I'm curious. . . who here on RED User is certain they will be buying an Epic X?

[Stephen Pruitt]

I'm very torn about the whole Epic-X/Epic FF35 thing. I'm curious as to who has positively decided (as much as one can be positive at this point, anyway) to purchase the Epic-X system when it becomes available. And, even more importantly, why?

Thanks much.

Stephen

[C.H.Haskell]

Hey Stephen

I am (as of now) an Epic X to be customer and the reasons are basic. Besides the obvious increased sensor size, fps, dynamic range etc, I simply appreciate the S35 format and the glass available to cover it. I want to own a lighter and more modular R1.

[mikeburton]

I'm passing on the Epic-X and gonna wait for either the FF35 or the 645. Not sure which one yet but it will be one of the two to take full advantage of my anamorphics. The Epic-X is tempting and will be more so when it's closer to being shipped but I would rather use my trade in value towards the camera I really want.

[Häakon]

I think I've pretty much decided that regardless of my choice to get a FF35 at some point down the road, I'm definitely getting an Epic-X. Mostly because I have a passion for (and am in the business of) making movies and there's no reason to wait around for something "even better" when what we've got is already fantastic. I was just looking at some RED ONE dailies on Blu-ray and reminded of how insanely beautiful this footage can be. The Epic-X is already a big step up in a lot of ways. Sure, a little more dynamic range is always nice and when the FF35s finally ship I'll probably want one of those, too. But RED isn't exactly known for sticking to schedules and I'd rather be out shooting than inside waiting. Plus, the Epic-X will have more resolution in s35 mode than the FF35 and I personally consider that to be an important variable. Of course all of this is based on speculation and information that we've been given from RED; none of these cameras exist yet. But given their track record in the last couple of years, I think 2009 is going to be a remarkable year for digital cinema no matter which camera suits you best.

[Steve Gal]

Can't you get the Epic X and then upgrade the brain when the FF35 comes out. I am sure you could sell the old brain when the time comes.

[Justin O'Neill]

I will definitely be upgrading my REDs to EPIC X.

I figure if there is at least a 6 month window between EPIC X and EPIC FF35 the EPIC Xs should be able to bring in enough to buy an FF35 or two.

[Joel Kaye]

I'm leaning to EPIC X because I think Monstro will be a year behind EPIC-X despite what it currently says on the website. If Monstro truly is only a few months behind X then I think RED should skip it, launch Scarlet with the Mysterium X and have all Epic's be monstros.

It is a very confusing product matrix. I just went back to the page on RED.com and got a headache.

[Peter McCully]

It is a very confusing product matrix. I just went back to the page on RED.com and got a headache.

Which is the reason I've stopped even thinking now about what I'll choose then and when.

[Jose Poernomo]

I'll get whatever available, so if X is going to be the first, then I will gonna get it. If then come FF35, will upgrade it again.

Because whatever will be out by then, surely it is going to be the best of the rest.



there's no reason to wait around for something "even better" when what we've got is already fantastic.

Agreed.



José

[Zakaree Sandberg]

passing on X

[Poi Boy]

I'm in for X all the way. X will be far better than One and gets me into the system at an incredibly attractive price. Beyond that, as others have said who knows how long the other goodies will take to get to market. The 645 and 617 are ultimately where I want to go, we'll see how long it take to get there. Good fun !
Aloha
-A

[michael zaletel]

I will upgrade. I absolutely want 4K at 125fps and 2k at 250fps. I also know the still image quality will be much better like going from a Canon Digital Rebel XTi to a 5D Mark II the difference being I will be able to shoot 125 of those each second.

-shooter

[Tim Whitcomb]

I will be buying my first couple used Red One's when all these early adopters upgrade to EPIC because I agree, the Red One already IS an incredible camera and as a filmmaker, I will take a great script shot on a DVX-100 over crap shot on an FF35 Monstro anyday;)

So hurry up Red, pump out those Epic's so I can score some trade in Red One's for Sub $10K :P

[Evin Grant]

I'll upgrade to an Epic-X, I have an early enough serial number to pretty much guarantee ROI before the FF or 645 come out. My second purchase will ideally be a 645 but we'll have to see how the delivery timing works out.

[Chip G]

Has Red set up a program yet or announced the details of all the used Red's they will be taking on trade for Epic? It's gotta be 500+ camera's? Maybe 1,000+?

[Robin Moran]

Definitely upgrading. Buy another brain as per necessary for production.

[Hans von Sonntag]

I will get a Epic-X. There are economical as well as historical reasons to do so:

a. Red's cameras are cheap. My RedOne paid already for it self. When I'm in the line for an EpicX it's going to be probably another year until it will be delivered - spring 2010. Until then my RedOne has earned double or more of it's investment.

b. I'm monitoring Red's success since three years or more. They never fullfilled the estimated delivery until they got in the high-numbers of the RedOne. Also, they over-fullfilled the proclaimed specs. Both does also count for acessories.


From these two perspectives I assume that:

1. Epic-X will be delayed. Red has now gained a lot of experience, no doubt - but designing a new camera is still a challenge and the modules are a new concept. To bring that into life is a big, big challenge. They will succeed but it will take a while.

2. Epic-X' sensor will be better than now advertised, a real and visible upgrade to RedOne. The worldwide industry is looking at them very, very carfully. If Epic-X won't be a superior camera the rockstars will move to the next boat.

3. The third generation sensors (monstro) will be delayed even more - simply because they must be quantum leap. I think that's what Jim Jannard wants.

Conclusion: In the meantime, between Epic-X and Epic-FF, the ROI will be positive and an upgrade to Epic-FF the first real investment in this regard since I bought the RedOne - which by then will be more than 3 years ago.

Hans

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

Do you really have a license plate that says " I do 24P"? If you do, Im at the Fairmont in Santa Monica and could do with a good laugh...just drive it slowly throug the driveway at 11.04PM tonight.
I could settle for less: Someone performing at stupid overacted ninja stunt in the big tree in the driveway...maybe a fullburn would be cool. I bet several REDusers on Harleys and with strap-on REDs sporting the Birgermüslimounts and some sigma lenses could perfect my experience.But we will need a DUT to wrangle all that beautiful data.
Ohh the sheer talent we wil see on that great day.. Remember to bring your oakley sunglasses so we can all look really cool.
Joking aside, I just finished shooting a feature using my RED, and must say the images are really really good on print
Epic X is the obvious upgrade choiche

Best JJ DP

[Victoria C]

I will upgrade to Epic-X. Besides the obvious reasons, the weight reduction will be very beneficial for both my shoulder and my jib.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I'll upgrade to an Epic-X, I have an early enough serial number to pretty much guarantee ROI before the FF or 645 come out. My second purchase will ideally be a 645 but we'll have to see how the delivery timing works out.

same.

