Andromeda B-Camera

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I did a search for Andromeda, I didn't find much..

So I thought I might start a discussion on it, as I have one on order (a killer deal on a used unit about $4,600 after mac mini purchase, usually it goes for like 6 or 7 grand brand new). I was originally waiting for the Pocket Red, but given all the mystery, the fact that Red is still working hard at pumping out the flagship cam, and hearing that development probably is still in its infancy, I decided to go back and reconsider the Andromeda.

You almost NEVER find a used Andromeda unit, I'm getting only the second one that's ever popped up on DVXuser's marketplace forum. Needless to say, owners apparently have a good reason to keep them. I spent about 2 months researching the camera, its ups, its downs, etc.. The footage/frame grabs is what won me over. Here's two great looking jpg frame grabs:

http://www.reel-stream.com/magik_test.php/MBennett_EyeFront_CC.tif?type(jpg)
http://www.reel-stream.com/magik_test.php/rs_1115cc.tif?type(jpg)

Given the sheer power the user has over the camera, and its uncompressed recording, $4,600 is a great bargain for a power user DP like myself. I was also tired of disappointing HVX and Varicam footage, both of which don't hold up to extreme posting nearly as nice (Yeah, Varicam with HD prime is awesome, but great glass won't change mucho compression and I never had the paintbox option either. I like CC in post, more controlled, safer too you know, but harder to do with compressed footage and still look clean at full res).

So given the quality the unit pumps out, does anyone think it would make a nice lower budget Red B-cam. Especially for films finishing in 2K? I upresed the Raw frames, and I have to say, still looked great.

I plan on marketing this system in the DC area as an option for low budget special effects films, and serious but super low budget short and feature length films. Commercials also.

So what do you guys think?

PS: I went against the Hydra because it will most likely not have as much latitude as the Andromeda (feels like editing lower res D70 photos to be honest :biggrin: ).

[Poi Boy]

Isn't andromeda tethered ? I would say the reason you don't run into any used units is that there are very few in use.
Aloha
-A

[Craig Ryan]

Andromeda is certainly a great idea for B-roll; but even more ideal would be the HVX version call Hydra which will give you native 2k, and possibly the same DR increase the DVX got with Andromeda, plus 60fps 2k FTW. But 4 grand sounds like a good deal on an Andromeda setup ready to go. A working Hydra setup has been estimated up in the 8-10k range.

EDIT: good point, it is tethered, but with a Mac mini some people have successfully made it portable with a backpack system.

Oops, didn't see your PS at the bottom, my bad hehe. It probably won't have as much DR, but it would be nice to have a B cam that can get that one shot car crash in 60fps wouldn't it?

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Yeah, err. well... depends on how u set it up:

http://www.reel-stream.com/magik_test.php/cam%20trans%20full%20LIST%20copy.jpg?type(jpg)

Hope I can be just as cool :P

LOL, it is a rare camera, but then again, that kind of performance at that price point, given its drawbacks, its still very nice for someone like myself without the dough for a Red One.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Andromeda is certainly a great idea for B-roll; but even more ideal would be the HVX version call Hydra which will give you native 2k, and possibly the same DR increase the DVX got with Andromeda, plus 60fps 2k FTW. But 4 grand sounds like a good deal on an Andromeda setup ready to go. A working Hydra setup has been estimated up in the 8-10k range.

EDIT: good point, it is tethered, but with a Mac mini some people have successfully made it portable with a backpack system.

I kinda think the other way on dynamic range, the photosites are smaller, and Reel Stream says on the site themselves that Andromeda will probably still beat the Hydra in that area.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I just realized the links aren't working right :( Surf over to www.reel-stream.com and check out the gallery for high res frame grabs and that way cool hand held rig shot. By the way, the gallery is broken into sections, so read the links carefully.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Yeah High speed is nice, but I rarely ever use it.

[Craig Ryan]

Yeah, I'm going to be upgrading to Andromeda hopefully if I end up going the macbook pro rout for my new editing system; hell with the new 17" 1920-1200 screens, it'll be a nice monitor too. I totally agree though, it's an awesome tool for us indies.

[Poi Boy]

Last time I did any serious looking at andromeda was about a year ago. At the time they had serious software issues, have they been worked out ?
Aloha
-A

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Did you hear about xLut and the possible real time color correction off the 12 bit sensors? Now thats super amazing for $4,600.... Actually you can create a LUT in xLut and then apply it at capture to create your desired look, but doing it in real time is gonna be insane if Juan and his team can make it happen.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Last time I did any serious looking at andromeda was about a year ago. At the time they had serious software issues, have they been worked out ?
Aloha
-A

Oh yeah, I was sent a raw green screen frame. Holy crap. Killed my varicam footage (which I shot myself). Its a very upgradeable system. Basically the andro mod just opens up access to the data. The software is where a lot of the magic happens, as it gets better (its already way better than its beta version), so will your footage. I'll have to post that frame grab.

[Craig Ryan]

please do :)

[ericyoung]

I just realized the links aren't working right :( Surf over to www.reel-stream.com and check out the gallery for high res frame grabs and that way cool hand held rig shot. By the way, the gallery is broken into sections, so read the links carefully.

The links work if you edit out the "?type(jpg)" which appear to have tagged on the end of your links!

[Jeremy Hughes]

PS: I went against the Hydra because it will most likely not have as much latitude as the Andromeda (feels like editing lower res D70 photos to be honest :biggrin: ).

I thought the CCDs in the DVX100 were 720x480 and the CCDs in the HVX200 were 960x540. That's not really that much different.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I thought the CCDs in the DVX100 were 720x480 and the CCDs in the HVX200 were 960x540. That's not really that much different.

True, but they still are smaller in size. I think the real reason for the HVX having 14 bit sensors (DVX is 12 bit) has a lot to do with the physics of those smaller potosites. They are more prone to noise, and yield less latitude, so they are trying to make up for the loss by over sampling the signal. Good idea, but I think they just hit the point of diminishing returns. Like they say, physics is physics...

[Ryan Manes]

Someone care to elaborate how they are getting 2k res out of a 960x540 chip set

[donatello b]

they actually state " 2k HD NATIVE resolution" ...
perhaps something to do with the new math or vodoo or 3x 960x540 or panasonic only uses 960x540 of a 2k CCD ? or ?????????????
wonder why panasonic never stated 2k res ?

[Chris Nuzzaco]

It's pixel shifting. It's not enlarging, pixel shift is way different. From what I understand, the sensors are physically offset, so they see different areas of the shot, sorta like a bayer sensor's red channel only sees a certain portion of the scene. Only hydra is 2k. Andromeda is just shy of 1080, but up scales to 1080 very well in post. Just take a look at the high res still frames. Put one in After Effects and upscale it. Pretty damn good.