Leica Vantage Cine Lenses

[Sanjin Jukic]

Leica Vantage Cine Lenses

I found this by accident at Vantage web page:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/leica_vantage-macro60mm.jpg
The following focal lengths are available
19, 21, 24, 28, 35, 60, 90, 135, 180mm, all T2.8
in PL or PV mount.

Maybe this could be the set of Leica Cine Lenses that I heard about it before!!?

LINK>>> (http://www.vantagefilm.com/file/pdf/equipment_03.pdf)

[Evin Grant]

Doubtful. Vantage makes a bunch of their own lenses including the Hawk Anamorphics.
I think these are just rehouse Leica R lenses. The focal lengths match.

[Mitch Gross]

The Vantage rehousings of Leica R lenses is a newer rehousing than the Van Dieman rehousings of the early 1990s, but the glass remains the same.

[gdv]

Leica Vantage Cine Lenses

I found this by accident at Vantage web page:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/leica_vantage-macro60mm.jpg
The following focal lengths are available
19, 21, 24, 28, 35, 60, 90, 135, 180mm, all T2.8
in PL or PV mount.

Maybe this could be the set of Leica Cine Lenses that I heard about it before!!?

LINK>>> (http://www.vantagefilm.com/file/pdf/equipment_03.pdf)

I also think these just different rehousing than Van Diemen. Due to the global recession I don't think Leica will come out with new cine lenses.

[Joe Walker]

What's the price tag on these puppies?!

[Sanjin Jukic]

Somebody interested to now more about it should probably call Vantage Film GmbH and ask.

[Pawel Achtel]

I was quoted 55.900,00 Euros for the Hawk 150-450mm/T2.8 zoom.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I was quoted 55.900,00 Euros for the Hawk 150-450mm/T2.8 zoom.

Definitely Vantage lenses are not cheap.

They are from Germany, has German quality craft and have German prices that are also in general always expensive like other EU based lens technologies (Angenieux, Cooke, Zeiss, Leica...).

[Michael Bravin]

Definitely Vantage lenses are not cheap.

They are from Germany, has German quality craft and have German prices that are also in general always expensive like other EU based lens technologies (Angenieux, Cooke, Zeiss, Leica...).

Sanjin

I don't think Leicester would be considered in the EU
The brits are VERY sensitive about such things :-)

[John Chater]

I don't think Leicester would be considered in the EU
The brits are VERY sensitive about such things :-)
Michael Bravin

Sorry Michael,
Your so often right.....but...... Leicester has been in the EU for 36yrs. Right now bet they wish the currency was joined too.

John
Chater Camera

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sanjin

I don't think Leicester would be considered in the EU
The brits are VERY sensitive about such things :-)

Would be better to say that lenses made in West(ern) Europe (EU, Switzerland and UK) are always expensive just because of very high production costs.

If somebody is interested in to read more about foreign relations of the United Kingdom and EU can find it here>>

UK and EU relations>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_United_Kingdom#European_U nion)

Understanding the relations between the UK and the European Union>> (http://www.helium.com/items/320402-understanding-the-relations-between-the-uk-and-the-european-union)

[Stephen Williams]

Would be better to say that lenses made in West(ern) Europe (EU, Switzerland and UK) are always expensive just because of very high production costs.


Hi Sanjin,

Highly motivated staff & very very high standards of quality control will never be cheap IMO. The difference between Cooke quality controls & 'Good Enough' can be seen in an economical PL mounted cine zoom.

Stephen

[Thomas Dobbie]

Hi Sanjin,

Quite a few people have rehoused these Leica macro's, including Arri Media,and I believe Panavision,however the VanDiemen lenses are unique, due to the variable pitch wireform focusing,which IMHO gives them the edge, in terms of mechanical function. It's a very clever system. These look like interesting lenses though.
I have the 60,100 and 135 VD macro's.
Tom.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Sanjin,

Highly motivated staff & very very high standards of quality control will never be cheap IMO. The difference between Cooke quality controls & 'Good Enough' can be seen in an economical PL mounted cine zoom.