Plus I'll also pick up a pair of Scarlets for 3D.

[Ramesh Jai]

Someone should start a poll.

[Curran Giddens]

Someone should start a poll.

I started a poll but didn't get many participants.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23458

Here is another poll:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23586

[Matt Uhry]

My purchase plan is to get a Scarlet FF35 ( no trade in ) and then trade the R1 in on a Epic 645. At the end we'd have 2 cameras that can play together nicely. That would work if they held to the proposed schedule. ( No illusions about that happening )

If the Monstro based cam's are looking like they will be more than 6-8 months behind the Epic X I'd try to get an X to fill the gap. Some of the answer to this question is what the "free" accessories are worth, batteries, IO box etc. I'm guessing $4k ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Shawn Booth]

I will be buying my first couple used Red One's when all these early adopters upgrade to EPIC because I agree, the Red One already IS an incredible camera and as a filmmaker, I will take a great script shot on a DVX-100 over crap shot on an FF35 Monstro anyday;)

So hurry up Red, pump out those Epic's so I can score some trade in Red One's for Sub $10K :P

I think RED keeps the trade ins....

OP - Hanging onto my R1, will be purchasing another (hopefully 2) shortly.

I can use the $10K for other things...

[Sidney L. Plaut]

epic x here. slo mo in full rez main reason - another is the old fear of being left behind when evrything goes modular...

[Fredrik Callinggard]

My purchase plan is to get a Scarlet FF35 ( no trade in ) and then trade the R1 in on a Epic 645. At the end we'd have 2 cameras that can play together nicely. That would work if they held to the proposed schedule. ( No illusions about that happening )

If the Monstro based cam's are looking like they will be more than 6-8 months behind the Epic X I'd try to get an X to fill the gap. Some of the answer to this question is what the "free" accessories are worth, batteries, IO box etc. I'm guessing $4k ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Not a bad plan.

[Mickey Conway]

I will definitely be upgrading my REDs to EPIC X.

[I Bloom]

I'm definitely getting Epic-X. I caution everyone else and suggest that they wait for monstro.

[albert rudnicki]

Unless the gap between the x and monstro is really great, I'll pass on the X and wait for the ff35.
In the meantime I'll get the scarlet and I'll stick a big X on it.

[Antoine Fabi]

I'll probably go for the FF35, not because of the chip size, but because of the 16 bit dynamic range.

But Mysterium X Select and REDCODE 250 are unknown beasts that could change my decision.
We will see once we have more info.

Antoine

[Frank Weeks]

I am leaning toward the Epic X but the FF35 is intriguing. Much more homework to do.

[roryhinds]

strange thing is I remember reading somewhere in the beginning of RED that Jim was frustrated with having to buy a new camera every time a better one came along, thus the upgradable R1.

[David Morgan]

We'll be getting into the X, if only because it's a cheaper way into the whole Epic system. Then a Scarlet for a crash cam.

As for the post about Jim and his frustrations at having to buy new cameras, well, I don't think anyone has had to buy a new Red 1 when going from upgrade to upgrade, which you'd have to do with other brands.

[Clayton Harper]

strange thing is I remember reading somewhere in the beginning of RED that Jim was frustrated with having to buy a new camera every time a better one came along, thus the upgradable R1.

Show me another company that is willing to buy back the old hardware in order to help users move to their new system. We have something way better than an upgradable R1 in my opinion.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

cant decide...hoping for a 5k pl mount monstro with higher dynami range
guess hace to choose...right now epic ff35 with pl lens.

[A. Bastaki]

16 bit ff35 please.

[Robin Moran]

Here's a thought. Even though the FF35 is a bigger sensor (plus all benefits associated with it like increase dynamic range, etc), I've noticed that the film lenses that currently exist, either Cooke S4, Arri Master/Ultra Prime, etc. covers the Super35mm format. Does this mean that we either have vignetting on the sensor, or the lens cannot cover the entire sensor and we have to get a new set of lenses just for this sensor? I'm all for FF35 (with Monstro) but to have to invest on a new set of lenses just to accommodate this format (while being incompatible with film camera lenses) may be a little too much. Thoughts anyone?

[Justin O'Neill]

Does this mean that we either have vignetting on the sensor, or the lens cannot cover the entire sensor and we have to get a new set of lenses just for this sensor?

S35 lenses definitely won't cover the whole FF35 sensor. I'm sure there will be a PL mount windowed mode though, just like there are windowed modes on the RED One.

The FF35 is a 6k sensor so you will still be getting plenty of resolution in a PL windowed mode.

You should be able to use still Nikon and Canon 35mm lenses at the full 6k with no vignetting.

[Peter Strietmann]

I will.

[Panos Bournias]

We will go Epic X. We love it and looks so nice... The update costs very little money for what it is, we think...

[Pawel Achtel]

I'll get one.

[Michael Hastings]

I'm definitely getting Epic-X. I caution everyone else and suggest that they wait for monstro.

Ian, such a short post I can't tell if you are (humorously?) suggesting that everyone else hold off on epic-x so you (and I), as early serial numbers, can make back our investment with rentals? If so, I agree - I will upgrade to epic-x and hope everybody else keeps their REDONEs for another six months.:biggrin:

It was very nice that rentals in the early days paid for a large part of my REDONE.

Seriously, it seems to me the smartest play for most is to take the Epic-X deal and then look at the Monstro FF scarlet whenever the monstro becomes available. That way you have two bodies - the Scarlet/Monstro becomes the standard speed camera for high dynamic range/6k res and the epic-x becomes the high speed camera with only slightly lower image quality. And the two bodies back each other up in case of any failure. And maybe adding minimal accessories, you have a second camera.

The investment is about the same (remember if you trade in on epic it is only $5K more but you need to buy the accessories so probably pretty close.

