PL Mount 11-16mm f2.8 Prototype, Manual Iris

[Matt Uhry]

Prototype of PL Remounted Tokina 11-16 f2.8, Manual Iris.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/10_1236919197.jpg

The Good News:
The lens is well built, holds focus over it's 1.4x zoom range
very little breathing, very little image shift when racked.
Sharp, Low distortion, good field illumination, good flare resistance.

The Not Exactly Good but not too bad:
The modified Iris change very fast - not much rotation. It would be quite expensive and complicated to fix this. Not really enough space to mark every stop... It's not a big problem for the Red, you can easily get it exactly to the stop you desire. (*** UPDATE- DR. LENS HAS FIGURED THE IRIS OUT ***)

Nikon Focus direction ( backwards from most other lenses )

It's up at Chez Duclos getting it's gears and then will be anodized black.

It might be possible to make more of them. Price is TBD, still trying to figure it out, should be below $3,250. It could go down substantially with larger quantities.

How much interest is there in this ? It's probably going to be a one shot deal so if you're interested this is the chance.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If the price is right, I'm definitely interested. I'm not sure just what the right price would be, I would have to think on that a bit. But ~$3K doesn't seem too out of line, depending on the quality of conversion. I would think it could definitely drop quite a bit from there if there were a dozen orders or more.

Edit> Who is doing the PL conversion?

[Shawn Nelson]

This sounds awesome!

Pardon my ignorance, but I just looked up this lens and new it goes for $569. Does it really cost over $2500 just to hack off the back, put a PL mount on it and a few gears?

If it was down in the $1500 range I'd be very interested.

[Perry Ho]

great job Matt, I got the same lens, but can't find the tech engineer to fix it.

[Nick Gardner]

Does it really cost over $2500 just to hack off the back, put a PL mount on it and a few gears?


Yes. first of all, you need many thousands of dollars worth of tools to do the work, and second there is a bunch of time involved. Really tight tolerance machining is an art (also the time to learn the skill). CNC machines don't compensate for cutter deflection or wear, so It really is a fit by hand type of operation. There are machines that can hit these tolerances, but they are stupid expensive. Plus, there is the whole if you fuck up even just a little, start over factor. If you take off an extra thousandth of an inch there is no putting it back on. Start over.

Nick

[Matt Uhry]

Pardon my ignorance, but I just looked up this lens and new it goes for $569. Does it really cost over $2500 just to hack off the back, put a PL mount on it and a few gears?

If it was down in the $1500 range I'd be very interested.

Go for it Shawn ! Get a hacksaw ! There is no chance whatsoever of it being sold for that price.

The people that I'm hoping to get involved, Machinists, Designers and Dr. Lens are skilled and experienced, have business costs, want to make a fair wage. They also all have plenty of other projects to do if not given a suitable incentive to work on this one.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Shawn Nelson]

Go for it Shawn ! Get a hacksaw ! There is no chance whatsoever of it being sold for that price.

The people that I'm hoping to get involved, Machinists, Designers and Dr. Lens are skilled and experienced, have business costs, want to make a fair wage. They also all have plenty of other projects to do if not given a suitable incentive to work on this one.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

hey, i said 'pardon my ignorance' there.

[Vico Martin]

Wow, looks amazing!

Please post shoots with it, some motion and some stills. :whistling:

Congrats for the job!

[martinnoweck]

wow, definitely interested!

after all that "too expensive, not possible, why would you want that ..." this is very inspiring.

congrats - regards,
martin

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

I would be interested.

Best
Jens Jakob Thorsen DFF
Denmark

[Evin Grant]

count me in.

[Priit Poldmaa]

Also interested.

Priit

[Sanjin Jukic]

Very interesting.

I could do almost the the same with Tokina 11-16 Nikon G version using

Nikon G to Canon EF adaptor from 16:9 (http://www.16-9.net/nikon_g/)

either on Birger, Alesniak or IMS (best option) mounts.

Manual iris guaranteed, no PL mount but... have another better options.

"For those who find the concept of rotating the lens in its adaptor too unconenventional,
the Lever-Operated version locks the lens and adaptor into fixed positions and actuates the diaphragm via
a control ring installed inside the adaptor. A control switch mounted on the outside perimeter of the adaptor
permits any aperture to be selected."

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/NikonGtoEOSadapter1.jpg

[Douglas Underdahl]

Hey Matt -

Fantastic work!!

Need a partner in making these up? I think I can offer a 303 stainless version.

[Roberto B]

This sounds awesome!

Pardon my ignorance, but I just looked up this lens and new it goes for $569. Does it really cost over $2500 just to hack off the back, put a PL mount on it and a few gears?

If it was down in the $1500 range I'd be very interested.well said.

[Jeff Kieffer]

Prototype of PL Remounted Tokina 11-16 f2.8, Manual Iris.

It's up at Chez Duclos getting it's gears and then will be anodized black.

How much interest is there in this ? It's probably going to be a one shot deal so if you're interested this is the chance.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Hi,

this one is very interesting! Maybe, you could put up some pics of the lens once it's done, and have Duclos make an official offer?

Please make a small review once you tested it.:shifty:

Thank you,

Jeff

[Rudi Herbert]

I'm all in

[Matthew Duclos]

PDoes it really cost over $2500 just to hack off the back, put a PL mount on it and a few gears?

Shawn, I've spent many hours finding a swiss made hack saw and taking classes to learn the proper technique when hacking lenses with a saw.
It's taken be years to become efficient with a hack saw.
It used to be cheaper back in the day when everyone was using butcher knives, but it was sloppy and took a lot longer.
Now that we have access to high quality saws, we can properly hack lenses apart and slap mounts on them.
(Im just messing with you, ignorance pardoned.)

The lens is in fact here in our shop and is being studied as I type this.
We have several ideas and could likely make this lens quite nice.
Matt, I wish you hadn't shown a picture in it's "Frankenstein stage" lol.
But I guess people wouldn't believe it otherwise. After all, we don't have any renders to shell out. :)

[Ken Willinger]

Count me in!

[Matt Uhry]

Matt, I wish you hadn't shown a picture in it's "Frankenstein stage" lol.
But I guess people wouldn't believe it otherwise. After all, we don't have any renders to shell out. :)


I think I said the picture was a prototype ? That way your final version will look so much prettier.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Tonaci Tran]

Hey Matt,
how soon would this be available if the batch purchase moves forward?

[Paul Hazlett]

do it DO IT already!! sounds like a good solution for me. Do either of you ,Matt or Matthew, know the anle of view from this lens on the the red in 4k?

Grazie!

[Roberto B]

After all, we don't have any renders to shell out. :):) :)

[Matt Uhry]

Matt or Matthew, know the angle of view from this lens on the the red in 4k?

Grazie!

According to isee4k :

90 deg horizontal @11mm in 4K

69 deg horizontal @ 16mm in 4k

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Cristina S]

Low your price, you'll sell it like hotdogs.

[Poi Boy]

I love using this lens, you can't beat it without spending way more money. A pl version would be sweet, I'm in !
Aloha
-A

[Paul Hazlett]

According to isee4k :

90 deg horizontal @11mm in 4K

69 deg horizontal @ 16mm in 4k

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

When do you want the money? and when is it shipping?

[Evin Grant]

Any chance of stainless steel PL ears?

[Matt Uhry]

Any chance of stainless steel PL ears?

That's being considered - upgrading to stainless makes it a bit more expensive and some people think it should be cheaper.

It's all in the hands of Dr Lens.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Matthew Duclos]

It will have a Stainless Steel mount.

[Matthew Duclos]

It's all in the hands of Dr Lens.]

It's funny... My Grandfather is Dr. Duclos.
He owned and operated his own optometry shop on the east coast.
Just a bit of info for you all. ;)

[Paul Hazlett]

Dr. Duclos your wanted in surgery, the patient...a Mr. Tokina, is awaiting his transplant.

[Matthew Duclos]

Haha. The patient is already anesthetized and surgery is underway.
We should have some details for everyone in a week or so.
I'm glad there is some interest in such a specialty lens.
We didn't expect it with all the other hype around new lenses.
It's not like we're building RED primes here.....

[Evin Grant]

It will have a Stainless Steel mount.

