Any word on Akira?

[Brandon Fraley]

Just curious if anyone has heard anything about the live action Akira flick. there was quite a bit of news when they first announced they were doing it, but I don't think I've heard anything since. I also noticed that Ruairi was pretty active here and then kinda fell off the map. Maybe he's knee deep in red leather and mutating cytoplasm? :thumbsup:

[Benni Diez]

http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/02/20/its-official-live-action-akira-confirmed-already-for-2009/

The article is a year old, but let's hope it is still true. I don't expect them to make it for this summer however. But Ruairi sure has the talent, can't wait to see what he does with it.

[Joseph Ward]

I loved that movie! This should be so cool, hope that it lives up to the hype.

[Tom Lowe]

Ruairi has been very quiet on the net. He posts from time to time at c.com, but not often. That could be a good thing if it means he's busy with production, or a bad thing if his project is bogged down. I don't know Akira's current status.

I for one think it's a very risky project. The budget would have to be quite large, and so far, anime live action films have nearly all bombed. Then again, with great risks come great rewards. With a film like this, it's really going to come down to the director, in the same way that Batman Begins and Dark Knight all came down to Nolan. People don't realize just how important the director is to these types of franchise projects. No offense to the guys here who know and work with McG, but this is why I thought McG was a terrible choice for T4. I mean, get somebody with serious talent and a history of serious films in there.

Getting back to Ikira, IMO, there are stronger projects that could translate better from anime/manga to Hollywood. At the very, very top of that list would be a Berserk feature film or series of films. But who knows... if Ruairi really connects with the story, he may be able to pull off something great.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I disagree Tom.

This is where it comes down to a great screenplay. Obviously it's the director's job to ensure he has a great screenplay to shoot. Which it didn't sound like McG was ready to do from the get go... but what made Batman Begins special was that it was a great story with great writing and now that T4 has the Dark Knight writing team on board I have little doubt it's going to be great. After all it was Steven Spielberg which shot all of the Indiana Jones movies... and look how hit and miss those were. Or even more applicable the 3 spiderman movies.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I agree with Gavin. The screenplay is where it's at. And so far, the rumors surrounding AKIRA do not make for a good prognosis. Tom is right that most films taking anime / manga into live action form have bombed. And rightfully so... Most efforts tend to suffer from poor writing and fail to stay true to their core concepts, often alienating the fan base that drove the films to be made in the first place.

I think AKIRA could do very well if the story remained true to the original and only made appropriate updates to "modernize" the political aspects somewhat. Of course, it was all based on a hypothetical future anyway. Obviously the film will need a decent FX budget and strong performances to carry as well. With a good script and producers who care about the film and its legacy, I think attracting good talent and strong performances shouldn't be too tough.

Story is king, always.

[Brandon Fraley]

I personally think there is little hope that it will be good, but I'm still interested in following it, particularly because Ruairi was such an active member of this community.

I love Akira, but besides some big explosions, there's almost nothing commercial about it. My fear is that the budget that it will require will mean that that studio will push for a summer blockbuster approach that will kill all the subtleties that made the story interesting. I just don't see how it cannot.

The appeal of Akira to me is that it's dealing with concepts too large to be properly communicated. The animated film in large part isn't explained, but deliberately so. The change happening to the characters, the politics and to the city itself are so monumental that it defies understanding. In what world will a corporate studio throw $100,000,000 at that?

Damn, I really wanna watch Akira now :) I gotta go see if I can get it on blu ray!

[viktor]

Don't forget that Akira is Manga, comic book from Japan, and I don't think that american/european screenwriter-producer-director can completly understand what Katsuhiro Otomo created. That's why Akira, and mostmanga/anime is so popular on whole world - it is exotic.
When holywood production will give so much money, they will want to change the story and final edit to reach wide audiance=money.
imho it is same b/s as creating Evangelion. Could you imagine Godfather or Thin Red Line as anime?

[Tom Lowe]

There is no way I am going to doubt Ruairi. He has leapfrogged all of us in terms of getting ahead in the business, and he did it through sheer hard work (almost all of it on his own), and a good business sense. So I can only say I did not care the anime version of Akira. If he does pull this off, it would be a huge win.

Regarding Driector vs Screenplay, keep in mind that Nolan wrote or co-wrote those Batman screenplays, so I think my point is 100% valid that these big franchise pictures really, really come down to the director. The director is absolutely key. Which is why I have little hope for T4 being as great as it could be. It's the director who decides whether the script is good enough to shoot.

btw, after suggesting Berserk as a live action film, I've spent the last couple days doing nothing but dreaming up exactly how that would actually work on screen. Now if I just had the same industry juice as Ruairi.... :)

[viktor]

I liked 50% Grey, but I didn't like Silent city. I think Akira is too complex to get it on screen as motion picture, especially for hollywood money with executives behind back.
As goes for directors, even the strongest one have their ups and downs, Ford Coppola with "Jack", Spielberg with everything after "Schindler's list".

