Nikon Lens Adapter

[James T Mather]

Hi there,

I have searched the forums etc and found no actual mention of a Still lens adapter for the camera despite lots of talk about Nikon lenses etc - is a stills adapter being offered by red? or another third party? and is this something that fits between the PL and the lens or is it a more elaborate switch?

Many thanks

J.

[Evin Grant]

Red will be shipping a Nikon F mount at the same time as the Red One. It will be additional $ though. Other mounts to follow later including Canon FD and possibly Leica.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks Evin, great NEWS!!!

[Damien Molineaux]

Hi there,

I have searched the forums etc and found no actual mention of a Still lens adapter for the camera despite lots of talk about Nikon lenses etc - is a stills adapter being offered by red? or another third party? and is this something that fits between the PL and the lens or is it a more elaborate switch?

Many thanks

J.

The Nikon (and other) mount replaces the PL mount on the camera. The question remains as to how easy (or not) it will be to switch mounts.

Have you searched on dvxuser.com ? The red forum there is now closed, but archives are still available. Jim Jannard has clearly stated Red will be making a Nikon mount.

Damien

[Evin Grant]

My guess is the mounts will be "Field Replaceable" which means in a camera truck or hotel room but not in an actual field!

[Emanuel A.]

Well, Jim :) posted on subject guaranteeing it would/will be...:

«Very easy. The Trick is to have the base to intermediate mount distance set at the factory and leave enough room for all possible mounts. More details pretty soon.

jim»

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=690531&postcount=5

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

I´m going to use my (actually my wife´s) old Nikkor lenses, but also the Red 300mm. Hopefully I dont have to go to a hotel room to switch lenses.

Or do I?

Jochen

[Mark Tyson]

Is there any interest by red in supporting Olympus or others 4/3 lenses.

[Stephen Williams]

I´m going to use my (actually my wife´s) old Nikkor lenses, but also the Red 300mm. Hopefully I dont have to go to a hotel room to switch lenses.

Or do I?

Jochen

Hi,

As you will need to change mounts, I think you would be well advised to!

The tolerance is idealy +/- 2 microns(Panavision spec) you would be lucky to achieve +/- 5 microns (Arri spec) in your hotel room.

Stephen

[Chris Gearhart]

Hopefully I dont have to go to a hotel room to switch lenses.

Jochen

What if there are no Hotels near my studio? Has RED not thought of that? Hmmm?



:D

[Dominic Jones]

Hi,

As you will need to change mounts, I think you would be well advised to!

The tolerance is idealy +/- 2 microns(Panavision spec) you would be lucky to achieve +/- 5 microns (Arri spec) in your hotel room.

Stephen
Sorry Stephen, could you elaborate on this?

What would be the difference in accuracy between changing a lens mount in a different environment - would that not be set by the accuracy of the engineering process, or am I missing something?

Cheers!

[Finner]

The problem with changing mounts would be dust. Also having the front end of your camera open on set for the amount of time it will take to change a mount is something I would not want to do. Set can get crazy and the risk of dust or other things is not worth it in my opinion. Change the mount in your contoled: studio, shop, house, hotel room or very clean camera truck. Some people have argued this point before that the feel they can change the mount anywhere. I have decided not to argue that point anymore. The way I look at it if people want to chance it fine. It may work fine for a while but sooner or later they will ge burned with a bunch of useless footage and it's things like that that can really have an impact on you career. I have watched as Panavision techs work 15-30 minutes to shim and set a camera mount. It is not a simple process and not something to be taken lightly.

[Stephen Williams]

Sorry Stephen, could you elaborate on this?

What would be the difference in accuracy between changing a lens mount in a different environment - would that not be set by the accuracy of the engineering process, or am I missing something?

Cheers!

Hi,

As Finner says, dust & dirt. FWIW how tight you make the screws can have an effect.

It's really for camera technicians only, but I don't think that is what people want to hear.

[Stephen Williams]

What if there are no Hotels near my studio? Has RED not thought of that? Hmmm?



:D

Hi,

Yes the have, its called PL mount.

Stephen

[Emanuel A.]

Hi,

As you will need to change mounts, I think you would be well advised to!

The tolerance is idealy +/- 2 microns(Panavision spec) you would be lucky to achieve +/- 5 microns (Arri spec) in your hotel room.

StephenStephen I fully agree with the first part of your statement. On the second one, of course I can't answer more than your knowledge and experience does but... :D


Hi,

As Finner says, dust & dirt. FWIW how tight you make the screws can have an effect.

It's really for camera technicians only, but I don't think that is what people want to hear.Otherwise, well, this was already discussed over dvxuser.com...