Way to work it out Matt:weight_lift:

[Matt Gottshalk]

Definitely interested. LOVE my Tokina 11-16mm on my D300!

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w305/mcgeedigital/UVA_Field_Widest.jpg

[Roberto Lequeux]

subscribed

[Eric Noren]

YO MATT WHAT UP! hook me up with one playboy!

[Eric Noren]

I want one!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Haha. The patient is already anesthetized and surgery is underway.
We should have some details for everyone in a week or so.
I'm glad there is some interest in such a specialty lens.
We didn't expect it with all the other hype around new lenses.
It's not like we're building RED primes here.....

Perfect opportunity for you here with the RED primes still a month or two away (most likely) and the widest initial offering will be 25mm. But I feel like I'm stating the obvious.

[David Birdy]

I'll take one!

[Adrian T.]

Also interested.

[Kujtim Ereqi]

Me too...

[Ben Wolf]

Me too!


BW

[Kujtim Ereqi]

Please bring it as soon as possible.. I'm really tired with mount changing..

[Paul Hazlett]

looks like you guys found a winner!!

[roryhinds]

interested, please keep us posted.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I haven't counted to be sure, but I'd say there's close to 30 potential buyers in this thread. That's a pretty good number, I think. I'm hoping that will have a positive impact on the price.

[Elliot Leboe]

Just curious, is there an advantage to having this lens in PL mount, versus just ordering the lens with Canon mount and using the Birger?

[Alexander Christ]

Interested, please keep me updated.

[Antoine Baumann]

here alos interested.

thanks,
antoine.

[Kujtim Ereqi]

And certainly, with prices going down, more people will join..

[Hans von Sonntag]

Interested.

Hans

[Matt Uhry]

I'm glad there is some interest in such a specialty lens.


I don't see it as a specialty lens, I see it as the wide end extension of my prime lens set. Invaluable for 3k mode too where it's still a really wide lens.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Mike Prevette]

Sign me up!

[paul engstrom]

How do the other Tokinas do? Does a small, lightweight, possibly color matched, relatively inexpensive PL mount set with gears, etc. make sense?

[Evin Grant]

Just curious, is there an advantage to having this lens in PL mount, versus just ordering the lens with Canon mount and using the Birger?

If you have a Birger installed and are using EOS mount lenses then none.
If like many of us you primarily use PL mount cine lenses then the advantage is not having to swap mounts in the middle of a shoot.

[Nils J. Nesse]

How do the other Tokinas do? Does a small, lightweight, possibly color matched, relatively inexpensive PL mount set with gears, etc. make sense?

According to reviews, their 16-50 is good, but not as good as the Sigma 18-50...

If we all agree that the Red 18-50 is (at least) equal or (probably) better than the Sigma, then the Red zoom would make more sense. Unless the rehoused Tokina is a lot cheaper.

... And I guess similar logic applies to the Tokina 50-135.

[Roberto Lequeux]

And with canon you would only get this wide at f3.5, right?

[Matthew Duclos]

I don't see it as a specialty lens, I see it as the wide end extension of my prime lens set. Invaluable for 3k mode too where it's still a really wide lens.

I suppose you're right. With the RED 18mm or the Zeiss ZF 18mm, there is still a need for that extra bit of wide angle.


How do the other Tokinas do? Does a small, lightweight, possibly color matched, relatively inexpensive PL mount set with gears, etc. make sense?

I've not bench tested other Tokina lenses but the Tokina 11-16mm has a surprisingly stable image while zooming and focusing. The mechanics are nice and solid (compared to canon/nikon) and Tokina even thought to include optical adjustments for collimating and axial alignment in the lens design.

As of now, we are working on making the aperture scale a little more usable. Since the lens does not come with an aperture scale or ring, the mechanical movement is rather limited. But no worries, we're working on it.

[Stephen Williams]

If we all agree that the Red 18-50 is (at least) equal or (probably) better than the Sigma,.

Probably equal as thats where it came from!

[Matthew Duclos]

Probably equal as thats where it came from!

hahaha. Thanks Steven.
I didn't want to say that...

[paul engstrom]

I suppose you're right. With the RED 18mm or the Zeiss ZF 18mm, there is still a need for that extra bit of wide angle.



I've not bench tested other Tokina lenses but the Tokina 11-16mm has a surprisingly stable image while zooming and focusing. The mechanics are nice and solid (compared to canon/nikon) and Tokina even thought to include optical adjustments for collimating and axial alignment in the lens design.

As of now, we are working on making the aperture scale a little more usable. Since the lens does not come with an aperture scale or ring, the mechanical movement is rather limited. But no worries, we're working on it.

thanks Mr. Duclos. I'd be curious to see how the other 2 Tokinas would perform on the bench. I'm aware of people's sense that the 16-50 is not as nice as Sigma's--but there appears to be a lot of sample variation and Tokina's next lens up the line is supposed to be pretty good.

Re: sample variation: it always seems a good idea to send slr lenses (and slr bodies!) in for calibration, with quite an improvement coming back. What I'm getting at is that I would expect the PL mount Tokina 11-16 (and other zooms if done) that you're working on to perform better than the brand new, fresh out of the box 11-16 that entered it. And...I'd be curious to see what the other Tokina's would deliver. 3 zooms going from 11 - 150 (that might be color matched?), each light enough for steadicam/handheld, in the ballpark of $10k would be nice. Tokina's main problems in their reviews tend to be focusing and calibration issues--the former not a big deal for our purposes and the latter probably correctable during the PL conversion process.

p

The lack of QC from Tokina, Canon, Nikon, etc. is irritating.

[Mike Prevette]

Seriously Matts,

Who can I send a lens and a check to?

[Matt Uhry]

Seriously Matts,

Who can I send a lens and a check to?

Hang tight for a few more days. Dr Lens is on the job.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Filmarte]

A couple of weeks ago Matt Uhry stopped by my house to show me his Tokina 11-16 2.8 Pl mount lens.

At the beginning I was a little apprehensive about it...a still photo lens on my Red package? No way!!!

When he took it out the case and I saw the PL mount on it I started to change my mind, but it was once we fitted on the camera and shot with it when I realized the potential of this lens.

We shot a focus chart with my 16mm Standard Zeiss (just got serviced) and then we shot with the Tokina (wide open-2.8) at both 16mm and 11mm.

That was when the quality of the optics really changed they way I looked at the lens.

Distortion is almost not existent.
Sharpness for corner to corner is almost perfect.
And I you can see the difference of sharpness compare to the Zeiss is very minimal
Below I posted some pics from test so you can judge by yourself.

Conclusion:
It's an incredible value, the optics of this lens are surprisingly good and the mechanics are at the upper end of the AF still lenses. While focus throw does not compare with a 14mm Ultraprime, the ultraprime cost's $12,000 and the Tokia does the job of a 12mm, 14mm and 16mm. A reasonable trade off for saving tens of thousands of dollars.

[Paul Hazlett]

thanks for the test!!

but WTF MATT!!! you have been holding out on us for weeks!!!!
sooo unfair.....so who do I send the check to?

[Roberto Lequeux]

How far were you standing from the camera on that shot?

[Matt Uhry]

thanks for the test!!

but WTF MATT!!! you have been holding out on us for weeks!!!!
sooo unfair.....so who do I send the check to?

As fun as the prototype is to play around with ( are you in LA ? we maybe could arrange a play-date ) The version the Duclos family is working on is going to be better.

It's not a tease, not vaporware. Perhaps just a little patience ?

Matt
www.mattuhry.com

[Matthew Duclos]

Just a little update.
I've come up with a decent design that should solve the aperture problem and we should be moving forward with the prototype.

[Troy Smith]

another buyer here,

possible these be available in the next 2 months?

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Very interested here as well.

Emmanuel

[Filmarte]

thanks for the test!!

but WTF MATT!!! you have been holding out on us for weeks!!!!
sooo unfair.....so who do I send the check to?

I am sorry, it was me, that slacked on posting this info.

Ruben F. Russ.
Cinematographer

[Filmarte]

How far were you standing from the camera on that shot?

I was probably 6-7ft. away from camera.
More interesting than that to me in that shot is how little distortion the lens has on the corners


Ruben F. Russ
Cinematographer

[Roberto Lequeux]

Thanks. Could you shoot a grid? I haven't found one online.