Stephen
Hi stephen,

no doubts that Cooke Optics Ltd. has one of the highest quality controls in cine lens production.

But we should not forget that Arri/Zeiss (German) and Angenieux (France) has also one of the highest quality controls in the lens production industry.

Last but not least is Leica that "claims" itself the highest still lens quality control that are also the most expensive.


Hi Sanjin,

Quite a few people have rehoused these Leica macro's, including Arri Media,and I believe Panavision,however the VanDiemen lenses are unique, due to the variable pitch wireform focusing,which IMHO gives them the edge, in terms of mechanical function. It's a very clever system. These look like interesting lenses though.
I have the 60,100 and 135 VD macro's.
Tom.


Hi Thomas,

Could be true about VanDiemen's Leica rehoused lenses.

I didn't have opportunity to try them yet.

By the way Leica AG's own cine lens division Leica Cinema GmbH (http://www.easymonitoring.ch/handelsregister/leica_cinema_gmbh_859115.aspx) is in liquidation now.

Economy crisis today has no mercy.

Who would be the next?

[Stephen Williams]

But we should not forget that Arri/Zeiss (German) and Angenieux (France) has also one of the highest quality controls in the lens production industry.
?

Hi,

Last time I checked new Zeiss & Angenieux glass was rather expensive not unlike Cooke, all 3 produce first class Cimena lenses.

Stephen

[David Rasberry]

Top Line Fujinon and Canon glass is just as expensive too.

[Thomas Dobbie]

Top Line Fujinon and Canon glass is just as expensive too.

David,
Agreed,it is expensive.
I have no personal experience with Canon or Fuji,cine and ENG glass,but I have found the quality of the stills lenses to be variable,same thing with Nikon.Something I haven't encountered with Leitz or Zeiss.
Tom.

[Michael Lindsay]

VanDiemen lenses are unique, due to the variable pitch wireform focusing,which IMHO gives them the edge,

out of curiosity how does that work?

thanks

Michael Lindsay

[Thomas Dobbie]

Michael,

to be honest I'm not very sure,I'm told that wire form is very common in engineering,but the particular use of it within the lens focusing mechanism must be quite unique in order to have a patent.
The focus of these lenses is extremely light and smooth.
I found this explanation on a wire form manufacturers site.
"Wire Forms typically are parts made from round wire that are bent to have specific angles and lengths. Most springs have a helix or spiral shape consisting of a group of coils, and wire forms typically do not."
Perhaps one of the more technical members here could illuminate further.

Tom.

[Michael Bravin]

I don't think Leicester would be considered in the EU
The brits are VERY sensitive about such things :-)
Michael Bravin

Sorry Michael,
Your so often right.....but...... Leicester has been in the EU for 36yrs. Right now bet they wish the currency was joined too.

John
Chater Camera

I know the UK is, but Leicester? Apparently you've yet to meet anyone from there :-)

[John Chater]

I know the UK is, but Leicester? Apparently you've yet to meet anyone from there :-)
Michael Bravin

Worried about being in the EU? Imagine how they feel about being saved by an American :-)
Yep you were way to subtle for me with that joke. Then again my dad is from Birmingham.

John Chater

[conrad gaunt]

I know the UK is, but Leicester? Apparently you've yet to meet anyone from there :-)
Michael Bravin

Worried about being in the EU? Imagine how they feel about being saved by an American :-)
Yep you were way to subtle for me with that joke. Then again my dad is from Birmingham.

John Chater

I don't understand either of your comments?

[Harry Clark]

I'm not sure, but what I think Michael means that the folks from Leicester are more "Brit" than the average Brit.
What John means is that in the early '90s, on the verge of being shuttered by its parent company (Rank plc), Cooke Optics Ltd was saved by Les Zellan, an American (who is one of the owners of the ZGC Corporation) by American funding. I think he's implying that the stiff upper lip might have trembled at the thought of those boorish Americans rushing in with cheap money and saving another venerable British establishment.
Of course, if Les had not done this, the world would never know S4s...
Cheers,
Harry

[Sanjin Jukic]

Economically and culturally in the last 30 years UK becomes a country with 3/4 parts like that is 51st US state

and 1/4th part that is like a full EU member country.

