Can RED ONE do Infrared? [Archive]

okcomputer33

03-24-2009, 06:56 PM

:nerd:http://reduser.net/forum/images/smilies/red/confused.gif

I was told that if you buy a red camera you have the option of removing a film from the sensor that will allow to you to shoot infrared, is this true? and if so...

can red just build an infrared sensor that you can switch in the camera, instead of having two bodies you end up with a body and two sensors.

It sounds crazy cool, but is something that I was hoping you redusers could help me investigate.

Go Go gadget exit, thank you.

Zakaree Sandberg

03-24-2009, 07:05 PM

if you remove the IR element in front of the sensor you will end up with infrared shooting..
but.. this will ruin your warranty, and will not be a fix you could do.

never heard about that option on a normal basis. maybe something you can talk to red about if you need it specially done...

Jarred Land

03-24-2009, 07:54 PM

we will do this if you want... custom order. Warranty will be in tact as long as we do the switching as its not an easy swap.

Jim McKinney

03-24-2009, 07:54 PM

I think it would be totally cool and I'm willing to spend $18K for it.

okcomputer33

03-25-2009, 03:50 PM

Awsome! this is cool news. Jarred is there such a sensor in your lab that one can do a test on?

reader1

03-26-2009, 06:30 PM

shoot infrared image? they are very different sensors!

Dylan Macleod, CSC

03-26-2009, 06:32 PM

with the existing configuration you can get this...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19071&highlight=infrared

jbeale

03-26-2009, 09:47 PM

Normal silicon sensors (both CCD and CMOS) have near-IR sensitivity out to around 950 nm, and you can use them to get the same bright-foliage, dark-sky type infrared photos that people have traditionally done with IR-sensitive film. In fact, for normal visible-light use you have to use a strong IR-cut filter to get good color response from silicon sensors, and that's the filter people are talking about possibly removing. (Since it's right next to the sensor, you could easily do serious damage to the camera if you aren't very skilled in that type of work.)

Mid- and long-wave IR, such as used for thermal imagers that reveal body heat in complete darkness, would require a different type of sensor, like a platinum silicide or mercury cadmium telluride. Cameras using those sensors are special-purpose, relatively low-resolution, relatively uncommon, and more expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PtSi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HgCdTe

okcomputer33

03-27-2009, 05:23 PM

clints stuff was exactly what i was hoping to see, thanks for the link to the post, very help full:wink:

ALLSTAR

03-28-2009, 11:41 AM

My Infrared shot: http://www.vimeo.com/3896707

Jarred Land

03-28-2009, 12:10 PM

Harry Capota

04-02-2009, 05:08 PM

My Infrared shot: http://www.vimeo.com/3896707

Wow ALLSTAR! How did you achieve this?

brian mcclatchy

06-18-2009, 12:00 PM

We have a dedicated camera at RED converted to IR available for shoots for testing... If you want to Rent it for a shoot, we can make it available through a rental house... or of course you can have your camera modified.

I am interested in shooting wildlife (bats) with and IR camera using only an infrared light source so that the light is nearly invisible. Have you shot any tests using an infrared light source and if so is it possible to see some sample footage somewhere?

dodi82

06-23-2009, 02:01 AM

We have a dedicated camera at RED converted to IR available for shoots for testing... If you want to Rent it for a shoot, we can make it available through a rental house... or of course you can have your camera modified.

Hi Jarred,

please tell me where I can rent a RED converted to IR available.
It would be great if this is available in germany or via shipping.

Kind regards
Adam

M_Sanderson

07-09-2009, 10:20 AM

I am also looking for an IR camera for wildlife...
If i get my RED modified can I still shoot normal? or will it become an IR camera only???

If its the latter does anyone suggest a certain camera for IR, to mix with RED footage during the day... something to rent or buy?

Cheers
Michael

Tom Lowe

11-09-2010, 02:07 PM

My Infrared shot: http://www.vimeo.com/3896707

How was this done?

Gavin Greenwalt

11-15-2010, 10:48 PM

How was this done?

Maybe the middle section where they fidget with the filter can provide some clues? Just an infrared/near infrared filter perhaps? Then again you would need a filter if it was modified or not. so maybe no help at all. :| If so good thing MX has a lot of sensitivity.

Dominic Jones

11-16-2010, 05:49 AM

Well, all sensors tend to let through a little IR despite the inbuilt IR-cut filter, and as we know this is true of the R1...

If you put a visible light filter (confusingly often called an Infrared filter in the photography world - the designation is either R72 or 89B) in front of the lens then you will be able to take IR images without modifying your camera, assuming that there is enough IR to get a sensible exposure.

