New lens rumors 3/15/2009 (a summary)

[Evin Grant]

I though it might be a good idea to start a sticky thread with all the new glass thats seems poised to raid our bank accounts in the next 90 days or so. Here's the info I've been able to gather...

Primes...

Red T1.8 available "soon" 25, 35, 50, 85 & 100mm to start 18mm and some others coming after.

Isco announced lenses and 1.33 anamorphic attachment (Probably Lagunn's T 1.9 primes) Delivery unknown, probably announced at NAB.

IBE announced T1.9 primes delivery unknown, probably announced at NAB.

Zeiss "affordable" primes. No solid intel yet but consensus seems to be ZF series glass in PL mount with better barrels. (I'm guessing these are the lenses Mitch Gross has posted about) Delivery Unknown, probably announced at NAB.

Illumina S35 Primes...
By Luma Tech
T1.3, Original designs. Schott glass, made in Russia. Unknown delivery. Unknown NAB status.

Fujinon cinema primes, not much info yet but they are Premium, so probably not in the affordable category.

Zooms...

Angenieux 16-42 Rouge shipping very soon

Matt Uhry's PL re-mounted Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 Proto in development.

2 new PL mount short cinema zooms, T2.8. (I'm under NDA on these) Prototypes to be shown at NAB.

Feel free to update here and I'll amend the list as info surfaces.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Great of you to do this.

[gdv]

Yes,
Lets flood the air with rumors or even with real lenses.
For some reason I think of an old clip I saw from the age of the "French New Wave" in the 1960's in which everyone was holding a camera and singing in french "I have a camera".
Wonder where are going now with all these cameras and lenses?

[Roberto Lequeux]

Yes,
Lets flood the air with rumors or even with real lenses.
For some reason I think of an old clip I saw from the age of the "French New Wave" in the 1960's in which everyone was holding a camera and singing in french "I have a camera".
Wonder where are going now with all these cameras and lenses?

Content and skillz :sarcasm:

[gdv]

Content and skillz :sarcasm:

Guess you mean skills.
Though you were sarcastic you are very right.
however with so many cameras I am not sure if content and skills will be the only factors, I think quantity will play a role too.

[Evin Grant]

Quantity=jobs. We all could use those.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Exactly... quantity reinforces my statement, and really was part of my point.


Guess you mean skills.
Though you were sarcastic you are very right.

No, I meant skillz, as in MAD skills. Mad skills as in "serious skill", because we will need to stand out.

I don't use the smileys based on their names btw, I pick them based on the faces.
I used that one as if to say it was obvious, but not in a rude way.

[laguun]

I though it might be a good idea to start a sticky thread with all the new glass thats seems poised to raid our bank accounts in the next 90 days or so. Here's the info I've been able to gather...

Primes...

Red T1.8 available "soon" 25, 35, 50, 85 & 100mm to start 18mm and some others coming after.

Isco announced lenses and 1.33 anamorphic attachment (Probably Lagunn's T 1.9 primes) Delivery unknown, probably announced at NAB.

IBE announced T1.9 primes delivery unknown, probably announced at NAB.

Zeiss "affordable" primes. No solid intel yet but consensus seems to be ZF series glass in PL mount with better barrels. (I'm guessing these are the lenses Mitch Gross has posted about) Delivery Unknown, probably announced at NAB.

Hi Evin,

regarding the primes, i can spill some info.

The "affordable" zeiss Set:
new prime set, distributed by abelcine, bandpro (and some other fellows). pricerange in the upper 30s. mid-quantities. testing right now. available in quantity after NAB. NDA required.
shots published: none so far.

The "new German Primes" Set:
Forget ISCO/IBE etc for a while, there is much more behind it than just design. pricerange, well, in the €€€€, not the €€,€€€€ space. shipping already to selected customers. high-quantities. manufacturing ramping up right now. Available in quantity right now. NDA required.
shots published: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27629

Yor forgot to mention: Illuminas!
Russian lenses are often somewhat undervalued. These will be pretty clones of the optica-elites, probably at an awesome 1.3 (compared to the german 1.7s). Price will be ~35.000 for 5. NDA required.
shots published: none so far.

red:
as you wrote. NDA probably required.
shots published: a fine testshot of a chart (cant find the thread)

[gdv]

Quantity=jobs. We all could use those.

