RAPE of a BEAUTY

[KETCH ROSSi]

*Sorry Moderators for having initially posted in what seemed to be the wrong session*


After much talk has been decided that "RAPE of a BEAUTY" will be in deed filmed prior to "CHRONICLES of PERSEVERANCE" at a 1Mil. budget.

The film will be Screened and Distribute as "UNRATED" and unrated it is, as the scenes depicted in the telling of this Extreme Drama, will be very explicit Sexually, Violent and Brutal in the actions of abuse and rape against its Female Star.

We are now in Pre-Production of this Drama, the film will be shot entirely in Vegas, and off course will be shot 100% with RED cameras, and hopefully RED PRO lenses.

Will be shooting a Trailer Teaser, and hopefully will have have something to show at the REDUSER party at RIO, but not sure yet.

100% of the funds that will be raised from the Art Gallery sales filmed as part of the Movie at a very popular Vegas Casino, will be donated on the spot to a Charity foundation in Aid of Abuse Women,
in an attempt of doing a little but sincere part in the prevention of Rape and Abuse to Women.



EDIT:

This story, is not just about Rape, but about violence that resides in many homes across the globe, and stays there because others choose to do nothing about it,
this is at times an Abuse that leads to the death of its victims, or worst, and at the very list scars them for ever, I'm one of those victims so,
I say this from first hand experience, and this is the most important reason of my choosing to tell this stories such as "Rape of a Beauty" and " Chronicles of Perseverance".


EDIT: 2

I appreciate truly all the feed back given here, even if some being a bit harsh, given the few line I left on the page below, was to be expected, and that was exactly what I was looking for, not way to go Ketch, but listen Ketch or do that or change that and so on, not that I will change it, but this gives me more then on e way to look at hte story and think very well how to tell it, so agin Thank you for your feed back.


Here is a peak preview of what is to come:

http://ketchrossi.smugmug.com/photos/506961015_x5PWt-X2.png

[donatello b]

doesn't seem to offer much hope ( other then rape ) ...
so bottom line is? male will screw a female up and for the cure =you'll need a MALE to unscrew you up ( tie me up and then rape me to cure me :(
seems the synopsis offers no self humanity for the female lead ??

[KETCH ROSSi]

doesn't seem to offer much hope ( other then rape ) ...
so bottom line is? male will screw a female up and for the cure =you'll need a MALE to unscrew you up ( tie me up and then rape me to cure me :(
seems the synopsis offers no self humanity for the female lead ??

Well the film is about RAPE, and the Crime against Humanity, which in deed offers very little hope.

This particular story however will bring hope and inspiration to other Women, victims of such crime.

It is the True Story of a woman which after been thru Rape, even if done by her boyfriend, as it was forced sex, it is Rape, and after been liberated from him, She had spent over a year with the new boyfriend with no success in Making Love, and after numerous sections of therapy and no hope in site She had come to the decision to have her new boyfriend force himself in to her.

This was done in a far different way, this was something She wanted to try in order to subdue her painful past which did not allow her to have a sexual relation ship with the person that She loved and was loved by.

One page synopsis is just that one page out of 100 or so, and it is always difficult to see what it is to come, and particularly in the way I like to right, as I do not write Spec scripts.

ciao

[J Davis]

Ketch, since your proceeds go towards aid for abused women, and I feel that you genuinely want the film to be a positive force, I am therefore confused by your current marketing angle.

The title 'Rape of a Beauty' combined with your tagline
'She will endure unspeakable acts of rape, again... and again, but she will survive and find love'
to me seems more oriented to a violent and voyeuristic audience. I can't help but instantly think of the the french film 'Baise-Moi'.

I am sorry if this was not your intention and it seems almost contra to the 'aid for abused women' bit that you mention.

I would like to suggest something (forgive me for being so bold) – but would you consider altering the title or tag line to focus more on 'endurance', 'survival' and 'love'?

Jhoe Davis
writer/director

see some of my work at
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26713

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ketch, since your proceeds go towards aid for abused women, and I feel that you genuinely want the film to be a positive force, I am therefore confused by your current marketing angle.

The title 'Rape of a Beauty' combined with your tagline
'She will endure unspeakable acts of rape, again... and again, but she will survive and find love'
to me seems more oriented to a violent and voyeuristic audience. I can't help but instantly think of the the french film 'Baise-Moi'.

I am sorry if this was not your intention and it seems almost contra to the 'aid for abused women' bit that you mention.

I would like to suggest something (forgive me for being so bold) – but would you consider altering the title or tag line to focus more on 'endurance', 'survival' and 'love'?

Jhoe Davis
writer/director

see some of my work at
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26713

Thanks for your comment Jhoe,

this is a working title, but will not likely change, then again... but the slag-line has definitely room to change in any way, this was just something came out of my head, and put it down, and I do like the "Survival and Love" or something similar as well.


ciao

[rod bradley]

Of course the devil is always in the details -- or I should say the art. I agree Jhoe you may unwittingly be conveying something that feels a bit exploitive, which I know is not your intention.

But it is easy, I think, to become exploitive of sensational elements -- while intending to condemn them. The worst example I've ever seen of this is a French film called MARTYRS --

Good luck with it all Ketch.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Forgive my ignorance but I'm just curious, what is the premise?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Of course the devil is always in the details -- or I should say the art. I agree Jhoe you may unwittingly be conveying something that feels a bit exploitive, which I know is not your intention.

But it is easy, I think, to become exploitive of sensational elements -- while intending to condemn them. The worst example I've ever seen of this is a French film called MARTYRS --

Good luck with it all Ketch.

Yu are correct.

Thanks you.

ciao



Forgive my ignorance but I'm just curious, what is the premise?


Even so there really is not always a need for a logical situation and a Plot drive story, at list not in an independent film and especially in those that represent the telling of a true story`, there is actually a very strong Plot here and it is represented by its Star, SABRINA, and her struggles to survive and escape a prison that is her home, and the violence that is brought to her on a regular basis in her own home.

ciao

[Fredrik Callinggard]

there is actually a very strong Plot here and it is represented by its Star, SABRINA, and her struggles to survive and escape a prison that is her home, and the violence that is brought to her on a regular basis in her own home.

ciao

Absolutely no questions asked but that is a plot. I'm curious in what's your premise? What do you want to say with the film? What is it's point?

A premise is derived from emotions and is.... something something leads to something something.

Now it's clear that her abuse leads to her not being capable of love in any other way then being abused. Now when they conquer that by raping her "with love" what is the conclusion? What has it lead to and why does she manage to take the step out of it? Or doesn't she? Do they make passionate love with her being "forced" and so on.

Simply put what do you want to tell us with this film, what is the "moral"?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Absolutely no questions asked but that is a plot. I'm curious in what's your premise? What do you want to say with the film? What is it's point?

A premise is derived from emotions and is.... something something leads to something something.

Now it's clear that her abuse leads to her not being capable of love in any other way then being abused. Now when they conquer that by raping her "with love" what is the conclusion? What has it lead to and why does she manage to take the step out of it? Or doesn't she? Do they make passionate love with her being "forced" and so on.

Simply put what do you want to tell us with this film, what is the "moral"?

Okay, got you,

again as this is a true story, I want yes to say something of my own off course with this film, but I meanly want to expose the acts of which this woman has been a victim of, in the hope that its viewers will have a direct window in such acts, that more people are involved in then any one can possibly imagine.

My driving point to tell this story, comes from my own experiences in my home with my mom ( God bless her soul) and even so She had not gone thru any were near what Sabrina has, She was abused ( just like us) by a drunk on a regular basis.

So my intent here is to give the audience a window in this brutal world, and make them see how difficult some times really is to escape such situations, I want to touch their hearts in the hope that those viewers will refrain from ever doing so to any one they know, or act upon helping some one that they know She is going thru something similar.

She will survive, and even so off course sounds so plain in this short Synopsis page, the story takes place in its do time in the film , and makes it very realistic and makes sense of it all, as you see it happening, as far as the end, well that is an end that as other surprising turns and changes in the plot it self, must be seen :).

An d thanks for your comment

ciao

[Nick Wolf]

The extreme degree of terror inflicted on the girl is reduced to an act of impotant rage when measured against her defiance.

She refuses to submit to the imposed will of her oppressor and instead continues on with her life and even forces herself to have a functional relationship despite the emotional damage she has endoured.

The way to castrate a terrorist is not to use the same methods of revenge but to continue to dance to the glory of life. That usaually sheds a light on the true motives behind the dubious acts inflicted upon innocents.

Find a premise out of that.

DogDay.

P.S.

Maybe this;

"The only cure for darkness is light"

[KETCH ROSSi]

The extreme degree of terror inflicted on the girl is reduced to an act of impotant rage when measured against her defiance.

She refuses to submit to the imposed will of her oppressor and instead continues on with her life and even forces herself to have a functional relationship despite the emotional damage she has endoured.

The way to castrate a terrorist is not to use the same methods of revenge but to continue to dance to the glory of life. That usaually sheds a light on the true motives behind the dubious acts inflicted upon innocents.

Find a premise out of that.

DogDay.


Beautifull words.

ciao

[Alexis Hanawalt]

I'm just going to be direct here -

I think hitting people over the head with an idea in the name of art is a cop-out. It's what Passion of the Christ did. It's easy. I could make a film that's 90 minutes of emaciated Jews being tossed into incinerators. It would evoke a strong reaction. And then what?

George Lucas once said "Its easy to garner sympathy from an audience - just kill a puppy."

There's a fascinating film by Peter Greenaway called Baby of Macon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baby_of_Mâcon that has a 10 minute scene of repeated rape that is presented in a way that causes us to consider the surrounding circumstances and moralities. Pasolini's Salo also comes to mind - the scene in which a guard turns the binoculars around as he's watching a boy being sodomized so that the action taking place appears further away - literalizing the notion that one can distance themselves from brutality. There are elements of nuance in these films that allow them to artistically explore these issues. I'm not sure that there's nuance in your film as you describe it, and you seem to indicate that that's the point - which, to me, just seems like the easy way to do it.

