Silverado Systems RED Rental

[Scott_Uhlfelder]

Has and one seen this site. They advertise you can rent a full red package for $6000 a week. http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=859&cat=0&page=1

[Bruce Allen]

Interesting... our own Mike Curtis also has started selling "HD For Indies" branded edit systems through Silverado too....
http://silverado.cc/shop/home.php?cat=107
...but I don't think that's his camera - the number is too low. Also, the lens options are kinda weird (Red 300mm or B4 + Zeiss DigiZoom ?!)... and they spelled O'Connor wrong... Maybe Mike will help them fix that?

Personally I think they should have some sort of deal where you pay a bit extra and get 10 free phone calls at any time of day to Mike about how to get it all playing nicely with your edit system ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Tom Lowe]

I'm sure I'm gonna get blasted for saying this, but it seems a little steep to me. What are F23s and F950s and Vipers and D-20s renting for? Those cameras cost three times as much as a RED. The lens options don't appeal to me either.

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

I mailed them at the weekend. They replied that the would supply Red prime lenses & the site would be updated soon.

Stephen


Interesting... our own Mike Curtis also has started selling "HD For Indies" branded edit systems through Silverado too....
http://silverado.cc/shop/home.php?cat=107
...but I don't think that's his camera - the number is too low. Also, the lens options are kinda weird (Red 300mm or B4 + Zeiss DigiZoom ?!)... and they spelled O'Connor wrong... Maybe Mike will help them fix that?

Personally I think they should have some sort of deal where you pay a bit extra and get 10 free phone calls at any time of day to Mike about how to get it all playing nicely with your edit system ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Joel Kaye]

I wonder if RED rates will be supply and demand or strictly based on the cost. I've already heard one guy tell me he was quoted $350/day for RED with 3 day weeks. I'll believe it when I see it. My guess is rates will get pretty low once all reservations are filled.

[Stephen Williams]

I wonder if RED rates will be supply and demand or strictly based on the cost. I've already heard one guy tell me he was quoted $350/day for RED with 3 day weeks. I'll believe it when I see it. My guess is rates will get pretty low once all reservations are filled.

Hi,

That depends what is included for $1050 a week. The body is only $17500 so it's realistic if the package is Camera body, eyepiece, drive & batteries.

Film packages with lenses are available less than that, 1 day week's!

Stephen

[Jason Francois]

I'm one of the people that thinks RED's will be renting for fairly high prices in the beginning, but will get fairly reasonable as orders are filled and cameras are all over the market.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think RED will rent out for inflated prices in the beginning. I still think it will be less than a Dalsa or Genesis rental though. Once initial reservations are filled and demand tapers off, RED should be fairly cheap to rent -- or at least the camera body will be. I would be surprised if a RED body rental ends up costing more than renting a Panasonic HPX2000 body or something in that range.

The Silverado price at $6K/week doesn't seem to far off (and that's claiming a 25% discount). At this stage in the game, that seems fair if we assume the higher demand, especially if all the other kit mentioned is optionally included within that price.

[Ivan G]

I'm sure I'm gonna get blasted for saying this, but it seems a little steep to me. What are F23s and F950s and Vipers and D-20s renting for? Those cameras cost three times as much as a RED. The lens options don't appeal to me either.


You right in a way. But, #20 in line and no where to get a RED for the time being. I think that's reasonable. It's timing that will get that price for now. But who knows what will happen in the future. Hell! The cameras aren't even shipping!

[Sanjin Jukic]

I think RED will rent out for inflated prices in the beginning. I still think it will be less than a Dalsa or Genesis rental though. Once initial reservations are filled and demand tapers off, RED should be fairly cheap to rent -- or at least the camera body will be. I would be surprised if a RED body rental ends up costing more than renting a Panasonic HPX2000 body or something in that range.

RED body cheap to rent like Panasonic HPX2000 body!!!???.

Pretty DOWNGRADING for RED and all of us the reservation holders and even more many future users and rentals.

Hope the RED future life would not turn in to this HORROR.

[Robert Sanders]

$6000 a week? That's WAY too high. I can get a fully loaded F900 with a full set of Arri DigiPrimes, matte box, follow focus, external monitors, tripod and head, batteries and chargers for $4500/wk.