And where quality will fit in this equation?

[AIO Films]

What about the Elites? Are they still a rumor or are they real?

[gdv]

sorry guys,
Have to go and work on one of these "quantities" jobs, a commercial with a Red and Cooke S4 and Leica Van Diemen, with one of the best DPs I know but will end up like who knows because the post doesn't know what to do with the files.
Lets hope for the best.

[Evin Grant]

You seem a little bitter GDV? What gives? There will always be projects that are less creative than we might prefer, but as a wise DP once told me...

"One for the meal one for the reel."

Sometimes you gotta shoot shit to shoot shinola, you just better know the difference. If you're so lucky to always be able to choose your projects and be able to dictate to your clients what quality is, then please let us know your secret. I have seen more quality work created because of the Red than an other tool since the original DVX100!

[Evin Grant]

The "new German Primes" Set:
Forget ISCO/IBE etc for a while, there is much more behind it than just design. pricerange, well, in the €€€€, not the €€,€€€€ space. shipping already to selected customers. high-quantities. manufacturing ramping up right now. Available in quantity right now. NDA required.
shots published: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27629


So are your primes NOT Isco? If so you should be able to tell me so I can update the OP.

Thanks for reminding me about the Optars.:wink:

[Roberto Lequeux]

(Jobs - Quality) x Quantity = Content^Shit

That makes no sense... I'm just trying to be funny.

[Frank Weeks]

Sometimes you gotta shoot shit to shoot shinola

amen

BTW Evin

If Birger finally delivers their mount with Curt's FF. Well, another option.

I believe the next few weeks, leading up to NAB, are going to be very exciting for those of us looking for new glass.

Thanks for the insight.

[laguun]

So are your primes NOT Isco? If so you should be able to tell me so I can update the OP.

Thanks for reminding me about the Optars.:wink:

well, *cough*, well (points to the sky) "look over there! an butterfly!"...

no honestly, i am not allowed to discuss all the German manufacturers, and these lenses are a result of combined forces.

allow me another 1-2 weeks and i will gladly inform you about all the details.
with a NDA, you can get all the information right now, but these NDAs *will* be enforced.

pointing at websites right now is certainly misleading - and also *hint* unfair to potential competition coming up in the future.

regarding optics and German manufacturers, i can only hint one thing: think big :)

the "new German primes" are here, and i suppose they will be marketleading by end of the year, if not all manufacturers lower their prices by a huge amount. The sets i have got so far (and hey, thats coming from an oldschool angenieux/cooke guy who adores 80/90/00 models of these manufacturers, so dont put me in the strcitly "german made"-camp) make me, for the first time, an tempting alternative offer for the cookes, and i am talking S4s here.

T stop however, 1.3 and below, will be and remain the area where zeiss master primes and russian elites will be unsurpassed - at least until IBC :)

[laguun]

as a wise DP once told me...

"One for the meal one for the reel."


indeed a wise DoP

[gdv]

You seem a little bitter GDV? What gives? There will always be projects that are less creative than we might prefer, but as a wise DP once told me...

"One for the meal one for the reel."

Sometimes you gotta shoot shit to shoot shinola, you just better know the difference. If you're so lucky to always be able to choose your projects and be able to dictate to your clients what quality is, then please let us know your secret. I have seen more quality work created because of the Red than an other tool since the original DVX100!

Thanks Evin for encouraging. Dealing with production I really need that.

[Perry Ho]

Well done EVIN! Keep post more sourcing!!!

All the best

[Mitch Gross]

Interesting list, Evin. Your guess about me is not entirely accurate though. I can say this: Abel will have glass in its booth which will not be anywhere else and has not been seen before NAB.

[Victor Papalucas]

What about Leica Cine Lenses?
I've heard that they are coming soon... Any news about it?

[gdv]

What about Leica Cine Lenses?
I've heard that they are coming soon... Any news about it?

