Do we require Nagra for Audio in Red for Feature film?

[Harcharan Singh]

Hi,
Just wondering that do we require 'Nagra' for audio recording (as in 35mm shoot) for a feature film?If yes then why?
Thks
Harcharan

[Jay A. Kelley]

Flexibility, better sound quality.. RED has good sound now, but you will never beat a machine built for that purpose.

[Tom Visser]

I'm a proud Nagra VI owner and I will say no (at least for RED). The old RED audio boards were useable if you knew their limitations, the new ones fix the major issues and are quite competent. The bigger issue above using an outboard recorder to get good sound is to use professional sound department crew that know what they are doing. Like almost anything out there, it is the man, not the machine that gets results. That being said, if we remove the human element, the next most important thing is to use an outboard mixer where one can manually adjust gain levels and if needed, actually mix, something that you cannot do with the camera's menu driven audio settings. Most outboard mixers will have better Preamps than those built into a camera too. Using something like a Nagra VI, Aaton Cantar, Sound Devices 7 series, or Zaxcom Deva will ultimately get you the best results. Members of this board are RED owners or potential RED owners and are obviously pioneers themselves and have the highest standards for the material they produce, as such, many should investigate Nagra quality solutions as it matches the standards they seek... but to reiterate, if you can only afford a Nagra VI OR to hire proper mixers and boom ops with their own gear / rentals, go for the experience every time.

[Harcharan Singh]

Hi,
If we are taking reference audio for dubbing later do we require the Nagra?

[Tom Visser]

Hi,
If we are taking reference audio for dubbing later do we require the Nagra?

Depending on the exact meaning of your question, there are two answers...

If you are using the term "Nagra" as any typical audio recorder with embedded time code capabilities, yes. Although the technical answer is no, you could synch it the old fashioned way with a slate clap and manually fix any drift issues... for a feature, you'd be silly not to invest in the appropriate hardware because the cost is insignificant compared to your budget. Typical modern recorders used with this capability are the Nagra VI (4 pres / 6 channels), Nagra V (2/2), Sound Devices 788t (8/12), Sound Devices 744t (2/4), Sound Devices 702t (2/2), Aaton Cantar (5/8), Zaxcom Deva (varies per specific model / software, but typically something like 8/10), Tascam HD-P2 (2/2), Edirol R4-Pro (4/4), Fostex PD606 (6/8). The Sound Devices 788t seems to be one of the more popular units due to its features, size, and price. I'd highly recommend looking at the Nagra VI, as I feel it has slightly better sound quality (might not be important if your not recording music sources), and has a certain mechanical "Nagraness" that is an intangible element to describe.

If your referring to the "Nagra" specifically that is / was used on most all 35mm shoots in the past, probably the Nagra IV-STC, it could technically be used on modern productions, but really there are better choices now. See my list above.

But really... you shouldn't concern yourself too much with this. These are questions that your sound department would know off the top of their head and I'm sure they have a preference. I prefer the Nagra VI. If your sound mixer likes the Fostex PD-606, which I dislike tremendously, then you should purchase your mixer a PD-606 because that is what he likes to use and he is the one who is going to get you the results you need.

[Siva Kollipara]

Hi Harcharan,

I guess you are referencing this from Bollywood perspective.
Most of the Indian cinemas use ADR, so the use of nagra is to
1.Help Editor to sync the clips better
2.Help dubbing artists
3.Help sound editor to identify special sound.

IMHO with 4 channels of audio on RED, you would better off with
1.One on board mic
2.One Boom mic
3.Two lavelier mics will give more than sufficient audio to achieve the same functionality that is being done in India now.

The case Hollywood/other productions is different because they use live sound.
I know these pains better, on my earlier project we brought Indian actors and we did the american way with Live sound and know how much trouble the actors/crew had.

just my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Siva