[Paul Hazlett]

As fun as the prototype is to play around with ( are you in LA ? we maybe could arrange a play-date ) The version the Duclos family is working on is going to be better.

It's not a tease, not vaporware. Perhaps just a little patience ?

Matt
www.mattuhry.com


I am sorry, it was me, that slacked on posting this info.

Ruben F. Russ.
Cinematographer


just having a bit of guys...hehheh....take your time....but not that much!
I am a big fan of the wide end so this setup is really got me stoked!

Thanks for the effort

[Matt Uhry]

Thanks. Could you shoot a grid? I haven't found one online.

No chart, but Ken Rockwell does go into distortion characteristics.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tokina/11-16mm.htm

Also some interesting things about full frame ( 24x36mm ) coverage....

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Adrian T.]

Here's another review with grid shots:
http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/45-canon-eos-aps-c/379-tokina_1116_28_canon (http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/45-canon-eos-aps-c/379-tokina_1116_28_canon)

[Roberto Lequeux]

Thanks for the link, I hadn't read that one.

I am not 100% sure I know how to read those but it seems they put a lot of emphasis into the corners and the most distorted areas of the image are in the centers of the edges, correct? Too bad they didn't include the chart for 12mm and 13mm! And, as the review says, it seems that at 14mm it is practically perfect already, with 16mm being almost literal perfect. This is great...

I wonder what the 11mm corrected 1080p out of 4k would look like? I assume most the sharpness would be re-gained, and I assume that at 14mm you would have unnoticeable sharpness loss, perhaps even at close inspection from a trained person? Could that be the case for 11mm?

I know I am taking this a bit far, but if you had the effects stored for each mm increment, and could somehow add clicks to the lens... I would assume that it could help when intercutting with optically stunning primes. Especially with even more resolution at 5k.

It would also be interesting if used with FF35 to be able to switch to 6k using the full sensor and shoot at 15mm where even a 16:9 would avoid vignetting. If shooting for 2.4 you might even be able to get the 14mm to work. Plus the added resolution for the correction...

And isn't 16mm in FF already 180 degrees?

I would appreciate it if someone could correct any misunderstandings I may have so I can know if I am getting the full picture, but this sounds like a phenomenal no-brainer buy any way you look at it. Even if you work with nothing but the biggest clients on MPs, cause that that level this price is buying chewing gum and it would make a kick butt stunt lens, like inside a car for a crash shooting 6k at 100fps on Epic FF... yeah baby!

[Nils J. Nesse]

And isn't 16mm in FF already 180 degrees?


The 16mm fisheye lenses are 180 degrees on fullframe.

16mm rectilinear is 107 degrees FOV on fullframe.

[Stephen Pruitt]

We love our Tokina 11-16mm on the Nikon mount. . . just love it. . . it's an utterly amazing lens for the money.

Stephen

[Roberto Lequeux]

The 16mm fisheye lenses are 180 degrees on fullframe.

16mm rectilinear is 107 degrees FOV on fullframe.

Thank you very much. Missing that piece of info had been messing me up for a long time.

[Steve Gibby]

I won't be buying this PL conversion of the Tokina 11-16 because I simply don't need PL and a geared lens for much of the work I do. But I would like to add a vote of confidence for the Tokina 11-16 and Duclos.

I recently used a Tokina 11-16 on part of a project - and I can vouch for the glowing reviews of the lens. It is crisp, good contrast, and seems to be well made. After that, I bought one, and have been testing it out with the Underdahl Nikon mount - with excellent results.

As for Duclos, they maintain all my pro series lenses for me, and their lens tech work is simply the best I've found - anywhere. If Duclos is converting the already excellent Tokina 11-16 as Matt has posted, IMO the end result will be a kick-ass, crisp, good action PL wide zoom - something that is very useful in any traditional cinematographer's kit.

[Mark Pedersen]

Matt,

Count me in as well.

Are you planning to buy the lenses, do the mod and sell the finished product? Or are you expecting people to buy one, ship it to you and then you modify? They seem to be backordered at the moment.


Mark

[Matthew Duclos]

Matt,

Count me in as well.

Are you planning to buy the lenses, do the mod and sell the finished product? Or are you expecting people to buy one, ship it to you and then you modify? They seem to be backordered at the moment.

Yes.
;)

[Paul Hazlett]

I also looked around for one and they do seem to be in short supply. but with this many
orders I would think you could order straight from the distributer.


waitng with baited breath.....are we there yet?...how bout......now......

Just kiding I can wait, sorta

[david thies]

i am interested

[Mark Pedersen]

Yes.
;)

Yes to which? I assume you mean, "yes" you will buy lens from the manufacturer and sell the finished modified lens.

Correct?

Just being clear so I don't have to worry about shopping for one, etc... ;)

Thanks,

M

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think he meant yes to either option... And it seems that yes could apply to current back-order status too.

[Petr Dvorak]

I like this thread :)

[jonnycom]

I would go for one. When?

[Florian Stadler]

Count me in for one of these! I've long dreamed of owning the Hawk 10-24mm and this is as close as it gets without spending 55K...

Awesome work Matt...

[Matt Uhry]

Count me in for one of these! I've long dreamed of owning the Hawk 10-24mm and this is as close as it gets without spending 55K...

Awesome work Matt...

Hi Florian !

Dr Lens and Dr Lens Jr. are hard at work improving the iris travel - sounds like they've figured out a really good solution.

The plan is to have the first one finished the week before NAB.

And then start taking orders and do the first batch.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Johnny Friday]

Matt,
Yes, very interested in one of those lenses!! Count me in and email me when you have them tested and acceptable for delivery.

[Mark Pedersen]

I think he meant yes to either option... And it seems that yes could apply to current back-order status too.

Er... not very helpful.

Matt, can you answer in a clear way?

M

[Matthew Duclos]

We currently allow the customer to bring us their ZF lenses and modify them, basically overnight.. But this is a far more in depth conversion with many internal components that will require much more time. We haven't yet decided what service we will offer. Yes, the supply from Tokina is rather short. So converting customers lenses could be a good idea since our stock may not be very large. But at the same time, we like to ensure that everything that leaves our shop is in tip-top shape. Most of our business is word-of-mouth. So we like to make sure nobody gets a "janky lens from Duclos".
If we cannot secure a decent stock of NEW Tokina's for conversion, then we might consider converting customers "used" lenses.

[Rudi Herbert]

I, for one, would rather buy the whole package from Duclos, and not bother with buying one and shipping it over to them...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm with Rudi. Would prefer to buy the whole thing from Duclos. This also (presumably) gives them the power to reject any possible sub-standard lenses in the process. Whereas us end users who buy them may get one that's a bit crappy compared to most of the Tokinas shipped out the door and we may never know it. I don't know how much the samples vary on these lenses.

Suppy is short and If it would help, I'd be willing to put in a deposit so Matt could have a better idea of actual quantity needed and possibly make a purchase directly from Tokina's US distributor[s].

[ericyoung]

Hmm. Thinking aloud - so manufacturing tolerances will explain some "bad" examples of lenses in new lenses. Do Tokina (and other good prosumer/pro) still lenses have any tweakability in terms of making a "bad" example "good"? Is that something that Duclos and other lens gurus do, or is it not possible or worth the bother?

[Jeff Kieffer]

Hi,

I think for international customers it is easier to buy straight from Duclos. It's less mess with the customs, so in the end it will be cheaper!

Jeff

[Matthew Duclos]

Hi,

I think for international customers it is easier to buy straight from Duclos. It's less mess with the customs, so in the end it will be cheaper!

Jeff

I very much agree with that. We have a bit of experience dealing internationally. Click here>>Client Map (http://ducloslenses.com/Home/ClientMap.html)

[Jeff Kieffer]

Hehe, yeah maybe you could land a mark in Luxembourg :)

Any pics on the progression?

[Patric Ralston]

Hi, I'm interested. Please keep me posted.

Patric

[Paul Hazlett]

After all the hub bub about other products charging before shippiing,people might think I am crazy but Dr. Lens knows his Stuff so I for one would be happy to pay upfront for a good place in line once a price is established cause its getting to be a mighty looooong line.