What if everything you describe but the last paragraph were backstory. She could be troubled, and when pressed, all this sordid history is revealed... so that the focus of the film is on how such a shattered persona copes. Malle's Damage does this, in a way.

[Roberto B]

well placed..

[Roberto B]

It is the True Story of a woman which after been thru Rape, even if done by her boyfriend, as it was forced sex, it is Rape, and after been liberated from him, She had spent over a year with the new boyfriend with no success in Making Love, and after numerous sections of therapy and no hope in site She had come to the decision to have her new boyfriend force himself in to her.you have here a starting point..



as I do not write Spec scripts.
hire or call one.

[Nick Wolf]

George Lucas was talking about only a certain part of the world...There are vast regions where emiciated jews or dead puppys don`t garner the same emotional responce he was speaking about...In fact the opposite effect is created, laughter and cheering...But I get your point.

It might also be that the global village of ours has thrown diverging value systems side by side when treating the same universal subjects and themes, the conclusions & premises clash.

I don`t think someone from the east coast would interpret Hamlet the same way someone from the west coast would let alone The States & Europe etc etc etc

Ketch is from another Culture and brings another point of view and treatment of the subject to the table.

DogDay.

[Roberto B]

disagree only on the ketch's background.. seems to me not so different than his american curse.. sorry.. course.. do not feel nothing but a reality show..

edit
ketch you need to abandon the true story premiss.. it just interests the media marketeers.. you need to have "a" movie first..

[KETCH ROSSi]

I'm just going to be direct here -

I think hitting people over the head with an idea in the name of art is a cop-out. It's what Passion of the Christ did. It's easy. I could make a film that's 90 minutes of emaciated Jews being tossed into incinerators. It would evoke a strong reaction. And then what?

George Lucas once said "Its easy to garner sympathy from an audience - just kill a puppy."

There's a fascinating film by Peter Greenaway called Baby of Macon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baby_of_Mâcon that has a 10 minute scene of repeated rape that is presented in a way that causes us to consider the surrounding circumstances and moralities. Pasolini's Salo also comes to mind - the scene in which a guard turns the binoculars around as he's watching a boy being sodomized so that the action taking place appears further away - literalizing the notion that one can distance themselves from brutality. There are elements of nuance in these films that allow them to artistically explore these issues. I'm not sure that there's nuance in your film as you describe it, and you seem to indicate that that's the point - which, to me, just seems like the easy way to do it.

What if everything you describe but the last paragraph were backstory. She could be troubled, and when pressed, all this sordid history is revealed... so that the focus of the film is on how such a shattered persona copes. Malle's Damage does this, in a way.


I agree with you in more then one way, but surely as it is also my knowledge of such events, it is absolutely not the case here, and my intent is simply, as is in my Life Story "Chronicles of Perseverance" to express my artistic point of view in the telling of a story that must be told, for more then one reason, but surely not that of using Tragedy, as both are, for the only purpose of having a story to tell, as I'm a Man of Integrity and such I could not ever do something like that.

At this point of Pre-Production, and even after finishing the shoot of all the scenes of this film, I will still be open to various aspect of the Editing in what way the film should begin and end, but I do already have a strong opinion of what that will be.

Thanks.


you have here a starting point..

hire or call one.


Thanks,

when I say I'm not a Spec writer, I mean that I do not write for money, I write for my self, as to turn my stories in to Film by my own hand.



George Lucas was talking about only a certain part of the world...There are vast regions where emiciated jews or dead puppys don`t garner the same emotional responce he was speaking about...In fact the opposite effect is created, laughter and cheering...But I get your point.

It might also be that the global village of ours has thrown diverging value systems side by side when treating the same universal subjects and themes, the conclusions & premises clash.

I don`t think someone from the east coast would interpret Hamlet the same way someone from the west coast would let alone The States & Europe etc etc etc

Ketch is from another Culture and brings another point of view and treatment of the subject to the table.

DogDay.

Thanks you, you have put very well here, and I just hope that, even so I know I will disturb many, both by the acts of extreme and brutal violence and by the explicit sex scenes, which are not of love, but this is my story and must be told this way as to truly enter the hearts of the viewers that care about Humanity and go behind the nudity and the sex and take every minute of the film for what it is, a story about a woman that survives and surpasses the absolute most horrible things can be done to a HUman being, and yet finds love once again.

But an other important point is that Love thru her does not come at the end with the new boyfriend that even so unwillingly at first forces him self in to her as to try anything He can to help She which He loves, but SHe in fact shows Love for her sister Cindy from the start as She continues to suffer her Alcoholic boyfriend as to protect her little sister from the same faith.

Thanks

[Eren Ozkural]

This made me think of Irreversible.

That's a very blunt and visceral movie but the most powerful part (to me) was during the ten minute long rape scene when you see a stranger walk into frame way in the background. They just stand there for a second and then leave without getting involved.

It's the most subtle part of a relentless bleak film. (not calling it subtle overall, but comparing it to the other moments in the film)

[KETCH ROSSi]

disagree only on the ketch's background.. seems to me not so different than his american curse.. sorry.. course.. do not feel nothing but a reality show..

edit
ketch you need to abandon the true story premiss.. it just interests the media marketeers.. you need to have "a" movie first..

And this is obviously because you don't know me, you are sure entitled to an opinion as every one is, and I respect each and every one of them, but you are very mislead by I don't know what when you think that, even so I do love this country like my own, I'm and will be to the Death a True Italian, to the Bone :) I can't write as reality show or pay one simply because I don't like them, now if you refer of what you know of my life story and what it is presented here, then again that is just your opinion based on what you know of, and not on what it is, so I'm okay with that as well.

The premisis of the story should not and won't change simply beacuse that is what this story is.

But I appreciate your comments just the same.

ciao

[KETCH ROSSi]

This made me think of Irreversible.

That's a very blunt and visceral movie but the most powerful part (to me) was during the ten minute long rape scene when you see a stranger walk into frame way in the background. They just stand there for a second and then leave without getting involved.

It's the most subtle part of a relentless bleak film. (not calling it subtle overall, but comparing it to the other moments in the film)

Irreversible is a film that even so I had to stop watching because I was about to Vomit from indirect motion sickness, which main reason to absolutely dislike the choice of the filmmakers for their style, but I did had the film forward to the Rape scene on the Underpass, of which you mention, and possibly because I know and love Monica Bellucci, and hope to see her in the role of my mother in " Chronicles of Perseverance" that I was touched so deep from her performance during the rape that seemed so real I had that scenes running in my head for several days, and felt as if I did seen it happening for real, but it was no doubt more disuturbning the fact of having seen the person far away in the foregroung stop for a second, turn, and walk away, leaving the poor woman at the mercy of the Rapist, with absolute no hope to escape it.

I'm and Handicapped person, but even so I did not stop from attacking my attacker even at gun point, with the risk of gettinh shot, and I did, but when it comes to witness a Rape or extreme act of violence, there is no way that I could EVER walk away from it, no matter the consequences.


ciao

[Roberto B]

nothing personal ketch.. you live in my heart believe me.. just a point about your way of doing translations from life.. a movie is NOT reality.. if you insist to translate literally all your daily drama for the screen.. it will just not work it out.. that's the way that it is.. sorry.. didn't invent the premiss.. :)

[Roberto B]

the italian neorealists gave it to the world.. even the french saw it.. a good way for everyone to start to think how a movie can comprehend the reality.. the true story style doesn't convert/touch/buy (whatever) an achromatic heart.. sorry again.. but i'm quite sure that outside not all hearts and flowers are red.. :devil:

edit
in the meantime.. just to inform you that your born country felt a seismic vibration.. everything is okay but it was possible to listen italian outside in the streets.. during the night.. it is not a movie plot.. just a true story.. an online news plot.. ehehehehehe

ciao

[KETCH ROSSi]

I know and I fill it and I thank you for it, i might be smoking Pot even so I never touched a cigarette or drugs in my life, but I do fill as if I'm in the hearts of every one here, and that gives me true strength to move forward, as this is in deed a media of which I feed, so I do appreciate every comment, positive or negative, and for me there is no negative, there are just points and opinions of individuals, and I respect them as such.

On the fact of Reality vs. Movie, again, only when my Feature Film Directorial debut will become a reality and my first film comes pout then and only then true observation of its content can be made.

I believe to be a true artist, and I will continue to believe that till my last Breath of air, if what I will make does interest people, inspire them, give them a reason to believe in hope, then I'll have accomplished my most important goal, and if they do not like my work, then I'll appreciate their opinion, and thank them to have watched, in order to make an opinion.

ciao

[Roberto B]

positive or negative, and for me there is no negative, there are just points glad you see it.. there's no interest to put a label on it.. wth.. the most stupid human thing.

ciao

[Fredrik Callinggard]

On the fact of Reality vs. Movie, again, only when my Feature Film Directorial debut will become a reality and my first film comes pout then and only then true observation of its content can be made.

It doesn't matter if it's a true story or not there's always a choice by your character that choice is a direct translation of what that characters combined life experience has been up until that moment.

As that choice is made a premise is planted - all you need to do is to figure it out for you so you can tell the story. Without a premise there will most probably be no meaning for the viewer. It's like telling a joke without a punch line.

A premise should preferably be possible to formulate in one sentence and it's generally something like this... 'Jealousy leads to degeneration of your soul'.

Now when you have that as a premise you write the story with a conviction of that it's true and that conviction has to be projected to the viewer. So when the film is over he/ she will believe it to.

Now with a true story you have to figure out what is the driving force for your character. What makes her tick and what is the salvation for her and why. Then you have to convince your audience.

But trust me without it the film most probably will be meaningless no matter what. For me when I read your synopsis I was left empty. No feelings at all. I couldn't care less - so what that she was raped and then raped again and in the end all she knew is to be raped. Why would that be different from any other persons tragic life story? Convince me.