[liquidigital]

The writer is Gary Whitta, who wrote the original spec Book of Eli (now being filmed on RED) and who I also have a tremendous amount of admiration for. Not only am I going to give Ruairi the benefit of the doubt, but I'd really like to see him succeed. He worked hard and I always like to see hard work rewarded. I don't think I've seen a short on par visually with Silent City. This has been discussed ad nauseum, but I think it achieved it's goal, which was to function as a visual calling card. Also, I just watched Akira the other day, and there is room for improvement. I won't let nostalgia affect my judgement, as sometimes hardcore fans do. The dialog is dated, overtly anime and certainly wouldn't "work" for a film-going audience. Elements/themes of the story, concept, and the animation, of course, are fantastic. I think we also have to consider that although anime-to-film hasn't always worked in the past, those pics weren't being produced by Appian Way and starring Leonardo DiCaprio. His name will warrant the type of budget it will take to pull Akira off. So... I'm hopeful. Whew. Sorry, three cups of coffee this morning.

[Kholi Hicks]

As long as he breaks the long-running curse of horrid cartoon-to-live-action, anime-to-live-action and video-game-to-life-action I'm game.

How can you mess something like Resident Evil up?

[Brandon Fraley]

those pics weren't being produced by Appian Way and starring Leonardo DiCaprio

whoa whoa whoa, STARRING Leo DiCaprio? I knew he was producing, but is it confirmed he's staring in it? as who? he's too old for any of the gang. I remember hearing somewhere Joseph gordon levitt as Tetsuo, which I think is actually a really interesting choice, not sold on it, but I'm super curious how he'd come off with that dark intensity.

[liquidigital]

Not confirmed Leo is starring- my mistake. But I think levitt would be a great tetsuo. Hope it all works out

[Brandon Fraley]

But I think levitt would be a great tetsuo. Hope it all works out

I know, right? :) I'm really curious how he'd do. I actually really like leo as well, I just can't imagine which role he'd be appropriate for.

[Albert Cheng]

Tom, I think berserk is AMAZING. I'm a huge admirer. But, i have a hard time seeing it translated to a feature film. So much of it is the tone and style which I think a lot would be lost in the translation. Fantasy has been the toughest to full off out of any genre I think. It's just really hard for most people to relate to. I think Akira, being sci fi has a better chance, but the scope is just too big and conceptual that what made the anime good would also be lost. Some things just work better in one medium than another. Of course, I could be wrong and just lack the required imagination.

[Tom Lowe]

Tom, I think berserk is AMAZING. I'm a huge admirer. But, i have a hard time seeing it translated to a feature film. So much of it is the tone and style which I think a lot would be lost in the translation. Fantasy has been the toughest to full off out of any genre I think. It's just really hard for most people to relate to. I think Akira, being sci fi has a better chance, but the scope is just too big and conceptual that what made the anime good would also be lost. Some things just work better in one medium than another. Of course, I could be wrong and just lack the required imagination.

No, I mean, I totally understand what you are saying. Ever since I posted that the other day, I have been thinking about how it COULD actually be done. Like you say, it would be very, very difficult to get the atmosphere right, but I do think it could done, and done amazingly! The toughest casting would be Guts himself. Griffith and Caska would be fairly easy, and the monsters would be CGI. Maybe some of the big armor-clad bosses would be CGI too.

One thing I love about the anime is that about half the series takes place at night, under blue, star-filled skies. That would have to be done on a soundstage. Instead of greenscreen and comping, maybe use a fixed sky, like David did with Manure. Night skies are one of the most difficult things for Hollywood to pull off.

Much of the atmosphere of the film would have to be computer generated. There has a be a big separation from reality. You wouldn't want it to come out like some low-rent "Beastmaster" from the 80s, shot in some run-down castles in Eastern Europe or whatever. :biggrin:

[liquidigital]

Beastmaster rocked the shit. The movie that put ferrets on the map. I think every kid had ferret fever after this movie. So no Leo for Kaneda? Too old now, maybe?

[Tom Lowe]

haha... yeah.. as a kid, i used to love that movie.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

What do you mean no anime has translated well? I loved Speed Racer! Hated the look-- but was able to overlook it because I thought it was a genuinely great movie.

[Brandon Fraley]

What do you mean no anime has translated well? I loved Speed Racer! Hated the look-- but was able to overlook it because I thought it was a genuinely great movie.

I haven't seen Speed Racer so I can't say either way, but that's definitely a controversial statement. I don't think you'll win that argument with most people by citing Speed Racer :)

[Tom Lowe]

you definitely won't win any financial arguments!

in a sense, you could argue that movies like 300 are sort of an example of manga working on the bigscreen, as graphic novels and manga are similar. Berserk, for example, could be marketed in at least a somewhat similar manner to 300, with ultra-violence, amazing visuals, etc, but with a ten times more epic storyline than the simple plot of 300.

the graphic novel adaptation genre might be drying up soon, through, with such a glut of those types of films. the Spirit bombed, it seems. maybe Sin City 2 will be good.

