This is very funny

[Martin Ludwig]

read it here (http://ludwig.mercatus-doc.de/web/data/html//RED@professionalproduction.pdf) - sorry it is in german, hopefully anybody can translate it - my english is too poor to translate such a sophisticated ironic article. it is published in a german magazin called Professional Production (www.professional-production.de) here is the article http://ludwig.mercatus-doc.de/web/data/html//RED@professionalproduction.pdf

[Gunleik Groven]

Where is the exact article?

Gunleik

[Martin Ludwig]

Where is the exact article?

Gunleik

it is linked - on "read it here (http://ludwig.mercatus-doc.de/web/data/html//RED@professionalproduction.pdf)" in my post. online you can read only the first sentences (http://www.eubucoverlag.de/pp2/archiv/fachbeitrag/07-05/07-05_180_NABT1tx.shtml), the funny stuff is not online...

[laguun]

http://www.eubucoverlag.de/pp2/fachbeitraghome/07-05_180_NABT1tx.shtml

let me quote some fair-use translations....

"
...this year prophecy and sci-fi attratced more interest than real products, as in the age of the dot-com hysteria...
...there seem to be ages, where humankind falls easily for hype...
...how else would one explain, that a camera, which has been announced bigmouthed for delivery this nab, which should reduce everything which required so far years of research and development...
...but then, no wonder, is not there...
...but the real wonder is, however, that nobody realizes it!...
...it must be a marketing-god, who controls such phenomena...
...what one could mainly see - queues of people who wasted their valuable time waiting around the both, to be allowed to enter the inner sanctun in small groups - in order to be able to have a short glance at severeal "design-artpieces", or to have a look through a viewfinder, or to see some footage in a seperated room.
...praised might be the one, who might judge the quality of a 4k camera by looking through a 1280*720 viewfinder showing a red tent.... because there was no other image coming out of the most talked about object of this tradeshow....
"

the old saying about filmmakers seems to be vaild for journalists as well: there are only 2 kind of them. first-class people and no-class people :)

[Martin Ludwig]

Thanks laguun - you forgot the funniest story about the pictures of the Early Adaptors....

[laguun]

Thanks laguun - you forgot the funniest story about the pictures of the Early Adaptors....

i don´t have access to the rest of the "article" - would be curious to read it.

however, i think, the publisher ebuco just left our 2007 mediaplanning.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Achtung:
The writer is not a good journalist: you could walk right over to the Apple Booth and see the
Peter Jackson "Crossing the line" clips in a ProRes 4:4:2 demo.....
The Apple guy let me play with the clips and he had VariCam footage on the same time-line.
No comparison.

Die ROTE Kamera ist wundervoll !!

[Martin Ludwig]

i don´t have access to the rest of the "article" - would be curious to read it.

however, i think, the publisher ebuco just left our 2007 mediaplanning.

click on "read it here" in my first post !

[laguun]

click on "read it here" in my first post !

thanks ludmux, found the rest of this journalistic masterpiece....
holy cow....
ok, its getting better folks, some more comments from the german press...

""
...if one has faith in the promise of the manufacturer to pay back the 1000$ deposit if the project fails, so one might at least restrain from suspecting a huge scam...
...it rather seem like a field-experiment of a students class of harvard, which intends to demonstrate what one can achieve with good marketing and how far you can even fool highly qualified technical people...
...it is quite impressive, how the people at the booth can greet early adopters - even if one can´t read their name-tag...
.. if one is a born gambler, one might even make an earning with the -lets call them so - options, even if there will be no product in the end - it would be an interesting study of a quite unexpected kind. without any question, this study then would have an outstanding position in economic history.
...bold statements of ours however, regarding what was possible to learn until the end of NAB 2007, this outcome (he is referring to his "study-harvard-theory here....) seems quite possible...
""

if i remember correctly, the author is the same who told me that hdcam & 1080p would never be used for cinematic production in 2002, and g. lucas was paid for using the cameras etc...

maybe he would be better off writing scripts than trying to emulate a journalist.

[Moir]

maybe he would be better off writing scripts than trying to emulate a journalist.