(and as I already posted)
Jim :) also posted on subject guaranteeing it would/will be...:

«Very easy. The Trick is to have the base to intermediate mount distance set at the factory and leave enough room for all possible mounts. More details pretty soon.

jim»

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=690531&postcount=5


Hi,

Yes the have, its called PL mount.

StephenAs you already said: it's not what people want to hear! Let's hope Jim is right!

[Brook Willard]

AFAIK, the process only involves 8 screws. It could be something that could take place in a film changing bag.

[Emanuel A.]

Maybe not so much. Jim said this is not finished, yet.

[Stephen Williams]

AFAIK, the process only involves 8 screws. It could be something that could take place in a film changing bag.

Hi Brook,

Without a sharpmax or autocollimator you will have no idea if it is in spec or not!

If you are using Nikon lenses, it is not important as they are not accurately collimated in the first place. Using PL mounted lenses and pulling focus wide open is another matter alltogether.

The first time you will realise you have a problem is when you project, it won't be that obvious on a monitor.

FWIW I would not rent a camera from a private person who swops lens mounts himself, however easy it may be to do!

Stephen

[Finner]

AFAIK, the process only involves 8 screws. It could be something that could take place in a film changing bag.


Sure you could change it in a film bag, why not pull the sensor and clean it with windex while you are in there! lol

Sorry Brook, I think you make a lot of great points but pulling apart the front end of the camera in dark bag probably is not one of the best ideas you have had.

I have been lucky enough to of worked with most of the film and HD cameras out there. I feel I have a fairly decent amount of experience with camera mounts and the one thing I can say without any doubt is that changing a lens mount is not something to be taken lightly. Stephen and I do not throw red flags out there every time this is brought up because we want to dampen the spirits of everyone we are just trying to express what a big problem could come about if it is not done 100% perfectly.

I have seen many mounts changed before by full time all they do is fix cameras tech's and it is a very presise slow process. When Jim says it will be "easy" what I take that to mean is we as users should be able to change it ourselves if we are very careful. If the RED camera gives us the users the ability to change the mount in a clean controled environment like a shop, hotel room or clean camera truck in less then 30 minutes that will be so much more "easy" then any other camera on the market right now.

Changeing a mount is a big big deal.

[Emanuel A.]

Actually, we have what [LINK (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=771181#post771181[/url)] Jarred and Jim themselves posted:

«collimnation is not needed everytime you change the mount... a collimnator is just used to adjust your back-focus if something gets knocked out of alignment.»

Succeeding by Jim:

«... which will be pretty hard to do the way this is designed.

Jim»

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=771205&postcount=81

«It is completely different... and easier. Things change pretty quickly around here... If anyone is curious, the design process we use is pretty unique. Someday I'll let someone else write a book. :-)

Jim»

[Stephen Williams]

Actually, we have what

«collimnation is not needed everytime you change the mount... a collimnator is just used to adjust your back-focus if something gets knocked out of alignment.»


Hi Emanuel,

With all due respect I don't agree with that statement. With a 35mm lens at F5.6 it is unimportant, but an 18mm @1.3 is a different story.

In any case how would you know after changing the mount that it had not been knocked out of alignment by 1 apec of dust?

Stephen

[Emanuel A.]

Stephen,

As I already said: you're the experts...

My point is: maybe Jim had changed something on the way you're used to -- this is a new camera design, after all! So, let's hope Jim is right!

[Finner]

My point is: maybe Jim had changed something on the way you're used to -- this is a new camera design, after all! So, let's hope Jim is right!


Unless Jim is able to change dust being on Earth ( I am sure their are some "FANBOY'S" ready to say he can) then I see no way of changing a mount being something that you would not have to be very careful with.

Take note that I am not saying that swapping mounts will not be able to be done by us users. I just feel very strongly that you will have to be very careful when doing it.

As for my camera it will ship with a PL mount and I doubt very highly that I will ever swap it with another mount.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Go back to DSLR experience and the latest anti-dust system implementation in the Sony Alpha camera:
"One of the more interesting features of the camera is the new anti-dust system for the image sensor. Many long time DSLR users know the problem - sensor dust. When changing lenses it is inevitable that a minor degree of dust enters...find its way to the sensor filter surface. The dust will show up as faint blobs in images which naturally accumulate over time and it´s an annoying task to remove these traces via an imaging application. Cleaning the sensor yourself is possible but it´s not exactly a fun aspect to do so and there´ll be always some images affected before you become aware of the problem. In order to provide some protection Sony implemented two improvements - a special anti-static coating applied to the low-pass filter in front of the sensor and a mechanism to shake off dust by taking advantage of the image stabilizer. This is similar to Olympus´ well-proven anti-dust system but the shake frequency isn´t quite as high thus less efficient. Unlike Olympus the Alpha activates the anti-dust shaker when switching off the camera. You may debate whether this is smart or not but this way it has no negative side-effect on the startup time of the camera."
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/dslr/sony_alpha_100/index_sony.html

Also brand new Canon 400D has got built-in anti-dust system.