They are not. Leica Cine closed its gates.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Laguun is trying to keep his secret but I can put all 36 German lens makers on the list below

and we can found out later from where was coming this German PL lens "teaser":


A
Agfa
Amigo
Astro Berlin

B
Emil Busch

E
Enna
Ernemann

F
Feinmess
Foth
Friedrich

G
Goerz

I
Isco

K
Kenngott
Kerman
G. A. Krauss

L
Laack
Leica
Leitmeyr
Ludwig

M
Meyer

N
Nettel
Novoflex

P
Pentacon
Plaubel

R
Rietzschel
Rodenstock
Roeschlein - Kreuznach
Rollei
Rüdersdorf

S
Schacht
Schneider - Kreuznach
Staeble
Steiner
Steinheil

V
Voigtländer

Z
Zeiss Ikon
Carl Zeiss

Read more>>> (http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Category:German_lens_makers)

[Mitch Gross]

That is not a complete list.

Not to say that the lenses in question didn't come from one of those manufacturers. I'm just sayin' that there are others in existence in Germany which are not listed.

[Sanjin Jukic]

That is not a complete list.

Not to say that the lenses in question didn't come from one of those manufacturers. I'm just sayin' that there are others in existence in Germany which are not listed.

Mitch,

tell us who missing there and I'll put it in.

The list above is taken from Camerapedia.org (http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Category:German_camera_makers) where you can find also another lists like a camera makers, etc...

[Marc Berger]

Optar Illumina Primes...
T1.3, probably Super Speed copies. Unknown delivery. Unknown NAB status.

Optars are announced as T 1.2 lenses.

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch,

tell us who missing there and I'll put it in.

The list above is taken from Camerapedia.org (http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Category:German_camera_makers) where you can find also another lists like a camera makers, etc...

Well, how about IB/e for a start?

[Brent J. Craig]

Jannard.com shows a rendering of a Red 15-25 T2.8. Has that been mentioned yet?

[Evin Grant]

Updated:
Optar Ilumina is now just Illumina S35 Primes, more info coming today
Fujinon Primes.

[SirGear]

Thanks Evin-

Please see new thread in the Lens Test forum, heading is: Luma Tech Inc. Illlumina S35 Lenses.

Thanks !

[lensmaster]

You did not list Linos on that list although they own Rodenstock.

I am not going to be surprised if that's who made the mystery primes.

They also own alot of other companies and could be the "consortium" of companies mentioned. Just throwing in my guess.

Linos owns Thales in Singapore and Thales makes many of the F/1.0 very complex lenses for the US Army (night vision objectives). So it's conceivable that can make a cine lens.

They also have glass factories in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe.

[martinnoweck]

Linos is a not very well known but good optical company. I bought some glas siemensstars from them two years ago and the quality was outstanding. And I heard rumours that P&S Technik is working together with linos for a set of primes for the si-2k so why not ...?

regards,
martin

[martinnoweck]

http://www.linos.com/pages/home/shop-optik/rodenstock-foto-objektive/digitale-fachfotografie/

[martinnoweck]

maybe this is old news, but i just found a small note in a german camera magazine from november 2007 stating dalsa wants to produce a primeset, light zoom (6-27mm) and a telephoto set - anyone who knows more (shouldn't be hard ...)?

regards,
martin

[lensmaster]

I am near pretty confident it won't be dalsa because I know a little about that particular (non) project. I also know the team that would have done the optics.

Fun to guess. I'll take the RED PRIMES though...

[Mitch Gross]

Ahahahahahaha

(pulls self off the floor and catches breath)

Wanna know about those Dalsa lenses? They made a set. Pretty glass. Worked for the larger-than Super-35 sensor (I think they had an image circle of 38mm). As a test project they also reworked three of them to cover the massive Phantom 65 sensor's 60mm image circle (yes, 60mm).

Then Dalsa cancelled it's Digital Cinema program and shut down their camera rental facility. So no more reason to have lenses for the Dalsa sensor or the Phantom 65 sensor, at least coming from Dalsa. I'm pretty sure I know where the lenses for the Dalsa camera wet. I know exactly where the prototype lenses for the Phantom 65 went.

They're in a case next to my desk.