Christ, a three week rental for a feature earns them almost 30% of their total investment back. Come on!

While the RED blows the F900 out of the water in terms of resolution and picture quality, we're talking about an investment for the rental house of 1/4 the amount.

I think $500-600 per day (or $1500-1800 per week) for a basic RED package is reasonable.

[Robert Sanders]

IndieRentals in Hollywood is renting their RED package out for $4950 per MONTH. $1475 per week. That doesn't include lenses.

Still, that's FAR more reasonable, me thinks.

[Mark L. Pederson]

People will speculate all they want - but any way you slice it, it's supply and demand.

Right now, the demand is so high - (even higher than before because so many people assumed the cameras would already be available and they hype continues to grow) - right now, people will pay MUCH more than Genesis or Viper to shoot with the RED. I know this first hand. To the people we are speaking with, it's just as much about the workflow, what that offers and saves the producers and companies in time and money.

Eventually, there will be thousands of REDs and EVERY production company worth their salt will own at least one RED camera - because it's going to be very hard for a production company to compete without owning one.

Eventually, base rental rates will be VERY, VERY low.

How long will that take? Your guess is as good as mine. I'd say it will be the "wild west" in Red rental land until this time next year. Demand is just soooo high.

How many production companies own a Final Cut Pro systems or Avids? ... or should I ask - do you know a production company that doesn't have an FCP or Avid system in house?

This time next year ... "do you know a production company that doesn't own at least one RED camera?"

[David Wyatt]

$6000?? Don't the Zeiss DigiZooms go for about $800/day (that's $2400 for a 3 day week, leaving $3600/week or $1200/day for the camera, accessories and grip). I couldn't see a monitor included in that package, so that would be extra. And I wouldn't equate a 300mm Red prime with a DigiPrime like they have (you could buy the 300mm outright with a couple of weeks hire of a DigiZoom). I think this camera should go for at least what an F900 goes for (although it's superior of course), but as others have stated in the first few months supply and demand will dictate.

[Ken Willinger]

I think a lot will depend on what market you are in. A complete package without glass will cost about 35K to 40K to purchase with all accessories. That is close to what a Varicam body sells for. Varicams rent for about 6 to 8 hundred a day with a lens. The RED will end up in that range without glass I think.

[Tonaci Tran]

I'm diggin the marketing job that silverado did for this camera rental. Though one thing came to mind, other than the single 300mm primes lens which has limited use, the package hes renting can otherwise only do 1080p. He needs to throw in at least a used cooke or perhaps a nikon set so that the users can shoot 4k across the range.

[Robert Sanders]

I'm diggin the marketing job that silverado did for this camera rental. Though one thing came to mind, other than the single 300mm primes lens which has limited use, the package hes renting can otherwise only do 1080p. He needs to throw in at least a used cooke or perhaps a nikon set so that the users can shoot 4k across the range.

For those prices the kit HAS to include a set of 35mm primes or a bad-ass zoom. Otherwise the Silverado rates are outrageous.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

RED body cheap to rent like Panasonic HPX2000 body!!!???.

Pretty DOWNGRADING for RED and all of us the reservation holders and even more many future users and rentals.

Hope the RED future life would not turn in to this HORROR.

Economics will prevail. Sadly this will happen. The RED body is only $17.5K. The Panasonic HPX2000 body is $55K. You do the math on that one. People renting RED will know how much they sell for and they're not going to pay inflated rental prices just because RED is better. Once supply fills the demand and there are no long lines at rental houses, it's only a matter of time before RED rental prices equalize.

Of course, this is all talking about once supply and demand level out. Until then, like offhollywood said, it's a supply and demand issue. The first 1500 RED holders will be able to rent their cameras pretty easily I would think and will be able to charge a nice premium too.

This is not downgrading or degrading to RED and us reservation holders. This is what the revolution is about. It's about placing top of the line digital cinema systems in the hands of anyone who wants to shoot with them.