I would be interested to hear opinions against my theory so I can clarify my thinking.

I would also be very interested to have RED consider offering a special package deal for this combo - for example if when we order our epic-x we ordered a scarlet FF35 with a non refundable deposit (maybe $1k ?) we could get say a couple thousand dollar discount or accessory credit. I think that would nail down a lot of additional scarlet ff35 sales, making it easier to gauge initial demand and provide manufacturing savings that would offset the discount.

How about it Jim?

[Alexander Nikishin]

It was very nice that rentals in the early days paid for a large part of my REDONE.

Yes, but that was a brand new camera technology at a price point that was unheard of in combination with YEAAAARS of anticipation and promise.

I highly doubt that the average client (Unless you have high-end clientele) would be willing to pay much more than they would for a current RED One (Which is currently raking in leaves instead of gold nuggets like it did in October of '07 on the rental market).

Plus.... If you're using S35 glass on a S35 sensor such as the Epic X, fine, but if you're using it on a FF35 sensor you've now got a crop factor playing in. Also, the data rate, resolution and DR will vary with both cameras thus affecting your footage in the same manner.

I still think the smartest train of thought is to go with the FF Scarlet, then FF Epic, thus allowing for a wider target rental market and price points to offer to clients. And of course, no work-arounds when changing glass.

That's my opinion.

Personally, I'm going to upgrade my R1 with the new sensor vs. swapping the whole body....Wait for Scarlet FF35 and add a 645 once that's available.

[JanneJansson]

With my current budget, I'll be lucky to get a T-shirt of the Epic-X... anyone need dirt cheep camera guy? Located: Waaaaay to north in scandinavia.

[David Collard]

I don't think it's fair to expect Red to indefinitely take your R1 in for a trade-in. There should be a timeframe once new products are released. We are indebted to Jim's company, not the other way around.

[I Bloom]

Ian, such a short post I can't tell if you are (humorously?) suggesting that everyone else hold off on epic-x so you (and I), as early serial numbers, can make back our investment with rentals? If so, I agree - I will upgrade to epic-x and hope everybody else keeps their REDONEs for another six months.:biggrin:

Sarcasm doesn't translate well to text.

I have faith in Jim's ability to sell me stuff. When monstro becomes available I know he'll make me another deal I can't pass up.
I think the notion of the red rental market imploding under it's own success is chicken little, but all the same I'm excited about more expensive cameras coming online.

Just testing some new crimson stuff on some red footage I shot today and I have to say I am consistently astonished by Red One footage. And I've been shooting on Red since 07 and it still blows my mind every time I get it fully debayered and into color correction. Pulling detail out of unfiltered windows today, thinking this is amazing dynamic range. Now the idea of a camera like this shooting 5K at 100fps is just insane.

But really. Everybody. Except me. Monstro is going to be worth the wait guys. Be cautious and don't take unnecessary risks in life. It's too short.

IBloom

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Monstro FF35 for me...

Actually, my current upgrade plan looks like this:

Buy fixed lens scarlet, Buy Scarlet FF35, Trade RED One in on EPIC 645. Of course, that may change. I had a different outlook on it two weeks ago. Epic-X is only appealing to me because it's a new toy that will be the first of the EPIC cameras to ship and because it includes some of the modules for free. But the free doesn't interest me as much as getting the cameras that fit me. I'm also faithful that Jim will offer us many reasons to upgrade to different camera models at different times. I'm perfectly happy to hold onto my RED One until I can buy an EPIC FF35 or 645. Like Ian, I'm continuously blown away by RED One images.

[jimhare]

I plan to upgrade. Not so much because I am hungry for the extra DR, features, lower weight and other cool stuff, but because I thinks it's very important to be on the Epic Train for the future. That's where the action will be.

Jim

[Tim Whitcomb]

I still have not seen a post from RED saying that the serial number matters for upgrading? Please PM me or point me. Thanks.

Are there any fimmakers on here ? Seems like everybody wants to become a RENTAL Profiteer.

The days of a start up beta testing cameras are numbered...and likely wont be repeated, as it was with RED ONE. The company is growing.

This is business, RED should rent cameras too, as they deserve the REVENUE, afterall they invented these cameras.

If I were them, I would ONLY rent the new Cameras for a while until they had capacity to fill upgrade orders.

Ultiamtely, feeding a 500 first buyers is not going to let them pay for what Im sure is multi-million dollar development costs.

Not sure how many industrial designers are on here, but the DIE's alone for these cameras can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

no disrespect, but people are naive if they think what happened with RED ONE will be repeated with EPIC.

In that you will get those sick $4000/wk Rental Rates. That was rape.
Why do you think RED will delay shipping units so you can make money renting their camera?

Just curious.

They are smart, they dont enjoy the delays anymore than you guys do. I trust they hate it worse, Im sure. Depending on their funding source, they have benchmarks and deadlines... or they lose funding... (unless Im mistaken here) it costs money for most companies to delay shipping.

Ultimately, this is a business... and while the loyalty on here is great...and any company would envy that loyalty. RED would be unwise to ship EPIC or Scarlett's at the same pace they filled RED ONE orders.

ITs unfair to people who bought later serial numbers...who did NOT get to rent their cameras to pay for it.

I for one , could care less of I rent a camera I own. I wouldnt want some loser breaking it... so I have to be punished so early serial numbers guys can rent the new cameras at GOUGE rates?

All I know, is this remarkable sense of entitlement on here, is really starting to annoy me. Sorry.

Where does it say you have all these priviledges just because you bought a low serial number camera?

Where does it say I wont have the same option to upgrade if I buy Serial number 5600? Why would I buy a RED ONE now if thats true?

Just curious. Nobody seems to be answering this question?

Thank you.

[Curran Giddens]

I think Offhollywood (6 & 7) and Steve Gibby (8 etc.) deserve to get first dibs on the new cameras. Just like Mike Curtis, even though he's #417, deserves to cut in line. :wink:

I submitted my camera reservation form only after Mike reported from NAB that there were already a few hundred reservations. At least then I won't be the only one to fall for the "scam."

For those who think it is unfair, at least early serial numbers no longer get to cut in line on new accessories. Accessories are now first come, first serve. :huh:

[Perry Ho]

I will go for FF35, the R1 still good enough for me to use in Mainland China till the FF35 available for me to up grade, so, I will wait for it...