But I am not tipping the bouncer.

[Mark Pedersen]

I very much agree with that. We have a bit of experience dealing internationally. Click here>>Client Map (http://ducloslenses.com/Home/ClientMap.html)

Hey Matt,

That's my preference as well. Much better for everyone if you source the lens (presumably you could get a volume discount to help you out) and as a lens company buying from a supplier, I would think they would tend to ship their best units to you). And for any of us, much easier and reassuring to buy the finished product from you.

<M

[Steve Gal]

Interested.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Please put me on the list of interested parties - or is that interested in partying, I can never remember :tongue: hehe

Now, what lens should we mod next? Yes, we means you Matt :biggrin: hehe

Yes, I want it for hand held, yes there's already another thread, but the desire burns strong in me (funnier if you say it like Yoda).

[Nils Ruinet]

I'm interested too, depending on the final price....

[Matt Uhry]

Please put me on the list of interested parties - or is that interested in partying, I can never remember :tongue: hehe

Now, what lens should we mod next? Yes, we means you Matt :biggrin: hehe

Yes, I want it for hand held, yes there's already another thread, but the desire burns strong in me (funnier if you say it like Yoda).

What are you looking for ? I was thinking about converting a Nikon 135mmf2 DC ( defocus control ) a rocking lens with a few nifty tricks up it's sleeve.


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Paul Hazlett]

What are you looking for ? I was thinking about converting a Nikon 135mmf2 DC ( defocus control ) a rocking lens with a few nifty tricks up it's sleeve.


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Could you do the same for canon lenses? I have some k35's I would like to match at 100mm and the aformentioned 135, or do you think I could get away with the nikons?

[Matt Uhry]

Could you do the same for canon lenses? I have some k35's I would like to match at 100mm and the aformentioned 135, or do you think I could get away with the nikons?

probably FD canons... same era as the k35's. the newer ones have electronic iris's and would be more of a total rebuild.

The Nikon 135mm f2 DC would probably look a bit more contrasty and modern.

Remounting lenses is not a business for me, I've just made a few things that I wanted for my own use. So many people were interested in the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 that I got Matt and Paul Duclos involved, and they are taking it way beyond what I was able to do.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Matt Uhry]

Could you do the same for canon lenses? I have some k35's I would like to match at 100mm and the aformentioned 135, or do you think I could get away with the nikons?

probably FD canons... same era as the k35's. the newer ones have electronic iris's and would be more of a total rebuild.

The Nikon would probably look a bit more contrasty and modern.

Remounting lenses is not a business for me, I've just made a few things that I wanted for my own use. So many people were interested in the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 that I got Matt and Paul Duclos involved, and they are taking it way beyond what I was able to do.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Eduardo Ruiz]

Very interested! Keep me posted.

[jaadgy akanni]

probably FD canons... same era as the k35's. the newer ones have electronic iris's and would be more of a total rebuild.

The Nikon would probably look a bit more contrasty and modern.

Remounting lenses is not a business for me, I've just made a few things that I wanted for my own use. So many people were interested in the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 that I got Matt and Paul Duclos involved, and they are taking it way beyond what I was able to do.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Douclos mentioned that he had a solution for Iris control; if that's feasible, I'd like my Nikkor AF-s 24-70 PL modified too.

[JanneJansson]

I order one also (if the final price is cool).

[Rudi Herbert]

I've never used any of the Duclos modified lenses, but I'm certain that whatever he makes, will be up to the highest standards, so I'm ready to buy the Duclos cinetized/Pl-ed 11-16 on the spot. However, what I truly hope for is that this first offering meets with enough demand and praise that Duclos decides to embark on a "cinetizing series" for other lenses, things like the Nikon 17-35mm or the 24-70, etc, etc and many other lenses. I can see where this could become an ongoing project where we poll to see what we want to see made, and depending on demand and feasibility, Duclos produces that product. That would be an outstanding outcome to this Tokina 11-16mm venture...

[Andrea Scaglione]

Of course I am also interested...


Andrea

[Alex Boothby]

I am very interested. Thanks Matt.
Alex Boothby

[Matthew Duclos]

Douclos mentioned that he had a solution for Iris control; if that's feasible, I'd like my Nikkor AF-s 24-70 PL modified too.

This is not likely.
Century Precision Optics used to convert the 17-35mm still lens into a "cine" lens and it was never quite on par with a real cine zoom. A lens such as the Nikon 24-70 has far too much image shift with zoom and focus. Don't get me wrong, the lens is optically superb.. But auto focus lenses use very light, delicate mechanics to allow the tiny motors to drive the focus. This leaves loose tolerances and erratic focus pulls. We wouldn't want to produce something that is unreliable or low quality that would end up becoming synonymous with our name and company. The 11-16 was a good candidate because it held focus quite well and the need for such a wide lens was obvious.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Not that it makes a difference either way, but I think all the Century 17-35 conversions are of the Canon EOS variant of 17-35. Nice lens, for a conversion of the sort, but [IMO] isn't worth it when the RED 18-50 hangs just fine with it and is readily available for half the price.

[Matthew Duclos]

Jeff,
Yes it was a Canon. I was just using that conversion as an example.

[Matthew Duclos]

Anodizing is complete and final touches are being put on the initial lens.
We are expecting to have a completed working model by NAB that myself and Matt Uhry can walk around with and show.
For those of you who can't make it to NAB, I should have some pics posted here very soon.

[Paul Hazlett]

pre orders?:couch:http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/smilies/emote_couch.gif
I am guessing this is the pre order smiley?

[C.H.Haskell]

Well done gusy, look forward to checking out this mod.

[Frank Weeks]

We are expecting to have a completed working model by NAB that myself and Matt Uhry can walk around with and show.
For those of you who can't make it to NAB, I should have some pics posted here very soon.

Hey Matt
Where at NAB will we be able to see your lens before the reduser gathering?

Thanks
Frank

[Matthew Duclos]

Hey Matt
Where at NAB will we be able to see your lens before the reduser gathering?


Not really sure. Im just going to NAB to check out the cool new stuff (and put a few miles on the new ride)..
Either Matt Uhry or myself will be wandering around with it. Any suggestions on a meeting place?

[Harry Lipnick]

Hey Matt-
This mod sounds wonderful, but I was wondering if there is any chance you'd also consider doing a version with all the mods (front element, gear, iris) except for the PL mount for those of us who are going to using a Nikon mount on our camera. I would also assume this would make the finished lens considerably less expensive. Let me know if that would be a potential possibility. Thanks.
Peace,

-Harry

[Matthew Duclos]

Hey Matt-
This mod sounds wonderful, but I was wondering if there is any chance you'd also consider doing a version with all the mods (front element, gear, iris) except for the PL mount for those of us who are going to using a Nikon mount on our camera. I would also assume this would make the finished lens considerably less expensive. Let me know if that would be a potential possibility. Thanks.
Peace,

-Harry

Unfortunately installing the manual aperture control requires deletion of the Nikon mount. If you're using the Nikon mount on your RED I would suggest the Underdahl mount modification. We already offer our standard Cine-mod that provides zoom/focus gears and an 80mm front. Seems like this would suit your needs quite well.

[Matthew Duclos]

A little update... We decided to look into the Canon mount version of the Tokina 11-16mm as an alternative to the Nikon mount. The main reason for this is the focus scale travels in the "proper" direction. So focus pullers will be a little more pleased.

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Tokina_IMS_G.JPG
Tokina 11-16mm F/2.8 Nikon DX with IMS Canon EOS mount and 16:9 Canon EOS to Nikon G adapter.

[Roberto Lequeux]

SJ, I saw the results of your lens on your Red and it looks great, but these guys are looking for a PL solution.

Side note, does your adapter pancake make the FOV smaller?

[Mike Prevette]

Sanjin,

What is the point of your spamming IMS stuff all over the place? I think everyone in the Reduser world is well aware of your love for the IMS and Leica optics. I'm sure the system works well and I'm sure all these adapters work flawlessly, but most of use need production ready, standardized systems. Your posts do nothing to help the dialog and eat bandwidth.