Of course, in the end, renting a RED package will probably cost more than renting an HPX2000 package due to the 35mm lenses and additional cine gear that will usually go along with it vs. the HPX2000 that is more ENG and broadcast oriented. Which is why I was using the body as an example... You can't squeeze $3600/week out of a $17,500 camera body once that camera has decent availability. At the point where it costs about the same or more to rent the camera for 3~4 weeks as it does to buy it, you won't be renting many cameras. Once the supply to demand ratio equalizes, I think we can realistically see RED one bodies renting out for $450/day or $1500/week, maybe as much as $1800/week depending on demographics. A RED rental should pay for itself within 8 to 12 weeks at those rates.

Initial inflated rates may be as much as double that, but probably not. Unless someone just has extra money to burn while trying a new toy, they're not going to rent RED unless the price makes sense.

I'm considering renting out my RED kit, but my rates will be higher than average. Primarily because I don't want to rent it out very much. It will probably rent only as a complete kit too -- with the renter choosing either Nikon or PL mount and lens kit, I may not even deal with the Nikon mount either. I guess we'll see when the time comes.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Economics will prevail. Sadly this will happen. The RED body is only $17.5K. The Panasonic HPX2000 body is $55K. You do the math on that one.

This is not downgrading or degrading to RED and us reservation holders. This is what the revolution is about. It's about placing top of the line digital cinema systems in the hands of anyone who wants to shoot with them.

Of course, in the end, renting a RED package will probably cost more than renting an HPX2000 package due to the 35mm lenses and additional cine gear that will usually go along with it vs. the HPX2000 that is more ENG and broadcast oriented.

Initial inflated rates may be as much as double that, but probably not. Unless someone just has extra money to burn while trying a new toy, they're not going to rent RED unless the price makes sense.

I'm considering renting out my RED kit, but my rates will be higher than average. Primarily because I don't want to rent it out very much. It will probably rent only as a complete kit too -- with the renter choosing either Nikon or PL mount and lens kit, I may not even deal with the Nikon mount either. I guess we'll see when the time comes.

Have a look on my rental rates(link!) (http://www.sanjinjukic.com/page2/page2.html) and you could conclude that are prettty real even for a future calculation. Do the math again and put all the things in it. JUST TO BE A REAL.

[Barend Onneweer]

Have a look on my rental rates and you could conclude that are prettty real even for a future calculation. Do the math again and put all the things in it. JUST TO BE A REAL.

Well, there's no way to judge how realistic those rates are when there are no details on what's included in the package.

Also: rental rates are only partially based on the purchase value of the actual equipment in the package. The type of service and quality of advice offered and the availability of replacement cameras (big deal!) are a big part of the 'calculation'.

FWIW: I've never had to pay the full rental fee upfront, and I don't think I ever will.

Bar3nd

[jaadgy akanni]

RED should sell to rental businesses at 2x the price, at least. I see what they're trying to do. They're trying to force the price of the RED to be upped so that they can protect their investment in those other cameras that are in danger of losing their value when RED comes on the scene. I have faith that Jim will never fall into the trap of becoming exactly what he's here to combat.

[donatello b]

IMO nobody is trying to force the RED up other then supply & demand ..
at rental houses all the accessories, lenses, sticks remain the same price
... most big rental houses offer camera "SYSTEMs & service " something a individual Red owner probably can't match ... if a projects needs 2 REDs , 2 Arri's 435's, D20 and whatever else a rental house will deliver on any date camera's are needed ...
i don't rent from individuals - for most projects they just can't deliver the special needed equipment so you end up going to a rental house ..in the end you may have received a sweet rental deal from individual but the rental house charges you full price because you are renting parts not a system ...
Hollywood pays whatever the going RATE & they expect service ...
i'm sure LA rental houses have in orders ... and those that don't may be contacting individual's ... i've been contacted about RED 103 ( i'm not interested) and they're not interested in RED 1051 ( which i would consider)

[Yash Keough]

Yeah that sounds pretty pricey. The producer at the production company I interned at a while ago told me their Sony F900 package which I believed included most of what was needed such as lenses and sticks and a head rented for $2500 a day (somewhere around there) and while RED is no doubt better, it has I believe a lower retail price. So yeah 6000 seems pretty overpriced especially considering that for around $30K you could have your own RED package. But then again I guess that depends on your needs. I'm no expert and so I'm sure some people would tell me otherwise! :-)

[donatello b]

