my single wish

[Tonaci Tran]

Quoting the creative cow article:

""So the cinematographer wants to know what the image looks like, not in a TV monitor, but what it's going to look like on film. So we have this device called the Display Processor (below) where we can take 3D look up tables, load it into that device, feed the camera into that and then feed it into a monitoring, you can emulate a particular negative printed on a particular print -- while you're shooting. Thats one of the more popular pieces of hardware that we have developed. Most cinematographers go out with one of these per camera."

It would be insane if RED could collaborate with a company to develop a box to do this for EPIC..or better yet. screw the box, have the ability to load 3d look up tables into the camera so the 1080p feed gives you a WYSIYG film print emulation right on set. this would be badass.

[mikeburton]

second this request!

[michael zaletel]

I read that as well and was actually trying to figure out just exactly what that device is doing that's so unique. Can someone explain in depth?

-shooter

[Brook Willard]

It sounds like it's just a LUT box that brings their print color science to set...

[Seth Larney]

It sounds like it's just a LUT box that brings their print color science to set...

exactly.. ?

[Paul Leeming]

Red is already 90% there with metadata colour settings which can be saved and imported (currently limited to on camera created versions but that's temporary). Given that Red can determine with high accuracy what the colour response of their own monitoring solutions is, plus outputting Rec709 via HD-SDI etc, it wouldn't take much to offer a pack of "film stock looks" one can simply upload into the Epic or Scarlet to get the look the DP wants on set. Double advantage is that metadata travels with the file AND can be altered later using RedCine, RedAlert or any other future program that supports the system.

Cheers,

Paul

[Tonaci Tran]

Red is already 90% there with metadata colour settings which can be saved and imported (currently limited to on camera created versions but that's temporary). Given that Red can determine with high accuracy what the colour response of their own monitoring solutions is, plus outputting Rec709 via HD-SDI etc, it wouldn't take much to offer a pack of "film stock looks" one can simply upload into the Epic or Scarlet to get the look the DP wants on set. Double advantage is that metadata travels with the file AND can be altered later using RedCine, RedAlert or any other future program that supports the system.

Cheers,

Paul

As of right now, we are not able to transport load any "looks" from the camera into red alert/redcine (at least that I am aware of). I know you can tweak the settings in camera but its not the same as tweaking it in Red Alert and simply loading that saved preset into the RED. Plus, this look I would be tweaking would not necessarily by WYSIWYG for print emulation. I agree in theory, it would seem like something that could be implemented with no problem..but I guess it is time consuming to do tests to create these 3d film emulation luts. Also, there would need to be a standard monitor used..since monitors have all kinds of different calibration. I wonder which production monitor Panavision uses for their box. From my limited understanding of how this would work..but my thinking is that you would have to be able to load a LUT into the monitor as well or somehow have the monitor calibrated.
Anyways, I just want to see this feature implemented...especially since more and more features are being shot on RED that will go to film.

[Matt Uhry]

Tonaci - It's already available and would work with the Red, there are boxes like the LUTher and monitors like the Cinetal that do this. Been around for a few years. Works to a degree.

I have great respect for Panavision and their products but this one is just digital prozac for technophobes. Besides it's a closed loop between PV- Efilm and Technicolor. Owning a film out photochemical lab is not exactly Red's style. Change one of the elements and the calibrations fall apart.

Testing using the intended film-out house is the only real way to find out where the limits are and what is acceptable to you.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Tonaci Tran]

Thanks for the info Matt. Blair tipped me on the cinetal..so I am interested in seeing that in action.

[Curran Giddens]

how much is the Davio?

http://www.cine-tal.com/products/davio_main.asp

[Richard Goodwin]

If you take viewing conditions into account how realistic is film accurate on set preview? Wouldn't lighting conditions and the viewing area have to be tightly controlled to not affect color judgement?

[Brook Willard]

exactly.. ?

My point was that it's not a particularly difficult or new concept... it's something that could be done with the RED ONE right now.

[Tonaci Tran]

I heard about the luther box and recently Blair gave me the scoop on the davio..but I haven't seen any documentation, examples, reviews or tests using any of these products with the RED camera to show me real world results that it works. If anyone here uses these LUT boxes with RED, please do share your experience. Shooting with redspace is cool..but it would be sweet to just be able to load the 3d luts straight into the camera and have it fed to the onboard red lcd/evf as well as the director's monitor.

"it's something that could be done with the RED ONE right now."
Brook, do you happen to know kind of monitor needs to be used with these boxes and how these monitors are calibrated?

[Tonaci Tran]

Matt "Besides it's a closed loop between PV- Efilm and Technicolor. Owning a film out photochemical lab is not exactly Red's style. Change one of the elements and the calibrations fall apart."

yeah.. this is such a good point. I guess I have just been wondering about this because a DP I have been working with has been wishing for the same box ever since he was given a demo by panavision.

but the key thing here is that closed loop you are referring to which is essential for these boxes to even work. ..which is why I am still skeptical about cinetal's offering..wouldn't they need to collab with a specific particular film lab for their luts to work?

[J. Eric Camp]

You are talking about the traditional DIT rig and tent that has been around for some time.

It in not so mobile, you end up with a mag liner of gear.

As Matt said, you need standards. Hard fixed standards. Past that it wouldn't be as effective with the R1 as it is with some other camera. You would be working off the 720 "video tap."

The cine-tal is not the only monitor. Just look for reference monitors or grade 1.

Past all of that. Maybe a little box that could hold 10 luts, predesigned and malleable via a computer, like a hardware version of magic bullet would be neat. But then you have to replicate it. Which software are you using? It's Pandora's box.

I have a feeling the interface game will change with the DSMC line.

[Tonaci Tran]

You are talking about the traditional DIT rig and tent that has been around for some time.

It in not so mobile, you end up with a mag liner of gear.

As Matt said, you need standards. Hard fixed standards. Past that it wouldn't be as effective with the R1 as it is with some other camera. You would be working off the 720 "video tap."

The cine-tal is not the only monitor. Just look for reference monitors or grade 1.

Past all of that. Maybe a little box that could hold 10 luts, predesigned and malleable via a computer, like a hardware version of magic bullet would be neat. But then you have to replicate it. Which software are you using? It's Pandora's box.

I have a feeling the interface game will change with the DSMC line.

yeah, i know it exists but I have yet to see it in action on the "shot on red" features I have worked on. I heard of the luther box and also Blair tipped me on the davio. I figured it would be nice to have this lut functionality built into the epic rather than requiring another piece of hardware..but as suggested earlier..it essentially needs a "closed loop" to make it work.

[Tim Whitcomb]

how much is the Davio?

http://www.cine-tal.com/products/davio_main.asp

Not sure the cost of Davio, but the Cinetal costs AT LEAST as much as a RED ONE body, (and thats just a DI package without the built in vectorscope) so its not practical for most folks as an on-set monitor.

Mark Pinkell at MPRO systems

Mark (at) mprosystems (dot) com is a great reseller for Cinetal and can get you quotes on all things Cinetal.

cheers.

[Curran Giddens]

Mark (at) mprosystems (dot) com is a great reseller for Cinetal and can get you quotes on all things Cinetal.

Thanks. I think I remember someone saying it costs around $8k.