Controversy and confusion over UK identity today.

UK destiny in the age of globalization.

Commonwealth becomes for ordinary Brits only as a holiday destination with British style a sort of exotic flavor.

UK core industries were sold out mostly to Americans and Germans.

Banking system is deeply linked to US and EU banking and depends on them.

A real UK money (profit) is deposed in a private Swiss and Bahamas banks and is mostly in hands of rich UK aristocrats,

industrialists and foreign money oligarchs like a wealthy Russians, Arab sheiks and Indian maharajas...

Queen and Royal family trying desperately to keep Brit values even online with websites full of video and photos.

All sound like a big joke but that's almost true.

[Michael Bravin]

I'm not sure, but what I think Michael means that the folks from Leicester are more "Brit" than the average Brit.
What John means is that in the early '90s, on the verge of being shuttered by its parent company (Rank plc), Cooke Optics Ltd was saved by Les Zellan, an American (who is one of the owners of the ZGC Corporation) by American funding. I think he's implying that the stiff upper lip might have trembled at the thought of those boorish Americans rushing in with cheap money and saving another venerable British establishment.
Of course, if Les had not done this, the world would never know S4s...
Cheers,
Harry

Thanks Harry

Looks like John and I should take you with us wherever we go with our subtle comment postings :-)

You are spot on mate.

Meant as an observation not a criticism the folks at Cooke factory in Leicester are a proud group who protect and continue tried and true old school craftsmanship and care in the manufacture of each individual S4 lens.

[Harry Clark]

Thanks Michael...
Sanjin... you're funny! ;) I do love the Brits though. Good folks.
Harry

[Sanjin Jukic]

I didn't say that I do not love or like Brits at all.

There are the facts I found in the press, books and online, also saw and heard even years ago in London and Edinburgh.

Just was trying to get closer to real situation without any illusion about that.

[Harry Clark]

Sorry... did not mean to imply that you did not like them.
Just thought the comments were funny, that's all!
Cheers,
Harry

[Mitch Gross]

The wireform track systems within the Van Dieman housings are unique and , well, terrific. Essentially a pair of coils, one connected to the front and one to the rear with both connected to the lens grouping that moves for focus adjustment. By using wireform tensioners, the rotation movement is always light and easy to turn yet never slips. The lens grouping stays in place when no outside pressure is applied as the wireforms provide all the necessary tensio. And with age the wireforms naturally age together to keep tension equal. Our set is approaching the end of its second decade yet remains in top condition, which is a hell of a lot better than I can say for the wear and tear on the mechanics of other lenses of a similar age.

[Michael Lindsay]

The wireform track systems within the Van Dieman housings are unique and , well, terrific. Essentially a pair of coils, one connected to the front and one to the rear with both connected to the lens grouping that moves for focus adjustment. By using wireform tensioners, the rotation movement is always light and easy to turn yet never slips. The lens grouping stays in place when no outside pressure is applied as the wireforms provide all the necessary tensio. And with age the wireforms naturally age together to keep tension equal. Our set is approaching the end of its second decade yet remains in top condition, which is a hell of a lot better than I can say for the wear and tear on the mechanics of other lenses of a similar age.

Thanks for that!

Michael L

[Thomas Dobbie]

Hi Mitch,
thank you for such a clear and concise explanation,I now understand.
An engineer once tried to explain it to me,and to be honest I was still in the dark.
Tom.

[Brian D. Goff]

Leica Vantage Cine Lenses

I found this by accident at Vantage web page:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/leica_vantage-macro60mm.jpg
The following focal lengths are available
19, 21, 24, 28, 35, 60, 90, 135, 180mm, all T2.8
in PL or PV mount.

Maybe this could be the set of Leica Cine Lenses that I heard about it before!!?

LINK>>> (http://www.vantagefilm.com/file/pdf/equipment_03.pdf)

If these are normal leica lenses, howcome they are T2.8 and not f2.8 - meaning they would be more like T3 - or not?

[Sanjin Jukic]

If these are normal leica lenses, howcome they are T2.8 and not f2.8 - meaning they would be more like T3 - or not?

