Black Shifts and Major Desaturation from Avid DS to After Effects on MAC

[ComedyRED]

Hi All,

Been having some major luminance shift issues when receiving footage from a Avid DS for a Mac using After Effects. This is a breakdown of what we are working with

RED footage rendered out as Pro Res from a Vendor, for Avid DS 8 to edit with. We wanted a DNX conversion BUT we could not get DNX 29.97 1080p, because it isn't available. So Avid DS edits with the Pro Res then spits out an Animation or None compression for a Mac to use. There are two issues

1. The Pro Res QTs we received from the Vendor are desaturated in color. Does not match any of the rich colors in the QT proxies.

2. There is even more of a desaturation when the AVID spits out animations or none compressions for the MACs to use.

Why are there luminance shifts from Red to Pro Res? Is there metadata we forgot to burn into the Pro Res QT renders? Should there of been a color correct before rendering out a Pro Res QT? Is there something we are not doing to maintain the rich colors that were seen in the QT Red Proxies?

What is the AVID doing that makes an even greater desaturation when handing over QTs to a MAC. Is it color space issues? Is it because of the Pro Res files we received from our vendor?

I ran a test of rendering out Pro Res QTs of the RED Proxies from FCP. The luminance was comparable to the RED proxies and definitely more saturated then Vendor Pro Res renders. We rendered out the FCP Pro Res QTs out from an AVID as an animation or None Compression we still got a large shift in luminance.

I've been digging and digging and I can't find any answers. I'm feeling it has something to do with how the Vendor rendered out the Pro Res QTs. Compounded with how the Avids spit out QTs for the Mac. THanks

[M Most]

I've been digging and digging and I can't find any answers. I'm feeling it has something to do with how the Vendor rendered out the Pro Res QTs. Compounded with how the Avids spit out QTs for the Mac.

Avid DS = PC platform = 2.2 gamma.
Mac = 1.8 gamma.

This is an ages old problem that Apple has steadfastly refused to address. If you're looking at these images on computer monitors (which I assume you are), you will have this problem unless the Quicktimes were made with a correction. One way around it is to set up the Mac monitor to 2.2 gamma and cross check what you are doing on a video monitor, which is where all of this is likely to wind up (unless this is film project, which is not what it sounds like).

[ComedyRED]

I am viewing this on a Computer Monitor. This is all for Broadcast SD. I know don't ask why we're shooting RED for SD final!!

I will try this out with the Mac monitor and Video Monitor to see what happens. I've read a bit about the gamma differences and will look into it more. Thanks and I'll post the results.

[ComedyRED]

Still see shifts in color no matter what gamma I set. I feel this is a codec issue and Avid issue.

[M Most]

Still see shifts in color no matter what gamma I set. I feel this is a codec issue and Avid issue.

Here's one other thing to check. When an Avid does exports, it allows you to choose either RGB or 601/709 levels. For proper display on a video monitor, this needs to be 601/709, as that implies a SMPTE scaled image. If the material was exported as RGB, that could cause some of the issues that you're having. I've experienced this in reverse, importing a Quicktime file as RGB and having it appear too light in Avid.

[Cail Young]

1. The Pro Res QTs we received from the Vendor are desaturated in color. Does not match any of the rich colors in the QT proxies.

It's possible the proxies are in Rec709 but the Prores QTs were rendered with Camera RGB/Redlog or some other, less contrasty LUT. Double check what their settings were.

[Marc F]

I think its your use of codec. It sounds like you're introducing an 8bit codec when you need a 10 bit or above.