Sooner or later the RED should get its own built-in anti-dust system(??!)

[chuck colburn]

Go back to DSLR experience and the latest anti-dust system implementation in the Sony Alpha camera:
"One of the more interesting features of the camera is the new anti-dust system for the image sensor. Many long time DSLR users know the problem - sensor dust. When changing lenses it is inevitable that a minor degree of dust enters...find its way to the sensor filter surface. The dust will show up as faint blobs in images which naturally accumulate over time and it´s an annoying task to remove these traces via an imaging application. Cleaning the sensor yourself is possible but it´s not exactly a fun aspect to do so and there´ll be always some images affected before you become aware of the problem. In order to provide some protection Sony implemented two improvements - a special anti-static coating applied to the low-pass filter in front of the sensor and a mechanism to shake off dust by taking advantage of the image stabilizer. This is similar to Olympus´ well-proven anti-dust system but the shake frequency isn´t quite as high thus less efficient. Unlike Olympus the Alpha activates the anti-dust shaker when switching off the camera. You may debate whether this is smart or not but this way it has no negative side-effect on the startup time of the camera."
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/dslr/sony_alpha_100/index_sony.html

Also brand new Canon 400D has got built-in anti-dust system.

Sooner or later the RED should get its own built-in anti-dust system(??!)

That would be spiffy! In the mean time check the gate.

[Emanuel A.]

Unless Jim is able to change dust being on Earth ( I am sure their are some "FANBOY'S" ready to say he can) then I see no way of changing a mount being something that you would not have to be very careful with.

Take note that I am not saying that swapping mounts will not be able to be done by us users. I just feel very strongly that you will have to be very careful when doing it.

As for my camera it will ship with a PL mount and I doubt very highly that I will ever swap it with another mount.

I understand your concerns and as matter of fact we should be grateful for your wise words anyway. Also 'cause there are some other purchases where we must well know what expects us.

As you well know, I'm buying a stabilizer for example. Where the weight has a relevant role to deal with. Going with the Flyer, for instance, doesn't give enough or comfortable space to think on a PL zoom lens (even so far so compact the RED zoom will be). The same will be possible to equate on the 300mm purchase now when the zoom won't be available so soon as late 2007 and the majority will use SLR lenses until then.

Having such easy trick can solve a lot of hassles. I'd say this will be a business itself. I'm sure Jim knows it and taking his own words I'd add he seems very sure of the difficulties and how to deal with. For the RED business sakes. Ours and concerning the RED revenue(s), as well.

[Brook Willard]

My point was to comment on the simplicity of the change. It has been discussed in the past that there may be something "different" about the mount changing - something that doesn't require the kind of infinitely calibrated clean-room experience we're all used to. While I have not personally swapped lens mounts, I have witnessed the process firsthand and know the level of precision required. Prior discussion on the subject has made it seem as though it will be a job for any capable AC on location - not for a bunny in a clean room. ;)

I guess we'll see with time.

[Stephen Williams]

Prior discussion on the subject has made it seem as though it will be a job for any capable AC on location - not for a bunny in a clean room. ;)

I guess we'll see with time.

Hi,

Any capable AC on location with a depth gauge and training could change a film camera mount on location. However the depth gauge could damage the sensor on any digital camera.

When I use a Viper with digiprimes I use a sharpmax to check backfocus.

Stephen

[Finner]

As you well know, I'm buying a stabilizer for example. Where the weight has a relevant role to deal with. Going with the Flyer, for instance, doesn't give enough or comfortable space to think on a PL zoom lens (even so far so compact the RED zoom will be). The same will be possible to equate on the 300mm purchase now when the zoom won't be available so soon as late 2007 and the majority will use SLR lenses until then.


I would not be too worid about swapping mounts being that tough for the application you are planning. Where the problem comes in is some people had talked in the past of how they would shoot one shot with a ziess pl mount and then move into the close up with a mount change and a nikon and then a little later in the day get an adapter for a cannon (which this kind of thought is crazy because you would get such unmatched lens looks that your project would look like crap.)

Mainly what I am trying to state is that you make sure you take changing a mount very very seriously and don't tell producers or directors that changing the mount is a simple 2 minute thing. If you put the pressure of a fast on set mount change on yourself or your focus puller sooner or later you will have big problems. I have found in this bussiness if you tell directors or producers that something is a big technical job that has to be done very presisely they will get off your back and give you the time to do it right and if you or your assistant gets it done faster you look like a hero. If you say it is a quick easy job and you take even a little longer time then you tell them they will be on your back non-stop and the chance of making a mistake becomes that much greater. Then if a mistake is made by rushing it and the mistake is found later the next day then more then likely they will NEVER hire you again (Yes its harsh but it's how this bussiness seems to work).