Perry Ho
Dop - Mainland China

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I still have not seen a post from RED saying that the serial number matters for upgrading? Please PM me or point me. Thanks.

...Been said lots of times. Serial #'s kinda matter, but what matters most is when you took delivery of your RED One. Just because you have #200, you don't get the 200th spot in line for EPIC if you waited until June of '08 to take delivery, you would actually be lumped in with others of that time-frame, mostly #'s in the 1400-1500 range. They have said that manufacturing of Scarlet and Epic will ramp up a lot faster than with the RED One.


Are there any fimmakers on here ? Seems like everybody wants to become a RENTAL Profiteer.

Reporting for duty, sir. Well, I'm not really a "filmmaker" in the sense of narrative or documentary filmmaking. But I'm not looking to buy these cameras to make rental $$$. Although, I'm thinking if I guy the 645, it could have some rental potential, that isn't my reasoning for buying it. IMO, buying a camera with the intent of making rental income with it, is fine if you are an established rental company with an existing base of customers. If you're a small owner/op, I think you're wasting your time. You better be able to provide a lot of added value with your rental -- such as being a skilled operator and/or DIT, DP, etc.. I've said it before. Hire yourself out for your skills... Bring the camera along as part of the deal.


The days of a start up beta testing cameras are numbered...and likely wont be repeated, as it was with RED ONE. The company is growing.

yep.


This is business, RED should rent cameras too, as they deserve the REVENUE, afterall they invented these cameras.

I would like to see this. However, I don't think RED is ready for this just yet. In order to do this effectively, they will need more locations in which to sell and/or operate from. They will need to get their own line of optics out there (RED Primes, hello?), along with a lot more support in the field. I think that's why so many of us have been looking for RED to offer a sales rep program or something of that nature. I'd like to be able to offer a local RED sales and support center. RED has been collecting info from people who may be interested, but that is as far as it's gone. However, at the same time, I truly admire their direct-sales approach and from a consumer point of view, hope they stick close to that model. It will ultimately hold down purchase costs. I think satellite locations would be great more for support and rentals rather than direct sales. But wouldn't it be handy if you could just run by your local RED sales center and buy that cable you need? For those in LA, the RED Store is accessible. For everyone else, we have to place our order, wait 2 to 4 days for it to ship, wait for FedEx to deliver...


If I were them, I would ONLY rent the new Cameras for a while until they had capacity to fill upgrade orders.

Oooh, no, bad.... Sell, sell, sell!


Ultiamtely, feeding a 500 first buyers is not going to let them pay for what Im sure is multi-million dollar development costs.

Probably so, but I think we can trust Jim and his RED Team to know how to pay for what they do.


Not sure how many industrial designers are on here, but the DIE's alone for these cameras can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Of course they do, but then again, we can only speculate about their funding and business plan. I leave it in their hands.


In that you will get those sick $4000/wk Rental Rates. That was rape.
Why do you think RED will delay shipping units so you can make money renting their camera?

Those initial rental rates were pretty rare, even with the first 50~100 cameras. But it's a free market, if someone is foolish enough to pay such high rates for a camera, then that's their business. I don't see EPIC bringing in huge rental rates... But I bet if I'm the first on the block to get one, I'll have a lot of new friends. Kinda like when you buy any other cool new toy that people find out about.


Ultimately, this is a business... and while the loyalty on here is great...and any company would envy that loyalty. RED would be unwise to ship EPIC or Scarlett's at the same pace they filled RED ONE orders.

Yes, and I don't expect that they will. It should be much faster. They had better be ramped up on fixed-lens Scarlet before they start shipping it. Every hobbyist, semi-pro, and up is going to want wan. When I go to some school function for my kids later this year, I bet I'm not the only dad who shows up with a Scarlet. I see enough gadget-dads with FX1's, HVX's, etc..


ITs unfair to people who bought later serial numbers...who did NOT get to rent their cameras to pay for it.

What's unfair? Such is life. Not everyone can be first in line. Everyone has the opportunity to do so. Being #1 on RED's reservation list only took a fax, a phone call, or a trip to the RED booth at NAB '06.


I for one , could care less of I rent a camera I own. I wouldnt want some loser breaking it... so I have to be punished so early serial numbers guys can rent the new cameras at GOUGE rates?

How are you being punished? What makes you think everyone who gets an Epic out of the first shipment will rent it out? And even then will gouge their customers? So what if they do?


All I know, is this remarkable sense of entitlement on here, is really starting to annoy me. Sorry.

I'm confused now.


Where does it say you have all these priviledges just because you bought a low serial number camera?

Free market society. Perhaps you should move somewhere that still employs complete capitalistic repression through strict communism. What privileges are you talking about? A place in line? RED has said over and over again that they will reward their initial customers, early adopters, etc.. They continue to do this by allowing the first to buy a RED One to be among the first in line to buy an Epic. Simple.


Where does it say I wont have the same option to upgrade if I buy Serial number 5600? Why would I buy a RED ONE now if thats true?

If you buy a RED One now, probably Serial #63xx or thereabouts, you have all the same rights as the person who bought a year ago and has #200. The only catch is that for upgrading to Epic, you are further down the line. However, ramping up of Epic production is supposed to happen a lot faster. I'm willing to bet that Epic back-orders will be solved in a matter of 2 to 3 months, rather than 10.5 months like with the RED One. You also have to consider that many people in line will not go for Epic, but will rather go down to Scarlet. Many will keep their RED One for the time being and not upgrade just yet. Either for financial reasons or to wait for something other than Epic-X..

Another thing to look at is if you buy a RED One now, you get the new audio board, the new CF reader module. I'm #1110 and I'm probably a couple months away from my upgraded audio board and I'm still waiting on my new CF reader module and back-ordered 16GB cards. But I have RED RAM :bleh:

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hi there, Jeff. . .

Since my first RED was #791 and we got the "upgrade email" several weeks ago, I'll bet that you are probably just about dead on on your estimate for your camera.

Stephen

[Steve Gibby]

I will absolutely be buying an Epic X. Beyond that, I'll definitely be buying two fixed lens Scarlet, a FF35 Scarlet, and a FF35 Epic.

Bring 'em on...

