Build 17 is driving me crazy

[HD Hildebrand]

Just got my camera back from the upgrade program. Been on build 15, shooting virtually every day since March with no problems. Now with build 17, I have had a continual series of drop frames (take after take with no vibration on location - just a simple scene in a kitchen) until I switched half full out drive (though same drive recorded perfectly fine later). Have had the Audio Fault thing many times. Have had a whole string of shots, that were perfectly exposed - even played back perfectly fine, then a half hour later those same shots were completely over exposed and clipping beyond recognition when playing back in camera (histogram was way off the chart). Finally bring those same shots into my computer and they now seem to work again. Have had a number of errors and issues that are sincerely aging me. I think I need to roll back to 16.

Shooting 4k 2:1 (was RC36 but have rolled back to RC28). Was going to go 16:9 but was encountering problems, but still have problems on 2:1 (even though historically I haven't).

Can anyone enlighten me?

Only thing I'm doing different from the past is: build 17, Rec709 instead of REDspace, and new "MAX" is checked.

[Steve Sherrick]

Drop Frames - most likely drive related. If it continues to happen sporadically, send in the drive for repair.

Audio Fault - Yes, it does happen and I'm not exactly sure why. It is a pain.

Overexposed weirdness - When your camera came back, your settings were reset. Check to make sure that when in playback mode you are clip based and not camera based. Clip based plays back the metadata associated with clip when it was shot. camera based will playback current settings, hence the overexposure if you had changed something.

Shooting 4K, 16:9 shouldn't be a problem at this point, nor should 2:1 at either RC28 or 36. Can you describe problems exactly?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've gone to Build 18 beta and haven't looked back. For some reason it's more stable than B17 was for me. Not that 17 was bad or I gave it much of a chance... But I had a boot hang under B17, none on B18.

For some reason, results may differ for others. But I at least suggest getting that drive checked and a reinstallation of the camera firmware may not be a bad idea.

[Seth Larney]

I've gone to Build 18 beta and haven't looked back. For some reason it's more stable than B17 was for me. Not that 17 was bad or I gave it much of a chance... But I had a boot hang under B17, none on B18.

For some reason, results may differ for others. But I at least suggest getting that drive checked and a reinstallation of the camera firmware may not be a bad idea.

Same here.. we had a few small issues on B17, every one of which seems to have cleared up on B18.. not a problem so far.

[J. Eric Camp]

Like Steve said:

Drop frames may have been a bad drive or connection.
Your playback issues were that the camera now has the ability to playback with the metadata of the clip as it was shot or using the metadata of the cameras current state.
Audio faults: Line, mic, phantom?

[HD Hildebrand]

Steve, yes, it was camera based not clip based. We'll see how it goes today.

Audio was mic phantom power.

16:9 was odd drop frame and green screen.

Can't risk switching 2 cameras to 18 in the middle of a shoot.

Thank you all.

[Mark Crabtree]

Camera #100 is also having dropped frames after the audio board upgrade. It happens intermittently about every 5 to 10 takes. 15 to 31 frames dropped in the middle of the take. It happens on all four of my Red drives. Camera #1760 does not drop frames with any of these drives and it has not yet had the audio board upgrade. Both cameras on release build 17. Is it possible that this is related to audio upgrade?

[Mike Burke]

Camera #100 is also having dropped frames after the audio board upgrade. It happens intermittently about every 5 to 10 takes. 15 to 31 frames dropped in the middle of the take. It happens on all four of my Red drives.

How does one recognize that they've dropped frames?
Is it apparent when playing back at the camera or only once you've
downloaded the footage?

[HD Hildebrand]

How does one recognize that they've dropped frames?
Is it apparent when playing back at the camera or only once you've
downloaded the footage?

There is a "Drop frame" counter in the menu filed.

[HD Hildebrand]

Today I had other issues - several times while trying to play back the footage I just shot the screen suddenly said "Initializing" as if the camera was booting up again. Very weird, since it wasn't turned of, nor did the screen go black as if it was turned off.

[Mark Crabtree]

How does one recognize that they've dropped frames?
Is it apparent when playing back at the camera or only once you've
downloaded the footage?


There is a dropped frames indicator box at the bottom of the viewfinder/lcd screen. When you get dropped frames you get the number of frames dropped indicated in red. When you look at the footage you see a grey screen for the same number of frames somewhere in the clip. Anyone at Red want to comment on this?

