How can so many rentals afford Cooke S4 sets? Is it profitable?

[XiaoSu Han]

I asked myself the question just recently, when I was looking for rentals the other day and saw that so many new rentals with RED only have jumped out of nowhere and almost every one of them has extremely expensive lenses like the S4 series or Zeiss Ultra/Master primes.

Do they rent them from big rentals? I can't believe it can be profitable to take a credit over $200000 and not having them out all the time...

Someone enlighten me please ;)

[Kip Kubin]

Just a guess... as far as lower budget music videos go.

When choosing a RED shoot over film (16 or 3 perf 35) the expense of film stock/lab/techline allows money in the budget for top of the line lenses.

I guess what I'm saying is RED cameras have opened up a new income stream for Cooke S4 rentals in lower budget situations.

[Stephen Williams]

I asked myself the question just recently, when I was looking for rentals the other day and saw that so many new rentals with RED only have jumped out of nowhere and almost every one of them has extremely expensive lenses like the S4 series or Zeiss Ultra/Master primes.
)

Hi,

I think many DP's want to use the same lenses they used when shooting 35mm. Those expanded focus scales are very necessary for people who want to shoot at T2 or wider. Zeiss Standards & Series I/II Super Speeds are clearly inferior to modern lenses.

Stephen

[jimhare]

I think the question is more about being the owner of the lenses and renting them out.

Is it viable or a dead investment?

[Stephen Williams]

I think the question is more about being the owner of the lenses and renting them out.

Is it viable or a dead investment?

Hi,

Historically owning lenses, lights or grip equipment have been a far better investment than owning a digital camera. Imagine being able to rent out 30 year old lenses at more than 1% a day of original cost! The best lenses available today will be good for many years to come.

Stephen

[Zakaree Sandberg]

its only good if you have the clientele to back it up.

you arent going to rent your shit if you haven't already been doing it.

[Stephen Williams]

its only good if you have the clientele to back it up.

you arent going to rent your shit if you haven't already been doing it.

Hi,

Exactly, if you have talent, the producer will probably take the kit you ask for to do the job done. Nothing new or revolounary about that.

Stephen

[david_winters]

I work as a Dir / DP. Mid level advertising and industrial.

From my perspective, it's the established DPs with film kit and rental houses that already own the expensive glass and have added a Red package(s) to their inventory, not the other way around.

My partners and I own a significant amount of G&E, trucks, camera aks, edit bays, and post infrastructure however, no cameras or optics. I've lusted after owning a nice set of primes for over a decade, but it just doesn't make financial sense for my business, currently.

[Harry Clark]

It's a loooong time to pay back those lenses. Believe me I know. I have a set of S4's, Mark 3 Superspeeds, 18-100's and 25-250 HR.
If you spend $200,000+ on a set of primes that (realistically) rent for $1,000 per day, it's 200 days to break even. To make money? No. To break even. If you're really busy and do enough jobs that can afford expensive lenses, you'll see 100 of those jobs a year. It's likely you will see fewer, or make deals along the way during a slow week, etc. Some DPs will be forced to take only four lenses by the producer, rather than the whole set. In any event, it's two to five years before you break even. To make money? No. To break even.
In the meantime you have tied up $200,000+ that you likely borrowed at some usurious rate from a leasing company. You're on the hook for three to five years, paying the vig to the tune of $2,000 or $6,000 per month. Have a slow month? Tough luck. Pay up. Don't forget to insure them. That's another $4,000 per year. Look at the interest statement at the end of the year. How many thousands in interest??? In short, a lot of money going out the door that could have been your kids' college funds, or your retirement account.
Not for the faint hearted.
And if you park the set at a rental house, be prepared to have them go out ONLY when it's busy in town. Then you get 50%-60% of the rental. And some rental houses have a policy where, if your lenses are "in subrental", that when you get a call, you need to have the producer rent the lenses from the RENTAL HOUSE, not YOU.
Finally, after the lenses are paid off, it's "all gravy". But what if everyone's moved on in the meantime? What if you bought Ultraprimes in 2005 and now everyone wants Master Primes? What if FF35 really becomes popular? What if Birger and other still photo systems take hold? What if the Red Primes are really nice after all? Guess what happens to the value of your lenses?
In the past, lenses have been a nice rental item that holds value for an incredible length of time, and the technology has moved slowly. But I would not count on that trend continuing. I'm not saying that buying expensive cinema lenses is foolish. But you had better be an established DP or rental house, or perhaps a rock star AC, to keep them working as often as you'll need to.
Cheers,
Harry

[Joel Kaye]

In the past, lenses have been a nice rental item that holds value for an incredible length of time, and the technology has moved slowly. But I would not count on that trend continuing.

Yeah, probably a good idea to rent the really expensive stuff for another year or two and see what happens.

[Gary Ploj]

Yes, I would agree with Harry. 200k is a lot of money to re-coup...would love to hear some stories from busy or established DP's that have these lenses and hear their reactions or opinions on this. I personally, wouldn't want to invest in that...since it seems the market is changing much like the stock market. New companies or established companies are going to get into the market of lenses and prosper. 5K + cameras in the world...seems like a lot of owners without cine lenses...this is the time to introduce new products and with the new line of cameras from RED in the next two years also coming out...can you say "$$$$$".

NAB 2009 will be coming around the corner...there will be some new news of very very reasonable cine lenses appearing...love to hear what that's going to be. Sure, it may not like the UP or MP's but I'm guess there will be very good lenses. That may change the ballgame much like RED did for camera market...and I hope it does...!!!