"considering that for around $30K you could have your own RED package"

one will not buy the same package they are offering at 6k week for 30k.
and if one doesn't have a reservation they are not going to get one till sometime in 2008 ...
so for some 6k a week might be reasonable for what is available ( as in all camera's) on the dates of their project ...

till supply meets demand forget how much RED cost - cinealta at 4500-7500 wk ( 2500 day quoted post 23) ..or RED at 6k week

[PaulClements]

Perhaps I'm being overly skeptical, but when someone comes to these forums and makes a post singling out a company in such a way (Where there is significant financial gain in advertising to a community where individuals will be looking to hire such equipment), has never previously made a post before and hasn't made another post since starting this topic, it always strikes me as being an advertisement stunt by someone at the company in question. Perhaps it's a means of promoting their website to get higher links on search engines.

Maybe Scott is a genuine poster and I'm being unfair, but it seems a bit odd. There are plenty of topics about rental costs all over reduser.

[Stephen Williams]

Have a look on my rental rates(link!) (http://www.sanjinjukic.com/page2/page2.html) and you could conclude that are prettty real even for a future calculation. Do the math again and put all the things in it. JUST TO BE A REAL.

Hi,

10,000 euro a month paid upfront. Sounds like a good deal!

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

10,000 euro a month paid upfront. Sounds like a good deal!

Stephen

I think it is a reasonable price for RED body with some extras. This could be fixed price that should last for a longer period.

[overlandfilms]

A minimally configured RED system ($35k) with variable prime / zoom lens should rent for about $1750 a day or $5250 a 3-day week. There will certainly be very competitive individuals out there who will rent their kit for much less - especially if there's a day of work in it as a DIT or AC at minimum.

I'm expecting $1k/d, $3k/3dw on this system, with drives and extra lenses added piecemeal for a premium.

I don't know who's doing one-day weeks, but they deserve nothing less than a little visit from... well, let's just say that one day weeks would be the nail in the coffin of the already hightly diluted rental business segment.

:ranting2:

[Stephen Williams]

I think it is a reasonable price for RED body with some extras. This could be fixed price that should last for a longer period.

Hi,

Just got a quote from XE.com 10,000.00 EUR = 13,438.96 USD . If those extras include Cooke S4's or Zeiss Master primes I would tend to agree.

Stephen

[planet e]

another benefit of early-early adoption is that you can charge higher rates for awhile...until you can't. if silverado can find some clients willing to pay those rates, more power to 'em and good luck.

we are all taking a random walk down RED street...we have no idea what the market will support until we have a market. the rest is just a combination of guesswork, opportunism, and hope, and the vicissitudes of good fortune.

market inefficiencies have a way of vanishing very quickly. gather ye rosebuds while ye may...etcetera.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

Just got a quote from XE.com 10,000.00 EUR = 13,438.96 USD . If those extras include Cooke S4's or Zeiss Master primes I would tend to agree.

Stephen

ARRI rental Wien Austria:

Quote from the price list>>

Cooke S4 Primes
14 mm T 2.0 daily 180 Euro weekly 540 Euro
Rest sizes
130 Euro daily 390 weekly

Zeiss Ultra Primes

Between>>
180-160-110 Euro daily, wide lenses are always more expensive
540-480-330 weekly

My rental RED prices are for the RED body and some extras (EVF etc...)

- The RED rental package rates:

1. € 850,00 daily
2. € 2.500,00 weekly
3. € 10.000,00 monthly

Now you could somehow count a final price.

I call it a RED REAL DEAL.

Rental starts in Fall.

[Stephen Williams]

ARRI rental Wien Austria:

Quote from the price list>>

Cooke S4 Primes
14 mm T 2.0 daily 180 Euro weekly 540 Euro
Rest sizes
130 Euro daily 390 weekly

Zeiss Ultra Primes

Between>>
180-160-110 Euro daily, wide lenses are always more expensive
540-480-330 weekly

My rental RED prices are for the RED body and some extras (EVF etc...)

- The RED rental package rates:

1. € 850,00 daily
2. € 2.500,00 weekly
3. € 10.000,00 monthly

Now you could somehow count a final price.

I call it a RED REAL DEAL.

Rental starts in Fall.


Hi,

Remember a Red body costs less than 2 Cooke S4 lenses.