[Paul Hazlett]

A little update... We decided to look into the Canon mount version of the Tokina 11-16mm as an alternative to the Nikon mount. The main reason for this is the focus scale travels in the "proper" direction. So focus pullers will be a little more pleased.

This is excellent news, hope its work out!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

Mike,

sorry for disturbing you but it was just to show that exists also another option with all still lens for moving images cons...

Nothing more than that...

[Meryem Ersoz]

Late to this thread...is there a pre-order/order option?

I totally need this lens!

[Sanjin Jukic]

you're only aloud to preorder this lens if you know the exact number of sj's posts mentioning the IMS.. chuckle

Ooohhhh!

My Swiss "funs" are back again!

Salut, ciao, and gruezzi! :beer:

[David Birdy]

Not really sure. Im just going to NAB to check out the cool new stuff (and put a few miles on the new ride)..
Either Matt Uhry or myself will be wandering around with it. Any suggestions on a meeting place?

Can you make it to the Reduser party Wednesday at the RIO?

You may be able to get the lens on a RED !

Dave

[JD Holloway]

How does the canon 10-22 stack up on red?
I like the fact that is has a better zoom range and goes to 10mm.
Of course its slower 3.5-4.5 so there's a trade off...

[Matthew Duclos]

Can you make it to the Reduser party Wednesday at the RIO?

You may be able to get the lens on a RED !

I will be at the REDUSER gathering at the Rio.
I should have the lens with me still. It's up to the guys at RED or someone with a RED to put the lens up. I'm chromatically challenged :cool: .

[IAN SUN]

interested...

[Matt Uhry]

A few Updates -

I'm working NAB week and Planning to take the Nikon based ( focus wrong way ) version with me to YVR on a toy shoot. I should have a chance to put it through it's paces...

Matthew Duclos will have the Canon based version ( focus Cine way ) with him at NAB. We'll figure out a few times and places where you can meet with him and play around with the lens.

If you're in LA you can check out one of the prototypes or ever better put it on rental on your next job !

Once it's spec's and price are finalized we'll take deposits and do the first batch. Paul "Dr. Lens" Duclos told me the machine shops are slow these days due to the recession and will be able to atypically deliver on time !

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Roberto Lequeux]

Matthew, will we see a finished version or any other info or tests posted prior to NAB?

[Shawn Nelson]

And did price ever shake out?

Also is the Canon (focus right way) also PL mount and can you adjust the iris?

[Matthew Duclos]

We did decide to go with the Canon version for the PL conversion. All the same specs as the Nikon version, but with a proper focus rotation. That includes PL mount and manual aperture.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It looks like the Canon version is more readily available, too. :)

[Roberto Lequeux]

I too would like to hear about the price.

[Matthew Duclos]

The price is still being determined.
We are currently looking at a price roughly ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
Kidding... I'm fairly confident it will be sub-$3,000.

[Mike Prevette]

Seriously, my pocket book is just burning to empty itself all over casa-de Duclos to get this little sucker.

[Mike Prevette]

2 questions,

1) what is the OD of lens front? if it's non standard will you make a delrin step up to the next standard?

2) any thoughts on a small motor bracket? do you feel the zoom mechanism tracks well enough to be used as a zoom? I hate zooming, and tend to use zooms as variable primes (especially in this wide of a lens) but it never hurts to ask.

[Matthew Duclos]

Mike,
The range of zoom really isn't much to work with.
It would be much better as a super wide variable prime.
But yes, the zoom does track well enough to zoom while shooting.
That has been a pet peeve of mine for as long as I've been in optics.
The front diameter will be a very common size of 80mm.
You'll still have to be carful about vignetting when used with a mattebox.

[DAVID McNAMARA]

What are you looking for ? I was thinking about converting a Nikon 135mmf2 DC ( defocus control ) a rocking lens with a few nifty tricks up it's sleeve.


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Matt,
I am interested in the Tokina lens for sure. But now I am realy curious about the ˜Nikon 135mmf2 DC conversion. I have shot with this lens for years on my Nikon but putting it on my RED would be incredible! Let me know about the possibility and the cost.

[Paul Hazlett]

I just realized you guys are gonna need a few beta testers for the canon version of your lens, So I am generously offering my Red and time to test it out
I think its also important that tests be done on the east coast too.

Ready and waiting!!!

[Matt Uhry]

Matt,
I am interested in the Tokina lens for sure. But now I am realy curious about the ˜Nikon 135mmf2 DC conversion. I have shot with this lens for years on my Nikon but putting it on my RED would be incredible! Let me know about the possibility and the cost.

Do you use the DC feature very often ? or should I look for a 135 that focus's the cine way ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Roberto Lequeux]

The price is still being determined.
We are currently looking at a price roughly ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
Kidding... I'm fairly confident it will be sub-$3,000.

lol... did you bring your pinkie to your mouth as you typed that? :beer:

Sub $3k sounds good. $2,750 would make it very popular in my humble opinion.

Is this math correct?

11mm in S35 = 95° horizontal FOV

13mm in S35 = 85.4° horizontal FOV
13mm in FF35 = 108.3° horizontal FOV

16mm in S35 = 73.7° horizontal FOV
16mm in FF35 = 96.7° horizontal FOV

~21% wider FOV

[Andrea Scaglione]

lol... did you bring your pinkie to your mouth as you typed that? :beer:

Sub $3k sounds good. $2,750 would make it very popular in my humble opinion.

At this price I buy the lense today.

Andrea

[Matthew Duclos]

I must first apologize for the cheezy table top photo. Not my usual fashion.
But here is a snapshot of the finished product you can expect to see.
Proper focus rotation
80mm front dia.
Stainless steel PL mount
32-pitch zoom, focus, and iris gear
approximately 1.5 lbs
Still under $3,000
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3541/3461553325_ccdd80e1ce_o.jpg
BTW... You'll never guess what lens I used to take this picture. ;)

[Roberto Lequeux]

The iris ring looks nice. We are looking at the top correct?

Let's see the mount.

[Ken Willinger]

I held this in my hands yesterday at NAB. This is going to be a sweet addition for a lightweight wide. BTW, nice meeting you, Jose and Michelle!

[Matthew Duclos]

Same to you Ken.
It was nice to finally put a face to the name.
I hope to be doing a lot of that this week.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Looks great, Matthew!

I have to inquire about the "T" on the iris scale, though... Do you intend to re-mark the lens with actual T-Stops?

[Brian Broz]

I was fortunate to work with Matt Uhry on a 3 day job and see the Duclos modified 11-16mm lens in action.
It really is a fantastic option for us Redusers and seems like a "must" for owner/operators. It holds focus through the range and very little breathing.
Amazing size and performance for the money!
From what I viewed in RedCine this little (Toduhry?) wonder held up very well against significantly more expensive primes.
I'll be adding one to my order of Red Primes.
FWIW,

Brian Broz

[Mike Prevette]

This just means I will have to pester Duclos even more than I already am to get one. He's going to have to shut down his twitter feed if I bug him one more time.

[Matt Uhry]

This just means I will have to pester Duclos even more than I already am to get one. He's going to have to shut down his twitter feed if I bug him one more time.

Mike, you will certainly be in the first batch ! And that should be quite soon.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[George A.]

Sorry if it has been asked before...

Does this lens cover 5K on the upcoming EPIC?


Thanks!

[Matthew Duclos]

Nope.
This lens is a DX format lens and works perfect for 4K.
Although, if you really wanna push it... I believe it covers FF35 at 16mm.
But it is meant for 4K

[George A.]

Thank you for the quick response!

And this is definitely an amazing job Matthew! Great lens, great customization!

I have the Kinoptik Tegea 9.8mm T2.3 that also covers 4K fine. I am looking for a similar wide lens that would cover 5K (or even 6K), when I upgrade to EPIC.

Any ideas? Could be a still lens as well, that I'd send over to you for a similar customization.

Thank you.

[James Brundige]

I'm interested in this lens.

[hdcrew]

Nice job Matthew, will the lens be capable of supporting a clip on matte box?

Nick Bennett

[Matthew Duclos]

Nice job Matthew, will the lens be capable of supporting a clip on matte box?

You bet!
It has a very common 80mm front.

[Jeff Kieffer]

It has a very common 80mm front.