'A story which has an easily understood, compelling premise is said to be high-concept, whereas one whose premise is not easy to describe, or relatively small-scale or mundane, is said to be low-concept. A low-concept story is highly execution-dependent because the commercial viability of the project will depend largely on the quality of the creative endeavors of those involved, whereas a high-concept story may pull in audiences purely based on a simple premise.' - extract from Wikipedia

[Eren Ozkural]

Beside the absolutely brutal content, the reason I haven't been able to watch Irreversible in one sitting is because of the camera work. I never get motion sickness from "shaky cam" but jeez, that was ridiculous....

For what it's worth, I believe that storytelling conventions exist for a reason. There's no need to stick slavishly to a 3 act structure or neuter challenging scenes for a perfectly balanced character arc.

However, the plot didn't feel like it would translate into a movie very well. This story outline seemed too unpalatable to me. Yes I know, it mirrors real life and that's the story you want to tell but to quote the Simpsons:

"Hey mister, why're you painting that horse like a cow?"

"Cos cows don't look like cows on film"

"What do you do if you need a horse?"

"Eh, we usually tape a bunch of cats together"

Maybe you should consider sending out your message by using a little artistic license on reality.

That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

Good luck Ketch, all the best to you. :)

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I

A premise should preferably be possible to formulate in one sentence and it's generally something like this... 'Jealousy leads to degeneration of your soul'.


for most of the time its true, but inmho this type of movies are often very boring.
...you just know what will happen...maybe there is a little twist at the end to surprise you, but still boring.

when everybody would follow these rules we wouldnt have seen fellini, lynch, kubrick films :)

but i dont know how many 16 year old teenagers would pay a cinema ticket for such films today

[MJ KERBER]

Hey Ketch,

Since it sounds like you're still trying to raise money and interest for your film, I'd have someone proofread your one page.

There are some grammatical errors that should be fixed before sending this out to complete strangers.

Good luck,

Michael Jacob Kerber
D.P. / L.A.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

for most of the time its true, but inmho this type of movies are often very boring.
...you just know what will happen...maybe there is a little twist at the end to surprise you, but still boring.

when everybody would follow these rules we wouldnt have seen fellini, lynch, kubrick films :)

but i dont know how many 16 year old teenagers would pay a cinema ticket for such films today

Sorry to break your spirit but you'll find it in all of the above mentioned directors movies.

I think your confusing yourself - they had very good scripts with very good premises that helped them make VERY GOOD FILMS

[Joel Kaye]

this is a working title, but will not likely change, then again... but the slag-line has definitely room to change in any way, this was just something came out of my head

In Reservoir Dogs Quentin Tarantino shots the scene where the ear gets cut off two ways. One showing the ear being cut and another showing the shadow on the wall of the ear being cut. In the end he decided the shadow version had more impact.

You might actually be doing your movie a disservice showing too much in this particular case. I'd encourage you to shoot both options so you can cut it either way.



But trust me without it the film most probably will be meaningless no matter what. For me when I read your synopsis I was left empty. No feelings at all. I couldn't care less - so what that she was raped and then raped again and in the end all she knew is to be raped. Why would that be different from any other persons tragic life story? Convince me.

Frederik views this about the same as I do. I don't think you've got a movie with a hook yet. It's a cable movie of the week right now... and that's if this girl was national news. You'll need to execute it perfectly and start winning awards like Monster did. That's a high bar to set for yourself.

Just because it's true doesn't make it a movie. That is often hard for people close to the events to see. In the end, if you get the money, make the movie. The only people who need to believe in a movie to get it made are the investors. Doesn't mean they'll make their million back though.

Regardless, Good Luck!!!

[Daniel Reichenbach]

I believe to be a true artist, and I will continue to believe that till my last Breath of air

Artist is not a profession nor does it make sense to call yourself an artist. Other will decide, trust me and hope ;-)

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Sorry to break your spirit but you'll find it in all of the above mentioned directors movies.

I think your confusing yourself - they had very good scripts with very good premises that helped them make VERY GOOD FILMS

hi fredrik, a movie is much much more than a premise in one sentence...
its good that you have a different opinion...

if your next scripts get a multi million dollar funding i think you are on the right track-if not...well you can tell the story about premise and how confused people are.
btw. a premise is not what you are talking about

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

A premise should preferably be possible to formulate in one sentence and it's generally something like this... 'Jealousy leads to degeneration of your soul'.
You're thinking of a theme.

A premise is also generally a one-sentence blurb, but it's used to convey the basic situation/set-up of the particular project, as opposed to the message it intends to convey.

"A guy accidently travels back in time in a souped-up DeLorean and has to find his way back" is the premise of Back to the Future.

"Your parents were once kids just like you" is the (or at least a) theme of the same film.

The premise of Ketch's film would seem to be "This girl gets raped. A lot."

If I had to hazard a guess, the theme is perhaps "Love conquers all(??)."

[Fredrik Callinggard]

hi fredrik, a movie is much much more than a premise in one sentence...
btw. a premise is not what you are talking about

Of course I'm generalizing a little to be short and not have to sit up all night and write, but yes it's a premise that I'm talking about.


You're thinking of a theme.

A premise is also generally a one-sentence blurb, but it's used to convey the basic situation/set-up of the particular project, as opposed to the message it intends to convey.

"A guy accidently travels back in time in a souped-up DeLorean and has to find his way back" is the premise of Back to the Future.

You guys have clearly not read for example Lajos Egri's 'Art of dramatic writing'. I leave you with an internet page from American Film Institute that explains what I'm talking about and at the end there's also a little something about their thoughts of films that have several premises (for you Kaya)

http://www.fathom.com/course/21701762/session1.html

BTW If you haven't read that book I strongly recommend it. I find it to be an eye opener and by far the best book you'll find when it comes to structure yourself how to write "emotionally". Not talking about the same way of structuring as for example Syd Field, which I find is good to read for disciplining your writing. No I'm talking about how to find ways in writing so the emotional "drama" in your script actually works. Well read it and you'll understand what I'm trying to say hahaha

[Cüneyt Kaya]

i see, you are talking about books that you did read...yes very cool indeed.
let me guess, a how to direct book is right beside this book.

[Roberto B]

Egri is a must read. Syd Field?.. sure..

but there are many others.. mandatory reading such as McKee.. Vogler.. Deleuze.. sorry me couldn't resist.. just to mention but it's better to stop or someone will call me an arrogant elitist or worst..

edit
what's worst?.. ehehehehehe

[Roberto B]

btw..

http://www.amazon.com/Save-Last-Book-Screenwriting-Youll/dp/1932907009/ref=pd_sim_b_2/180-6641173-2374649

a funny read.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

i see, you are talking about books that you did read...yes very cool indeed.
let me guess, a how to direct book is right beside this book.

Of course Kaya rules are made to be broken but you need to know the rules before you can break them.

And yes... the basics of screen writing is in a way a science, so you can effectively study it. Don't forget that we're talking the basics here. As for directing I think it's a completely different thing and is more based on experience but it's never wrong to read what others have to say on that subject as well. Information is god.

Edit: As a director I believe that you should study screen writing and acting and both of them are sciences in different ways... so effectively there can be a book about directing hahaha

Correct me if I interpreted you wrong their Kaya, but if I didn't... stop being so juvenile :sifone:


Egri is a must read. Syd Field?.. sure..

Hahahaha I was just taking what I saw as the complete opposite to Egri...sorry!! Of course Robert McKee for example is a must hahaha

[Roberto Lequeux]

Could I petition to change the name of the guy? :)

Good luck on what is obviously a very daring and tough task. I hope you deliver something that can be of service for the good of those that were affected by such acts.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Of course Kaya rules are made to be broken but you need to know the rules before you can brake them.

And yes... the basics of screen writing is in a way a science, so you can effectively study it. Don't forget that we're talking the basics here. As for directing I think it's a completely different thing and is more based on experience but it's never wrong to read what others have to say on that subject as well. Information is god.

Edit: As a director I believe that you should study screen writing and acting and both of them are sciences in different ways... so effectively there can be a book about directing hahaha

Correct me if I interpreted you wrong their Kaya, but if I didn't... stop being so juvenile :sifone:



Hahahaha I was just taking what I saw as the complete opposite to Egri...sorry!! Of course Robert McKee for example is a must hahaha

hi fredrik, i did read all of them and some more.
but i believe that the subconsciousness is a much greater alley to manipulate an audience.

i know a lot of movies which are fullfilling every single point of those books and still suck (superman returns for example)

its more...much more, use the force to get there...hahaha

its the old discussion about form and content, it started with chaplin vs eisenstein.
but creating content through form is in my opinion the master class of moviemaking.

[Meryem Ersoz]

I think it is going to be very hard to make a story of redemption out of a description that reads like porn, regardless of the intention.

This story is so centered from the redeemer's penis' point-of-view, starting with the title, that seeing this girl as anything but an object of dispute and possession between a bad rapist and a good rapist is going to be challenging.

You should give her the camera and the million bucks and see what story she tells with it.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I like to thank you all for your good points and opinions, as well as your advises in some issues, and I truly hope I do not offend any of you when I say that in anything I have always done, I have always done it my way, and never look at what other were doing, and even so one might in deed argue that one should not call him self an Artist, I do just that, because I know I'm an Artist, if my work is appreciated or not, makes very little difference as I will still be an Artist, one which work is appreciated or one which work is not appreciated but an Artist nevertheless.

My point of view, both artistically and in truth to the events, are based in my own experience, both in life and in the arts, there are strong, but still changeable if need to, but at this point is way too premature to do any rethinking of how the story should be told.

Off course I will shoot diverse Shots of the same scenes, as I do want to have good options for editing, but this is the story, and I truly believe that it is s a story that once told in film the way I have it envisioned it will be understood very clearly, and again there is always those that will hate the violence and descriptive way of filmmaking, but that I'm prepared for.

I also agree that this is in deed a Business and I'm not stranger to it, but I will not make a commercial movie just so the investors get their money back, I will make movies to tell stories, and do so in the best way I can, following my vision, money must be made but that will never be the first thing I will worry about, as if my films will be good ones, money will be made, this is after all a high risk investment industry, it always has been and always will be.

I strive to do the best work I can, I love what I do, and believe in me and in my capacity of doing great work, so I go about it with no hesitation, and those that work with me and those that give me money are well aware of it all.