[OptiTek]

Do you mean the Leica set that Dan Tzatzaki(sorry Dan if I misspelled your last name) and Eric Pedersen made?
Very pretty, old school craftsmanship. The also were T1.4s if I remember correctly. Worked great on Dalsa. The only issue was that time and cost were not a factor since they were meant for rental only- Panavision model...
Jacek Zakowicz, OptiTek.org:cute:

[Mitch Gross]

Yes, but I don't think any of the series opened to T1.4. More like T1.9. These prototypes are T2 and T2.8, but that's understandable considering the huge image circle.

Pretty sure Dan's last name begins with an 'S' but I always got the rest of the spelling wrong too!

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

And I heard rumours that P&S Technik is working together with linos for a set of primes for the si-2k so why not ...?

regards,
martin

Linos made the optics for the excellent P+S Technik eyepieces for the older "black" ARRI cameras.

There are so many rumors out now. IF all these lenses actually get made, the market will become saturated and there will be trouble. Expect a lot of these designs to never reach production. Things will be shaking out of the next few months.

No one wants to be in business to loose money. If it even looks like a costly venture will be a money looser, then it will be cancelled.

Just like oil production and refining has been reduced to respond to the reduced demand of the world economy. Prices fell to a certain point and then bounced.

Eventually all bubbles burst and all busts bottom.

The question is: At what stage of the cycle are we now?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Linos made the optics for the excellent P+S Technik eyepieces for the older "black" ARRI cameras.

There are so many rumors out now. IF all these lenses actually get made, the market will become saturated and there will be trouble. Expect a lot of these designs to never reach production. Things will be shaking out of the next few months.

No one wants to be in business to loose money. If it even looks like a costly venture will be a money looser, then it will be cancelled.

Just like oil production and refining has been reduced to respond to the reduced demand of the world economy. Prices fell to a certain point and then bounced.



Eventually all bubbles burst and all busts bottom.

The question is: At what stage of the cycle are we now?

funny how time repeats himself...heard the same argument about 35 mm pl mount cameras 3 years ago

[martinnoweck]

Ahahahahahaha

(pulls self off the floor and catches breath)

Wanna know about those Dalsa lenses? They made a set. Pretty glass. Worked for the larger-than Super-35 sensor (I think they had an image circle of 38mm). As a test project they also reworked three of them to cover the massive Phantom 65 sensor's 60mm image circle (yes, 60mm).

Then Dalsa cancelled it's Digital Cinema program and shut down their camera rental facility. So no more reason to have lenses for the Dalsa sensor or the Phantom 65 sensor, at least coming from Dalsa. I'm pretty sure I know where the lenses for the Dalsa camera wet. I know exactly where the prototype lenses for the Phantom 65 went.

They're in a case next to my desk.

mitch,

i hope i didn't cause a deja vu ;-)

thanks for your insight information.

regards,
martin

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

funny how time repeats himself...heard the same argument about 35 mm pl mount cameras 3 years ago

Not sure what you mean here. What argument?

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

I think there's going to be a lot of disappointment this year after NAB.

ARRI even cancelled the Hofbrauhaus party.

I will be sitting this year out.

[Fred Salaff]

Gregory Mirand, designer and developer of the Super 35 Illuminas (as well as the S16 Optar Illuminas) will be showing these lenses at the Hilton Hotel. The suite number will be announced shortly and I will post it here.

Test results to date have been gratifying and sure to raise great interest.

Note that the Optar Illuminas are back in full production and sets are available for delivery beginning April 20. Price is $16,900 for the set of 6 lenses.

[nacamera]

Maybe this has already been suggested, but is there a chance that Red's new primes (the ones supposedly as good or better than Cooke S4's) can be sent to a respected unaffiliated lens tech? My vote would be Duclos Lenses in LA. I would like to hear Duclos' opinion on these new lenses when they are compared to some of the industries other premier lenses (Ultra Primes, S4/i, Master Primes, etc.)

Any chance of this happening?