[Brandon Fraley]

the graphic novel adaptation genre might be drying up soon, through, with such a glut of those types of films. the Spirit bombed, it seems. maybe Sin City 2 will be good.

you think they're still making it? At this point I think they probably should just leave it alone. Like you said, there's a glut of similar movies, and the first was so acclaimed. If it were my movie, I'd rather see it's legacy intact as it is.

[Tom Lowe]

i don't know... it seems like sin city 2 has been in "production" for like 3 years or more. i'm not sure what its status is.

[liquidigital]

the graphic novel adaptation genre might be drying up soon, through, with such a glut of those types of films.

You may be right Tom. There's just so much saturation. The next wave is going to be video game/controlling human type scripts, more than a handful of Somali pirate ideas, human trafficking will continue after the success of "Taken." As a writer, I'm constantly trying to think of what's next. What's going to be desirable to a studio two years from now. Whether anime will weather the storm remains to be seen. I think Dragonball will probably bring in shitty numbers, but who knows? Too many contingencies for movie goers now. But I would love to see Akira come to fruition.

[Tom Lowe]

Certainly the market lacks good scifi these days, IMO. Let's hope that Star Trek does justice to that genre. The technology is here for scifi, but the vision is lacking in terms of scripts.

Big futuristic WW3-style epics are lacking, too. I guess Sum of All Fears killed off that genre.

[Jaime Vallés]

Certainly the market lacks good scifi these days, IMO. Let's hope that Star Trek does justice to that genre. The technology is here for scifi, but the vision is lacking in terms of scripts.

Big futuristic WW3-style epics are lacking, too. I guess Sum of All Fears killed off that genre.
World War Z (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816711/) will hopefully be awesome...:ack2: :zombie_smiley::hurray::coolgleam:

[Joseph Ward]

Marketing and Timing is just as important as everything else. Considering about half of a movies budget is spent on promotion and advertising.

[Kholi Hicks]

What do you mean no anime has translated well? I loved Speed Racer! Hated the look-- but was able to overlook it because I thought it was a genuinely great movie.

Speed Racer is americanized crap.

No video game OR anime has been translated appropriately. Death Note translation SUCKS, All of the REsident Evils SUCK.

Closest thing we have to good Video Game or Anime translations are Silent Hill and The Matrix, for ripping Ghost in the Shell hardcore.

The reason is that these guys have no idea wtf they're doing with the franchise and either go too hard into fan service or stray too far from the source material.

Shit, even our Legend of Zelda trailer was TOO MUCH fan service, even for an april fools jokebut we did that on purpose. As a fan, I can say that it would have sorely disappointed me, but as the content creator I'm proud of what we did with no money.

I hope Ruari breaks the cycle before Evangelion or Voltron hit. Ugh.

[Tom Lowe]

If James Cameron does Battle Angel, it is almost guaranteed to own.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Closest thing we have to good Video Game or Anime translations are Silent Hill

WHOA WHOA Whoa... you lost me there. That movie is in my top 5 worst movies ever made. It also holds the dubious honor of being the only movie I've ever almost fallen asleep to in a theater.

But... I will say was pure eye candy. Absolutely gorgeous look. Great sound design.

[Brandon Fraley]

yeah, and the matrix certainly doesn't qualify as a video game adaptation. I don't agree that Matrix ripped off GitS "hardcore" either. Not that there aren't similarities ;)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Especially if we start digging into the list of authors and stories which Gits pretty blatantly rips from.

Like begats like. I like philisophical socially hard-hitting sci-fi. Therefore anything I write is probably going to be very Philip K Dickish/Gibsonesque.

GITS was also great when it was called neuromancer.

Transhumanism extends beyond one film or book. It's been bandied about by thinkers and artists longer than the moving picture has been taken seriously.

[Kholi Hicks]

yeah, and the matrix certainly doesn't qualify as a video game adaptation. I don't agree that Matrix ripped off GitS "hardcore" either. Not that there aren't similarities ;)

Come on, now. Matrix rips scenes right out of GitS. Call it flattery if you must. And I'm talking about video game, comic and anime. Not just video game.

And Silent Hill really was the closest most tolerable adaptation of any video game to-date. Then Lara Croft, then Mortal Kombat. Let me see, just off the top of my head, though, what sort of horridness we've had... Surely these aren't what you call good?



Street Fighter the Movie
Street Fighter: Legend of Chun Li
Resident Evil (How do you mess this up?)
Resident Evil 2 (How do you mess it up again?)
Hitman (What?)
Super Mario Bros (Guilty Pleasure, but even I know it's horrid)
Double Dragon (Marc Decostas is a great guy, know him, but boy is that movie terrible)
House Of The Dead (No, please gahd no. A RAVE!?)
Alone in the Dark (Just retire already)
Doom (You really messed up here. Best part was the fight in the pit.)
Dead Or Alive (Boobs do not make movie good)

I haven't seen Max Payne, may On Demand it this weekend.
Far Cry adaptation? We'll see.