Daytime shots with a long-ish exposure (such as a timelapse) might well be possible without modification - perhaps this is how Allstar took those images, and would explain the filter fidgeting, as Gavin puts it!

May not be the case, but should be possible in the right conditions. Those visible light filters are super cheap, so would be easy to test. As it happens, I've got one to go with an IR-modified 550D, so I could shoot a test, but I'm crazy busy at the moment - if no-one else gets around to it in the next few weeks I'll have a play and post up the results...

Mark Phelan

11-16-2010, 06:18 AM

I did a test a few days ago to see what I'd get with a standard configuration RED camera. Mysterium sensor, nothing special, just point and shoot, this is what I got: http://web.me.com/phelanx/rough/ir.html

The MX would do a better job I presume with it being more sensitive. What this does tell me however is there is much more to be obtained if I wanted to pursue the idea. If it was shot when the foliage was green as opposed to dead or already fallen off the trees, it would have given a better result. The grass has already gone dormant and turned brown. The oak tree on the left has not lost most of its leaves yet, so it gives a good idea of what could be. Anyway, it's a pretty quick grab for discussion purposes.

Tom Lowe

11-27-2010, 01:43 PM

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8440/tominfra.jpg

I am currently shooting with Red's "Infra" camera right now in Louisiana. It's a lot of fun shooting on this format.

Elsie N

11-27-2010, 01:59 PM

Can the Infra shoot into a fog and pick out a human or animal that is otherwise unseen by the naked eye? If so, would I be able to tell what kind of animal or recognize the human?

ericyoung

11-27-2010, 02:35 PM

ericyoung

11-27-2010, 02:36 PM

I am currently shooting with Red's "Infra" camera right now in Louisiana. It's a lot of fun shooting on this format.

Damn Tom, you're getting to play with some fun equipment in the US! :drool:

Brandon J.F.

11-27-2010, 04:01 PM

We have a dedicated camera at RED converted to IR available for shoots for testing... If you want to Rent it for a shoot, we can make it available through a rental house... or of course you can have your camera modified.

Will it be possible to buy an IR modified Scarlet 8X fixed?

I am currently shooting with Red's "Infra" camera right now in Louisiana. It's a lot of fun shooting on this format.

I can't wait to see what you shoot :)

Deanan

11-27-2010, 04:05 PM

Tom, are you shooting with or without an visible light cutoff fllter?

Mark Phelan

11-27-2010, 04:12 PM

Looks good, although the MX extra sensitivity might be offset by it's better IR filtering!

That's a very good point. Wonder if RED's Infra camera is Mysterium or MX?

ericyoung

11-27-2010, 06:31 PM

That's a very good point. Wonder if RED's Infra camera is Mysterium or MX?

Tom's picture doesn't show "Mysterium X" engraved on the CF side module - so I'd guess it's not M-X. But with the internal sensor IR filter removed, it'll be picking up all the Infra Red available.

ALLSTAR

11-27-2010, 06:55 PM

Wow ALLSTAR! How did you achieve this?

Just put a Cokin IR filter on lens
http://www.cokin.fr/ico6-INFRARED-FILTER.html

Tom Lowe

11-27-2010, 07:00 PM

Tom, are you shooting with or without an visible light cutoff fllter?

I'm shooting with no filters on. Should I have one? I am trying to match the look of the deep B&W conversion from lifepixel on my 5D2 for timelapse.

Jesus, I am looking through the footage I shot today... HOLY SH#T... it's just beautiful. Any type of vegetation just pops. I was shooting this hanging Spanish moss on cypress trees today, and it's incredibly beautiful at 40fps 3K with the 8mm Ultra Prime.

The sensor is Mysterium.

Mark Phelan

11-27-2010, 07:50 PM

I'm shooting with no filters on. Should I have one? I am trying to match the look of the deep B&W conversion from lifepixel on my 5D2 for timelapse.

Jesus, I am looking through the footage I shot today... HOLY SH#T... it's just beautiful. Any type of vegetation just pops. I was shooting this hanging Spanish moss on cypress trees today, and it's incredibly beautiful at 40fps 3K with the 8mm Ultra Prime.

The sensor is Mysterium.

It would be interesting to see if you would achieve even more stunning results with a filter on, i.e. mo' better. Or I wonder if it would just make your exposure tougher since you're getting good results now?

Would love to see an example of what you're getting. How about posting a still if you can?

Tom Lowe

11-27-2010, 08:11 PM

I'm shooting this footage for Godfrey Reggio's new film, so I can't post it, unfortunately.

Brandon J.F.

11-27-2010, 08:30 PM

I'm shooting this footage for Godfrey Reggio's new film, so I can't post it, unfortunately.