I would say "Do not take changing mounts lightly and anyone who tells you to not worry about it and that you can rush is giving you very bad advice. For the sake of your carreer everytime you do a mount swap make sure you take the time to do everything in your power to do it very cautiously."

[Emanuel A.]

I follow your wise advices.

As Brook said: the time will tell. And Jim as well! :) We are waiting for his input. I mean from the RED delivery and not exactly only promises. But as Alexander would say: In RED we trust! ;)

The point is: with RED there will be a real practice for the media convergence. And reading these boards, it's easy to see how these times are changing. Any PhD researcher on a film history and aesthetics studies basis might easily guess what we can find over here: different levels of moviemaking and film work.

For example, im my case, I'll be RED shooter but director for sure and as well (without mention the screenwriting and production jobs where I've been working since I finished the law school :confused: :D, my Master in Media Management, my both degrees in editing and directing). As we can see, the multivalency will be the field of many RED shooters (even if not for all).

[Finner]

Hi Emanuel

After you sent me the PM about looking in to buying a steady-cam and seeing your other points I am a little confused. It seems like you are saying that you are interested in directing, editing, DOP and steady cam work as well. I just thought I would mention a few things I have noticed. To be good at everything you mention would be very hard. I currently work as a Director/shooter and splitting thoughts to do a good job at both is a real challenge. I have met a lot of people who do multiple jobs but your choices are very spread out. In fact I personally have never even met a single Steady-cam/DOP guy. The reason for this I think is because being a really good Steady guy takes a lot of work and practice. It is clear to see that you have quite a passion for filmaking but I think you should consider getting more focused before buying a steady-cam. I think you will regret buying a bunch of different specialty job film equipment. Take some time and decide what job you really want to do and focus in on that area. You will be much more successful if you have a focused plan then by trying to do everything.

Some steady-cam guys may be able to add some insight further into this.

[Mike the beginner]

Really good points brought up in this thread :)

Here's my take on it. The main reason (i think) red has given us the opportunity to use different mounts is simply because of the number of people that already own various lenses that are not PL mount. Choice is good right!

It also allows the use of a cheaper set up for those on a tight budget, but have the necessary skills to utilise the cheap still lenses.

It is becoming clear now that the additional mounts will not be similar to the usual mounts that some of us expected ie, a simple flange plate with screws! Exactly what that entails no one but red knows? I happent to think that because of this the mounts will obviously be more expensive than the usual prices for a cheap mount (whatever that is?). I think the idea is to change the mounts when you change the type of production you are doing rather than changing from say nikon mount/lens to PL mount lens etc.

That does not mean you cannot change the mount whenever you like but as stated it will not be entirely risk free.

The more i learn the more i am being swayed strongly to sticking to the PL mount system that comes with the camera. Yes the expense of using PL Cine lenses are considerable, but for my part i have a massive learning curve. Plenty of practice with a proper cine lens i hope will advance my learning curve faster than messing about with cheap still lenses that require even greater skill to track focus with than cine lenses.

My only concern is whether the value of traditional 35mm cine lenses will in fact hold their value? All the evidence says they do and will hold their value long after you have purchased them. However we all know from experience that when something becomes available to a much wider group of people those at the top simply move the goalposts. Whats the+ chances of 70mm lenses becoming the new cine 35mm lens of choice for the big boys?

Michael

[Emanuel A.]

Yes Finner you are a little confused! :) I didn't say I would/will be a steadicam operator! (Nevertheless, I'll play with that :o, be sure of that! Who knows if afterwards I'll do a change of career?... :D)

I said: the polyvalence/multivalency is/will be an imperative for many RED buyers.

In my case, I'll be shooter/director, aside the screenwriting task and my work as producer.

I've been working as lecturer/teacher/instructor etc where I've been in touch with dozens of professionals from all the fields...and learned with them.

I have my own moviemaking business, several (distinctive) companies (or structures) where I'm taking the verticalization route (for sure, you can't know what my work is). I just need to know how each department works where I have my money invested.

In a regular basis we own all the gear with which we're used to work. Even when we hire people from outside as always happens when we need. But we prefer to care of our training policy regarding any personelle. When we invite someone to give instruction here is in order to leave the seed among our staff. Concerning the stabilizer operation, it's a common truth what you said and of course there was and there is no doubts there. Both agree.

My objection is just for the rainbow reason. There are different levels of moviemaking -- that's what I said. My own: art work. And so many methods or ways to get the right place there.