Shadow of the Collosus is coming? Serious FAIL I bet. Worst news an SotC fan could ever hear.

Some people I know just wrapped King of Fighters. Yeah. FAIL

We have Tekken coming soon. KNow some of the stunt guys working on that. Heard it was pretty FAIL.

Oh, and how about Jake G in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I heard Bruckheimer quote "Not since Lawrence of Arabia has something like this been done.". PFFFFFFFFFFT. Come on, if I don't see Jake G and Princess dashing across walls epically, it will FAIL.

BioShock's rights got bought up. If they manage to screw that up, well, wait. They probably will.

Castlevania? Come on now. Bet money it's a second rate Van Helsing. Oh wait, Van Helsing is ALREADY second rate. Expect gutter trash.

What can I say, I have NO FAITH in the elderly taking the games that I enjoy and turning them into movies. The best video game movie to date was what? THE WIZARD -- a movie about a kid that runs away to compete in a Super Mario 3 Time Trial Contest.

Just now they're getting the hang of it with Comic Icons. It took HOW long to get it straight? And with much much less respect being paid to video games because they don't have the same long-standing roots as Comic Book franchises, it ain't gonna get better until someone that knows how to bridge the gap grabs the reigns.

I seriously hope Ruari starts it with Akira. I suspect it'll be better than Evangelion. Which I can't imagine how you could make Eva any sort of terrible seein' how biblical the material is.

[Brandon Fraley]

oh, if "best game adaptation" doesn't imply "good movie" than you maybe right. I wouldn't be surprised if Silent Hill was better than Resident Evil or Doom. I do enjoy me some WIZARD though :)

OFF TOPIC: Just wanted to mention I LOVED Shadow of the Colossus. When I heard they were making it into a movie I had the same feelings I have about Akira. Both are Art films that cost $100million. Can't say I have much hope for either reaching much further than summer blockbuster status in the corporate studio system:(

[Kholi Hicks]

oh, if "best game adaptation" doesn't imply "good movie" than you maybe right. I wouldn't be surprised if Silent Hill was better than Resident Evil or Doom. I do enjoy me some WIZARD though :)

OFF TOPIC: Just wanted to mention I LOVED Shadow of the Colossus. When I heard they were making it into a movie I had the same feelings I have about Akira. Both are Art films that cost $100million. Can't say I have much hope for either reaching much further than summer blockbuster status in the corporate studio system:(

I mean, let's face it you're right: most games are based on popular media or medium of a different sort. But they all become their own entities, be they weird trips through someone's mind or zombie horror.

Left 4 Dead is an amazing game, but it's based on zombie movies.

I dunno, probably just asking too much because now I can't even conjugate my thoughts properly. I just want there to be some decent adaptations.

[Imran Farouk]

they were going to do a Halo one...think that went out the window...but the shorts done for it look pretty damn good i have to say. :cool:
I don't understand though the need to turn anime (Dragon Ball Z) and games into films that just turn out to be either serious disappointments or just don't follow the games as they should!
Comic book movies seem to be holding up their front...Watchmen was amazing and so was Iron Man...meh...maybe people should stick to comic books and books rather then games and anime...imagine turning Evangelion into a film..given they are appearently doing something with Cowboy bebop...:yikes:

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I wasn't saying other video game movies were good. Just that of all movies Silent Hill took the cake as being both terrible and dull. Without comparison. I would say every single movie on that list beats out Silent Hill for watchability.

House of the Dead - World's Best Directors Commentary Ever. I could watch it with Director's Commentary 100 times and never get tired of it. "See how he carries that box and makes it look heavy. That's the sign of a great actor." It's 90 minutes of the actor subtly insulting the director who is completely oblivious. Pure Gold.

Doom - I actually kind of like Doom. :D It's stupid. But at least watchable and kind of fun.

Din't really like the Halo Shorts. I like the director's other work just found the Halo shorts to be too indie. Too much shakey and not enough grit. There's docu-style and then there's just undirected randomness I didn't feel like the camera work was intentional enough even if it was shakey and handheld.

The problem I've seen with Video Game movies is they always choose games which had no plots to turn into Movies. While games that have excellent plots are completely skimmed over.

Also you forgot my favorite VideoGame -> Movie adaptation: Wing Commander. Corney as hell but I like seeing space ships blow up and that has some of the most interesting space combat. As eye candy it was fun. As a movie it's terrible.

EDIT: Oh yeah another Video Game Movie also makes it into my 10 worst movies of all time: Final Fantasy Advent Children.

EDIT EDIT: Personally I think most anime gets a 'free pass' on quality because 1) It's animated 2) It's subtitled. I don't think an American Viewer can adequately judge the acting and pacing when they don't speak the language. Just like everyone always says "Dubs suck"... maybe that's because the dialog is actually really bad but like a lot of screenplays is readable.

There are lots of stories which make for good reading but are completely rediculous when actually read aloud.

I think movies with subtitles are easier to pass off as good than a movie which actually has to be understood by the viewer.

