers who might not know as much.

[Andrew Walker]

So, when you guys talk about focus throw, do you mean that there's not much "distance" between macro and infinity? As in, you only can turn the focus ring a small amount, whereas a longer throw would have more degrees to each focus pull?

I just looked at my Nikon 85mm f~1.8 and Zeiss ZF 85mm f~1.4 and the difference in focal throw was substantial. To get from macro to infinite on the Nikon it took about a 90° turn to do so. On the Zeiss it took about 270° to get from macro to infinite. So that's a huge difference in trying to pull focus. Of course this doesn't really answer the question about the Canon EF primes. I was just putting this into the mix because I think the EF line are built the same mechanically as the Nikons.

[Charles Angus]

My Canon L lenses have terrific focus rings. They aren't sloppy at all. They are fast at 24mm 1.4 and 35mm 1.4. They do have a short focus throw. I'm confident the Birger with the VF Knob will solve the focus throw problem. I think that combo will eventually prove to be the best SLR solution.

I haven't personally used the Canon L primes, but I assume they work like all the USM lenses I've used - they have a focus ring that turns indefinitely.

Even if they aren't sloppy (ie. a change in focus direction on the ring has a miniscule lag to actually change focus), they would not be useable for repeatable moves - too much danger of the ring being turned past infinity or MF, thus ruining all your marks.

[Joel Kaye]

they would not be useable for repeatable moves - too much danger of the ring being turned past infinity or MF, thus ruining all your marks.

I guess if you believe that it's true for you. I've certainly set marks and kept them over and over and over. Once the programmable FF's arrive that issue goes away for even guys that can't stop themselves at infinity. Remember, there is a physical bump at infinity that tries to make you stop so you have to work a little bit to go beyond that.

[Jonathan Stevenson]

I never realized that the focus rings turned infinitely, I've never heard that before. So basically it sounds like stick to the Zeiss?

[Charles Angus]

For cinema-style production, I would say yes.