BTW - depending on workflow needs, I may also buy more Scarlets and Epics after that.

My equipment gets used by me and my crews on my own projects, and contract productions we work on. I don't rent out my equipment, although when needed I'm a hired gun on other people's projects using my equipment.

On another note, the support given to RED by early adopters, when basically almost the entire industry was screaming "vaporware!", was deeply appreciated by RED, and thus the reciprocation by RED in offering early adopters first crack at Scarlet and Epic. Those who question that simply don't have the flick on the karma circle of rewarding risk-taking support by customers. Yes, we early adopters not only risked our funds, but we also risked our professional reputations by making such an early move on RED. As it turned out, it was an extremely wise gamble on our part. I've known Jim Jannard for a long time, and he especially appreciates those who had the courage to take the early RED leap with him. Its now extremely easy for people to bring themselves to adopt RED - but it was a way different situation back in 2005 and early 2006.

[Hans von Sonntag]

.

Another thing to look at is if you buy a RED One now, you get the new audio board, the new CF reader module. I'm #1110 and I'm probably a couple months away from my upgraded audio board and I'm still waiting on my new CF reader module and back-ordered 16GB cards. But I have RED RAM :bleh:

Jeff, you'll be next. I'm 945 and sent my camera to Red already.

Hans

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I will be buying 3 Epic X and then sell them for FF Epic

Edit: Sorry meant upgrading

[Anson Fogel]

Absolutely, will upgrade to X. Like Gibby, I'm shooting landscapes and sports in remote locations with a 1-3 man crew hauling gear in on foot/skis/rafts/bikes, and 2 critical advantages make it a no brainer -

1. 4K overcranked to 100+ FPS - this is huge for me - 2K does not cut it, and the overcrank ability is one of the main reasons I own RED

2. Weight. For obvious reasons.

Plus all the other advantages.

No brainer.

[Brian Reisdorf]

I still have not seen a post from RED saying that the serial number matters for upgrading? Please PM me or point me. Thanks.


Here you go, in Jim's own words no less. (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=336631&postcount=4i)




Are there any fimmakers on here ? Seems like everybody wants to become a RENTAL Profiteer.


I'm sure most of us are filmmakers, but we're not ALWAYS working on our own stuff. It's generally a much sweeter deal to let your investment pay for itself when you're not using it.




no disrespect, but people are naive if they think what happened with RED ONE will be repeated with EPIC.


Have you ever bought a newly released camera before? Even the HVX-200 was hard to find for the first month of its life. Bigger cameras usually aren't released in numbers large enough to satisfy EVERY order right away and tend to slowly fill the market over the course of a few months.




Why do you think RED will delay shipping units so you can make money renting their camera?


Are....are you serious? I'm pretty sure no one here as thought that, ever.




ITs unfair to people who bought later serial numbers...who did NOT get to rent their cameras to pay for it.


Wait, so because someone got a low serial camera and made some money off it, it's not fair for you because you ordered a camera X amount of time after and didn't make the same money? That's quite the sense of entitlement.




I for one , could care less of I rent a camera I own. I wouldnt want some loser breaking it... so I have to be punished so early serial numbers guys can rent the new cameras at GOUGE rates?


This makes no sense at all. You don't want to rent a camera, but you're terribly upset that someone else makes money renting theirs? It's pretty obvious that you're not familiar with the rental business, as you've condemned exactly how it works. Someone has a camera you want, but can't have (because of price/availablity), so they let you have it temporarily for money.

If you think low serial guys suck because you can't have a camera before them, check out how Panavision, the premier rental house, does it's business. I'll be expecting a post soon about how thoroughly disgusted you are with their business practice.
Hint: You can't buy their cameras...EVER.




All I know, is I have this remarkable sense of entitlement on here, and it is really starting to annoy everyone.


I went ahead and fixed this one for you.




Where does it say you have all these priviledges just because you bought a low serial number camera?


There's a full list of our benefits, discounts and an epic delivery schedule (with pre-planned delays) posted in the "I have a <200 serial number!" private subforum. Oh wai....

Seriously though, other than the slight discount for the Epic-X and scarlett, there's no big benefit to having a low number other than you're right there in the front of the line if you choose to upgrade. It's posted in several places.




Where does it say I wont have the same option to upgrade if I buy Serial number 5600? Why would I buy a RED ONE now if thats true?


If you buy a RED One, you have the same options to upgrade as everyone else, including trading it up for an Epic-X. If you don't buy a RED One, you can't get an E-X. With all due respect, your frustrations are quite easy to research and answer with some quick forum searches, yet all you've seemed to do lately is complain about low serial number camera owners ruining your day in multiple threads.




Just curious. Nobody seems to be answering this question?


Done.




Thank you.

You're Welcome.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks Jeff ,appreciate the detailed responses... I realize my angst was reflected here, but was actually from reading some other threads...

that entitlement quote came from my annoyance with a couple low
numbers guys talking about how they cant wait to make the $
on the Epics and Scarletts that they did on the RED ONE.

Probably should have included that context... but still figuring out
this forum.

I totally get first ... im just trying to determine if its worth paying a premium
for a low serial number as I really want an EPIC... or if its going to be a reasonable wait, then to just get the RED ONE now.

I also have a wall street background so Im always interested how startups
approach business... my brother is also a corp finance banker and partner at Think Equity. Im always scouting for the next IPO.

I need to do more research on RED ROOTS...

as always, I do find the passion and loyalty intoxicating on here... reminds me of Apple in the 1980's :)

but some people are fanatical and delusional in my humble opinion.

I also appreciate the info on the advances on the RED ONE... im probably going to just buy a new one... thanks!

[Tim Whitcomb]

Mr. Brian Reisdorf...

excuse me? What is with the LAME LIBELOUS Assault, Mr know it all?

I had some of the FIRST SONY EX-1's last year. It was about a 3 month lead time, not 3 years.

I bought one of the FIRST Letus Ultimate Adapters. 10th I believe, as Hien Le
who makes them lives in Portland.

I was one of the first to buy the EX-1 fix for the BREVIS Adapter.

I just had not even seen a RED work, until Shawn Nelson showed up at my
studio with one in 2008 to shoot a trailer and was blown away. He is number 26 I believe and Im happy he made his $ back and then some.

Uncanny how wrong your assumptions were.