We also work as a (real) cooperative and we are several dozen of professionals crossing different areas of the moviemaking, theatre and other fields to art work related. I hope to have the opportunity to invite you to join one of our workshops in the future as instructor or attendant if you wish. I'm not the typical operator who lives from its gear. The moviemaking is my business (as professional) since 1994, so... But unfortunately, I must play so many keyboards@my_piano... Unfortunately, my dear fellow. However, even not being one-man-show (sometimes it seems so), I wouldn't like to be director (or whatever) in hollywood -- major reason: aesthetical freedom, or more correctly, 'cause both reasons (freedom and aesthetics).

[Finner]

Sounds like you have found a job you really love. I understand where you are comming from now.

By the way do you have a website for your co-op. I would be interested in looking at it.

[Emanuel A.]

Are you sure?

As I could tell you, we are working in the indie filmmaking realm. We are a few but yes, I am the man in charge:

Since I finished the 5-years degree in Law with specialization in Economics [LINK (http://www.fd.uc.pt/)] [LINK (http://www.uc.pt/en)] plus the postgraduate diploma in Communication Law (Audiovisual, Advertisement, New Technologies and Copyright Law) [LINK (http://www.fd.uc.pt/ijc/disciplinas.php)] and a Master in Audiovisual Management with specialization in Film Production [LINK (http://www.anica.it/)] [LINK (http://www.mediamaster.org/)] where among others I had opportunity to learn with Fernando Ghia [LINK (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0315721/)], Christopher Vogler (former executive at Disney and screenwriting guru) or Claudio di Persia (Sony Pictures Entertainment/Columbia TriStar VP/General Manager, AXN/Sony TV channel founder, former Telemundo Network VP, etc), I've been prepping the future -- that's for sure! But I am a young fellow, yet.

I was Associate Producer working for the national portuguese state TV [LINK (http://ww1.rtp.pt/wportal/grupo/)] (succeeding my previous TV work) and I prepared the fund raising (to the portuguese film institute [LINK (http://www.ica-ip.pt/Default.aspx)]) of «I Cento Passi» [LINK (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238891/)] -- triple awarded @Venice Film Festival including Best Screenplay.

Meanwhile, I finished in Filmmaking a BFA in Film Editing and a MFA in Film Directing [LINK (http://www.estc.ipl.pt/cinema/english/cinema.html)] general links: [LINK (http://www.estc.ipl.pt/escola/english/index_en.html)] [LINK (http://www.ipl.pt/)] where I could do part of my education with the Spielberg's E.T. editor Carol Littleton [LINK (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0514746/)] (as far as my own native editing background is concerned) or with her husband, the well known hollywood DP John Bailey [LINK (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0007037/)] or my fellow countryman Eduardo Serra [LINK (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0785381/)] (strictly concerning the cinematography education field) among others even beyond the film school, such as Krzysztof Kieślowski's editor Jacques Witta for example. As well, studies in Film History and Aesthetics a few years before during my law graduation in the local University [LINK (http://www.uc.pt/fluc/artisticos/apresentacao/artes_na_uc/)] (in portuguese language).

As instructor, I've had contact with the education and training areas, as for instance, into two higher education institutions where, as lecturer or professor at the media department [LINK (http://www.porto.ucp.pt/site/custom/template/ucptplfachome.asp?sspageid=1089&lang=1)] [LINK (http://artes.ucp.pt/en/)] [LINK (http://www.ipc.pt/#)] [LINK (http://www.esec.pt/pagina/gri/pagina.php?id=131&l=en)] I began my teaching career on filmmaking subjects beyond the movie business.

During these years, they have been several the entities which I had contact ex. Vila do Conde International Short Film Festival [LINK (http://festival.curtas.pt/home-en/)] where I began in Portugal or in Spain [LINK (http://www.guiasociaciones.com/mapa.php?id=8819&mapa=Luis%20Bu%F1uel%20%28Ciudad%20de%20la%20Image n%29,%202,28223,POZUELO%20DE%20ALARCON,MADRID&den=ANEPA%20-%20ASOCIACION%20NACIONAL%20DE%20EMPRESAS%20DE%20PR ODUCCION%20AUDIOVISUAL&ie=latin1)]. Or still the professionals with who I have been working with. Carlos da Silva (ex-director of Cannes MIPTV and former collaborator of Luchino Visconti, Claude Lelouch, Jean Gabin, Gérard Depardieu, Ben Kingsley, George Sluizer, etc) with who I began @ arthouse production as apprentice. Or José Álvaro Morais, one of the best promises of the european cinema -- the future Manoel de Oliveira for my fellow countrymen and women, missed unfortunately.