At last I must say that I, like many writers I know, dislike very much the writing of Synopsis and Themes, as I find it redundant to squish out few lines out of an entire script, there will be no details, tehre will be no full understanding and comprehension of the entirety of the story this way, and when I presented to the investors, and those that have already money in it, they were not convinced to invest by the reading of the Synopsis or the few Script pages they read after, but because of how I told them the story,, now after filming the trailer I know it will be much easier to convey this story.


ciao

[Alexis Hanawalt]

I think it is going to be very hard to make a story of redemption out of a description that reads like porn, regardless of the intention.

This story is so centered from the redeemer's penis' point-of-view, starting with the title, that seeing this girl as anything but an object of dispute and possession between a bad rapist and a good rapist is going to be challenging.

You should give her the camera and the million bucks and see what story she tells with it.

This is the other thing. The perpetuation of the female victim psychology in cinema. Audiences tend not to have a taste for it the way budding filmmakers do... lending its inclusion in just about any film an amateurish quality. Think about the clumsiness of a poem a 13 year old boy would write to a girl. It's kinda like that.

That same 13 year old boy might mature and one day make "Le notti di Cabiria."

Feminist film critique brought a lot of this to the forefront years ago... so not taking heed, at best, may make your storytelling old fashioned... in the kind of way that doesn't help us progress as a society.

Watch the commentary on Oliver Stone's Salvador where he talks about the nun rape scene, and recounts with embarrassment how antiquated the depiction is by today's more nuanced and informed standards.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I can understand what conclusions some of you might make out of a simple Working Title and one page of the Story, especially written by a none English writer.

I tend to disagree with were and how some of you think this story can and should go, and if we all were to make the same movies, well then there will be no diversity.

If I miss interpret your opinions then is an other story :)

ciao

[Jay A. Kelley]

I can understand what conclusions some of you might make out of a simple Working Title and one page of the Story, especially written by a none English writer.

I tend to disagree with were and how some of you think this story can and should go, and if we all were to make the same movies, well then there will be no diversity.

If I miss interpret your opinions then is an other story :)

ciao

Hey Ketch,

I am going to look at this from a business standpoint...

Title... Shooting hot women... Various intense scenes, perhaps a name here or there... Sex, violence... Shot on RED with beautiful lighting.. Enough story to keep it from being just soft porn....

Do that and it will sell. The trick is to walk that line that keeps it from becoming too expensive. Get a name in there and you will have some flexibility to your budget.

I know people want PURE art, I know people want some "worth making" and blah blah blah.. Whatever, if they can do that the more power to them. As for me, it's show "business".. So make something you can sell that will show off your talents and the "assets" of the talent you hire! Make some money and then make the movie you've dreamed of.

Good for you.. Make something that sells!! I like "high end" features as much as the next guy, but I like it when my friends make money even more. knowing you I'm sure you will find a way to do both.

Jay

Jay

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hey Ketch,

I am going to look at this from a business standpoint...

Title... Shooting hot women... Various intense scenes, perhaps a name here or there... Sex, violence... Shot on RED with beautiful lighting.. Enough story to keep it from being just soft porn....

Do that and it will sell. The trick is to walk that line that keeps it from becoming too expensive. Get a name in there and you will have some flexibility to your budget.

I know people want PURE art, I know people want some "worth making" and blah blah blah.. Whatever, if they can do that the more power to them. As for me, it's show "business".. So make something you can sell that will show off your talents and the "assets" of the talent you hire! Make some money and then make the movie you've dreamed of.

Good for you.. Make something that sells!! I like "high end" features as much as the next guy, but I like it when my friends make money even more. knowing you I'm sure you will find a way to do both.

Jay

Jay

Thanks Jay, that is the intent for this story.

I despise porn, and never will get to film something even close to it, all my writing comes from passion and meaning, as if there is no meaning there is no point, at list not for me.

I'm also a Businessman but this industry I chose for its beauty and capacity is given to an individual to create, and yes I do like to make money, both for those involved and for myself so to have backing for my next film, and this is also the main reason for this feature to be shot first.

I much appreciate both your opinion and confidence Jay.

ciao

[Yannick Hagman]

the basics of screen writing is in a way a science, so you can effectively study it.

Yes and no. Before it needs to be original or you're going exploition. Much of the synopsis here reads like just that.

Premises: Some films definitely have universal or multiple premises. While they often apply, you will have a hard time to write such a one-liner for Oldboy for instance. It contains an underlying revange-theme which is very present but the film approaches it in a very unique way with plenty of messages.

A similar theme, although more about human trafficking, has already be done already. But actually very good: Lilja 4-ever. The question is: Can you really catch the subject in that profoundness you are aspiring? Judged from the story telling aspect of your pictures and the synopsis I have seen so far from you I have some question marks, but I certainly haven't seen all you do there Ketch.

If yes, a million budget is a very high number for it IMHO. Who pays for it by the way? Maybe it helps to shot a short about it and see if it works out for others than you as well.

[KETCH ROSSi]

It is my intention to go as deep as I can in this film, and bring an original story to the screen with my point of view of this subject based on the Story of an unfortunate but strong young girl.

We are i the process of preparing to shoot a Trailer Teaser for this film, to do just that.

One Mil. it actually haas a very short span, but the film for that matter can be made for much less, then again as soon as a name is thrown in the mix then will be needed far more then just One Mil.

Again, I dislike writing Synopsis and I give it, very little weight and it does reflects I know, but I have always been one of those that likes to surprise people with the final product, as it is there were I apply my self.

I do not write professionally, and do not write scripts for sale, I write to convey a story to be told, I do so in four languages, I know of the errors that I make, both in grammar and composition, at the end none of this will be of importance when the film is finished and viewed.

ciao

[Joe G.]

"A similar theme, although more about human trafficking, has already be done already. But actually very good: Lilja 4-ever. "

Excellent movie. Ketch should watch that one.

Here's my take on this proposal/thread:

I got in two sentences, the title and the tagline. That was it. I have NO desire to see this at all.

I will not be alone in dismissing it so quickly.

1. Title
"Rape of a Beauty" will not "sell" in the USA. People aren't going to be walking up to the ticket counter with a date asking for two seats for "Rape of a Beauty." Maybe in Europe. Not here.

If you just gave it the name of the lead character: "Juliana," or "Rebecca" or "Sarah X." whatever. You'd at least get over that massive hurdle.

2. Tagline
Lose it. It's not about being raped repeatedly (is it?). It's about OVERCOMING and triumphing over insurmountable odds, or some such variation.

It's the difference between "HELL NO!" and "What's this about?"

Good luck (you'll need it!).

[KETCH ROSSi]

"A similar theme, although more about human trafficking, has already be done already. But actually very good: Lilja 4-ever. "

Excellent movie. Ketch should watch that one.

Here's my take on this proposal/thread:

I got in two sentences, the title and the tagline. That was it. I have NO desire to see this at all.

I will not be alone in dismissing it so quickly.

1. Title
"Rape of a Beauty" will not "sell" in the USA. People aren't going to be walking up to the ticket counter with a date asking for two seats for "Rape of a Beauty." Maybe in Europe. Not here.

If you just gave it the name of the lead character: "Juliana," or "Rebecca" or "Sarah X." whatever. You'd at least get over that massive hurdle.

2. Tagline
Lose it. It's not about being raped repeatedly (is it?). It's about OVERCOMING and triumphing over insurmountable odds, or some such variation.

It's the difference between "HELL NO!" and "What's this about?"

Good luck (you'll need it!).


I will see it for sure.

The title is nothing more then a working title, and as such there always is a good chance of been changed, but not at this point, I do agree that it is not an easy title to spell out, but then again this is about something that happens every single day, and if people choose to Ignore it is a different story, I can't sugar coated just for the hell of it, again it will not be my decision here, but that of the Distributor.

I have said this before, no movie is for all people, some will like what others will hate, it is the way things always are.

As far as the Tagline, I do agree with most as it wasn't really even supposed to be there at this time, and do believe that Tag lines belong to the final step of marketing, as well as the final decision for the Title .

Thanks, I think luck is something that no one can leave with out :)

ciao

[Tom Lowe]

Make the film you want to make, man. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'll watch it.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Make the film you want to make, man. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'll watch it.

Thanks Tom, your support is much appreciated.

ciao

[Nils J. Nesse]

Sounds like Abel Ferrara.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Sounds like Abel Ferrara.

I hope you or no one else here never compares me to some one like Ferrara, because of his mouth :) As I will never disrespect any one the way He does.

His work is an other story all together, and I do respect it, if I like it that is all an other story.

ciao

[Owen James]

Hi Ketch,

Be careful... With the synopsis as it is you're creating a type of erotica which chauvinistically fetishizes rape wrapped in a guise of sympathy. I think this synopsis would best be served by researching case studies of recovering rape victims or those with addictions to sado/masochistic behavior, otherwise all you'll have is a rape fantasy. The psychology behind the dramatic irony at the end is interesting as it parallels exactly what the movie is asking the audience to do throughout the film: painfully enjoy raping the female image.

If this is not your intention I apologize, but that is the message you are sending.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hi Ketch,

Be careful... With the synopsis as it is you're creating a type of erotica which chauvinistically fetishizes rape wrapped in a guise of sympathy. I think this synopsis would best be served by researching case studies of recovering rape victims or those with addictions to sado/masochistic behavior, otherwise all you'll have is a rape fantasy. The psychology behind the dramatic irony at the end is interesting as it parallels exactly what the movie is asking the audience to do throughout the film: painfully enjoy raping the female image.

If this is not your intention I apologize, but that is the message you are sending.

Absolutely not the intention here, and do remember the fact that this is "A TRUE STORY"

I can understand however how you could come to such conclusion, however the story in its entirety is clear on what it is and what it is not.

This is a delicate subject and I had for long time no desire to touch it, for more then one reason, few of them close to home, but at last here I am in the making of it, cause I do believe it is a story that must be told, as at the end offers a yet an other view at the subject.