[Tom Lowe]

This would take a serious budget and a director with incredible vision, but I have always thought a live-action "Nausicaa" film based on the storyline of the Miyazaki's anime could work. It's message is probably more relevant, needed, and understandable now than ever before.

[Kholi Hicks]

Also you forgot my favorite VideoGame -> Movie adaptation: Wing Commander. Corney as hell but I like seeing space ships blow up and that has some of the most interesting space combat. As eye candy it was fun. As a movie it's terrible.

EDIT: Oh yeah another Video Game Movie also makes it into my 10 worst movies of all time: Final Fantasy Advent Children.


WING COMMANDER? Wow, you went there.

And Advent Children was all fan service. It wasn't meant for anyone BUT fans, and it served it's purpose in continuing the legacy of Squaresofts (screw Square Enix) much-beloved Franchise featuring the spikey-headed one himself. But it amazes me how WING COMMANDER (the very thought of it makes my stomach turn) can be Corney and great Eye Candy but a Visual Marvel like Advent Children doesn't get the same?

Tsk.

[Brandon Fraley]

WING COMMANDER? Wow, you went there.

lol:laugh:

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

This would take a serious budget and a director with incredible vision, but I have always thought a live-action "Nausicaa" film based on the storyline of the Miyazaki's anime could work. It's message is probably more relevant, needed, and understandable now than ever before.

I´ll vote for that!

[Brandon Fraley]

This would take a serious budget and a director with incredible vision, but I have always thought a live-action "Nausicaa" film based on the storyline of the Miyazaki's anime could work.

never seen it, should I have?

[Graeme Nattress]

I'd say that is Miyazaki has made it, then yes, you should see it. His stuff is wonderful. Naussica is great, but I still think my favourite is Laputa.

Graeme

[J Davis]

Live action Akira - I hope they keep the original score

Matrix vs GITS - ghost was part of their pitch, and there was so much more in the
film than just GITS swipes, I think its more like reverence. They owe more to W.Gibson.

Wing Commander - oh boy now I feel old!!!! That game was 1990.

[Tom Lowe]

never seen it, should I have?

Like Graeme said, you cannot go wrong with Miyazaki.

I highly suggest:

Nausicaa
Mononoke
Laputa
Spirited Away
Porco Rosso

He also produced and had a big part in making a Ghibli film called "Whisper of the Heart" which is one of the best animated movies ever made, IMO.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

One of my favorites is Howl's Moving Castle. Except for the last 5minutes. It almost ruined it for me.

I would highly recommend Howl's moving Castle and then just stopping before the final ending. :D

Porco Rosso is one of his least popular films but maybe my favorite.

However you look at it you can't go wrong with Miyazaki.

-----

I'm not certain Nausica would be financially prohibitive. If you shot it similarly to Sky Captain I think it could be delivered pretty inexpensively. You've got two main areas to create: The Town and the Forest. The forest could be very reusable as far as digital assets go. Lots of matte paintings. All of the aerial stuff wouldn't be terribly expensive either. I imagine you could probably find a good proxy town in the alps somewhere.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

But for bringing a Japanese Anime feature into the live-action realm, Akira is a good choice, IMO. If I ever get the opportunity to do such a thing (just fantasizing here), I'd want to do Nausicaa: The Wind Rider, but that's just me.

:) :thumbsup::thumbsup: :)

[Tom Lowe]

I'm not certain Nausica would be financially prohibitive. If you shot it similarly to Sky Captain I think it could be delivered pretty inexpensively. You've got two main areas to create: The Town and the Forest. The forest could be very reusable as far as digital assets go. Lots of matte paintings. All of the aerial stuff wouldn't be terribly expensive either. I imagine you could probably find a good proxy town in the alps somewhere.

I think with both Nausicaa and Berserk, you would not want to go 100% digital backgrounds, like 300. I think Sky Captain was essentially all digital, too, right? I've only seen parts of it.

Instead, I would use real people and real sets, backed by some CGI, or even some old-school fake skies, like David used on Manure. It would be sort of a magical, heightened reality. And of course all the creatures and demons, etc, would be CGI.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think Nausicaa would be a far better choice for live action than even Akira. I don't think a style like Sky Captain or 300 would suit it well. Both styles are very restrictive, to the point where viewers can often feel claustrophobic just by watching the film. I think it worked well for 300, but not for Sky Captain. IMO, Nausicaa needs a predominantly live-action, real environment treatment with a good mix of practical and CG FX. I'm thinking more Lord of the Rings. While LOTR was pretty grand at times, I think a film like Nausicaa could still be done on a realistic budget. The real issue is keeping the studios from butchering it.

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah, and let's face it, the technology has improved even since LOTR, where you could make the CGI extensions of sets even more perfect.