These days? We are developing an investement in the field of the digital cinema. Personally, I am working at the consulting area where beyond the fundraising sector, I have been invited and contacted for some professionals of this business, pursuing local opportunities at the European Union's level and international cooperation (or joint ventures), as for example, during the last edition of the Lisbon Village Festival [LINK (http://www.festivalfocus.org/festival_view.php?uid=278)] where with Antonio Bottiglieri, director of the italian national state TV RAI's [LINK (http://www.rai.it/)] and its technical research department, under request and insistence of the italian side, I could offer my humble contribution to the beginning of the negotiations for the european Qube's expansion [LINK (http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=298)] [LINK (http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=32452)] along 2006.

Here is a sum-up of the sum-up related to what already happened 'cause on my future projects I don't confess not even to the walls of my office. ;-)

[Alex Boothby]

It is odd timing that in the last couple of weeks I had begun to shy away from the idea of using the forthcoming Nikon lens mount for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread. I have a Red zoom reservation and would like to avoid time consuming and technically daunting lens changes.

Unfortunately I am on a limited budget and am looking for affordable PL lens solutions.

Dumb Question - PLEASE HELP: would something like these refurbished Nikon and Canon primes work with RED's PL mount?

http://www.rplens.com/products.htm

At the bottom of the page they sell an adaptor for mounting these Nikon and Canon primes to a P+S Technik mount. Could I simply purchase a Nikon or Canon to PL adaptor instead of changing the physical mount? Could I then change lenses fast and avoid the back focus and alignment issues discussed above. Finner? Stephen? Anyone?

[Finner]

Sorry

I don't know anything about thes lenses or if there are adapters to make them work? The site looks pretty informative so if you e-mail them they probably can give you some answers. If you get some info on them throw it up on this thread.

Also I don't think setting up your camera with a NIKON mount would be that bad a THING. I just don't think it is something that a person should adopt and do often. But if you set up your RED to run nikon and change to pl every so often I would think you would run in to very little problems.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Go back to DSLR experience and the latest anti-dust system implementation in the Sony Alpha camera:
"One of the more interesting features of the camera is the new anti-dust system for the image sensor. Many long time DSLR users know the problem - sensor dust. When changing lenses it is inevitable that a minor degree of dust enters...find its way to the sensor filter surface. The dust will show up as faint blobs in images which naturally accumulate over time and it´s an annoying task to remove these traces via an imaging application. Cleaning the sensor yourself is possible but it´s not exactly a fun aspect to do so and there´ll be always some images affected before you become aware of the problem. In order to provide some protection Sony implemented two improvements - a special anti-static coating applied to the low-pass filter in front of the sensor and a mechanism to shake off dust by taking advantage of the image stabilizer. This is similar to Olympus´ well-proven anti-dust system but the shake frequency isn´t quite as high thus less efficient. Unlike Olympus the Alpha activates the anti-dust shaker when switching off the camera. You may debate whether this is smart or not but this way it has no negative side-effect on the startup time of the camera."
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/dslr/sony_alpha_100/index_sony.html

Also brand new Canon 400D has got built-in anti-dust system.

Sooner or later the RED should get its own built-in anti-dust system(??!)

Speaking of the RED ONE dust issues....have a look at the picture below

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/RGB_56_RED_dust.jpg

The original picture and more like this you can find at

http://www.cinematography.net/Red/GreenscreenExposureSeries/RGB_56.tif

I don't know. I am a bit confused. What you think?

[Alex Boothby]

Sorry

I don't know anything about thes lenses or if there are adapters to make them work? The site looks pretty informative so if you e-mail them they probably can give you some answers. If you get some info on them throw it up on this thread.

Thanks Finner. But just to clarify - in general - do Nikon to PL Adaptors exist and would they be a fast a safe alternative to replacing the actual mount (ie. always keep the PL mount on RED , but just use quality adaptors to attach your Nikons.) I suspect the answer is yes, but I'm far from adequately informed. :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't know. I am a bit confused. What you think?

I saw that too and in a couple other of the greenscreen tests. Splotches in the greenscreen color or lighting, obscured by DOF? Dirt on the lens? Dust? Lens fungus? I played with that same picture the other day and it keyed cleanly, but it's something to ponder -- especially with the topic of discussion here.

I plan to use my Nikkor lenses with RED and will be getting the Nikon mount. But I don't expect to change mounts often at all. Only on the rare occasion I decide to rent better glass for a project. And I will do that whole project with rented glass and the PL mount. At some point I hope to switch over to all PL mount hardware, but have to use what's available/affordable to get going, eh?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks Finner. But just to clarify - in general - do Nikon to PL Adaptors exist and would they be a fast a safe alternative to replacing the actual mount (ie. always keep the PL mount on RED , but just use quality adaptors to attach your Nikons.) I suspect the answer is yes, but I'm far from adequately informed. :)

I know I'm kinda jumping in here, and I have no idea if Nikon to PL adapters exist... But it seems to me that it wouldn't work well, if at all. The distance from the lens base or flange for a Nikon mount is like 46mm or something and for PL mount it's like 52mm. My numbers may be wrong, but I know they're different. If you already figure that the distance on a PL mount is wrong for a Nikon lens, then adding an adapter would make the distance even greater and more incorrect, wouldn't it? So an adapter may let you use the lens, but you would be getting entirely different focal lengths and different coverage of the sensor from what you would expect.