That is one hell of a gig. Well done. I didn't know he was working on a new film.

ericyoung

11-27-2010, 08:47 PM

I'm shooting with no filters on. Should I have one? I am trying to match the look of the deep B&W conversion from lifepixel on my 5D2 for timelapse.

Jesus, I am looking through the footage I shot today... HOLY SH#T... it's just beautiful. Any type of vegetation just pops. I was shooting this hanging Spanish moss on cypress trees today, and it's incredibly beautiful at 40fps 3K with the 8mm Ultra Prime.

The sensor is Mysterium.

You don't have to use any filters, but if you use an Infra Red pass filter (but which cuts visible light spectrum) such as the one mentioned by Allstar above, then the image you get will just be formed by Infra Red light with no visible light contribution. In the right circumstances, this will make your IR photography "pop" even more!

In the "old days", such a filter would have made focusing and exposure a bit of a challenge because your optical viewfinder would have been black, but with electronic WYSIWYG displays, you're good to go. :smile:

Tom Lowe

11-27-2010, 08:52 PM

Where can I get one of these IR pass filters? My mattebox can handle 6x6 or 4x5.6.

KETCH ROSSi

11-27-2010, 09:25 PM

Where can I get one of these IR pass filters? My mattebox can handle 6x6 or 4x5.6.

I use this: http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm for Photography, have not looked for 6x6 or 4x5's.

From my buddy over at LLS
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/images41/_MG_9972-Edit-2.jpg

ericyoung

11-27-2010, 10:36 PM

I think most IR pass/visible light block filters are made for stills photography, so there are quite a lot of screw in ones up to about 77mm diameter.

Cokin filters Z-Pro series size is 100x100mm (ie almost 4x4") available in US from:
http://www.2filter.com/cokin/cokinzpro.html#5698
Number 7 filter down is the Infrared (89B) 100mm x 100mm
As it's slightly smaller than motion camera filters, and probably a bit thinner too, it may not stay securely in mattebox filter trays, but you could always tape it in with some electricians tape (easier to remove than gaffer).

but Ketch's link looks good if a 77mm or 82mm diameter round filter will cover your lens front.

Deanan

11-28-2010, 12:13 AM

Kodak wratten gels 88A, 87, 87A, 87B, 87C, 89B are good ones to start with. The stills filter companies have a couple different ones.

Each has a different cutoff. 89B starts pretty early in deep red so you get more sensitivity. Many normal NDs can also work as IR pass filters. I used to use unexposed (and processed ) sections of E6 film as an IR pass. It's convenient for covering up light sources like flashes.

There's a few charts here:
http://photo.net/learn/optics/edscott/ir000020.htm

David Wilson

11-28-2010, 01:00 AM

Using a Wratten 87 on a R1M and a side-by-side mirror box rig - still from a work in progress, "The Book of Wisdom and Lies". Shot in the Republic of Georgia, August 2009.

In our experience, the Red 1 make excellent infrared images with some care. We're strongly considering, however, asking the good folks at Red if they would remove the IR-cut filter on our R1 once the Epics ship.

Harry Clark

11-28-2010, 07:26 AM

Tom, you're working with Godfrey Reggio??? You are one lucky dude!
Congratulations. He is a true artist. I'm sure you will give him some great footage, based on your stuff that I have seen. Have fun!
Cheers,
Harry

Tom Lowe

11-28-2010, 11:35 AM

Guys, I would really like to get an additional filter for this camera, if you are saying the IR effect will pop even more. Can anyone tell me where I can get an IR pass filter in 6x6 or 4x5.6 in a HURRY? I only have 3 more days of filming.

The looking I am going after is "Deep Black & White", like this sample photo from LifePixel:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9498/deepbwstraight.jpg

Thanks so much!

David Wilson

11-28-2010, 12:53 PM

Tom, we were just using wratten 3x3 gel filters in a screw on filter holder on Canon lenses. The 87 worked beautifully for us producing very dark sky and white foliage (depending on the light conditions, of course). We should have but didn't test other filters.

Deanan

11-28-2010, 02:01 PM

Tom Lowe

11-28-2010, 04:35 PM

I have a non-IR ND 1.2. I will give that a go... thanks!

Deanan

11-28-2010, 04:41 PM

I have a non-IR ND 1.2. I will give that a go... thanks!

What other filters do you have?

Tom Lowe

12-02-2010, 03:22 PM

Deanan, I used our basic ND 1.2 and it made a HUGE difference! I only wish I had known this during my first two days of filming :(

If I shoot any more on it, I am going to look into getting a proper IR pass filter, even if it needs to be custom made. You guys don't have one of those sitting around at Red do you?