I think with either Berserk or Nausicaa, you would want to stick very close the anime stories, but toss in a few new things so that even hardcore fans could get something new from the live action films. With Berserk, for example, a lot of the boss battles are just random and could be replaced with anything that advanced the core story in a similar fashion. Although I admit, with Nausicaa, the anime is so close to perfection right now that you would be hard-pressed to improve on it, even the little vignettes.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I agree it should mostly be live action--which is why I recommend finding a proxy valley with a matte extension for the desert.

But where are you going to find an epic magical forest? :D The trees are so large all you would be able to shoot practically is the grass under their feet. My least favorite part of LOTR was Lothlorean. It felt very much like a set the entire time.

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah, trees would have to be practical sets (very expensive) or partially practical, partially CGI, or all CGI. I guess it would all depend on the setups. I'm sure there's a way to do it.

Makes me think of Darren Aronofsky's The Fountain. An example of how NOT to do it would be his opening scenes in the "dark jungle," which were filmed on a soundstage on the cheap and look absolutely crappy and unconvincing. Some of the later stuff, like Jackman at the tree of life, looked magical. Definitely a heightened reality.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2cqmii8.jpg

And Darren did a lot of these shots using old-school optical trickery, with hardly any CGI.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

But where are you going to find an epic magical forest? :D The trees are so large all you would be able to shoot practically is the grass under their feet. My least favorite part of LOTR was Lothlorean. It felt very much like a set the entire time.

I'd start with Redwood Forest... And then CG it up... But that's just me. I agree on LOTR and lothlorean, but every production has its limits.

[Tom Lowe]

imagine the sets or CGI for the underground "clean" forests in Nausicaa.

so many epic opportunities for great visuals. and we haven't talked about the glider! :w00t:

[Brandon Fraley]

YMakes me think of Darren Aronofsky's The Foundation.

im not familiar with that one ;)

[Tom Lowe]

oh, lol sorry about that typo. :violent:

omg, i'm loving these new smilies!

[Gavin Greenwalt]

so many epic opportunities for great visuals. and we haven't talked about the glider! :w00t:

Haha. That's because people have been doing glider VFX for the last 35 years. We've got that down pat.

Even terrible 70s movies had... passable... glider fx. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQC4ZfHKYh0 :D

[Derek Van Gorder]

My opinion regarding live-action anime remakes:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The Matrix showed that a humble "inspired by" can be much more effective than an unimaginative "remake of."

[Brandon Fraley]

My opinion regarding live-action anime remakes:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The Matrix showed that a humble "inspired by" can be much more effective than an unimaginative "remake of."

excellent point, I completely agree.

[Tom Lowe]

Except that when it came down to it, The Matrix failed to have a story that really ended well or had any meaning. They may have been inspired by great stories, but they could not make their own story quite as good. I liked Matrix I and II, but the third movie was a huge letdown. I thought that the whole showdown with the Architect was going to lead to something monumental, but in the end, it just petered out. What did we get? A lame fistfight between Neo and Smith that ripped off Superman vs Zodd in Superman II? Those guys really didn't know where they wanted to take their story in the end - and of course, that is the hardest thing.

The stories we are talking about here are world-class. I would put either Nausicaa or Berserk on par with Greek mythology. I'd say the same for the original Star Wars trilogy.

People who are disciples of Joe Campbell know that there are only so many stories out there. Humans have basically been retelling the same stories to ourselves for thousands of years. So when you have a chance to sort of re-package those themes into a new and relevant story for the times, that is one of the highest forms of art. That's what "Homer" did. Just because something has been done as a comic or novel or anime or whatever, doesn't mean that making a live-action film of it is a "remake." I mean, was Gone with the Wind a remake?

[Brandon Fraley]

Except that when it came down to it, The Matrix failed to have a story that really ended well or had any meaning. They may have been inspired by great stories, but they could not make their own story quite as good.

Not taking the sequels into account, I totally have to disagree with you here. The Matrix is my favorite action film and one of my favorite flicks of any genre.

[Tom Lowe]

I was talking about the overall trilogy's story arc. I liked the first two pictures a lot.

Another example of my point is Lord of Rings. I loved those novels, and I certainly would not consider Jackson's movies a "remake", even though there was an animated film of LOTR.

Brandon have you seen the two "Ghost in the Shell" movies?

[Paul Leeming]

"Ghost in the Shell" rocks!

I'm a huge anime fan and it was one of the reasons I decided to relocate my life to Japan, in order to study them more and learn the native language in order to better enjoy them.

Totally agree that directors like Miyazaki, Oshii etc take the art form to a whole other level. I want to direct a live action adaptation of anime one day and GITS would be an amazing one to do if I were able to pull it off.

Cheers,

Paul

[Tom Lowe]

Paul, that's really awesome that you moved to Japan to soak up the culture. Do you have a blog or flickr account or some way to follow your exploits there? I saw your twitter account, but not much there about Japan and Japanese life.