I have decided to do this, also carefully accepting the responsibilities that come with, and I'm in touch with more then one institution which deals with such victims, and one of them will be the one to receive 100% of the Proceeds from the event shot as part of this film.

ciao

[Anthony Gratl]

I like "high end" features as much as the next guy, but I like it when my friends make money even more.

that's too bad for you jay. you should sell shit instead of shooting it, cause retail is where the money is.....

[Yannick Hagman]

Careful there: Straight forward drama is the hardest thing to find an audience for. Together with the delicate subject you put yourself on very thin ice. You might get hand claps, but probably not from your intended audience.

While this story seems important for you, changes are good that no-one cares. There is cruelty around the world. You see it endlessly repeating on CNN.
But: Who cares? And who wants to see something cruel after a hard day at work?

Now Lilja 4-ever did find an audience in the arthouse world, but the director is also one of the most sensitive directors out there and was able to do approach it in a personal way, a gift he shares with very few directors - mind that he had an audience after "fucking amal - show me love" and "tillsamens" who knew what to expect from him before. It's also shot on a very shoestring budget.

You might revise your budget:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0300140/business

[Cüneyt Kaya]

make the movie if you like.
what about doing it as a documentary?

[Roberto B]

make the movie if you like.
what about doing it as a documentary?lol :devil:

edit
that kind of.. make the film you want is not the best pat-tap to help who we like.. if we like..
motion pic is not still..
ketch is a decent guy.. he can be really helped.. comes to my mind that song sung on the billy shears voice..

[Kingslea Bueltel]

I feel like I should offer a female perspective here. Ketch, I don't know you personally, but based on your posts and the strong support and love you garner from this community, I do believe that you have the best intentions with this project.

That said, it seems to me that some important things are being overlooked. While it may be a true story and you may feel that a brutal, in-your-face treatment of such tragic subject matter elevates the film to some form of high art, I think there are big contradictions inherent in the title, the treatment, and your proposed execution. The title diminishes and objectifies the woman. The logline marginalizes her plight.

I understand disliking having to write good treatments, synopses, log and tag lines - but they are necessary evils. There are rules, strict rules, that everyone has to play by when trying to sell an idea and get a film made, and right now you seem hell-bent on flouting every one of them. You can be an upstart, rebellious Artist all you want, but if you don't choose your battles no one will see or support your art, and then what have you really accomplished?

Several times you've brought up the goal of donating proceeds to victim groups; if that's really one of your chief goals, then you DO have a responsibility to make this commercial and bankable. What good does it do from a charitable standpoint if no one wants to see this or spend money on it?

Second, the way you've described the project (and the title as others have pointed out) makes the film sound like some sort of hideous torture porn. While I'm sure that isn't your intent, when dealing with such subject matter I think you owe some sensitivity to the women you claim to want to help. Will the title or the film itself function as something that will victimize them all over again?

If you truly mean for this to raise awareness and money towards something so horrific, it would be best in all regards to have the people actually affected by rape on your side. The way it sounds now, Oprah wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. To make this something that does some good, you need victims showing up en masse at your premiere. You want RAINN (www.rainn.org) and vocal, prominent anti-rape and abuse advocates taking up your battle cry.

Everyone here admires your courage and dedication towards making the world take notice of difficult things. All of the suggestions being offered to you come from a good place. I think you should take a step back (because I know how personal the subject is - and you may be too close to see the forest for the trees) and consider the implications of your work on a larger scale.

Best of luck to you, Ketch. If bravery were easy, we'd all be heroes.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks again guys for your participation, inputs, and links you have provided.

For the record, the One Mil. budget came about do to the possible participation of a TV star which would take just about half of the current budget, then there is an irising possibility of a Movie medium star to want to participate, and if that happens then the budget will go to Six Mil. as She will take about 4 Mil, but for obvious reasons the Budget of the film it self will cost more to shoot.

If none of the two Stars will be involved for any given reasons, wanting to cut, edit, or any reason at all, then the budget of the film will go back to its original numbers, which are below Half Mil.

ciao

[KETCH ROSSi]

I feel like I should offer a female perspective here. Ketch, I don't know you personally, but based on your posts and the strong support and love you garner from this community, I do believe that you have the best intentions with this project.

That said, it seems to me that some important things are being overlooked. While it may be a true story and you may feel that a brutal, in-your-face treatment of such tragic subject matter elevates the film to some form of high art, I think there are big contradictions inherent in the title, the treatment, and your proposed execution. The title diminishes and objectifies the woman. The logline marginalizes her plight.

I understand disliking having to write good treatments, synopses, log and tag lines - but they are necessary evils. There are rules, strict rules, that everyone has to play by when trying to sell an idea and get a film made, and right now you seem hell-bent on flouting every one of them. You can be an upstart, rebellious Artist all you want, but if you don't choose your battles no one will see or support your art, and then what have you really accomplished?

Several times you've brought up the goal of donating proceeds to victim groups; if that's really one of your chief goals, then you DO have a responsibility to make this commercial and bankable. What good does it do from a charitable standpoint if no one wants to see this or spend money on it?

Second, the way you've described the project (and the title as others have pointed out) makes the film sound like some sort of hideous torture porn. While I'm sure that isn't your intent, when dealing with such subject matter I think you owe some sensitivity to the women you claim to want to help. Will the title or the film itself function as something that will victimize them all over again?

If you truly mean for this to raise awareness and money towards something so horrific, it would be best in all regards to have the people actually affected by rape on your side. The way it sounds now, Oprah wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. To make this something that does some good, you need victims showing up en masse at your premiere. You want RAINN (www.rainn.org) and vocal, prominent anti-rape and abuse advocates taking up your battle cry.

Everyone here admires your courage and dedication towards making the world take notice of difficult things. All of the suggestions being offered to you come from a good place. I think you should take a step back (because I know how personal the subject is - and you may be too close to see the forest for the trees) and consider the implications of your work on a larger scale.

Best of luck to you, Ketch. If bravery were easy, we'd all be heroes.


Thanks you Kingslea,

much appreciate your comments.

I already have eliminated the Slag line, which was really never one, I do strongly believe that the Slagline and Title still belongs to be decided at the end of the filming with those that will be releasing the film, and again this is just but a working title which clearly describes its content, harsh yes, but thrutfull to its content.

I'm well aware of the many implications of the making of this film, and I'm close to more then one group for Abused women, and some of them suggested that the contents be reduced in their nudity and Violence as to be received from such an audience like Oprah, while others strongly object to this, and much prefer and would like the nudity and brutality to go hand on hand exactly because it victimizes the woman in a clear and unmistakable way leaving very little to interpretation which in this case is a positive.

I agree with both, but this remains my film and my telling, so I take their advices and keep them close, but I will at end execute the filming as I planned from the very beginning since accepting to do this project.

Every one takes risk in life at one point or an other, me, I have taken risk since I was a teenager and never was I allowed to stop doing so in order to survive.

Rules are made to be broken and unfortunately I will brake many of them, and not because I want to, but because I must, or this film will be turn in to an other commercial film, or an other film about a matter that needs to be told as it is, a cruel abuse to humanity, and not be sugar coated at all, the audience at the end might be less, much less, but I'm sure the awareness it will arise will be larger then many film which have already touched this subject.

You are also right when you say I carry a responsibility and this is why I must do it the way I'm doing it.

Also true is that both the Synopsis and Theme, must be written carefully as to convey the idea of the project to sale, but then again this project it is not for sale, at list not the Script, but the finished film, and then there will be no need for Neither the Synopsis, the Theme, or the entire script for that matter.

I also much appreciate more then words could ever say, the way the every one here has accepted me in this community, and warms me to know that, as this is also the first time in my life that such has happened, so I always will keep this too in my mind, I do not want to disappoint this community with my work, I want for them to be proud, and be inspired by it, and their hearts be touched, so I will execute this projects as well as all my projects with respect, integrity, but I must make my films the way I know how, following my heart.

ciao

[Meryem Ersoz]

Thanks Tom, your support is much appreciated.


Is this about offering support? Or feedback?

I don't think there is any lack of support from redusers...in fact, earnest feedback is a pretty honest form of support -- perhaps the most honest form.

It's neither fun nor easy to criticize people in your community, especially the people who you want to see succeed.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Is this about offering support? Or feedback?

I don't think there is any lack of support from redusers...in fact, earnest feedback is a pretty honest form of support -- perhaps the most honest form.

It's neither fun nor easy to criticize people in your community, especially the people who you want to see succeed.

It is about Feed back, which that is Support, which I have been getting since the very first replay, and for that I'm thankful.

The criticism that comes form some of the replays here is well accepted, much more of that which comes from complete strangers, and this is the reason I posted, this was not an easy project to accept, given my background experience in this natter, which I'm still fighting to put behind, but at the end I decided in favor exactly for the same very reason, I was hesitant to accepted.

I thank you all again for both your support and honest criticism.

ciao

[Joel Kaye]

She will take about 4 Mil, but for obvious reasons the Budget of the film it self will cost more to shoot.

This really sounds like trouble to me.

A lot of actors will shoot nearly anything for 4 million. There aren't very many stars that can make that kind of money back. If you don't have a distribution company on board and participating financially before the picture is shot because OF that star then you KNOW that star isn't worth the money.

Many big stars have been in a movie that failed to get theatrical. They all have been in a movie that failed to open well. You get the star in order to make the distribution deal. Don't bet on any "name" actually selling tickets.

However, if you've got a bottomless pit of money being thrown at you...

[KETCH ROSSi]

This really sounds like trouble to me.

A lot of actors will shoot nearly anything for 4 million. There aren't very many stars that can make that kind of money back. If you don't have a distribution company on board and participating financially before the picture is shot because OF that star then you KNOW that star isn't worth the money.

Many big stars have been in a movie that failed to get theatrical. They all have been in a movie that failed to open well. You get the star in order to make the distribution deal. Don't bet on any "name" actually selling tickets.

However, if you've got a bottomless pit of money being thrown at you...

The case is the opposite here, it is actually a combination of one of the possible investors and a Distribution company which are asking for a Star, preferring the Movie Star to the TV Star.