Brian,

then you should ask Vantage about that.

Just give them a call after this holidays...

[Michael Lindsay]

If these are normal leica lenses, howcome they are T2.8 and not f2.8 - meaning they would be more like T3 - or not?

this has confused me with a number of re-housed lenses (the new wide nikon re-house promoted on this list being one of the).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=398091#post398091

The 3 possibilities seems to me to be:

1/ In rehousing they manage to squeeze a little more out of the lens.

2/ They simply feel its close enough not to bother re-calculating for true T-stops.

3/ The lens was conservatively marked up in the first place. (I think I've seen this on contax ziess lenses).

After grilling Vantage on their anamorphics (and being very impressed with their professionalism and honesty) I'd have to guess that they would not consider marking up a f-stop as a T-stop..

As for Focus Optics I asked in an open forum and got no answer so I reckon number 2..

regards

Michael L

PS if my memory serves you lose about 4-5% per surface for modern coatings... so on a modern 10 element lenses that is still a fair amount of light

[PaulClements]

The wireform track systems within the Van Dieman housings are unique and , well, terrific. Essentially a pair of coils, one connected to the front and one to the rear with both connected to the lens grouping that moves for focus adjustment. By using wireform tensioners, the rotation movement is always light and easy to turn yet never slips. The lens grouping stays in place when no outside pressure is applied as the wireforms provide all the necessary tensio. And with age the wireforms naturally age together to keep tension equal. Our set is approaching the end of its second decade yet remains in top condition, which is a hell of a lot better than I can say for the wear and tear on the mechanics of other lenses of a similar age.
It's also a far more economical means of manufacturing the lenses. Chris showed me a few of the Leica houses with the wireform track inside, very interesting design indeed. Simple in it's engineering but very effective.

Van Diemen use to be quite big. Here's an interesting fact... Cooke S4 lenses didn't use to have a 14mm, Van Diemen designed one from the ground up to match the set, they later sold the design to Cooke because it was that good. This gives an idea of the quality of the rehouses Van Diemen use to do as Mitch has testified too.

I jokingly advised him to make some 65mm Anamorphic lenses for the Epic 645 :)

Paul

[PaulClements]

this has confused me with a number of re-housed lenses (the new wide nikon re-house promoted on this list being one of the).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=398091#post398091

The 3 possibilities seems to me to be:

1/ In rehousing they manage to squeeze a little more out of the lens.

2/ They simply feel its close enough not to bother re-calculating for true T-stops.

3/ The lens was conservatively marked up in the first place. (I think I've seen this on contax ziess lenses).

After grilling Vantage on their anamorphics (and being very impressed with their professionalism and honesty) I'd have to guess that they would not consider marking up a f-stop as a T-stop..

As for Focus Optics I asked in an open forum and got no answer so I reckon number 2..

regards

Michael L

PS if my memory serves you lose about 4-5% per surface for modern coatings... so on a modern 10 element lenses that is still a fair amount of light
Hi Michael, the Van Diemen Leica's were T3.0 which would fit, seems odd, I've rarely heard of converted still lenses having the same T stop as the original F stop.

Here's the complete list of corresponding VD lenses:
19mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0
24mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0
28mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0
60mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0
90mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0
135mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0
180mm F2.8 Elmarit T3.0

Still, I'd rather see a combination of the M and R system glass used to make the following set:
15mm T3.0
21mm T1.5
24mm T1.5
35mm T1.5
50mm T1.5
80mm T1,5

Paul

[Jozo Zovko]

Speaking of Vantage lenses -
I'm surprised no one ever mentions their "B" series of lenses. I shot a film in India and used Hawk "B" series anamorphic lenses (rented from the Prasad film lab.) I only ever knew the C and V series of lenses so I contacted Vantage and they informed me that the "B" series were inexpensive versions of the C series made for the indian market. Same glass but the mechanics and materials were lower in quality. I never did see them listed on their web site, and have not heard of them since. But if anyone is in the market for anamorphic glass, I recommend giving Vantage a call/email to see if new "B" sets are still being produced.

Adios
Jozo Zovko