I would expect about a 50% discount from Arri rental prices, I am sure others have the same experience.

If you really think producers will pay you in excess of 50% of cost for 1 month rental, I think you may be in for a surprise.

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Stephen,

Let's say it is still SUGGESTED price list based on the analysis from ARRI rental price list (link below) were I put instead of 35 mm ARRIFLEX camera of any type one RED camera body + basic extras and then you could add lenses and accessories rent.

I could not figure out WHAT IS WRONG with my calculation?

Have a look
http://www.arri.de/sub/de/rental/download/rental_e_pl_p.pdf

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen,


I could not figure out WHAT IS WRONG with my calculation?

Have a look
http://www.arri.de/sub/de/rental/download/rental_e_pl_p.pdf

Hi,

The Indie filmakers would probably take the BL1, 235 Euro a day or 705 a week. BTW I know somebody who paid 450 a week for a BL 4.

As your package offered probably costs under 20,000 euros then 10,000 euros for a month rental would seem high.

There is nothing wrong with your calculation if you can find customers happy to pay.

Stephen

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If you really think producers will pay you in excess of 50% of cost for 1 month rental, I think you may be in for a surprise.

Yep, that isn't going to happen. Initially, it might as demand is high. So those who get RED early and are going to rent it out, milk it for all you can. :biggrin: :greedy: :biggrin:

But once supply can fill demand, there's no way a RED body with some extras will rent for 10K euros ($13K) per month when someone can buy it outright for double that or less. That's the point where it makes far more sense to just buy it and sell it when you're done.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't charge that much... If you can and you can keep customers then by all means, go for it! :) I don't think it will be a problem in the beginning. I'm just saying that sooner or later the market will equalize and the economics of RED's hardware will come into play. No one in their right mind would pay 50% or more of purchase cost for a month rental.

Those low-ball body rental rates I posted, aren't far off. I can say with confidence that I could rent my RED for those rates and easily make money with it. I don't want to be in the rental business though. But I think in competitive markets where there's a number of rental houses and sources for RED to choose from, rates are going to adjust in relation to purchase price. The ones who have the most to fear are those with large investments into more expensive gear that RED will easily replace.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

The Indie filmakers would probably take the BL1, 235 Euro a day or 705 a week. BTW I know somebody who paid 450 a week for a BL 4.

As your package offered probably costs under 20,000 euros then 10,000 euros for a month rental would seem high.

There is nothing wrong with your calculation if you can find customers happy to pay.

Stephen

Stephen,

it is not that I could find customers that happy to pay...

it is about that with RED (and it is HOTTEST digicam on the market) you are in SUPER (FERRARI) FAST option to start your footage in 4K to edit and color grade that makes a big difference than all other competing digital or analog acquisition systems. For that "JOKE" in future rental business you HAVE TO PAY something like a descent price even if it is from "big rentals" like Band Pro or Otto Nemenz and similar(s) companies. That should be really PAID FOR the revolution of the RED ONE (and it is HOTTEST digicam on the market).

We should not make fun of the RED ONE even if it is for a rental business. A lot of reservation holders making a wrong attitude that it is totally against the RED like an idea, or project or whatever...

And don't downgrade the RED ONE BODY price that it is TREATED NOW form the enemies as a sort of the SUPERMARKET 4K camera price!!!

This would lead all of US nowhere!!!

Nobody is throttle here!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Sanjin,

I understand where you're coming from. And this point of view is why the demand for RED is very high right now. And why early adopters will be able to charge premiums. However, as we move past the initial RED rush, we won't be able to base rental prices off our pride in RED or the abilities of RED compared to other cameras. Business is business and money is money and the fact of the matter is, we're talking about a $17K camera body.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Jeff,

I am back with the new calculation based on a real camera price and rental.
The comparison reference is ARRIFLEX EXTREME 435 35 mm FILM camera body.

Let us have calculation like this:

ARRIFLEX 435 EXTREME body price is Euro/€ 72.200,00
Download ARRI price list pdf from here below
http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/2006_05-15_ARRI_CamPriceList.pdf

ARRIFLEX 435 ADVANCED rental price at ARRI rental Austria is
Euro/€ 750 daily or Euro/€ 2.250 weekly.
Download ARRI rental Vienna price list here below
http://www.arri.com/sub/de/rental/download/price.htm

Go back to the RED

RED body Euro/€ 17.000,00 OR about 4 X (times) less than
ARRIFLEX EXTREME that per your suggestion the RED rent should be 4 X (times) lower.