Hi Matthew,

Is it feasible to get a larger front later on to match an existing prime set? Like the 110mm of the RPP's for exemple?

When can we place orders?

Jeff

[Roberto Lequeux]

Nope.
This lens is a DX format lens and works perfect for 4K.
Although, if you really wanna push it... I believe it covers FF35 at 16mm.
But it is meant for 4K

Or at 5k we might be able to get a little wider and use it along-side the 18mm and longer RPPs.

At 13mm the Tokina's little distortion goes away completely, as far as I remember. So I think it might be really sweet if we can at go to 14mm at 5k!

That could make the 14mm RPP a tough sell for those without tons of money, or at least make Red try a little bit harder to make their 14mm T1.8 and keep the cost as low as possible.

[Matt Uhry]

Coverage for FF format is possible from 14mm onwards - it depends on your aspect ratio and how much look-around Red decides to implement. Check out Ken Rockwell's review of the lens. Coverage chart is half-way down:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tokina/11-16mm.htm

Here's 14mm - probably will work fine for most normal aspect ratios. 36x24mm "FF35" being 1.5:1 and not really used for motion work.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tokina/images/11-16mm/fx/14-D3R_4304.jpg

5k (15x30mm) probably from 12.5 onwards - again depending on look-around and if you are shooting 1.78 or 2:1

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Roberto Lequeux]

Looking at the gray on gray worried me a bit. Should I not worry so much about this amount of vignetting?

From what I gather it seems even MPs vignette, RPPs are also expected to do so, but I guess it is all about acceptable levels and what that means for you instead of good and bad lenses.

I threw Ken's 13mm f2.8 gray chart cropped to 2.4:1 on top of a gray background equal to the center of the image. I am not sure, nor does anyone I guess, about what the crop factor will be for 5k on Mostro. I'd love to check it out, even as an approximation. I believe 5k Mostro 2.4:1 is what Jim said RPPs will cover if I remember correctly.

It obviously seems that 13mm f2.8 would be very acceptable once cropped to 5k and then again for 2.4:1.

Still, I'd love to see an approximation with the chart if someone would give me an idea of what the crop factor could be.

One small thing I noticed that worried me a little bit is that the vignette seems more pronounced on the left side, which I guess would hint at uneven illumination during testing?

[Paul Hazlett]

any updates you opitcal oligarchs care to share with the masses?

no pressure, just curious.

[JD Holloway]

That vignetting is pretty minor. You would almost never see it.

[Matthew Duclos]

We are just looking for a steady supply from Tokina before we start pumping these little guys out.
Once we secure a supply, I'll release a nice newsletter and maybe post something here on REDuser with all the final details.
Feel free to ask questions about the lens here. Im sure I can answer your questions.

[Shawn Nelson]

Matthew, a pleasure to meet you. I'm very interested in this lens, would be a fun addition to the RPP set, even after the 18mm ships. Has final price been determined?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm thinking the same thing you are Shawn. This is going to be a great addition to the RPP's. Hopefully Dr. Lens can secure a number of these lenses soon... Last word on price was "under $3K". I'm very interested to know, too.

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm thinking the same thing you are Shawn. This is going to be a great addition to the RPP's. Hopefully Dr. Lens can secure a number of these lenses soon... Last word on price was "under $3K". I'm very interested to know, too.

And whether that's the patened Red "under $3k" which means $2995 or actually under $3k :-D. If it was $2k, I'd probably buy it immediately. $3k and I'd probably need to wait a bit as getting the 18mm RPP has priority and that's due in just a few months. Sheesh, too much good product hitting all at once...

[Paul Hazlett]

Do you guys know the image circle on the retrofited lens?

[Matthew Duclos]

The image circle changes throughout the zoom range.
It's originally a DX format lens which covers the RED One sensor just fine.
Here's a quick little (childish) illustration.
(before I get slammed for crappy images, these were taken with my phone...
the distortion is not from the Tokina, it's from my phone taking pictures at an angle... Back to business.)

This image shows the lens set at 11mm. I marked where 5K coverage is.
The image just barely covers to 5K and we are looking into cutting back some more of the front housing to see if that's the wide angle coverage limitation.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3482674427_60d2810c18.jpg

Next is the lens set at 16mm. As you can see, it covers well beyond 5K almost covering the 43.27mm FF35 frame.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3343/3482674863_313db6b9b9.jpg

So now you've seen its full coverage. And even with the very minor vignette at 11mm, it covers 5K entirely at 12mm and beyond.

[Mike Prevette]

Can I pay you yet?

[Roberto Lequeux]

Nice! Very encouraging Matthew. Thanks for the info.

[Paul Hazlett]

thanks for the chart....but please dont quite your day job to do graphics....heh heh.

[Erik Widding]

It's originally a DX format lens which covers the RED One sensor just fine. Here's a quick little (childish) illustration.
(before I get slammed for crappy images, these were taken with my phone...
the distortion is not from the Tokina, it's from my phone taking pictures at an angle... Back to business.)

Please post the uncropped images so it is easier to understand the distortion due to the camera phone. FWIW, the cropping makes it look as though the distortion is in the projected lens, and not the camera phone lens.

[Matthew Duclos]

I was afraid of that... Hence the preface.
The images weren't cropped. They came from an iPhone. hahah
It was simply a picture to show the coverage. Not the distortion.
If you look at the first picture, you can see the iris rods from my projector...
That gives you an idea of the angle I was snapping the pic from.

[Erik Widding]

Hate to break it to you, but the iphone is actually reducing the apparent distortion in the lens. Second picture, lower right corner, I see barrel distortion from your iphone. We can assume that the projected lens is not bending the lines at the center of the lens, but in the images they appear to be bent. This can be taken as representative of the distortion in the iphone. So, in the upper left corner of the same picture, the pin cushion distortion is actually reduced by the iphone's barrel distortion.

Ironically, the barrel distortion of iphone lens is causing it to appear as though the projected lens has less barrel distortion (when thought of as a taking lens) than it really does. I see the distortion as significant at ff35, but not quite so significant at s35. Nevertheless, this lens, rehoused or not, canon, nikon or PL attached to the camera, is looking like an interesting option.

[Mitch Gross]

Guys, the projector is about a foot away from the wall. Use any extreme wide angle that close and it will appear to distort. Back it up a bit and Matt would need a theater screen to handle the projection angle. Remember, we're talking 11mm coverage here.

[Matthew Duclos]

Exactly Mitch. Very good point. The rods are practically against my projection surface.
There are plenty of pictures around the web taken with the Tokina that show distortion.
Matt Uhry used it just this last weekend on a shoot and came back with some great results.
Im pretty sure this is at 12mm
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3486657368_5dcf933574.jpg

[Shawn Nelson]

Exactly Mitch. Very good point. The rods are practically against my projection surface.
There are plenty of pictures around the web taken with the Tokina that show distortion.
Matt Uhry used it just this last weekend on a shoot and came back with some great results.
Im pretty sure this is at 12mm
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3486657368_5dcf933574.jpg

That's seriously awesome, I assume this is on Red using your Tokina?

[Matthew Duclos]

Here is another shot, still a mere 4' from the wall at 11mm.
I can't go any farther back because my wall isn't big enough to show the coverage of the projection.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3485867381_d60122c5fe.jpg

[Matthew Duclos]

That's seriously awesome, I assume this is on Red using your Tokina?

This was from Matt Uhry. He was using the very first prototype lens on a RED.

[Matt Uhry]

This was from Matt Uhry. He was using the very first prototype lens on a RED.

Confirmed 12.5mm on the Red, Quad HD mode.

It's not that there is NO barrel distortion, there is just very little. It's really good.

We shot some test footage yesterday afternoon with it. This weekend or next week I think Ken Corbin is going to take it for a dive near Anacapa Island.

I should be able to cut the footage together into a little reel by the end of next week.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Mitch Gross]

Here is another shot, still a mere 4' from the wall at 11mm.
I can't go any farther back because my wall isn't big enough to show the coverage of the projection.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3485867381_d60122c5fe.jpg

Kinda looks like a VW bus headed into a dark tunnel, doesn't it? ;-)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Can I buy one yet? :beer:

[Matthew Duclos]

Kinda looks like a VW bus headed into a dark tunnel, doesn't it? ;-)

Ummm... I think this must be an optical illusion from my iPhone.
The large VW shape in the lower middle is a reflection from the aluminum surface on the phone.
Accompanied by the distortion of the iPhone and the lack of aperture blades...
The Tokina will not render VW buses in real life.
I kid, I kid.:cool:
Century Projector FTW!