[Finner]

Boothba I have never seen a nikon mount adapter that will fit on a PL mount. I have never looked for one but I highly doubt there is one??????

This DUST on the sensor thing is very interesting. It looks like it may have to be something that is tested when RED prototypes come out. I would be interested seeing how RED reacts to a slightly dusty exterior area for one day of production shooting?

[Sanjin Jukic]

I am just repeating the good old lessons about a dust cleaning sensor

Understanding Digital SLR Sensor Cleaning
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/sensor-cleaning.shtml
Cleaning DSLRs - the Dust Fight
http://www.burren.cx/photo/dslr_cleaning.html
Cleaning the CMOS Sensor...
http://photo.net/equipment/digital/sensorcleaning/
Dust Busters!
How to clean dust off of your DSLR's sensor without ruining it (hopefully!)
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=academy&article=073106

...etc...

[Alex Boothby]

Thanks Finner & AppliedVisual

I'll try calling RPlens and see if they have a solution. Their rehoused Nikons and Canons seem to be marketed directly to the HDV / P+S Technik crowd (I think Red will soon be a bigger crowd, and much more in need of quality glass). I'll report back with any info.

[Emanuel A.]

The distance from the lens base or flange for a Nikon mount is like 46mm or something and for PL mount it's like 52mm.Jim has been saying: «the Trick is to have the base to intermediate mount distance set at the factory and leave enough room for all possible mounts».

[Emanuel A.]

This DUST on the sensor thing is very interesting. It looks like it may have to be something that is tested when RED prototypes come out. I would be interested seeing how RED reacts to a slightly dusty exterior area for one day of production shooting?I wouldn't say the dust problem on the sensor thing could be very interesting... :D but your realistic concern is right, fully right. The things on the paper don't work in the same way than the field where the things happen for real (and not from where our anxieties are coming from) -- we'll hope for news instead leaving any room in any way other than as spreading potential FUD. But for sure, there will be some questions we need to know answered. As it was already posted, there are other options to make (includes budgeting) directly related.

[Roberto B]

c'mon agnostic guys :p loooooooool let the dust settle down..

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Well, I´m starting to doubt if ordering the 300mm is making sense.

For my own projects I´ll use Nikkor´s and if getting out the PL mount 300mm is a risky and time consuming business I maybe have to rethink.

[Finner]

Personally I am not sure how well the red 300 will match the nikons anyway. You are always best to stick with a matching set of lenses.

[Brook Willard]

[edit: thanks, guys]

[Alex Boothby]

you see finner.. fine work there.. with your clever inputs, red will lose money..

Dude... that's crazy on so many levels. For instance this discussion has led me to rethink the Nikon approach in favor of buying more PL primes from RED. Perhaps Jim will read Josch's post and in a fit of panic rush to release a very affordable set of RED primes! :D

Please don't scold posters for sharing legitimate information.

[Roberto B]

Dude... that's crazy on so many levels. For instance this discussion has led me to rethink the Nikon approach in favor of buying more PL primes from RED. Perhaps Jim will read Josch's post and in a fit of panic rush to release a very affordable set of RED primes! :D

meantime, others will let down the slr/pl mount alternate..

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

Good News a PL to Nikon does exist!
Bad News you can only work in macro.

Stephen

[Roberto B]

You don't sell your thoughts because nobody would buy them, there not worth anything. LOL


right.. i don't sell my thoughts.. period


for respect to booth.. brook.. and many others.. like all the people who are really holding one or more red reservations.. red one.. red lenses and so on.. i promise.. i'll be silent.. they worth.. we here worth..


but don't forget.. the josch post.. that came after yours not mine.. don't forget.. because it won't possible to deny.

[Roberto B]

Hi,

Good News a PL to Nikon does exist!
Bad News you can only work in macro.

Stephen

evil boy.. :) (i couldn't resist.. eheheh) but this guy is cool even if he plays.. well.. where he plays.. lol

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Besides, to anybody with a Lebowski avatar sainthood should be given automatically. :-))

And I´m quite sure Jim and RED will survive my 300mm doubts. Already I´m thinking about the zoom.......

[Sanjin Jukic]

Dusty , dusty, dusty, documentaries...
Sand Storm in Iraq: April 26, 2005
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/stu/iraq/sandstorm.htm

[Alex Boothby]

Please don't shoot in Iraq with the RedRail...
...or the Red gun....

Dust problem solved.