That is about Euro/€ 187,5 daily or 562.5 weekly.

That is about REVOLUTION in the rental prices that everybody here is asking for.
But I claim that the price of any REVOLUTION was always HIGHER than expected.
That means RED rental prices should be a bit higher even if you can found RED around every corner in the future.

The REVOLUTION costs.

That should be a reason than ARRI and PANAVISION do not want to sell or to announce the prices for their
DIGITAL REVOLUTION cams D20 and GENESIS. It is easy to rent them for a high price.
Sony and Thompson Viper are the "best". They OVERPRICED their HD products and with that the rentals are happy too.

But the RED is a real REVOLUTION and for that also in a rental business you should be able to ask/pay a bit higher price.

[Stephen Williams]

Jeff,

I am back with the new calculation based on a real camera price and rental.
The comparison reference is ARRIFLEX EXTREME 435 35 mm FILM camera body.

Let us have calculation like this:

ARRIFLEX 435 EXTREME body price is Euro/€ 72.200,00
Download ARRI price list pdf from here below
http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/2006_05-15_ARRI_CamPriceList.pdf

ARRIFLEX 435 ADVANCED rental price at ARRI rental Austria is
Euro/€ 750 daily or Euro/€ 2.250 weekly.

Go back to the RED

RED body Euro/€ 17.000,00 OR about 4 X (times) less than
ARRIFLEX EXTREME that per your suggestion the RED rent should be 4 X (times) lower.

That is about Euro/€ 187,5 daily or 562.5 weekly.

That is about REVOLUTION in the rental prices that everybody here is asking for.
But I claim that the price of any REVOLUTION was always HIGHER than expected.
That means RED rental prices should be a bit higher even if you can found RED around every corner in the future.

The REVOLUTION costs.

That should be a reason than ARRI and PANAVISION do not want to sell or to announce the prices for their
DIGITAL REVOLUTION cams D20 and GENESIS. It is easy to rent them for a high price.
Sony and Thompson Viper are the "best". They OVERPRICED their HD products and with that the rentals are happy too.

But the RED is a real REVOLUTION and for that also in a rental business you should be able to ask/pay a bit higher price.


Hi,

Arri is charging about 1% of cost per day, that has been fairly standard business practice for years. I am sure Arri will soon rent Red bodies, their price may well be 200 euro a day, we will have to wait and see!

Thompson took 4 years to sell 50 Viper cameras, I don't think they made much money on the R+D.

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Stephen,

I totally agree.

[Paul Hazlett]

I think what also has to be communicated to prospective renters, if they dont already know, Once they rent the camera and buy a drive to dump to-
thats it. no fillm to buy to film to process. that money has to be factored in the equation.

[Sanjin Jukic]

The RED rental reality in the future (probably fom the beginning of 2008)
because 2007 should still remains like "Eldorado" (sounds almost like Silverado)
year for the reservation holders/rentals.
But gold is anyway better and more valuable than silver.

RED body future REAL rental prices:

200 $/€ daily

600 $/€ weekly

2500 $/€ monthly


So the RED rental needs about 7 months of RED rental to refund the RED body purchase.

$ 2500 X 7 = $ 17.500


Good or bad but sounds real.

[Michael Hastings]

You should probably consider the rental prices for the HDW-F900 - it rents here in the US for $1,000.00/day (=euro 750) or about the same price as the Arri 435.

I think us early res holders will be able to get this for the first 3 to 4 months. Once deliveries get going significantly I think the rental prices will drop in half, and a little while after will stabilize about where third man says. I think daily will stay a little higher - say $400/day - as electronic gear tends to need a quicker amortization and greater cost buffer for more expensive repairs. But real weekly and monthly rates will be about $ 1200/week and as he says, about $3000/month.


Hi,

Arri is charging about 1% of cost per day, that has been fairly standard business practice for years. Stephen


I think what also has to be communicated to prospective renters, if they dont already know, Once they rent the camera and buy a drive to dump to-
thats it. no fillm to buy to film to process. that money has to be factored in the equation.