[Anthony Gratl]

Except that when it came down to it, The Matrix failed to have a story that really ended well or had any meaning. .....but in the end, it just petered out. ....Those guys really didn't know where they wanted to take their story in the end - and of course, that is the hardest thing.


absolutely right tom, and i do agree with you on the surface of your comment, however, considering the philosophical construct and nature of the story (and that is what solidly anchors the original film, and indeed the trilogy, in my opinion), part of the debate is the idea that the matrix story didn't have to have an end............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................
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hole? :)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I loved Matrix 1, 2 and 3.

But 1 was the only one with a good story. ;D

The car chase in reloaded I can watch on loop for days.

And the siege in Revolutions is the greatest battle in a film ever. Revolutions is still my favorite theater experience ever. It's not in my top 10 favorite films. But just seeing it on the big screen was awe inspiring.

[Tom Lowe]

i saw Matrix 2 like a gazillion times. that movie has a very high rewatchability factor.

in terms of endings though, you have to point to return of the jedi as probably having the best ending ever for any major film like this, even if the overall film itself has some lag (Ewoks, etc). it's a textbook of example of wrapping things up quickly and epicly. ROTK, i thought, dragged out its finale with a ton of false endings. they should have taken a cue from ROTJ.

endings are really the hardest thing to do in writing stories and making films, IMO.

the end of Nausicaa is very, very well done, with the "golden field."

[jpp]

I had just about persuaded myself that the only way to make successful scifi removed from ordinary reality was animation -- live action being too literal and lumbering to embody conceptual notions, no matter how good the vfx may be; or the vxf are so good they end up looking like animation -- when this thread came along. Seems like all the interest runs the other direction....

If Oshii had done Solaris, it probably would have succeeded, unlike the Soderbergh and Tarkovsky versions, bound to earth by the material world and emotions which, among human actors, overwhelmed the speculative interests....

Anyone interested in Japanese anime in a realist dramatic tradition, have a look at "Grave of the Fireflies", which concerns the U.S. fire-bombing of Japan during WWII, and its effect on two children. It's some piece of work, painterly, moving.

[Tom Lowe]

Grave of the Fireflies is a great work of art.

Have you seen Whisper of the Heart, jpp? It's not as serious, but it's a very solid film.

[Derek Van Gorder]

Whisper of the Heart is a great little flick, maybe the best non-Miyazaki Ghibli film. Highly recommended!

Tom, I would agree about the Matrix sequels, I tend to try and ignore their existence. ^_^ There likely wasn't any planned story arc for those. Just another example of "sequelitis"...

And of course, as good as it was, I don't think the first film surpassed its source, GitS. The W. brothers over-literalized Oshii's themes of "society as illusion," which were much more subtle originally.

Have you seen Oshii's live-action film Avalon? It was his way of responding to The Matrix. A flawed movie to be sure, but quite intriguing visually, and much more focused on philosophy than action.

I think this kind of dialogue between filmmakers through their work is very interesting; in the end you get three movies with actively similar themes, but different stories and styles. Since all art is response to previous art on some level, I guess the idea of a "remake" just seems kind of redundant to me. Re-using the same title and the same characters seems useful only in a commercial sense, "name recognition," etc. But the notion seems particularly dubious to me when Hollywood adapts foreign films (or anime, in this case) for domestic audiences; the implication is that the films need to be culturally translated in order to be better appreciated. I would much rather see a wider, more publicized release of the original, foreign film rather than a later re-make tailored for U.S. audiences.

As far as adapting themes or particular visuals that you love, I feel that there is plenty of room for that in an original work. I'm a huge fan of sci-fi anime, and really hope that its influence will be seen more and more in future Hollywood films.

Anyway, remakes are an established convention, and I know they won't be going away any time soon. But they do have a poor track record in terms of producing actually good films, and I doubt this is just coincidence. Many talented directors have made underwhelming remakes; I think maybe there is something creatively limiting about choosing to re-do the same story instead of taking the themes in a new direction.

[Tom Lowe]

Have you seen Oshii's live-action film Avalon? It was his way of responding to The Matrix. A flawed movie to be sure, but quite intriguing visually, and much more focused on philosophy than action.


I have not seen that. I will check it out for sure!

By the way, just to be clear, I also abhor Hollywood's recent fixation with remaking older films.

I am trying to make a point that adapting a graphic novel, an anime, a literary novel, or a manga or comic book is not exactly "remaking," if a live-action film has never been done. "Gone with Wind" was based on a very, very popular novel at the time. Same thing is true of "Wizard of Oz." Those are two of the best and most legendary films in the history of cinema. I am not the hugest fan of the LOTR films, but I loved the novels and liked the movies. I wouldn't consider those "remakes," even though there was in fact an animated version of "Lord of Rings." So to me, tackling live-action versions of Nausicaa or Berserk would not be a "remake." The fact is that it would take incredible vision and talent to bring those stories to the screen in live action. And to me, it's definitely not about adapting them culturally for western audiences. It's about telling the stories in the most epic way possible. The visual possibilities alone are mind-boggling.

In terms of manga and graphic novels, yes there has been a glut of Hollywood crapola adaptations, mostly of Frank Miller's stuff in particular, but that doesn't mean a truly great film will not be spawned from manga. In fact, it is almost certain that one will, and soon.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Wait. Tarkovsky failed with Solaris!? BLASPHEMY! :D That's like one of my 3 most favoritest films ever.

