HV20 Rolling Shutter

[Stephen Gentle]

Hi,

We're thinking of buying an HV20 and a lens converter soon, as it has great picture quality, and the live uncompressed HDMI out is a great bonus. But recently I've been seeing a lot of complaints about rolling shutter artifacts.

I highly doubt that I will need to do any 3D motion tracking with footage from this camera (although it could happen in the future), but we will be using it handheld a lot.

I've heard that if you lock your shutter speed to 1/48 (or 1/50 for us in PAL land), and not do any really fast pans it's manageable....

Do you still think it's a good buy?

Thanks,

-Stephen

[dalemccready]

Best read this from Stu Maschwitz....

prolost (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2007/05/hv20s-rolling-shutter.html)

[Jim Arthurs]

Best read this from Stu Maschwitz....

prolost (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2007/05/hv20s-rolling-shutter.html)

...or this informative thread on the HV20 from Russ Andersson, creator of Syntheyes, my 3D tracking program of choice...

http://cybermessageboard.fatcow.com/ssonte/viewtopic.php?t=478&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

I can feel his pain, as he got the camera to put together HD demo footage for his match moving tutorials and such, talk about the wrong camera for a specific application!

...This whole thing soured me so quick on the hv20 for any sort of semi-pro use it isn't even funny...I'd stay far away from the hv20 for 3D tracking, just like you should stay away from HDV or miniDV generally speaking, for quality keying...

Again, if you're just taking pretty pictures of the wife, kids and pets, who cares? But it's simply the wrong tool for the job for match moving. You might be able to cheat a shot or two, but why knowingly put yourself in that position?

[P Andersson]

see the hv20 and tracking in practice

http://rebelsguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=340

http://rebelsguide.com/dl/SYNTHEYES_TEST1_Comp_1_LRES.mov

see uncompressed hdmi footage through the intensity with cineform tests

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=94079&page=1

(i bought one)

[Jim Arthurs]

I saw that test before I posted and didn't change my view. Again, as Russ mentions in his thread, it's a roll of the dice on subject matter and the shot layout. One example of a mediocre un-refined track does not a good camera for tracking make.

Again, if tracking is not a concern for you, then it's no concern. And that's 99.9% of the people that will be buying the camera. If it is a concern because you want to use such effects in your work, this is the wrong camera to get.

[Sean]

I'm curious how Red deals with a rolling shutter (and the resulting image issues) in comparison to a lower-end camera like the HV20.

[donatello b]

"as it has great picture quality"

yes = good piture quality for the "$$" ...
i just got the HV20 and it is working out GREAT shooting the grand kids, traveling etc ... so far the rolling shutter slanted lines haven't been noticed - they are there if you look for em but if you have your eye on the subject i don't see em... have not seen any wobble effect to date ...

i would say that you have to look at the HV20 good/bad points and then use it based on how you can put either or both good/bad points to use in a project ...

[Jim Arthurs]

I'm curious how Red deals with a rolling shutter (and the resulting image issues) in comparison to a lower-end camera like the HV20.

I'm confident that the RED Team has found some way to get this under control.

I do intend to study and better understand the various issues with rolling shutters and slew/skew because with CMOS cameras hitting the field, we FX guys will have to deal with that sort of footage, like it or not.

[Stephen Gentle]

Thanks for the advice and links guys.

I might still buy this - it would mostly be used just as a handycam, but also for a few small projects.

I could just hire / borrow a better camera if I ever need to do any 3D stuff.

[Stu Maschwitz]

I'm confident that the RED Team has found some way to get this under control.

Has anyone from Red spoken to this issue directly? Maybe I missed the thread?

-Stu

[Steve Tammi]

Has anyone from Red spoken to this issue directly? Maybe I missed the thread?

-Stu

Sort of...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1983

[Stu Maschwitz]

Yikes.

-Stu