The RED rental reality in the future (probably fom the beginning of 2008)
because 2007 should still remains like "Eldorado" (sounds almost like Silverado)
year for the reservation holders/rentals.
But gold is anyway better and more valuable than silver.

RED body future REAL rental prices:

200 $/€ daily

600 $/€ weekly

2500 $/€ monthly


So the RED rental needs about 7 months of RED rental to refund the RED body purchase.

$ 2500 X 7 = $ 17.500


Good or bad but sounds real.

PS $17500 is only about 13500 euros thanks to Uncle George destroying the value of our currency.

[Joel Kaye]

But real weekly and monthly rates will be about $ 1200/week and as he says, about $3000/month.
PS $17500 is only about 13500 euros thanks to Uncle George destroying the value of our currency.

A friend of mine got a F-900 package for $10K for a month earlier this year. I think RED prices will depend on the local competition a lot. In LA it'll be cheapest. In cities without a lot of rental houses it'll probably be a couple hundred higher I'd guess. I'm kinda curious how fast the rates will drop.

[Michael Hastings]

A friend of mine got a F-900 package for $10K for a month earlier this year. I think RED prices will depend on the local competition a lot. In LA it'll be cheapest. In cities without a lot of rental houses it'll probably be a couple hundred higher I'd guess. I'm kinda curious how fast the rates will drop.

As time goes on you're absolutely right. Initially, we'll get some rentals from other areas through REDUSER itself and searches. Once the supply is up it will be pretty much just another camera to rent.

[Sanjin Jukic]

All my calculation were done approximately even $/€ currency exchange.

Also we all reservation holders in EU/AU/NZL/SA/China/Japan appreciate a lot from "Uncle George" HELP when comes time to pay our REDs.

One more thanks "Uncle George".

[Stephen Williams]

The RED rental reality in the future (probably fom the beginning of 2008)
because 2007 should still remains like "Eldorado" (sounds almost like Silverado)
year for the reservation holders/rentals.
But gold is anyway better and more valuable than silver.

RED body future REAL rental prices:

200 $/€ daily

600 $/€ weekly

2500 $/€ monthly


So the RED rental needs about 7 months of RED rental to refund the RED body purchase.

$ 2500 X 7 = $ 17.500


Good or bad but sounds real.


Hi,

Those no's look realistic to me, charge any more and the producer's will buy a camera and sell it after their production.

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

Those no's look realistic to me, charge any more and the producer's will buy a camera and sell it after their production.

Stephen

Hi Stephen

I found one German rental (ludwig kameraverleih gmbh - münchen-link (http://www.ludwigkameraverleih.de/)) that has in the price list RED basic package for about 400 € daily.

Price list link below (look at page 1 in the "Mietpreisliste Kamera" section).
http://ludwig.mercatus-doc.de/web/data/html//MietPreisliste_Ludwig0506.pdf

That means:

400 € daily

1200 € weekly

4800 € monthly

Is it real now?

RED body refund time in 2.7 months of rental.

17.500 US $ = 12,962.96 Euro (EUR) Sunday, June 3, 2007 according
to BANK AUSTRIA currency calculator for the foreign exchange that can be found on the link below
http://kursinfo.ba-ca.com/CurrencyCalculator.html?lang=en

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen

I found one German rental (ludwig kameraverleih gmbh - münchen-link (http://www.ludwigkameraverleih.de/)) that has in the price list RED basic package for about 400 € daily.

Price list link below (look at page 1 in the "Mietpreisliste Kamera" section).
http://ludwig.mercatus-doc.de/web/data/html//MietPreisliste_Ludwig0506.pdf

That means:

400 € daily

1200 € weekly

4800 € monthly

Is it real now?

RED body refund time in 2.7 months of rental.

17.500 US $ = 12,962.96 Euro (EUR) Sunday, June 3, 2007 according
to BANK AUSTRIA currency calculator for the foreign exchange that can be found on the link below
http://kursinfo.ba-ca.com/CurrencyCalculator.html?lang=en


Hi,

They will probably give everybody a 50 % introduction discount! If only there was so much money to be made renting cameras!