[Brent@RED]

We are tracking this thread, yes.

BC

[SF Geek]

We're ready to take the new build anytime you're ready to dish it. I just hope it works better than the new Redcine!

[ninjaleprechaun]

Camera #100 is also having dropped frames after the audio board upgrade. It happens intermittently about every 5 to 10 takes. 15 to 31 frames dropped in the middle of the take. It happens on all four of my Red drives. Camera #1760 does not drop frames with any of these drives and it has not yet had the audio board upgrade. Both cameras on release build 17. Is it possible that this is related to audio upgrade?

We got this on release 17 before we ever got the audio board upgrade. Same thing with the dropped frames. I had to swap out drives and it magically worked again after dropping hundreds of frames five or six times in a row. Build 16 on the same camera never gave us any of these problems.

[David Birdy]

Steve, yes, it was camera based not clip based. We'll see how it goes today.

Audio was mic phantom power.

16:9 was odd drop frame and green screen.

Can't risk switching 2 cameras to 18 in the middle of a shoot.

Thank you all.

Can you use a SSD or CF card to rule out the possibility of the "spinning" HD
causing the dropped frames?

Using a line level input seems to work well, pre-mix the mic or use a mic to line amp.

Dave

[Curran Giddens]

Build 16 on the same camera never gave us any of these problems.

Have you or anyone who has had similar issues gone back to build 16?

[Tim Sutherland]

I had one drive do the same thing where it stalled in format, then wouldn't format after that. I didn't get a chance to test but I assumed formatting on a mac or pc so that it would read as unformatted in camera would do the trick. That only happened to one drive and the camera hasn't had any more problems since. Release build 17.

[HD Hildebrand]

Had "Codec Error" a few times on yesterdays shoot. This has also happened intermittently during the other shoot days. Often seemingly for no reason at all - sometimes just when you press "start" sometimes a little later. Yesterday however, they happened on dropped frames while on a skater dolly. My fault - it was a rough surface (following a bowling ball down a lane), however I have had dropped frames with previous builds and I never had "codec error" (and the screen goes dark) when I've had dropped frames.

My camera has been virtually flawless until this point, it's unfortunate to see. Really tempted to change builds, but as I said before, it's a tough call in the middle of a shoot.

[Brigham Edgar]

IMHO i think it is a RED camera thing. I'm a big supporter of RED but have come to the reality that the Red ONE is about 95% of the way there. Just so many randoms over various builds with reports of no problems with some cameras and a host of issues with others. My little theory is that the cameras are worked to their limit and maybe beyond a little and that is part of the reason for the big push to get current owners on board for the EPIC upgrade and i will be one of them for sure. Hoping that a lot of these little bugs just up and vanish, after all, as Jim has stated...this was their first attempt. And as outstanding as it is currently it'll only get better. In the meantime, they do listen and hopefully we will reach a stage were these things are history.

By the way, just got mine back from the upgrade a couple days ago and will give it a run in the next couple days to suss her out. She was pretty stable before (not perfect) so we'll see if there is a change...for me anyway:)

[HD Hildebrand]

Okay, another day of shooting and more issues. I am getting my day, but a lot of things are rather upsetting. I need to upgrade to beta 18 or down to 16 - thoughts???

One of the most upsetting things is how it will randomly change from Redspace to REC709. I'd rather have underexposed then blown out any day, but I need something consistent so I know what I'm exposing for. Problem is, if you shoot REC709 on snow things are dangerously hot. Shoot Redspace and there is a lot of room in post with the image. Seems the camera randomly shifts to REC709 from Redspace when I change the battery (not sure). It makes no sense. I check to make sure it is in one mode or the other, then I shoot an entire sequence and discover it was actually Rec709 when I had set it for Redspace earlier and have exposed for the same.

Another thing driving me is that phantom power turns off when you power down (posted in another thread).

Finally, occasionally when I play back (again happened today) the camera suddenly says "initializing" as if it's rebooting. I then shut it down and have to reboot. A lot of time is wasted with this.

[Steve Sherrick]

Okay, another day of shooting and more issues. I am getting my day, but a lot of things are rather upsetting. I need to upgrade to beta 18 or down to 16 - thoughts???