I asked legitimate questions. I was frustrated and its this cocky sense of entitlement I speak of...

guess I hit a nerve huh? why else would you respond so acerbically?

my signature does say Kind Regards... may I suggest some deep breathing and relaxation excercises? or you can come visit me anytime and Ill
be happy to help you work on that attitude...

Im simply trying to determine whether to buy NEW or pay a premium for a EARLY Serial number as I want an EPIC... in case you havent figured it out.

A good debate is one thing, pretending like you can sense emotion from electrons is a bit egomanical... as is trying to psychoanalyze my written words. I am flattered though, you give me so much energy.

I also appreciate your differing opinions on business practices as well. But why not quote the whole thread instead of taking what I wrote out of context?

And changing my words in a REAL NAME
forum? That is libelous, childish, disrespectful and crosses the line.

I PM'd you my address if you want to try and demonstrate your manhood
in the real world...

meantime, its probably not a good idea to shit where you eat.

That said, I DO appreciate the link. THAT is all you had to post.


with all due respect.

[Stephen Williams]

I submitted my camera reservation form only after Mike reported from NAB that there were already a few hundred reservations. At least then I won't be the only one to fall for the "scam."
:

Hi,

Serial no 561 would have been reserved during IBC in September not at NAB.

Stephen

[Brian Reisdorf]

Tim, your post was very disjointed, your language was harsh, and your conclusions were obviously quickly reached, and faulty. Yes I had some fun at your expense, but really, you did everything but ask for it. You jump on an extensive forum and instead of looking for the information you seek, you post what amounts to ranting about things you didn't bother to try to understand in the first place? The information is out there, and it is rather easy to find. Asking for it in the way you did is not discussion nor debate, and it did nothing to further the topic at hand.

I would have happily told you exactly what I thought of your post if we were aquianted, as I typically point out to my friends when they do something odd, or possibly foolish, for there own good, as they do me. A little refinement of your thoughts, a bit of research, and a little more time editing your posts would go a long way towards clearly communicating the nature and tone of your questions next time...all of which would almost certain receive a more effective response.

Almost forgot...
+10 pts - Threatening lawsuit.
+10 pts - Threatening physical harm 'in real life'.

Nice start! At 100 'internet tough guy points' you get a fruit basket :-)



In any case, I'm done busting your chops, I suppose I'm just slightly bitter about the quality of these forums these days. I'm all for helping people out , but a bit of tough love on some of the new folks would go a long way to decrease the amount of noise and repeated questions here to a large degree...I'm kinda surprised that's not the case already given that it's essentially Jim's very own style. Oh well.

[Curran Giddens]

Hi,

Serial no 561 would have been reserved during IBC in September not at NAB.

Stephen

You are correct, as usual.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Tim, your post was very disjointed, your language was harsh, and your conclusions were obviously quickly reached, and faulty. Yes I had some fun at your expense, but really, you did everything but ask for it.

Let's give it a rest, guys. It's done. Brian, you have more than made your point and your altered quotations of Tim's post are just not cool. That's pretty much a guaranteed nomination for reduser douchebag of the week.

As for the state of the forums these days, noise, etc.. I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done. Us mods could run through the forums and just start deleting every post that amounts to "noise", but then we would have an incoherent mess -- more so than we do now. And I think we would piss off everyone in doing so. There is always a certain unavoidable level of noise or chatter in a venue like this. The noise floor raises with every new member that signs on. More people = more noise. If you all feel that I should start eliminating some noise, I may as well start by deleting this entire thread.

And to get back on topic... I said above, I would probably buy Scarlet FF35 and then hold out to trade in my RED One for Epic 645. Probably not getting Epic-X. That still may work, but I have a hunch that I may just pick up an Epic-X, too. I guess that depends on how far away Monstro appears to be when my Epic-X number comes up. I'd probably save the trade-in of my One for that 645, though, not that it really matters, but depending on which cameras arrive when, I may more may not want to keep my RED One as long.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks Jeff- Your assessment needs no further commentary.

I have only been on here less than a month because I did not want to waste anybody's time until I was in a position to make a purchase. I have spent dozens of hours a week this month researching and already have 32 posts and several threads started...

I have found 99% of people on here amenable, helpful and positive.

With the occasional "privileged" user, thinking somehow they were superior because they found about RED before I did.

Especially amusing is that the LOUDEST ones have nearly a two years head start, but very few posts... For instance, I already have 25% as many posts as he does.

32 in a month versus - his 127 since 2007.

I again thank you for the intelligent and helpful comments in helping me to make a decision.

That said... I have NOT noticed one single user pick EPIC 617... its almost too intimidating I think...

I am fascinated to see how this all shakes out, REDCODE wise with that 617 sensor It certainly opens up some opportunities in visual effects that could make the Matrix look like TRON. But where do you do your online? NASA or NORAD's super computer?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That said... I have NOT noticed one single user pick EPIC 617... its almost too intimidating I think...

There's a few of us who are very interested in the 617. I am, I know that Offhollywood is and I'm sure many others. I have a couple ideas that would be perfectly suited to that camera that I'm not willing to share at this time. :tongue:

Additionally, the 617 would be a phenomenal replacement for 617 panoramic film cameras. It would be the ultimate tool for digital signage, large format print, billboards, you name it. In the next few years, I predict we're going to see a huge increase in digital projection, large electronic billboard systems and more. This is THE CAMERA for that. Oh yeah, it would be perfect for VFX work too. The 617 is definitely on my "buy list", provided I can line up the jobs and the funds. I will probably rent one a time or two before making the purchase.

[Häakon]

Im simply trying to determine whether to buy NEW or pay a premium for a EARLY Serial number as I want an EPIC... in case you havent figured it out.
Hi,

You don't need an early serial number (or even a RED ONE at all, for that matter) to buy an EPIC. You do need to purchase a RED ONE if you want an EPIC-X. And the earlier the serial number RED ONE you have, the earlier you have an opportunity to take possession of an EPIC-X. But there are other EPIC choices available which do not require having purchased a RED ONE. How quickly you want it is the only real question.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks... no worries about stealing your IP here, my focus is on providing Oregon's first facility dedicated to Independent Narrative and Documentary Filmmaking.

This is a big commercial town, and while I have nothing against that, there is also an amazingly robust film community here, but very few affordable resources.