...or just removing his head from his ass.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Am I missing something or did the "journalist(s)" leave out his/their name? There seems to only be the initials RN / BK at the end.

[Martin Ludwig]

t
...it is quite impressive, how the people at the booth can greet early adopters - even if one can´t read their name-tag...

the writer assumes that there has been taken pictures when people ordering their cameras, and all RED people have to learn this pictures to welcome every reservation holder personally by name !!!!

[Andrew Benz]

...or just removing his head from his ass.

...he can't, my Doc Martens are blocking his escape...:angry02: :angry01: :huh:

[Otto]

the old saying about filmmakers seems to be vaild for journalists as well: there are only 2 kind of them. first-class people and no-class people :)

I would like to convert it also into "there are (first-class) professionals and no(-class) professionals", as the magazine is named "Professional Production".

This article is so ridiculous, it's not worth to translate it. The short version of (this article about last NAB) is, that they spent half a page speculating if the whole Red-idea could be fake, but a brilliant marketing idea. And they regret the foolish, who spent there valuable time waiting in the row to get entry into the Red-tent to see a not working camera. But they are also speculating, that reservation-holders could make some extra money by reselling there reservations back to Red, so Red could serve some more important clients earlier (of cause theoretically only).

I wonder what these "journalists" are looking for. Maybe they are looking for some benefits from P&S Technik and ARRI (as this magazine is from the same homecountry Bavaria/Germany), or even Sony.

As a german I am realy ashamed about such ignorantes, and I canceled immediately my subscription of this bullshit magazine.

[Andreas Höhn]

Am I missing something or did the "journalist(s)" leave out his/their name? There seems to only be the initials RN / BK at the end.names of the jounalists : Roman Syska und Ruodlieb Neubauer

office email of "professional production" : redaktion@professional-production.de

[martinnoweck]

what makes this magazine also remarkable: they wrote the same negative stuff about red right after NAB 2006 calling reservation holders "gamblers" ...

IMO it is no real magazine, because the dop i work for each month gets two issues for free ... the articles serve to fill the gaps between advertisements.

[Rob Lohman]

Thanks, I needed a laugh :). I guess we just like to spend a lot of money on a scam. Wait.... we got that NAB space & booth for free.

Sounds like he didn't even see the movie. Oh well....

[Gunleik Groven]

It's funny to see how some magz all of a sudden get foreign subscribers, while others...

-;)

Cheers!

Gunleik

[Chris Gearhart]

That's too funny.

[Priyesh P.]

The article is not funny...ok, it is...
but it´s a serious statement, too and a showcase for things I really hate in this country, the spirit here is more about destroying new ideas and laugh about people who try something risky.

You should read the other leading magazine for film&broadcast here (film&tv kameramann), the only livlihood of that mag seems to endlessly lament about the industry, red, politics, red, media, red and so on. It always sucked my whole energy, so I just stopped reading it.

btw, Ludmux and Laguun, my statement is not directed to you at all

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

names of the jounalists : Roman Syska und Ruodlieb Neubauer

office email of "professional production" : redaktion@professional-production.de

Let´s remember that, and send them a copy of their article in a year or five...

[Martin Ludwig]

The article is not funny...ok, it is...
but it´s a serious statement, too and a showcase for things I really hate in this country, the spirit here is more about destroying new ideas and laugh about people who try something risky.

You should read the other leading magazine for film&broadcast here (film&tv kameramann), the only livlihood of that mag seems to endlessly lament about the industry, red, politics, red, media, red and so on. It always sucked my whole energy, so I just stopped reading it.

btw, Ludmux and Laguun, my statement is not directed to you at all
Ey Kalone, I know what you are hating - but listen, let them write - have fun with your life... you can decide ! We did !

[Daniel Reichenbach]

this article is just ridicilous. Just an information: I have the OK from the very known german magazine "brandeins" to write a REDstory, that's also the reason why I tried to visit the RED office before NAB, had an interview with Ted and wanted to have one with Jim. It's not this easy with this guys, ok, they were stressed to bring RED to the booth, so I will try in the next weeks, to get more information out of them, and I will wait until the first camera is realy delivered. It will be a success story no doubt about it and I can wait until the fog over the RED delivery day passed away. To write this story will only be serious if Jim let give me an interview (He sais: I don't like interview) and let me visit the holy grale of the REDoffice. Who knows, perhaps he will changes his mind after this ;-)

[Joe Carney]

To keep things in perspective, it's not just in Germany.