At the end of the day the final decision remains mine, and will be determined by more then just a Star that could play the role, and no, there is no Bottomless pit of money, in fact the pit is extremely Shallow, and could get shallower depending on the way I will handle some of the players that want to participate under certain rules.


ciao

[Joel Kaye]

The case is the opposite here, it is actually a combination of one of the possible investors and a Distribution company which are asking for a Star, preferring the Movie Star to the TV Star.


Every distribution company is going to ask for certain talent. If they aren't willing to pay for the talent they ask for up front that should tell you A LOT. There are just too many instances of overpaid stars out there. Sure they may get a $5 million dollar movie a $2 million distribution deal for their $4m salary. But that's worse than shooting the movie for a milion with lesser names who bring in $300K.

I just can't forget the story of Ballast. $750k budget that won best director and cinematography at Sundance 2008... best distribution offer was $50k. I have some friends who made a comedy with nearly the same budget, name actors... same distribution offer. It's brutal out there.

[Yannick Hagman]

I just can't forget the story of Ballast. $750k budget that won best director and cinematography at Sundance 2008... best distribution offer was $50k. I have some friends who made a comedy with nearly the same budget, name actors... same distribution offer. It's brutal out there.

Oh my gosh.

[Kholi Hicks]

Hey Ketch,

I am going to look at this from a business standpoint...

Title... Shooting hot women... Various intense scenes, perhaps a name here or there... Sex, violence... Shot on RED with beautiful lighting.. Enough story to keep it from being just soft porn....

Do that and it will sell. The trick is to walk that line that keeps it from becoming too expensive. Get a name in there and you will have some flexibility to your budget.

I know people want PURE art, I know people want some "worth making" and blah blah blah.. Whatever, if they can do that the more power to them. As for me, it's show "business".. So make something you can sell that will show off your talents and the "assets" of the talent you hire! Make some money and then make the movie you've dreamed of.

Good for you.. Make something that sells!! I like "high end" features as much as the next guy, but I like it when my friends make money even more. knowing you I'm sure you will find a way to do both.

Jay

Jay

Best post in Thread.

Dangerous material to work with. Wouldn't this effort be best channeled into creating content that educates people on the [harsh] topic? Less a movie and more like videos and an awareness campaign? I am no fan of watching anything that has rape in it.

ANyway, good luck.

[Kholi Hicks]

I feel like I should offer a female perspective here. Ketch, I don't know you personally, but based on your posts and the strong support and love you garner from this community, I do believe that you have the best intentions with this project.

That said, it seems to me that some important things are being overlooked. While it may be a true story and you may feel that a brutal, in-your-face treatment of such tragic subject matter elevates the film to some form of high art, I think there are big contradictions inherent in the title, the treatment, and your proposed execution. The title diminishes and objectifies the woman. The logline marginalizes her plight.

I understand disliking having to write good treatments, synopses, log and tag lines - but they are necessary evils. There are rules, strict rules, that everyone has to play by when trying to sell an idea and get a film made, and right now you seem hell-bent on flouting every one of them. You can be an upstart, rebellious Artist all you want, but if you don't choose your battles no one will see or support your art, and then what have you really accomplished?

Several times you've brought up the goal of donating proceeds to victim groups; if that's really one of your chief goals, then you DO have a responsibility to make this commercial and bankable. What good does it do from a charitable standpoint if no one wants to see this or spend money on it?

Second, the way you've described the project (and the title as others have pointed out) makes the film sound like some sort of hideous torture porn. While I'm sure that isn't your intent, when dealing with such subject matter I think you owe some sensitivity to the women you claim to want to help. Will the title or the film itself function as something that will victimize them all over again?

If you truly mean for this to raise awareness and money towards something so horrific, it would be best in all regards to have the people actually affected by rape on your side. The way it sounds now, Oprah wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. To make this something that does some good, you need victims showing up en masse at your premiere. You want RAINN (www.rainn.org) and vocal, prominent anti-rape and abuse advocates taking up your battle cry.

Everyone here admires your courage and dedication towards making the world take notice of difficult things. All of the suggestions being offered to you come from a good place. I think you should take a step back (because I know how personal the subject is - and you may be too close to see the forest for the trees) and consider the implications of your work on a larger scale.

Best of luck to you, Ketch. If bravery were easy, we'd all be heroes.

I got the same thing from this. Does this mean I'm a female, though? Oh Noes...

Just kidding (and trying to lighten up this thread). This coincides with what I just posted above. If it's a subject that's important to the creator then why not start a high profile video campaign instead of doing a narrative feature film that runs the risk of glorifying such a terrible thing?

I'mma go back to my PG/PG-13 content now.

[Kholi Hicks]

Every distribution company is going to ask for certain talent. If they aren't willing to pay for the talent they ask for up front that should tell you A LOT. There are just too many instances of overpaid stars out there. Sure they may get a $5 million dollar movie a $2 million distribution deal for their $4m salary. But that's worse than shooting the movie for a milion with lesser names who bring in $300K.

I just can't forget the story of Ballast. $750k budget that won best director and cinematography at Sundance 2008... best distribution offer was $50k. I have some friends who made a comedy with nearly the same budget, name actors... same distribution offer. It's brutal out there.

Yeah, but was it FUNNY? Huh? HUH?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Unfortunately I don't have the health to start any type of campaign, and making this film is for now the best contribution I can make, but this is not only about that, this is also about Movie Making, and for this Movie I have chosen this Touche subject.

I do appreciate all comments truly, and from the beginning as I set out for this, I intended nothing else then making it as sensitive to the cause as well as entertaining as possible, giving the audience both a true fill of the suffering of Rape victims as well as hopefully making a stand to let people know that some one can always do something to help others, they just have to take chances.

ciao

[jpp]

I just can't forget the story of Ballast. $750k budget that won best director and cinematography at Sundance 2008... best distribution offer was $50k. I have some friends who made a comedy with nearly the same budget, name actors... same distribution offer. It's brutal out there.

But there's an inherent contradiction here. If filmmakers want to make personal and idiosyncratic movies, they can't reasonably expect to draw mass-audiences in sufficient numbers to cover production and distribution costs, when we're talking about hundreds of thousands of admission tickets just to break even.

How many people today buy "literary" novels? Go to string quartet concerts? Read lyric poetry? Study the Old Masters? Why would the numbers be any better for American "art films", even assuming the films really do achieve some measure of art, which is rarely the case?

The public interest simply isn't there in large enough numbers to support these ventures, and drumming up interest is next to impossible given the costs of distribution and advertising, and the range of competition.

As I've said a million times before, the market place alone will never support a quality alternative cinema. Even making your money back with brazenly commercial material is hard enough.

[KETCH ROSSi]

But there's an inherent contradiction here. If filmmakers want to make personal and idiosyncratic movies, they can't reasonably expect to draw mass-audiences in sufficient numbers to cover production and distribution costs, when we're talking about hundreds of thousands of admission tickets just to break even.

The public interest simply isn't there in large enough numbers to support these ventures, and drumming up interest is prohibitively expensive these days, given the costs of distribution and advertising.

As I've said a million times before, the market place alone will never support a quality alternative cinema. Even making your money back with brazenly commercial material is hard enough.

True.

Still I will never change my ways just to make it easier on my self.

BUt it is definitely to take in consideration all true factors expressed here in more then one replay, and in fact this are and continue to be all concerns which get address on each talk along the way.

But most importantly I still think that some here think that I'm going to or intend to make a Soft Porn, this is far, far away from my intention, I want to make a DRAMA, with Nudity content simply because of it's subject which expresses not only Physical abuse but Sexual abuse, and I firmly believe that some Nudity, especially Implied Nudity is a must, more strongly so, when it is shown in the mist of the Blood from the Beating, as this is the reality of things, if it will be appreciated as a film, well that will remain to be seen, and I'm well aware of it, but I hope I'll be there to find out for my self.

ciao

[Yannick Hagman]

As I've said a million times before, the market place alone will never support a quality alternative cinema.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The swedish film "As it is in heaven" was the longest running movie in my Town. Fucking Amal also made it's money back, and so did many other micro-budget arthouse films.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The swedish film "As it is in heaven" was the longest running movie in my Town. Fucking Amal also made it's money back, and so did many other arthouse pictures.

And this is also very True, and I work on this project to make it one of this cases, positive about both the story, and my work, together with that of the people involved in it.

ciao

[jpp]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The swedish film "As it is in heaven" was the longest running movie in my Town. Fucking Amal also made it's money back, and so did many other micro-budget arthouse films.

Nobody's saying it never happens. It just doesn't happen enough or with sufficient meritocracy, at least in the U.S., to sustain an art-house cinema tradition.

I haven't seen either of the titles you mention, so can't comment.

[david farland]

Ketch....few thoughts, good luck


Rape of a Beauty
But she is a victim of her alcoholic boyfriend
she’s not…she’s victim of herself.

And in order to satisfy his alcohol addiction, she is forced to strip dance
male voyeuristic fantasy – why is the plot turning to his/our fantasy so quickly and ignoring her story? She (and her reasons for putting herself in this position) have quickly been forgotten. Ho hum.

Unfortunately she is too shy and makes little money.
She’s further diminished, looked down upon (father to daughter like?) and judged for a role you’ve placed her in with still no premise/reason.

So Robert prostitutes her to his friend, which rape her, one after the other, again and again, while he watches.
Her point of view/story is still being ignored and the unabaited male voyeuristic fantasy rolls on.

Sabrina wants to end this, but she knows too well that if she says anything to anyone, he would kill her,
Stereotype premise that audiences may or may not have accepted in 1910, but audiences want more reasons in 2010.

and replace her with Cindy, her teenage sister,
more male fantasy (to fuck younger sister)

of which she is responsible since the death of her parents,
death of adult supervision, learning and guidance. Their death suggests another reason for Sabrina’s position. You have not established why she is really in this predicament. Sorry to drone on.

so she does nothing and continues to endure her suffering in silence.
Okay, I’ve lumbered thru the male gritty fantasy stuff. This turns to soft porn but still with no answers and I’m left to think did I leave my window down in the car as I suspend judgement or even commentary on the real reason’s she’s in this position.