[Paul Hazlett]

Exactly
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3486657368_5dcf933574.jpg

now if this kind of shot don't get your juices moving for this lens I dont know what will.

soo about that payment address?

[Roberto Lequeux]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3486657368_5dcf933574.jpg

Holy building blocks batman! Wow... #$&@! I want to shoot with this combo NOW!

That is gorgeous work Matt. Love the colors. :thumbsup:

Matt, would you say that 12.5mm is the bleeding edge of distortion "free" territory? From the charts it seems 13mm is very clean, but when in a pinch push it to 12.5mm, not further?

Or was 12.5mm just what you happened to set it to considering everything and not just distortion? I guess my question should be: do you use the lens wider than 12.5mm? If so, often or only under certain conditions?

[Matt Uhry]

This is at 11mm in 4k mode. Since it's wide you see the lines converge, but there is very little barrel distortion at 11mm.

http://mattuhry.com/reduserimages/burden.jpg

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Paul Hazlett]

This is at 11mm in 4k mode. Since it's wide you see the lines converge, but there is very little barrel distortion at 11mm.

http://mattuhry.com/reduserimages/burden.jpg

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

that is friggin awesome. where are you? a lampost factory?

[Matt Uhry]

Urban Light by Chris Burden. It's on Wilshire in LA near Fairfax.
Beautiful! First time I saw it lit I almost crashed my car.

http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2008-02-lacma_lights.jpg

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Scott Webster]

Urban Light by Chris Burden. It's on Wilshire in LA near Fairfax.
Beautiful! First time I saw it lit I almost crashed my car.

http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2008-02-lacma_lights.jpg

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Must.Buy.Now.

[Matthew Duclos]

So here is an update... Tokina is not cooperating very much so we are calling all the retail shops around the country and snatching up all the Canon mount 11-16 Tokinas.
This is good and bad...
Bad because its harder to find the lenses in large quantities.
Good because I half expected no help from Tokina, and the price will still be under $3,000.

I will send out a newsletter soon with (pre)ordering details as well as performance and modification details.

[Kwan Khan]

Do we have an option to send our Tokina (Nikon mount)?

[Matthew Duclos]

To keep the cost low, we will not be making parts for the Nikon mount version.
I know this sucks for a lot of people that already own the Nikon version (Nikon FTW).
But we could not justify making the parts for both versions.
On top of that, the aperture linkage in the Nikon version requires much more work and would increase the cost quite a bit.

So, officially...
We will gladly accept your Tokina lens and perform the conversion if it is a Canon mount version.

[Shawn Nelson]

So here is an update... Tokina is not cooperating very much so we are calling all the retail shops around the country and snatching up all the Canon mount 11-16 Tokinas.
This is good and bad...
Bad because its harder to find the lenses in large quantities.
Good because I half expected no help from Tokina, and the price will still be under $3,000.

I will send out a newsletter soon with (pre)ordering details as well as performance and modification details.

That sucks. B&H is far and away the cheapest it seems, surely they'd be happy to roll you an order for however many of those you could possibly want

[Mike Prevette]

Problem is they don't have any ;)



That sucks. B&H is far and away the cheapest it seems, surely they'd be happy to roll you an order for however many of those you could possibly want

[Matthew Duclos]

That sucks. B&H is far and away the cheapest it seems, surely they'd be happy to roll you an order for however many of those you could possibly want

Shawn...
Problem is...
We already cleaned B&H out of their Tokinas.

Don't worry. I have other sources. ;)

[Paul Hazlett]

So here is an update... Tokina is not cooperating very much.....

I really don't understand that way of doing business, does not do anybody any good.

[Meryem Ersoz]

I will send out a newsletter soon with (pre)ordering details as well as performance and modification details.

How do we ensure that we receive the newsletter?

[Nils J. Nesse]

http://www.ducloslenses.com/Home/TheList.html

It's a must.

[Matthew Duclos]

We will start taking orders next week when I send out the newsletter with details.
I don't mean to sound like Jannard here...
But details will change (for the better) and expect delays. ;)
For example, we are changing the focus gear from delrin to aluminum.
Little details but nothing major.
As I mentioned in previous posts, our supply is slow but steady.
I got bored last night.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3491895368_213445d559.jpg

[Andrea Scaglione]

We will start taking orders next week when I send out the newsletter with details.
I don't mean to sound like Jannard here...
But details will change (for the better) and expect delays. ;)
For example, we are changing the focus gear from delrin to aluminum.
Little details but nothing major.
As I mentioned in previous posts, our supply is slow but steady.
I got bored last night.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3491895368_213445d559.jpg
Bravo!:thumbsup:

Andrea

[Matthew Duclos]

I actually considered giving it a cheezy name that would tie in with RED.
My favorite was... Crimson Wide.

Needless to say, the boss-man didn't dig it.

[Matt Uhry]

I got bored last night.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3491895368_213445d559.jpg

Final Version Looks Sweet, Matthew !

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Guy]

Is the final version going to have iris marks in T stops?

[Matthew Duclos]

Is the final version going to have iris marks in T stops?

Yes. Same as the aperture scale in the ad.

[Nils J. Nesse]

For a suggestion, maybe you should make the focus ring wider, to cover the Tokina rubber ring... will probably look more professional?

[Guy]

Yes. Same as the aperture scale in the ad.

Are those actual T stops? Does T2.8=f2.8 on this lens? Is that possible? Thanks

[Matthew Verkler]

I actually considered giving it a cheezy name that would tie in with RED.
My favorite was... Crimson Wide.

Needless to say, the boss-man didn't dig it.

How 'bout "Bloody Wide"?

Whatever it's named, I want one.

Matthew Verkler

[Sanjin Jukic]

We will start taking orders next week when I send out the newsletter with details.
I don't mean to sound like Jannard here...
But details will change (for the better) and expect delays. ;)
For example, we are changing the focus gear from delrin to aluminum.
Little details but nothing major.
As I mentioned in previous posts, our supply is slow but steady.
I got bored last night.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3491895368_213445d559.jpg

Great!

After that would be nice to have rehoused Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 and Tamron 28-105mm f/2.8 and with those three light weight zooms (each zoom is less than 1 kilo) you could cover the range from 11mm to 105mm @ f/2.8 for R1.

Impressive.

I will show here my test example about that 3 zooms on my R1 soon.

[Matthew Duclos]

For a suggestion, maybe you should make the focus ring wider, to cover the Tokina rubber ring... will probably look more professional?

As noted in the previous post, the Focus Gear is being changed to aluminum and will cover the rubber. No worries.

[Matthew Duclos]

Great!

After that would be nice to have rehoused Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 and Tamron 28-105mm f/2.8 and with those three light weight zooms (each zoom is less than 1 kilo) you could cover the range from 11mm to 105mm @ f/2.8 for R1.


Not likely.. The lenses you listed are not stable throughout the zoom range.
Granted, the Tokina isn't perfect... But it's much better than the 17-35 and has a much shorter range.
A lens such as that would require a complete re-house. I'm not saying it won't happen... It's just not on our drawing board at the moment.

[Paul Hazlett]

How 'bout "Bloody Wide"?

Whatever it's named, I want one.

Matthew Verkler

Heh heh, I like that!! blood is red and the lens is Bloody wide!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

Not likely.. The lenses you listed are not stable throughout the zoom range.
Granted, the Tokina isn't perfect... But it's much better than the 17-35 and has a much shorter range.
A lens such as that would require a complete re-house. I'm not saying it won't happen... It's just not on our drawing board at the moment.

Nobody's perfect.

But have a look at those three "non-perfect" still lens (all f2/2.8)options here>>> (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=413789#post413789)

[Matthew Duclos]

If we were going to re-house a set of zooms to complete a specific range, it would be...
Nikon
12-24
24-70
70-200

That way you cover 12-200. But like I said, those would require a complete rehouse similar to Stuarts Ruby lens.
Far more in depth and expensive.
We are trying to keep the cost of our conversions low and appeal to every day shooters.