There are about 12 Red One's as well, so we want an EPIC and 2 Scarlett's so we can cover every budget range from $50K to $5M features.

Thats the plan anyway. In this economy, who knows.

Meantime, I would love to be a fly on the wall at Sony or Panasonic or Canon or JVC

when they saw this announcement for RED EPIC and SCARLET.

The next couple years are going to be exciting, that is for sure!

[Tim Whitcomb]

PS. Brian- you will be glad to know, I just found the SEARCH button on the top
of the user boards...

Cant believe I missed that, I was looking for a search box and could never find one.

DOH! my bad

[Tim Whitcomb]

In the next few years, I predict we're going to see a huge increase in digital projection, large electronic billboard systems and more.

So in essence, RED is essentially helping bring those eerie DRINK COKE... and VIST THE OFFWORLD COLONIES billboards from BLADE RUNNER to life...??

Yes, I do see the projection and exhibition experience being turned on its ear as well, then throw in 3-D and basically REPLICANTS will be walking the earth as actors will finally be out of jobs... machines will then take over our world,
humans will then blacken the sky to cut their power source... hmmm

and it all started with an idea to invent a modular and affordable digital film camera....

[Alex Carr]

#778 will be upgrading to Epic X. My intention was never to make a profit off of my rental Package. I have always used my red to get me a job vs. just renting it out.

DP's who love the images from Red One will love a 35mm Sensor with a Higher Bitrate, and will likely ask for more if it is available. Plus it makes your package much more desirable against the other ~2000+ cameras in LA.

A normal Rental is not as much of an adventure as being a 1st AC with your camera out of the country.

[Brian Reisdorf]

PS. Brian- you will be glad to know, I just found the SEARCH button on the top
of the user boards...

Cant believe I missed that, I was looking for a search box and could never find one.

DOH! my bad

Good deal Tim, your other post just rubbed me the wrong way given the rash of new members 'jumping in the deep end without learning how to swim' if you will. There's nothing wrong with questions if you can't find the answers though, that's what we're here for. There's an incredible wealth of information already here, which is also coincidently why I have so few posts of my own. Virtually any question can be answered with a couple quick searches.

That said, enjoy losing a week or so digging through over all the info buried in the site!

[Shawn Nelson]

I'll be getting the Epic X. Hopefully the shipping is delayed a bit to let me get some coin, as I never even broke even on #27x, so I may need to go knock over a few old ladies or sell a child to get the funds, but it should happen.

I'll probably end up shipping my EpicX #27 to NY to recoup the costs during those critical first few months. That was my big fuck up with Red, I was determined to rent to the Portland market. Biiigggg mistake, Portland 'experts' would call me, talk to me, email me and then not rent. Instead they'd pay MORE than what I was asking to get a 5 year old Varicam setup. Now that it's accepted, they rent from the rental shops that can pair the camera with $60k of accessories (plus the $40k Red package) along with grip&elec, etc.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'll probably end up shipping my EpicX #27 to NY to recoup the costs during those critical first few months. That was my big fuck up with Red, I was determined to rent to the Portland market. Biiigggg mistake, Portland 'experts' would call me, talk to me, email me and then not rent. Instead they'd pay MORE than what I was asking to get a 5 year old Varicam setup. Now that it's accepted, they rent from the rental shops that can pair the camera with $60k of accessories (plus the $40k Red package) along with grip&elec, etc.

Yeah, I think that's a good move, Shawn. It's tough to rent out a camera package unless you have all the support gear, accessories, glass, etc.. to go with it. You have a nice early number and could recover some of your investment rather quickly, maybe even all of your upgrade costs to go to Epic-X I think, if you place your camera with a rental house in NY or LA for a few months.

[Stephen Pruitt]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs. I just rent them locally to friends from time to time, but even then I get the willies. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with having to ship my pups all over the country on rentals.

As for Epic-X, I've really enjoyed reading the comments and reasons behind the comments here so far. I'm literally torn. The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED, so I really don't quite know what to do with the Epic-X. I'll probably go the Epic-X route for a specialty (high speed camera) and then buy the 6K Scarlet FF35 when it comes out, but, again, that's not what I want.

I still have time to decide, and RED still has time to rectify the non-Monstro 5K S35 error, but I don't know when I've been so torn on a decision in my life!

This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?

Stephen

[Steve Gal]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs. I just rent them locally to friends from time to time, but even then I get the willies. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with having to ship my pups all over the country on rentals.

As for Epic-X, I've really enjoyed reading the comments and reasons behind the comments here so far. I'm literally torn. The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED, so I really don't quite know what to do with the Epic-X. I'll probably go the Epic-X route for a specialty (high speed camera) and then buy the 6K Scarlet FF35 when it comes out, but, again, that's not what I want.

I still have time to decide, and RED still has time to rectify the non-Monstro 5K S35 error, but I don't know when I've been so torn on a decision in my life!

This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?

Stephen

You have to close your eyes and pick one and then never look back.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Why don't you just pick it for me?

"Hey, Mary! We've got to spring for an Epic-X!"

"But why?"

"Cause the guys on REDUser all said so, that's why."

That ought to work out just fine.

:-)

Stephen

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs. I just rent them locally to friends from time to time, but even then I get the willies. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with having to ship my pups all over the country on rentals.

No, you're not alone... I get the willies renting my camera out. It's actually only gone out once without me along as DIT, AC or operator. I don't ship the camera, just rent in the local area. The market for RED is pretty saturated in the US these days. There were no killer rental earnings to be made by the time my #1110 shipped. These days, people don't hire me for the camera, only had two jobs I'm aware of where me owning the RED was a factor. I've received more work for owning a Cooke 18-100 than I have for owning the RED One. And I wouldn't recommend anyone pick up that lens if they think it will get them work. It won't... I'm just sayin that people call asking about that lens more than they call asking about the camera.


The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED, so I really don't quite know what to do with the Epic-X.

