Color me 8bit? :-/

[Simon Blackledge]

Can anyone shed some light on this?

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[Bob Cole] "is this bug present in FCP6? "

Great question. The bug he is probably referring to is that the footage gets processed in 10 bit or higher, but then final step is then knocked down to 8 bit, and then put it in a 10 bit wrapper so to speak. So, technically it gets rendered in a float color space (32 bit) but then gets knocked down and rounded at the very end to 8 bit, even though the codec is 10 bit. It's really confusing.


Jeremy
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This whole down to 8bit is confusing.. I know fcp renders at 8 bit but why round something off thats 10bit to 8 then claim it's 10? :-/
Basically can we only ever do 8bit work in fcp/color ?

cheers

s

[martinnoweck]

i hope it is more than 8bit!

martin

[laguun]

I know fcp renders at 8 bit but why round something off thats 10bit to 8 then claim it's 10? :-/
Basically can we only ever do 8bit work in fcp/color ?

anyone who we asked confirmed:
FCP is 8 bit in RGB.
if you need a professional colordepth, you have to convert to YUV - and back. this, imho, is the mayor bummer in FCP. also it seems, that one has to "hack" FCP into supporting 4k, something i am not to eager to do.

color does support 10 bit in RGB. it doesn´t support 4k, but only 2k.

if i got it right the osx workflow is max 2k, and would be:
->shoot 4k redcode
->edit redcode "offline@2k/1k" in fcp
->output fcp edl to redcine
->export 2k rgb10bit (cineon) from redcine
->export fcp-edl to color
->import 2k redcine-rgb10bit files to color
->import 2k redcine-rgb10bit
->DI 2k rgb in apple color-> master.

its sad for us, i really was looking forward to add osx&fcs as mastering system.

however, we can´t blame red - fcp 8bit rgb and color 2k max are both apples decisions.

it seems for 4k RGB >=10 bit we have to use windows and linux (and dying irix) in 2007 and 2008, or whenever apple will fix the shortcomings in FCS.

there are and have been many rgb>=10bit 4k windows systems, ranging from $.$$$ to $$.$$$.
starting with adobe premiere pro, assimilate scratch (with redcode support), avid ds nitris (4k master, 2k proxy) and dvs clipster with pure, perfect uncompressed 4k just to name a few.

p.s.
on the other hand: for the price of FCS with redcode support for 1/2k in FCP and 2k 10bit in color the package has a very good price/performance ratio.

[Simon Blackledge]

So working off HD-Cam or digi beta capturing 10bit blackmagic or aja it's ok ?10bit?

also any dissolves etc when shooting with Red is a no no in fcp as its 8 bit in rgb ?

Your saying conform via edl in Color and render out to ? just a file ? not back to fcp ?

confusing... :-/

Saying that I just hooked up the macbookpro 15" to a panasonic 32" tv and color ran fine! :-/ in dual monitor mode...!

S

[Simon Blackledge]

http://aimediaserver3.com/studiodaily/videoplayer/?src=ai3/editorslounge4/editorslounge4.swf&width=400&height=340

bug.. even with yuv ? :-/

[laguun]

So working off HD-Cam or digi beta capturing 10bit blackmagic or aja it's ok ?10bit?

if you convert to yuv (hdcam etc) it should be yuv float - however, the next open question then is color, as this now seems to be rgb, not yuv!



also any dissolves etc when shooting with Red is a no no in fcp as its 8 bit in rgb ?

or you transcode to yuv, rgb is 8bit. in rgb - i suppose slowmo/timelapse etc might also qualify as problematic, or importing any vfx/animation/graphic/3d



Your saying conform via edl in Color and render out to ? just a file ? not back to fcp ?

on the one hand: while you can directly send fcp to color, it is unclear atm what happens beneath the surface inside of color - rendered dissolves? timelapse/slowmo? imported files? will they be 8bit? or yuv?

inside of fcp however, rgb will be 8bit, and so it seems logical that going directly to the filmrecorder from color might be the more logical choice if we want to keep highest colorfideilty.




confusing... :-/

indeed - but we have to understand that these are -3- products, one brandnew in dev (red), one freshly integrated (color) and one which didn´t aim at the rgb (or xyz/hdr etc) market (fcp) which now shall become a pipeline.



Saying that I just hooked up the macbookpro 15" to a panasonic 32" tv and color ran fine! :-/ in dual monitor mode...!
S
cool! you did that? how was the performance?

p.s.
don´t forget - as of now, all recine/redcode integration we are talking about here is fully theoretical and basicly only summing up what was written on reduser.net

[Simon Blackledge]

It was pretty cool to be honest.. sat on sofa grading "milkgirls" clip! lol..

Playback was choppy.. but the clip was ProRes(HQ) 1920x1080 on my internal drive :-/

Color didn't want to know about a motionJPG clip sent to it, so converted it to ProRez.

will try SD when I get home.

One thing I did notice was I managed to get it to playback fine full screen on the panny set from fcp though :-/ maybe the gfx card n color.

But in FCP when I hit play the panny went darker (dropped the Gamma) then stopped play and went lighter (lifted).
After converting from motion jpg to pro rez this did not happen.

A pipeline is indeed needed with a nice list of do's n don'ts. I'm off to see an apple chap weds afternoon for a natter.
Such as SD to HD projects do I need to set the colorspace from rec6 >7 etc.. tick box in color etc. How does SD differ from HD with IRE levels etc..

Getting a deck in with a grade1 crt to have a play at a rough project in and back to tape then back in.. see what changes.

Cheers for reply...

S

[Graeme Nattress]

See previous thread. We pretent to be a 32bit YUV codec and hence get float rendering although it's really 12bit RGB behind the scenes.

Graeme

[Michael Schrengohst]

Tutorials with RED footage using FCP 6, Color and pros & cons of working in ProRes 4:2:2 would be a tremendous help.

[Simon Blackledge]

Thanks Graeme. So I just used redcode all the time ? :)