[Sanjin Jukic]

If we were going to re-house a set of zooms to complete a specific range, it would be...
Nikon
12-24
24-70
70-200

That way you cover 12-200. But like I said, those would require a complete rehouse similar to Stuarts Ruby lens.
Far more in depth and expensive.
We are trying to keep the cost of our conversions low and appeal to every day shooters.

Great!

[Roberto Lequeux]

Nice looking poster. Covering the focus ring will indeed make it look a bit more pro. Though I don't care either way, the numbers are there, so are the images. I just wish I had a chance to check it out in person.

Maybe when the time comes I'll pay you guys a visit and as it turns out my sister is moving from Florida to Thousand Oaks... which puts you on the way there, a great excuse to pester you like you wouldn't believe. j/k :thumbsup:


Are those actual T stops? Does T2.8=f2.8 on this lens? Is that possible? Thanks

Did we miss an answer to this question?

I'd love to know the actual T stop, even if it were T3, people are not going to freak out. Or at least know if there will be an actual T scale on the ring. As far as I remember it wasn't directly addressed yet.

[Matthew Duclos]

Did we miss an answer to this question?

I'd love to know the actual T stop, even if it were T3, people are not going to freak out. Or at least know if there will be an actual T scale on the ring. As far as I remember it wasn't directly addressed yet.[/QUOTE]

I'm waiting to put it on a T-Stop bench and get a concrete reading.
The marks on the lens I brought to NAB (as well as the one in the photo) are for the prototype only. The scale will be marked in T-stops.

[Matthew Duclos]

Maybe when the time comes I'll pay you guys a visit and as it turns out my sister is moving from Florida to Thousand Oaks... which puts you on the way there, a great excuse to pester you like you wouldn't believe. j/k :thumbsup:


You're welcome to stop by.
Thousand Oaks is only about a 20 minute drive (pending traffic) from our shop.

[George A.]

This image shows the lens set at 11mm. I marked where 5K coverage is.
The image just barely covers to 5K and we are looking into cutting back some more of the front housing to see if that's the wide angle coverage limitation.



Any news on this? Thanks!

[Matthew Duclos]

Any news on this? Thanks!

Tokina did a great job with their coverage and baffles.
It seems that the front element baffle and housing are EXACTLY where the image circle begins to clip. So reducing the front housing will not gain any coverage. Still covers 5k (or whatever RED decides to call it) from 12-16mm just fine

[Alexander Christ]

Still covers 5k (or whatever RED decides to call it) from 12-16mm just fine

5K on Mysterium-X or Monstro?

[Matthew Duclos]

5K on Mysterium-X or Monstro?

I should re-phrase that...
The image circle grows drastically when you zoom to the telephoto end.
At 11mm the image circle is 32mm.
At 12mm the image circle is 34mm.
And so on... at 16mm the image circle is 43mm (full frame)

[Alexander Christ]

Perfect description, thanks.

[Mike Prevette]

Hehehe, He said telephoto.

[Matthew Duclos]

Hehehe, He said telephoto.

Haha. Yes.... It's very wide...
I didn't want to confuse people by describing it as the "long" end.

[George A.]

Matthew - do you think the Tokina will cover 5K in 16:9 mode without vignetting? You said it almost covers regular 5K.

[Matt Uhry]

In another thread Sanjin mentioned that he thought the Tokina 11-16 breathed... I found myself thinking that I did not see much breathing. Here's a test I shot. 11mm Rack from 12 inches to infinity and back. f2.8, 1/250 shutter to compensate for the light.

http://mattuhry.com/reduserimages/11mmf2-8_rack.mov

That's an impressive lack of breathing...the focus just kind of changes...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Matthew Duclos]

Well done Matt.
My words are always backed up by your footage.
Thanks for the beta testing.

[Mark Pedersen]

In another thread Sanjin mentioned that he thought the Tokina 11-16 breathed... I found myself thinking that I did not see much breathing. Here's a test I shot. 11mm Rack from 12 inches to infinity and back. f2.8, 1/250 shutter to compensate for the light.

http://mattuhry.com/reduserimages/11mmf2-8_rack.mov

That's an impressive lack of breathing...the focus just kind of changes...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com


That's definitely impressive. Thanks!

M

[Sanjin Jukic]

In another thread Sanjin mentioned that he thought the Tokina 11-16 breathed... I found myself thinking that I did not see much breathing. Here's a test I shot. 11mm Rack from 12 inches to infinity and back. f2.8, 1/250 shutter to compensate for the light.

http://mattuhry.com/reduserimages/11mmf2-8_rack.mov

That's an impressive lack of breathing...the focus just kind of changes...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com


Matt,

I would say that Tikona at has a bit of breathing that I found at 15mm.

Also I would say that Tokina 11-16mm has an excellent price/performance lens value.

From 11mm to 16mm is useful for landscapes and from 14mm-16mm for indoor shooting.

Also Mattew Duclos added that from 12mm is useful for RED's 5K.

Amazing!

Here is my breathing test example for download at _H_2K>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Tokina11-16breathing.mov)

[Matthew Duclos]

Now accepting pre-orders.
Details: http://www.ducloslenses.com/Home/11-16mm.html

(sleep is for the weak)

[Simon N]

Just got your email.... to clarify, is the total price $3995 or $2995?

[Matthew Duclos]

The total is $2,995.
Just under $3k as promised.
The balance part was supposed to be the total... Minor mistake.

[Guy]

Is there going to be a spot on this lens to tape on focus marks?

[Beth Wesley]

The image circle changes throughout the zoom range.
It's originally a DX format lens which covers the RED One sensor just fine.
Here's a quick little (childish) illustration.
(before I get slammed for crappy images, these were taken with my phone...
the distortion is not from the Tokina, it's from my phone taking pictures at an angle... Back to business.)

This image shows the lens set at 11mm. I marked where 5K coverage is.
The image just barely covers to 5K and we are looking into cutting back some more of the front housing to see if that's the wide angle coverage limitation.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3482674427_60d2810c18.jpg

Next is the lens set at 16mm. As you can see, it covers well beyond 5K almost covering the 43.27mm FF35 frame.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3343/3482674863_313db6b9b9.jpg

So now you've seen its full coverage. And even with the very minor vignette at 11mm, it covers 5K entirely at 12mm and beyond.


Matthew,

I'm looking at the image that you posted here and your still vignetting the 5k. The coverage of your lens is 18mm by 26mm the full frame is 24mm by 36mm. Also, I see quite a bit of pin cushion distortion on the edges. If you change the front distance to get rid of your vignetting, you will gain the format but you will loose the 11mm end. If you can remember the 8mm Nikkor did not cover academy, however Open Himer Camera extended the front focus group so the lens would cover the academy format, but in the process of doing this, the 8mm lens became approximately a 10mm lens.

Beth

[Matthew Duclos]

Matthew,

I'm looking at the image that you posted here and your still vignetting the 5k. The coverage of your lens is 18mm by 26mm the full frame is 24mm by 36mm. Also, I see quite a bit of pin cushion distortion on the edges. If you change the front distance to get rid of your vignetting, you will gain the format but you will loose the 11mm end. If you can remember the 8mm Nikkor did not cover academy, however Open Himer Camera extended the front focus group so the lens would cover the academy format, but in the process of doing this, the 8mm lens became approximately a 10mm lens.

Beth


This has all been discussed in this thread already. Thank you for your notes.
I am well aware of the vignetting and have made it VERY clear that it does so at 11mm only.

[XiaoSu Han]

Field of view question:

If someone would make a cine lens - There is no Cooke S4 11mm, but let's say Cooke S4 12mm - would the FOV of the 12mm be the same as the FOV of that lens at 12mm?

I know that a 50mm lens is a 50mm lens is a 50mm lens, but in regards of crop factor etc. just wanted to be sure.

[Matthew Duclos]

Depends on a lot of things. Sensor/film size. Aspect ratio. Etc...

[XiaoSu Han]

So my basic question is:

Does the 12mm Cooke S4 and the 12mm mark on this lens have the same FOV on a RED ONE at 2:1?