Stacey, one of the dancers from the strip club stops by to see Sabrina and convinces her in to getting out of the house
okay girls are doing it! Bit of light relief to the feminine side but suggests typical trifle effort by women in similar position (prisoners in male world). Still without a reason!

and go with her to a casting call for a big photo shoot
Is this all women do in America…go from their teenage bedroom to the mall, to their abusive boyfriend’s pool party, photo shoot, strip club, drug den? Little stereotyped…works (a bit)

There Sabrina meets Marco, the photographer,
Knight in shining armour! Women’s fantasy for one dominant male to get them out of their male suppressive relationship with another. Go figure!

which loves her and gives her a lead role in the shoot, with a promise to bring her fame and wealth.
He is the giver of all good, in a world where she has no control. Not much of a chic flic yet.

Sabrina, excited of Marco’s intention and opportunity, tells Robert.
Oh come on Ketch, she’s not that dumb.Now you’ve really created a blonde ditz with the intelligence of an 8 yo.

Only to suffer the worst beating and brutal rape ever
I would have slapped her for being that dumb also (for telling me). Still no premise for rape except to lay on the abuse.

Day’s later, barely recovering, still badly bruised and in severe pain, she arrives at the photo shoot very late
Why would she go to a photo shoot black and blue?

Marco is furious
Okay, you’ve set up the justification for one man to beat another (i.e. for beating an innocent person)

then fury turns to pure rage as he pulls the truth out of her, swearing to put an end to it.
You’re giving the bullies punching buddy, God like status, as he prepares to slam his fists into the man who slammed his fists into her.
Revenge/justice okay but I thought this was a women’s story.

Sabrina and Marco fall in love.
I can hear the birds singing.
You’re setting up a scene where Sabrina has turned to one male who beat the shit out of her and now is turning to another who beats the shit out of him.
She’s still attracted/stuck in this world and emotionally hasn’t moved - where your plot has.
You’ve set her up as an emotional lightweight who has had all this heavy shit happen to her and can disregard it.
This tells the audience to immediately treat her/this scenario as fantasy and not a serious salvation or redemption as she has not escaped from her childhood (or adult) demons.


But the brutal memories of abuse mark their relationship destined to fail.
Of course

They can’t make love, no matter how gently Marco tries.
More male fantasy

Months go by with no changes, and in fear of losing him, in one last desperate attempt, Sabrina begs Marco to force himself in to her.
From the beaten to the sacrificial lamb now, that transformation is nearly complete.

At first he refuses, then does what she asks
…if you want me to fuck you and your sister, ah gee..well if I have too!

after she undresses, he ties her, and penetrates her. Tears from his eyes, drip on her back
…interesting parallel to the drips of other stuff he’s giving her.

as she struggles to free her self.
She’s never free in this plot.

He is about to stop.
The dominator having second thoughts. But he still went through with it.

He unties her and they make love for the first time

Ketch, if you’re to write a serious movie it begins here. You need to ‘untie’ all of her history.
Establish why she was in this position of being dominated… because you haven’t told the audience. They need to know this.
Why is she the victim? The answer to this is the key to the whole movie.
The forces that keep her in this situation is the balance of the movie.
It not about what males can give or take away.
It about……………….?
Well you tell me, tell me in a word or two.
You sound like a person who will write about struggle thru life. What’s the key that changes her mind?
I like the cladding to your movie, but I don’t want a thin veneer.
I want to know truth…the truth about her. How she got in this position?
She’ a beauty…yeah? Establish her as a ‘Beauty’.
Setup the scene where she is captured. Was she eight?
Create plausible walls, barriers….not soapie ones.
This movie is how she behaves to these insurmountable walls and what’s the real key that changes her mind….. not some male giveth/taketh away stuff?

Dave

[KETCH ROSSi]

WOW David,

what a post, I like your enquires (even so I prefer to avoid the word F%@#!%!) and all your questions are good ones, but this is just but a page of a story, A TRUE STORY, plain and simple there is no moviemaking here, not yet, just the telling of a True Person in a True situation.

There are too many questions to answer a single one, and can't answer really much at this point, and there is a reason why I didn't post the full script, as so much has to change, but it must be done so with out turning this in just an other movie, this is a real story.

How did my mother stay with my step father for so long allowing him to beat the F^#%^##^ Shit out of her on a regular bases and while then forced to watch us getting beaten almost lifless???? Well I haven't ask her, She is no longer, or I would have, believe me.

How do abused women stay and continue to be abused? There are many reasons, and this continues to happen every single day.



All I can answer at this point is that your input, even so at certain lines a bit way out there, is much appreciated, and I did posted here because I wanted to touch this here first and get replays and feed back by those of which I care, and I'm very pleased of your and other member's feed back.

Unfortunately I don't have all the answers right now, but you are far from what this film is about.

What is very sad is to read some of the files of abused women, if you were to read just but a few as I have, then you would understand that this is far from a Man fantasy this is the cruel reality of facts of the world in which we leave.

David I have always appreciated your comments and made a good read of your posts, and so I appreciate your feed back here as well, I hope I haven't offended you or your religion believes with this Theme, just don't forget that this is not a movie, at list not yet, this is a true story, so I don't have the answers to your questions, but what I can say is that you are truly so far from what this story will be, and I could understand if I had Pornographic pictures or even just simple full Nudity pictures any were as to give a hint of me been a fan of Soft porn or what ever, I have the deepest respect for women, and would never be participant in any Porn or soft porn films, not ever, but this is A TRUE STORY, which I was almost forced to bring to life, and I'm doing so with in mind the harshens of what I'm going against, but I'm doing it just the same.

ciao

[Joel Kaye]

A TRUE STORY, plain and simple there is no moviemaking here, not yet, just the telling of a True Person in a True situation.


True doesn't matter. There are all kinds of true things that audiences simply will not accept. If you want it to be true make a documentary. If you want to make this a decent movie with an empowering message you're going to have to find a way to give all the women in this story a lot more power to take control.

Right now your message to women is find a better guy.

The idea that a bunch of strippers try to save the girl by taking her to a photo shoot is... well... bad. I don't think that idea is even fixable. Make the photographer a woman.... that'd be one place to start.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I don't think it has to do with that you need to write anything else but the truth Ketchi. i think the only interesting part so far is that it's a true story.

The problem for me Ketchi is that it doesn't seem to me that you're taking yourself the time or the guts to actually learn why this is, who she is? It doesn't seem from what I've read both in your synopsis and in your posts that you actually take her serious? I've read nothing from you which actually contains substance - anything that contains insight of what her life truly was. WHO SHE TRULY IS.

That's what important. At least to me. That is what I want to see.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I don't think it has to do with that you need to write anything else but the truth Ketchi. i think the only interesting part so far is that it's a true story.

The problem for me Ketchi is that it doesn't seem to me that you're taking yourself the time or the guts to actually learn why this is, who she is? It doesn't seem from what I've read both in your synopsis and in your posts that you actually take her serious? I've read nothing from you which actually contains substance - anything that contains insight of what her life truly was. WHO SHE TRULY IS.

That's what important. At least to me. That is what I want to see.



I'm in the know of everything about her, more then would I ever wanted to, and it is not because I don't know or care to know, is because I have chosen not to write about it here.

All I wanted was to post a short page with few lines and to read reactions, if I have written too little, or given too little, or not have given the right lines of the story, that was my choice, and I gladly receive the feed back from such.

The only fight I really am dealing with is how much can I really change to this story as not to make it a documentary, as it is not what I want to do, but still respecting the TRUE STORY of this woman.

ciao

[Joe G.]

I didn't read the original synopsis, but apparently "Dave" has shredded it. I hope Ketch reads that one more than once.

PS

"True" is not synonymous with "watchable."

A good story is not necessarily "true," and it isn't something that happened to someone that you retell. It's something that happens to the audience.

If your intent is to explore the concept of rape, and empowerment, and the dark side of co-dependent women, etc., it's probably best to toss out the "true story" and create a composite of many "true" stories, arranged so as to convey your theme as effectively as possible.

That's really all I have to add.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Until you can give me a proper explanation to why the rape of the man she loves is her salvation I don't believe you. I'm sorry Ketchi I don't mean to be rude or look down at you I just don't feel as if your truly trying.

Maybe you're protecting her as you say, but why then make a film about her?

The solution to all this is why the film ends where it does and what the solution is then. A simple and they fall in love is not good enough. I'm not asking you to write an essay I'm asking you to as simple as possible offer a conclusion also in your synopsis.

She may not understand herself so it might not be easy - but why do they manage to "survive" when it seems so impossible. How does she reconcile with her inner self and what about him?

Also don't forget to put yourself in her former boyfriends shoes as well - remember no one is truly good or bad - the world is grey

[Fredrik Callinggard]

PS Im only writing in this thread because I see true potential in your story

[KETCH ROSSi]

I didn't read the original synopsis, but apparently "Dave" has shredded it. I hope Ketch reads that one more than once.

Not really, once was plenty good, I understand and respect David's points, but thy are just that, his points, and I have mine as you and every one else have theirs.

From every single line of words, or even every single word, there is so much room for interpretation in so many different ways, that form even the same finished script, if given in the ends of many different Directors, they will come up with a very different movie one form the other, and that is the beauty of it, as far as me, I know were I', going with this story, and yes off course I value and will consider every single one of the feed backs, but I know what story I want to tell, chances are that with some of the feed back replied here I might even make it better.

ciao

[KETCH ROSSi]

Until you can give me a proper explanation to why the rape of the man she loves is her salvation I don't believe you. I'm sorry Ketch I don't mean to be rude or look down at you I just don't feel as if your truly trying.



No worries your comment are as appreciated as the rest, and I like what you write, and the answer at this point is simple, the story ends with her making Love to her new boyfriend which She Loves and She is loved back, because I want a Happy ending, and felt that this particular moment was a good one to end the film at.

And yes I agree that even the new boyfriend does in deed rape her, but when and if you will see the film , then you will understand how and why it happens, why She asks for it, and why at the end He agrees in doing so, and yes even if He is ever so gentle it doesn't make it right, but He did so out of pure love, as ridiculous as it might sound.