[jpp]

Wait. Tarkovsky failed with Solaris!? BLASPHEMY! :D That's like one of my 3 most favoritest films ever.

A Tarkovsky failure (according to me, anyway) can still be a fascinating film, but I wonder if you know the novel?

"Failure as an adapation" is maybe the more accurate way to put it. The book is full of astounding visuals which, strangely enough, are completely absent from both film versions. And the romantic/tragic story-line is the least interesting element of the novel, but both T. and S. got caught up in it, which was probably inevitable in live-action and with flesh and blood actors. The book is a very brainy, conceptual work, which I think might have been translatable with animation, but not so, with live-action.

And do you really like all that sentimental paternalism of the Tarkovsky version? These Russians....

[Jason Murphy]

Whisper of the Heart is a great little flick, maybe the best non-Miyazaki Ghibli film. Highly recommended!

Whisper of the Heart is wonderful, but it pales in comparison to both Grave of the Fireflies and My Neighbors the Yamadas, as far as non-Miyazaki Ghibli films go IMO.

And JPP, I completely second you on the Oshii Solaris adaptation (even though I love both the Soderbergh and the Tarkovsky version). It's actually been one of the "wouldn't-it-be-excellent-if" projects occasionally kicked around by me and my friends for a few years since watching Innocence.

That said, I've thought for a long time that it would be a very interesting thing to take a number of very different directors and have each of them adapt Lem's Solaris, to see how each filmmaker's own aesthetic imprint and worldview affect the adaptation. Seems like it would be good material for that sort of experiment.

EDIT: Also, this seems to have been borne out in the two adaptations thus far. Also maybe Paul WS Anderson's godawful Event Horizon, which definitely teeters on Solaris territory in many respects. Except for the Solaris part.

[jpp]

Since we're making recommendations, another interesting non-Miyazaki Studio Ghibli anime is Pompoko ("Raccoon Wars"), about shape-shifting raccoon-like animals threatened by a housing development which is consuming their habitat. So they put on a spectacular shape-shifting Halloween Night/Day of the Dead/Macy's Day Parade display in the night sky, with huge apparitions which come in through the windows, etc. to frighten the residents into thinking the place is haunted. And the residents are indeed ready to pack up and leave, until the owner of the development, a resourceful capitalist, claims it was all his idea, as a publicity stunt. Meanwhile some of the old people wonder if it wasn't really those transforming raccoons from times past, the old animism of Japan and the human connection to nature, which is also being destroyed by "progress".

This one is a bit cutesy at times, but worth seeing.

[Tom Lowe]

Pom Poko is a fun movie.

I disagree about Whisper of the Heart paling in comparison to both Grave of the Fireflies and My Neighbors the Yamadas.

Whisper is a very, very underrated film, IMO. I showed it to my mother a couple years ago over the Xmas break and she absolutely loved it. She bought a copy. And that's the first anime she's ever seen!

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'll have to pick up whisper of the heart. I haven't even heard of it before.

[Tom Lowe]

I'll have to pick up whisper of the heart. I haven't even heard of it before.

i'd like to hear what you think after you see it. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Paul Leeming]

Paul, that's really awesome that you moved to Japan to soak up the culture. Do you have a blog or flickr account or some way to follow your exploits there? I saw your twitter account, but not much there about Japan and Japanese life.
Hey Tom, sorry I don't have any blogs or photo accounts online right now. I've got a personal twitter account @paulleeming but it's more observational and political as opposed to a view on daily Japanese life.

I try to put my Japanese photos in the DSLR thread as you've seen a few times. I am planning to one day self-publish a coffee table photo book with my Japan photos (via Lulu or similar) but I imagine that'll be of limited sales value. More for my own enjoyment and to give copies to friends.

Perhaps I'll start a blog one day on life here, though I'm always wary that personal thoughts and opinions get conflated with my professional persona. On the other hand, I'm writing a movie currently which is a horror/slasher/satire on Japanese life so I guess in some ways if I ever make that you'll get a great insight into how I perceive Japan in a fun, no holds barred package!! :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Paul

[Gavin Greenwalt]

i'd like to hear what you think after you see it. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Incredible! My new favorite Japanese film. I would say I like it even better than Grave of the Fireflies--I love grave of the fireflies but at the same time depressing films are always emotional and so it's kind of cheating. It's much more challenging to create an inspiring story that isn't an 'inspirational story about overcoming adversity'. It was very human. Very genuine and inspirational.

I couldn't tell at the end during the credits if that was a timelapse of 10 years or just the same day. Maybe I was looking too hard but I thought I saw them older walk by. Difficult to tell with animation.

My only dissapointment was that the beginning seemed a wee bit slow.

All in all: the names, places and dates change but people are people. An exuisite story irregardless of culture. If I had a million dollars and rights I would love to shoot it. ;)