[Matthew Duclos]

Maybe this has already been suggested, but is there a chance that Red's new primes (the ones supposedly as good or better than Cooke S4's) can be sent to a respected unaffiliated lens tech? My vote would be Duclos Lenses in LA. I would like to hear Duclos' opinion on these new lenses when they are compared to some of the industries other premier lenses (Ultra Primes, S4/i, Master Primes, etc.)

Any chance of this happening?

Hello Bob,
Nice to see you here on REDUSER. How are your lenses holding up?
I would love to include the RED primes in the S.A.L.T. test taking place around NAB.
I expect great things from RED in the field of optics.

[nacamera]

Hello Bob,
Nice to see you here on REDUSER. How are your lenses holding up?
I would love to include the RED primes in the S.A.L.T. test taking place around NAB.
I expect great things from RED in the field of optics.

Matt,
Everything is as good as can be expected (with the slow economy). Lenses are holding up nicely (thanks to you guys).
If you get a chance to test out the new Red lenses, please make sure to share your unbiased thoughts with the world!

[Joe Carney]

Gregory Mirand, designer and developer of the Super 35 Illuminas (as well as the S16 Optar Illuminas) will be showing these lenses at the Hilton Hotel. The suite number will be announced shortly and I will post it here.

Test results to date have been gratifying and sure to raise great interest.

Note that the Optar Illuminas are back in full production and sets are available for delivery beginning April 20. Price is $16,900 for the set of 6 lenses.

I remember when they sold for less than 12K USD. What makes them worth 5K more now?

[Charles Pickel]

Regretably, the cost of the S16 Illuminas has approximately doubled from the Russian manufacturer. We are a little reluctant to double the list price however.
So US$ 16,900.00 is the compromise.

Come to our suite during NAB and apply for "show pricing"

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28852

As sales volumes for all 16mm/2K equipment fades, it gets pretty hard to produce cost-effectively. Priced the new Arri/Zeiss Ultra16 Primes lately ?
In a bid to reduce cost/price, we may soon discontinue the 2K format 50mm T1.3 lens, as it is redundant to the new S35mm 4K format 50mm T1.3 from LOMO. Stay tuned for more changes and announcements.

[Ryan Avery]

Schneider Optics will be showing the new Cine-Xenar prime set by Schneider-Kreuznach at NAB. These are made in Germany at Schneider-Kreuznach's ISCO Division.

Set includes:
25mm T2.2, 35mm T2.1, 50mm T2.0, 75mm T2.0, 95mm T2.0. Available in PL and Canon EOS mounts. Nikon mounts available for 50mm - 95mm lenses. Expected professional user net of $22,000 USD. The first production units will be available for purchase/delivery in late April 2010.

An 18mm model will be avialable later in 2010 for seperate purchase.

Come see us at NAB booth #C10337.

Web info on www.schneideroptics.com (http://www.schneideroptics.com) in the coming days.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

[Brian Broz]

Hi Ryan,

Hope you guys are having a great NAB.
Are there any updates, or product photos (even from the booth) regarding these new Prime lenses?
Many here on Reduser are anxious and interested in an alternate to the Zeiss Compact Primes v2.
Cheers,

Brian Broz
PS- Give David Contreras my regards!

[Rob Castiglione]

What Brian says is very true.

[David Rasberry]

Regretably, the cost of the S16 Illuminas has approximately doubled from the Russian manufacturer. We are a little reluctant to double the list price however.
So US$ 16,900.00 is the compromise.

Come to our suite during NAB and apply for "show pricing"

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28852

As sales volumes for all 16mm/2K equipment fades, it gets pretty hard to produce cost-effectively. Priced the new Arri/Zeiss Ultra16 Primes lately ?
In a bid to reduce cost/price, we may soon discontinue the 2K format 50mm T1.3 lens, as it is redundant to the new S35mm 4K format 50mm T1.3 from LOMO. Stay tuned for more changes and announcements.

Maybe the emerging market for 16mm imager sized digital cams like the Ikonoscope, SI2k and Red Scarlet will help with production volume and prices down the road. Is there any movement to redesign/repurpose the S16 Illuminas for this market?

[Fred Salaff]

The super 16 Illuminas are a perfect match for 2k applications and high speed videography. They are in stock and ready to be shipped. (PL mount).