The last 4 weekends I spent being a PA on a low budget scifi shoot. I mentioned to the camera crew I was a RED rez holder. When the site manager found out..he spent all 4 weekends being sarcastic and claiming RED wasn't what they are saying it was.
(That the image couldn't be true 4K because it uses DeBayering...) and I found out he is one of the individuals over at another well known forum who participate in RED bashing. He plans on renting a Dalsa for his feature.
I guess he figures the Dalsa is true 4K and the RED isn't.

I asked him why he was so worried about my life and what I do? It is my money, and my risk, not his. I told him I wouldn't rent the Dalsa even if I wasn't getting a RED. Too expensive for me.

When he found out about the delay, he couldn't resist snickering.

Ce la vie. I didn't waste time arguing. I'm just being patient.
I'll shoot a quick short with the generous camera crew and forgive the other assholes when they realize what fools they've been. hehehe


On the upside, the entire camera crew offered me free use of various lenses to conduct tests once I get it, as long as they can participate. They were also asking about rental rates, of which I have no idea.

I'm not technical enough to counter his "not 4K" statements. He has been to the red site though. I imagine he lurks here too.

[Priyesh P.]

Ey Kalone, I know what you are hating - but listen, let them write - have fun with your life... you can decide ! We did !

Thanks. For sure you´re right! Let´s do our thing, best regards,

K.

[Jannard]

To keep things in perspective, it's not just in Germany.

The last 4 weekends I spent being a PA on a low budget scifi shoot. I mentioned to the camera crew I was a RED rez holder. When the site manager found out..he spent all 4 weekends being sarcastic and claiming RED wasn't what they are saying it was.
(That the image couldn't be true 4K because it uses DeBayering...) and I found out he is one of the individuals over at another well known forum who participate in RED bashing. He plans on renting a Dalsa for his feature.
I guess he figures the Dalsa is true 4K and the RED isn't.

I asked him why he was so worried about my life and what I do? It is my money, and my risk, not his. I told him I wouldn't rent the Dalsa even if I wasn't getting a RED. Too expensive for me.

When he found out about the delay, he couldn't resist snickering.

Ce la vie. I didn't waste time arguing. I'm just being patient.
I'll shoot a quick short with the generous camera crew and forgive the other assholes when they realize what fools they've been. hehehe


On the upside, the entire camera crew offered me free use of various lenses to conduct tests once I get it, as long as they can participate. They were also asking about rental rates, of which I have no idea.

I'm not technical enough to counter his "not 4K" statements. He has been to the red site though. I imagine he lurks here too.

So I guess he/they thought Peter Jackson was just wasting his time? And did they have an opinion of "Crossing the Line"? Oh, they didn't see it?

Jim

[T. Singh]

To keep things in perspective, it's not just in Germany.


(That the image couldn't be true 4K because it uses DeBayering...) and I found out he is one of the individuals over at another well known forum who participate in RED bashing. He plans on renting a Dalsa for his feature.
I guess he figures the Dalsa is true 4K and the RED isn't.



But Dalsa uses debayering as well.

-T

[Joe Carney]

He was being a fogey. The camera crew on the other hand are excited at the possibilities. I find it amusing he sought me out to 'discuss' RED.

The best response is to refuse to play their game.

[Steven M. Bailey]

Don't argue with a fool, to do so is to join him in his folly -Proverbs, The Bible

Believe in it or not, It works

Steve Bailey

[ghostcar]

Journalists can only comment about whats taking place in their life time. This is what they do to make $ and sell magazines. Red one is making history. And those using Red will be creating. No doubt one of those journalists will be eating their words when Red delivers an emotionally moving narrative feature or documentary that cannot be dissmissed because of its format. Then, hopefully, we will remember to email those two, and any others, that were sarcastic or pessimistic and remind them (in a friendly way) that history has had many breakthroughs by intelligent people with ideas.
AND THAT THEY WERE WRONG ABOUT RED ! :ranting2:

[number6]

Wasn't it P.T. Barnum who said something to the effect that you can say what you want about me... just spell my name right? The naysaying probably doesn't have the same news value as egressing from a limo sans pantys, but still, it's advertising. Just my detached opinion.