One of the most upsetting things is how it will randomly change from Redspace to REC709. I'd rather have underexposed then blown out any day, but I need something consistent so I know what I'm exposing for. Problem is, if you shoot REC709 on snow things are dangerously hot. Shoot Redspace and there is a lot of room in post with the image. Seems the camera randomly shifts to REC709 from Redspace when I change the battery (not sure). It makes no sense. I check to make sure it is in one mode or the other, then I shoot an entire sequence and discover it was actually Rec709 when I had set it for Redspace earlier and have exposed for the same.

Another thing driving me is that phantom power turns off when you power down (posted in another thread).

Finally, occasionally when I play back (again happened today) the camera suddenly says "initializing" as if it's rebooting. I then shut it down and have to reboot. A lot of time is wasted with this.

Are you saying it switches them without you knowing? In other words, let's say you are exposing for Rec709 (that's what is set for View) are you saying it's actually in Redspace, despite what the View says? Or are you saying it switches the view on you when you reboot? So, if you had been in Rec709, when you boot back in it's now listed as Redspace in the View. If it's the latter, that's workable, just means you have to double check it. If it's a case where it says it's one thing but it's doing another, that could be a problem.

[HD Hildebrand]

I go into view, set for Redspace, next thing I know I'm actually shooting in 709. Sure it's workable if you want to double check each time you shoot, but if you're shooting a 150+ slates a day this certainly does not work.



Are you saying it switches them without you knowing? In other words, let's say you are exposing for Rec709 (that's what is set for View) are you saying it's actually in Redspace, despite what the View says? Or are you saying it switches the view on you when you reboot? So, if you had been in Rec709, when you boot back in it's now listed as Redspace in the View. If it's the latter, that's workable, just means you have to double check it. If it's a case where it says it's one thing but it's doing another, that could be a problem.

[David Cox]

With new audio board installed, I played back multiple clips for client and each time I received an audio error on the screen. It didn't freeze up the camera, just played a few clips and reported error. I was able to exit a continue.

Build 17
2k 16x9
59.97 fps

Dave

[Steve Sherrick]

I go into view, set for Redspace, next thing I know I'm actually shooting in 709. Sure it's workable if you want to double check each time you shoot, but if you're shooting a 150+ slates a day this certainly does not work.
When I say workable, I mean you can actually change the setting and get the right one. Worse case scenario would be if you had selected Redspace and unbeknownst to you it was actually using Rec709. Either way it's not a great scenario and hopefully it can be worked out so you don't have to deal with that. Anything that causes delays in shooting is frustrating.

[HD Hildebrand]

I hear you brother, but this in essence is what is happening - I'm selecting Redspace and unbeknownst to me it is actually using Rec709.


"
When I say workable, I mean you can actually change the setting and get the right one. Worse case scenario would be if you had selected Redspace and unbeknownst to you it was actually using Rec709. Either way it's not a great scenario and hopefully it can be worked out so you don't have to deal with that. Anything that causes delays in shooting is frustrating.

[HD Hildebrand]

Just noticed this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22796

Don't mean to double post, but Brent, if Red is tracking this thread, perhaps this will help.

As for the reboot/initialize thing:

I don't think it is a heat thing. Happened to me in -5 C degrees.

Had problems with one of my drives the other day (drop frames for absolutely no reason), switched to my 2nd drive (not sure if I had reboots on the 2nd drive, but I'll track more closely). Today when 2nd drive was full and switched back to 1st drive with problem it rebooted on playback.

Never had this problem before until upgrade and camera was returned with new firmware.

[Steve Sherrick]

I hear you brother, but this in essence is what is happening - I'm selecting Redspace and unbeknownst to me it is actually using Rec709.


"
Oh, that's bad. I'm going to see if I can recreate this on my camera.

[HD Hildebrand]

Oh, Steve, just to make sure symantics of the English language are not being misinterpreted, I want to repeat my earlier statement - I set to Redspace and at some point it automatically changes to 709 in the middle of shooting. I don't know if it happens during a recycle (battery being replaced and rebooting) or it just happens. If I toggle back to "view" it now states that it is set for 709 (even though it was set for Redspace). So... this is where I say "I'm selecting Redspace and unbeknownst to me it is actually using Rec709". Hope this makes sense.

Oh, and this has happened on 2 different cameras with build 17.

Cheers,
Dale


Oh, that's bad. I'm going to see if I can recreate this on my camera.

[Steve Sherrick]

I just tested again, and I can't seem to replicate this problem. Mine seems to come back just the way it should. I even switched some things around in my settings such as playback from clip to camera, but doesn't seem to trigger this behavior. I'll keep an eye on it though and if it pops up, I'll post back with that.