[Alex Boothby]

Hi,

Good News a PL to Nikon does exist!
Bad News you can only work in macro.

Stephen

Is that true? Or has the dementia of this thread affected even Stephen? :confused:

[Roberto B]

Besides, to anybody with a Lebowski avatar sainthood should be given automatically. :-))

his own sake
(and that 'worth quote' sake too..)
loooooooooooool


And I´m quite sure Jim and RED will survive my 300mm doubts. Already I´m thinking about the zoom.......

what do you mean?.. that particular zoom will rock.. the best deal for the buck.. cooke will too.. in the case of bucks to buy.. oh, sorry.. i mean, to rent.. :D

[Roberto B]

Is that true? Or has the dementia of this thread affected even Stephen? :confused:

hi boothba,

it's true man..

stephen
(in disguise)

[Emanuel A.]

hi (...)

stephen
(in disguise)

LOL

I'm sorry my good fellows. I'd like to be silent as well. But that one made me laugh 'till tears...

Stephen and Finner are great people posting here. And this forum rocks, definitely. United Colors of RED.

[Roberto B]

;)

:)

[Alex Boothby]

hi boothba,

stephen
(in disguise)

Okay now I'm laughing. I think you found your new signature. :D

[Roberto B]

Okay now I'm laughing. I think you found your new signature. :D

done..

[Stephen Williams]

Is that true? Or has the dementia of this thread affected even Stephen? :confused:

Hi,

It is true, possibly one could be designed with an optical element to change the FFL, but at what cost in $ & quality.

Stephen (real one)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jim has been saying: «the Trick is to have the base to intermediate mount distance set at the factory and leave enough room for all possible mounts».

And that's why there will be interchangeable mounts. I just don't see a PL to Nikon (or vice versa) being practical. The only way to make it work with an adapter, is that adapter would need several optical elements of its own to compensate for the different flange depth and it would add more length to the lens setup on the front of the camera, become more unweildy and the added elements would make your optics another stop or so slower. And just one more unit to collect dirt, fingerprints, dust, etc.. in the middle.

But just to reiterate what seems to be the best solution... Pick a mount and stick with it.

[chuck colburn]

I know I'm kinda jumping in here, and I have no idea if Nikon to PL adapters exist... But it seems to me that it wouldn't work well, if at all. The distance from the lens base or flange for a Nikon mount is like 46mm or something and for PL mount it's like 52mm. My numbers may be wrong, but I know they're different. If you already figure that the distance on a PL mount is wrong for a Nikon lens, then adding an adapter would make the distance even greater and more incorrect, wouldn't it? So an adapter may let you use the lens, but you would be getting entirely different focal lengths and different coverage of the sensor from what you would expect.

Good morning all,

Jeff is right except for the part about getting different focal lengths. Emanuel is right about having as shallow of a front base plate as possible to accept different mounts. It worked for Aaton.

Chuck

[Stephen Williams]

Hi All,

What I don't understand why you would need an intermediate adapter, why not just change the front of the camera with whatever mount at the right depth. Sometimes keeping it simple could work best.

Stephen

[Emanuel A.]

Stephen, as you know it's 'cause the distances and their differences, as well to try to solve the quick interchangeability need for people who would like to use lenses from different mounts. The majority I think.

Hey, I said «would like to use» not «will use» -- that answer only the RED team can gives us.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Good morning all,

Jeff is right except for the part about getting different focal lengths. Emanuel is right about having as shallow of a front base plate as possible to accept different mounts. It worked for Aaton.

Well, kinda off... Have to put two of my posts together and then struggle with my quickly-typed mess of poor grammar. With an *adapter* the focal lengths would be off unless the adapter was a sophisticated piece of glass to refocus and align the image to the proper area on the sensor. with an *interchangeable mount* this is not an issue as the lenses would be mounted at the proper distance. Two different things... Not sure why someone would want an *adapter*, and if it would even be possible (read: economical) to make a proper PL to Nikon *adapter*. The Nikon *mount* for RED is a no-brainer and I'll be ordering one with mine so I can use my Nikkor lenses. While an *adapter* would be more convenient and much easier to deal with in the field, that's not going to happen.

[Peter Sensor]

I carry three different mounts with my P+S Technik mini 35, PL;Nikon F;Canon FD. I'm hopefull that RED will make the change as easy as P+S .
Peter at RP LENS.COM

[Roberto B]

Stephen (real one)http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-033.gif

[Shawn Nelson]

I carry three different mounts with my P+S Technik mini 35, PL;Nikon F;Canon FD. I'm hopefull that RED will make the change as easy as P+S .
Peter at RP LENS.COM

Hmm, well Peter hasn't logged on in months. Does anyone else know how the P&S deals with collimation?

[tj williams]

Canon FD later??? how much later... later than Dec????