[Martin Ludwig]

this article is just ridicilous. Just an information: I have the OK from the very known german magazine "brandeins" to write a REDstory, that's also the reason why I tried to visit the RED office before NAB, had an interview with Ted and wanted to have one with Jim. It's not this easy with this guys, ok, they were stressed to bring RED to the booth, so I will try in the next weeks, to get more information out of them, and I will wait until the first camera is realy delivered. It will be a success story no doubt about it and I can wait until the fog over the RED delivery day passed away. To write this story will only be serious if Jim let give me an interview (He sais: I don't like interview) and let me visit the holy grale of the REDoffice. Who knows, perhaps he will changes his mind after this ;-)
send jim an issue Brandeins, so he can see what kind of serious magazine it is. It would be great to have a story in there! If you need any help or some words of possible users, send me a pm.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

send jim an issue Brandeins, so he can see what kind of serious magazine it is. It would be great to have a story in there! If you need any help or some words of possible users, send me a pm.

Thank you, good idea, I'll do that. On the other hand, if you google Jim on the net, he is somekind of a mysterium, as his sensor is one. Not many stories were written about him. And that's a very interesting aspect. That gives the impression, that Jim don't put his person in front, more his ideas and passion. And that is something which is rare for billionaires, so I try to respect it. But on the other hand I'll do everything possible to fight against rumours and desinformation about RED. I follow this story since the beginning and feel to be able to judge if RED is it or not.

[Martin Ludwig]

Thank you, good idea, I'll do that. On the other hand, if you google Jim on the net, he is somekind of a mysterium, as his sensor is one. Not many stories were written about him. And that's a very interesting aspect. That gives the impression, that Jim don't put his person in front, more his ideas and passion. And that is something which is rare for billionaires, so I try to respect it. But on the other hand I'll do everything possible to fight against rumours and desinformation about RED. I follow this story since the beginning and feel to be able to judge if RED is it or not.
And Brandeins is exact the right magazin for these kind of stories

[Daniel Reichenbach]

And Brandeins is exact the right magazin for these kind of stories

Yes I know, could be my english is not good enough to explane Jim why I asked "brandeins" for this succes story. It's an economic magazin that has more a philosophic and personal approach to business stories and that's exactly what RED is for me. RED is the beginning of a new decade in film history and people which are not concerned about film business should know, what's going on in this market.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Dont worry. Spoke to some people at Cannes Festival. Even to the uninitiated the article came across as rather moronic.

Jochen

[laguun]

Let´s remember that, and send them a copy of their article in a year or five...

sorry for bringing this topic back from the deads- but i suppose we can already send them the article now.

[Babu Kantamneni]

Yes I know, could be my english is not good enough to explane Jim why I asked "brandeins" for this succes story. It's an economic magazin that has more a philosophic and personal approach to business stories and that's exactly what RED is for me. RED is the beginning of a new decade in film history and people which are not concerned about film business should know, what's going on in this market.

i know you are busy but you need to talk to his guy for our sake however shy the big boys are.
babu

[Martin Ludwig]

sorry for bringing this topic back from the deads- but i suppose we can already send them the article now.
they all are very silent now !

[Frank Mirbach]

I´m in Germany and I´m German and I nhave to say this is so typical for the country. You should have seen the faces of the Arri guys at the RED booth at IBC. They didn´t look quite well ;) No wonder. "Professional Production" is an ad magazine, I get it for free every month and I don´t bother to read it really. Same goes with "Film and TV Kameramann", which I´m subscribed to for years, although I don´t read it either. Kind of belongs to being in the industry in Germany. Anyway, I´m sure thy´re completey wrong and I´m also sure they do it because of their tradition to support established companies paying for their ads.

Red will cange thi industry and I´d love to see their faces about that in a short period of time.