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

They will probably give everybody a 50 % introduction discount! If only there was so much money to be made renting cameras!

Stephen

50 % introduction discount could be a pure speculation without a base. Nobody is providing any discount in a rental business, it sound like a customer dream but Otto Nemez in US or ARRI worldwide, not even Panavision has 50% off intro for Genesis giving any 50 % officially. 50 % off intro price I would like to see the facts in any online price lists.

[Stephen Williams]

I would like to see the facts in any online price lists.

Hi,

You never will! This is show business!

Stephen

Edit Out of interest how many Days / Weeks / Months have you sold so far?

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

You never will! This is show business!

Stephen

Edit Out of interest how many Days / Weeks / Months have you sold so far?

So I rent for 200 EUR underneath, write and advertise online that I am doing it for 400 EUR.

Such a great business that show business.

[Stephen Williams]

So I rent for 200 EUR underneath, write and advertise online that I am doing it for 400 EUR.

Such a great business that show business.

Hi,

Many people will feel more comfortable renting from a larger rental company, with a choice of lenses, lighting & grip equipment. They also provide back ups when equipment fails. Getting into the rental business with just one Red Camera puts you at a slight disadvantage. Panavision has over 1000 film cameras + 300 cine altas.

I am interested to come back to this conversation in 1 year!

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Small rentals for small projects.
Big rentals for big projects.
In a year we will see all what we have got.

[Torrey Loomis]

Folks,

My name is Torrey and I own Silverado Systems. Lots of interesting comments on our Red rentals coming later this year.

My own fault for not updating the page sooner--still need to do some tweaking. However, posting here first that each rental will come with seven lenses: the five-prime pack, 300mm lens, and the 18-50mm zoom.

We plan on spending around $70,000 per kit fully rigged. Each system will go out fully equipped to handle anything. There may be others who want to rent their systems a la carte, but ours will ship complete.

Yes--we have numbers 20 and 21. I stood in line--checkbook in hand--behind some other folks wondering if I was doing the right thing. When I saw a sneak peak at some of the folks numbering 1-10 on the list, I would have written them anything they wanted on the spot.

For a little trivia--we've been offered upwards of $75,000 for the #20 spot--not the gear--but the spot alone...

[Sanjin Jukic]

Torrey, all CONGRATS to SilverAdo RED Rental!!!

[Torrey Loomis]

If silverado can find some clients willing to pay those rates, more power to 'em and good luck.

We've already logged MANY weekly rentals at $8000 per week.

People don't need to go bottom-of-the-barrel for their rentals. If you provide good service, an excellent package, and a sound base of experience to draw on--then people are fine paying for it.

Will everyone want to pay that? Nah...and that's OK.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Check out our Insider blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Rudi Herbert]

Agree with Torster,

You're free to charge whatever you want, and others free to decide whether they want to pay it or not. I was one of the lucky ones to receive a set of free DVD's from Silverado with a ton of R3d files tlo play with, and with that came a little brochure about their operation. They are well set, seem very professional and the kind of operation that will probably back you up with their rentals whenever something goes wrong, which is the most important piece of kit you're buying in ANY package.

And onto something else, I see that Silverado will be renting fully configured Scratch systems for $4K a month, now, that sounds VERY, VERY, VERY interesting to me. Any details on that Torster?

[Torrey Loomis]

And onto something else, I see that Silverado will be renting fully configured Scratch systems for $4K a month, now, that sounds VERY, VERY, VERY interesting to me. Any details on that Torster?

Rudi,

Not rental per se, but more like lease-to-own.

If we offered a bona fide rental, would that be something people would be interested in?

Torrey

[Rudi Herbert]

Rudi, If we offered a bona fide rental, would that be something people would be interested in?

Torrey

I know I would be EXTREMELY interested. Rent to own is a different animal, as for example in this particular case, I don't know that I wanna keep Scratch as my main app and/or have to find projects on a regular basis to keep making the payments until the period is over, probably 2-3 years later. But being able to rent a Scratch system for a few months to complete the 2-3 projects a year that I usually work on would be great. I would do most of my primary color correction and conforming and then take the project to a professional colorist like mmost or any other for the final pass. That would be a VERY attractive possibility and I know I would definitely go for it.