I've said it in one or two other threads before, but... You do realize that the camera you describe is most likely the Epic-X, right? Think about it. What is the difference between the Mysterium-X and Monstro sensor, that we know of? Monstro has increased DR, that seems to be the big thing that people are looking at. It is potentially faster in terms of read/reset times and it looks like it can offer some higher frame rates. But look at it this way: The Monstro has larger photosites - almost 17% larger. What if shrinking the Monstro photosites down to 5 microns to give the 5K @ S35 gave it the same DR and imaging properties of Mysterium-X? What if Monstro is in fact the same sensor design as the Mysterium-X, but with larger photosites to increase sensitivity and DR? The increased sensitivity could then allow for a faster ADC->DSP pipeline, thus increasing read/reset times and delivering overall better specs, faster frame rates, etc.. But at the expense of resolution.

RED most likely will offer an S35-sized Monstro sensor. However, it will mostly likely come as an upgrade to the RED One. It will provide increased DR at a lower resolution. That figures out to roughly 4.2K instead of 4.5K. Which means the current 4K window we are used to would actually be 3.8K. Still plenty to give good 2K~3K results out of the RED One.


I'll probably go the Epic-X route for a specialty (high speed camera) and then buy the 6K Scarlet FF35 when it comes out, but, again, that's not what I want.

If you don't really need both cameras, wouldn't it make more sense to just buy the Epic FF35?


This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?

It is a bit crazy. IMO, I think RED should keep the Scarlet line just as it is planned. But I think they should only offer the EPIC FF35, 645 and 617. The EPIC S35 and EPIC-X just seem like a misfit offering to me. ...Just my $0.02.

Quite honestly, if they had never announced an EPIC S35 or the EPIC-X loyalty package, I don't think anyone would be requesting an S35 monstro EPIC. Instead the perception would be more like, "Hey! they went to FULL FRAME! Woooohooooo!

Of course, then there would probably be the crowd who would want a Mysterium-X based EPIC camera and that group would be whining because they don't want to pay the extra for Monstro, but want the frame rates and features of EPIC and there's already an S35 Mysterium-X in Scarlet and blah, blah, blah...

[Shawn Nelson]

Why don't you just pick it for me?

"Hey, Mary! We've got to spring for an Epic-X!"

"But why?"

"Cause the guys on REDUser all said so, that's why."

That ought to work out just fine.

:-)

Stephen

Internet peer pressure is great reason to buy things :-)

What? It worked for me on the cigar boards! Lol :innocent:

[Curran Giddens]

The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED . . .

You are right. It won't be made. It is impossible to fit 5K resolution in an S35 frame size because of Monstro's larger photosites.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Well, physics I can deal with, so if it is simply a matter of physics, then RED's off the hook.

:-)

But I really do want that higher DR and bit depth, so I guess I'll just. . .

. . . oh. . . who knows what I'll do. . .

:-(

Stephen

[Curran Giddens]

yeah, one thing I do know is that I'm going to start saving for the new cameras now. I started doing my taxes, and, well lets just say I spent waaaay to much money last year.

I want to wait for the Monstro's, but when my number comes up and I see how much those free modules are worth, who knows what I'll do . . .

[Brice Ansel]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs.
This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?Stephen

Same here,
since I received the red one in april 08, I always said no to rent it out. And believe me sometime the money who was proposed for the puppy was really tempting. I don't want to substitute to a professional renting house. To much pressure, to much responsability.
As a director view I don't think I'll take a risk on a project renting out gear to a non establish company. Especially when finding the found take sometime more than a year.
To come back to your topic, 120 Fps at 4k seems a good argument to choose the epic X
But as everything is subject to change let's wait a bit, as for now I'm a really happy shooter.

[Mike Peters]

Epic FF35

why
1. Modular (was the killer pt)
2. = Film quality
3. Can use SLR lenses initially
4. Will never need the greater resolution of the other Epic's
5. Variable frame rates suitable for natural history filming
6. low cost for what it is

[David Collard]

:biggrin: I'm getting an Epic. It'll probably be my first and last cinema quality camera at this level. My reasoning is the belief that the next level of the playing field is 3-D production. It's a whole other ball game that doesn't necessarily
require the specifications of Monstro and above. Hollywood and the Katzenburg's of the world want to maintain a privileged position in the cinema world and the way to do it is by supplying a premium product. The small footprint of the Scarlet series may be the future in that regard.

[Paul Leeming]

Yes, I'll be upgrading all of our cameras to Epic X's. For the money, why wouldn't you? If you think of the Red One as the testbed (and WHAT a testbed it is!!) then Epic is the result of all that learning. It's going to be a superb camera, even more so now with the slowed down/more deliberate delivery schedule.

HTH

Paul

[Stephen Pruitt]

Well, in light of Jim's recent announcement, it all seems pretty moot at the moment. Personally, I'm happy with the delay, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that Epic-X, if it is ever released (there are discussions amongst us REDHeads that there will be a reduction in the planned releases in terms of model numbers), won't appear until after our second film is already shot (starting January 2010).

Stephen

[James T Mather]

Pretty Certain I will be procuring an Epic X...two in fact.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Epic-X.. But I spend very little time thinking about it.. LOVE MY RED and I will have her for another year at least.

Also: I have NO interest in purchasing the Epic-X when it's released. I will buy it when it's FINISHED.

I won't have time for serious bugs and upgrades this time around. RED is picking up steam in my part of the world and when I do switch over, I want to make sure I don't have to stress out about any camera issues in the process.

With RED I KNEW I was going to go through "growing pains". With Epic, I can only deal with about 3% of what I had with RED.

Jay

Jay

[Robert Horwell]

X-man here!.all the way.

[Robert Berger]

I'm very torn about the whole Epic-X/Epic FF35 thing. I'm curious as to who has positively decided (as much as one can be positive at this point, anyway) to purchase the Epic-X system when it becomes available. And, even more importantly, why?

Thanks much.

Stephen

I'm going for the epic X , for the extra range of stops and for the slomotion on 5K, 4K, 3K and 2K. The DOF is for me on s35mm just enough. Smaller DoF is looking like if you where shooting on a greenscreen, not natural enymore.

So i stick to the Epic X and can't wait to get it!!
Robert Red 1265

[Anson Fogel]

Yep, if the world does not end and/or beans and rice get too expensive to provide low cost sustenance. Need the 4K 100+ FPS badly, and the extra stop or two and lower weight config options....no brainer. For sure. Now would be good.

[Aiden K.]

Yes, please.

[Paul Kalbach]

Yep...certainly...

[jonnycom]

Yes....ASAP