PS Im only writing in this thread because I see true potential in your story

I appreciate that and thank you for it.

ciao

[david farland]

Ketch,
Of course you appreciate I respect you a lot, who you are and what you're doing.... otherwise I wouldn't spend time analysing your story.

and next (of course) I'm gonna say i'm trying to look at your plot the same way (hopefully) millions of viewers will given the same story/facts of course.

I began to read your story and comments to it a couple of days back and was about to write a bit about age-old film language...how people are used to plots/themes and thus have expectations of what will happen and premises for why they happen unless told otherwise.
All you need to do set up the movie so people can establish plausible reasons for why things happen. This becomes the 'weight' of the movie. If you only give them limited facts like you have in your synopsis, viewers with their long history of film language, add their cliche reasons and judge accordingly, like I have with my cliched commentary of your work. Love you to tell me why she did it.
D

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ketch,
Of course you appreciate I respect you a lot, who you are and what you're doing.... otherwise I wouldn't spend time analysing your story.

and next (of course) I'm gonna say i'm trying to look at your plot the same way (hopefully) millions of viewers will given the same story/facts of course.

I began to read your story and comments to it a couple of days back and was about to write a bit about age-old film language...how people are used to plots/themes and thus have expectations of what will happen and premises for why they happen unless told otherwise.
All you need to do set up the movie so people can establish plausible reasons for why things happen. This becomes the 'weight' of the movie. If you only give them limited facts like you have in your synopsis, viewers with their long history of film language, add their cliche reasons and judge accordingly, like I have with my cliched commentary of your work. Love you to tell me why she did it.
D


Thanks again David,

true I did give very little with the synopsis but I did so willingly, this is a TRUE STORY, and I wanted to bring the facts to it, as I did on the one page posted here, yes it sound like so many things are out of a fantasy world, but they are not, why would She not leave him? Because She as many women are victims of their situation and incapable of free themselves form it, for simple fact of fear and or love, my mother She was one of them, and we suffer all from it, She couldn't ever call the Cops on him, She loved him and She was afraid of him, and so is the case for the star of this story.


So how does She becomes with Him? They started as Boyfriend Girlfriend like any relationship, then the abusive behavior started and SHe had no escape from it, not because She was in chains in the basement, but because of love and fear, which then became pure fear so deep in her that She couldn't even think about ever leaving him.

Why She does go back and tell her abusive boyfriend about the photo shoot job? Because She does love him and still hopes for things to change, but most importantly She does so, in the hope that He gives her a chance to make money and stop prostituting her to his friends.

Why does SHe goes back to the Photo shoot black and Blue? Well I have seen more then once models come to my shoots full of bruises, and there is always good old Make Up, but in her case She goes because She does not want to loose this opportunity, not to shoot in this day but to convince the photographer to reschedule till not just the bruises but her swollen face recovers.


But most important why does She asks her new boyfriend to force himself in to her? Because after almost a year of been together and no matter the weekly visits to a shrink She just couldn't let her self be touched, and this time in fear of loosing him, She wanted to try in the only way She new how, by force, as all other ways had failed in letting herself be loved.


This are the facts, and there is off course much more to it, what my task is here, is to take all the pieces and put them together to create a movie, true to its content of the events, documenting the true life of its victim, and yet cinematic in off to make a good movie out of to generate awareness and money.


ciao

[david farland]

Fear's a funny thing.
Fear of someone repeating the blows your father did with his blood filled eyes, all the while looking for love in him (initially anyway)
and then trying to put together those baby bones picked apart by that butcher can make an okay starting premise in a movie.
But the abrogation of responsibility (there's none of course) because you're a child and then looking for (and repeating) the same in later life is a bit overdone.
Needs to be cleverer than that if you really want to get the sales and not catharsis. Sure you are.....
D

ps: gotta rush out the building

[KETCH ROSSi]

Fear's a funny thing.
Fear of someone repeating the blows your father did with his blood filled eyes, all the while looking for love in him (initially anyway)
and then trying to put together those baby bones picked apart by that butcher can make an okay starting premise in a movie.
But the abrogation of responsibility (there's none of course) because you're a child and then looking for (and repeating) the same in later life is a bit overdone.
Needs to be cleverer than that if you really want to get the sales and not catharsis. Sure you are.....
D

ps: gotta rush out the building

NOt sure I fully understand you here David, I do understand the exactness in which you so well describe my Teenage experience with my stepfather, but not sure I understand the other part at all with this film.

Remember that this are the facts of her story, now it is up to me off course to see howm much of the trhuth I wil present and or in which way I present it, but you can be sure it will be, as every other progect I will ever been involved in, biased by my personal experiences in life, as I will never detach my self from it, and have no interest in doing so as the knowledge of life, the passion, the integrity is all part of who I am, and I am who I am because of my life experiences, so all my work will always reflect that.


So if your intent here is to let me know to be careful of letting my personal life get involved in this project, well I simply can not as it is the main reason I'm doing it.

But I do understand to keep my story my story, and her story her story, and will always look to others around me and involved in the project directly to steer me away form making fatal mistakes from which the film couldn't recover, but I'm very positive and confident that this will never happen.

Thanks again David for your feed back.

Now be careful down those stairs, don't go too much in a hurry.

ciao

[david farland]

Ketch, I was giving a (poor) motivation example that you're mum may have had, not youself. Whether the real reason of why she got into her situation is left in your head or back story in the movie isn't important. That you know and write from that knowledge is. Fear isn't the answer.....it's a reaction. Dave(posting from phone)

[Christian Edwards]

Dave(posting from phone)
you forgot to mention youre on the beach Dave

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ketch, I was giving a (poor) motivation example that you're mum may have had, not youself. Whether the real reason of why she got into her situation is left in your head or back story in the movie isn't important. That you know and write from that knowledge is. Fear isn't the answer.....it's a reaction. Dave(posting from phone)

Agreed, but as I said, no matter what I do, I'll always draw from experience, that is inevitable, but I always do so with intelligence, caution, and most of all paying attention that I have a clear perspective of what I do, and it is the case here with "Rape of a Beauty" I'm to tell her story not mine, and I'm doing so, in its entirety, my experience did draw me to the story, and will not doubt make me a better story teller then any one else which has had no personal experience in this matters as I did, of this I'm sure.

Still I will not let my fears or my own demons play a role in a negative aspect towards this project.

ciao

[Nick Wolf]

Context my friend ... context.

When I think of the tone I am struck by the darkness yet I feel its not dark enough. The times we live in my observations are blacker than black and I consider myself to be an optimist.

I think of Midnight Express. An ordeal through a real hell that does in fact exist. Scary shit.

Its also a warning. An as such very effective.

So what did she do ( Your Character ) to get into this relationship ... remember "Star 80" ??? another blacker than black depiction of co-dependant insanity.

How did she get in.
How does she get out.

That gives context to the darkness and makes it somehow more specific and seemingly less speculative because it then becomes about something other than what is going on on the surface no matter how attrocious its still a by product of something else.

History is black and white=Journalistic.
Drama poetic= In/sight into the phenomenon.

Ciao,

DogDay.

[david farland]

I know I can't convince you otherwise as you seems more of a stubborn bastard than me....but I'll try.
Firstly, absolute truth would need exact characters with their histories, motivations, back drops and events leading up and on the day that you're depicting.
i know you're not doing that but I figured I'd cover it off anyway.

First saying I like is....'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'.
Not because of any deep meaning but it sounds funny and exageration is what many story tellers are guilty of.
You're the opposite. your story is very raw in several ways. firstly the breath of human suffering and secondly in the immediate way that everyone identifies with it.
Just narrate this and immediately we identify with the pain. But when I come to see this movie I don't want more of what I readily know.
I want much more. The facts or events are just a container holding the magical/precious feelings of human kind.
Your job when making a movie is to tell a story about these human feeling and not event management where people take away the most obvious (read cliche) feelings revealed in the events in front of them.

Take a child assault scene. you can portray it as a one sided boxing match or a speck of blood splattered on the window.
Or simply the sounds of blows with the mother carefully ironing a child's shirt in the next room.
Okay, simple shot selection you say, but take it further in depicting an event and maybe you simply show a child's empty desk at school and not the event at all.

You don't need to go near the event to reveal the real true human experience.
For example, a rape....you may simply depict urine forming round a girl's feet in a clothing shop when she sees an open pair of men's trousers.
It's about whose story, what perspective, what truths you reveal (you can't reveal them all).
And being true to a story doesn't mean you systematically protray the events choking out the real feelings during the story.

But there again you may want to embelish an event. Take choking for example. (sorry to rant)
A mother is watching her son being hanged. Pretty evocative scene you feel doesn't need anymore.
The trap door opens but the movie cuts to her giving birth to you with your umbilical cord wrapped round your neck.
Why do this? Well maybe to reveal that she feels responsible for her baby now choking to death in front of her.
What i'm saying is your story isn't just being true to a series of events or facts.
It's greater than that...and dropping or depicting certain events differently can be totally true to the real story.
D

[KETCH ROSSi]

I know I can't convince you otherwise as you seems more of a stubborn bastard than me....but I'll try.
Firstly, absolute truth would need exact characters with their histories, motivations, back drops and events leading up and on the day that you're depicting.
i know you're not doing that but I figured I'd cover it off anyway.

First saying I like is....'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'.
Not because of any deep meaning but it sounds funny and exageration is what many story tellers are guilty of.
You're the opposite. your story is very raw in several ways. firstly the breath of human suffering and secondly in the immediate way that everyone identifies with it.
Just narrate this and immediately we identify with the pain. But when I come to see this movie I don't want more of what I readily know.
I want much more. The facts or events are just a container holding the magical/precious feelings of human kind.
Your job when making a movie is to tell a story about these human feeling and not event management where people take away the most obvious (read cliche) feelings revealed in the events in front of them.

Take a child assault scene. you can portray it as a one sided boxing match or a speck of blood splattered on the window.
Or simply the sounds of blows with the mother carefully ironing a child's shirt in the next room.
Okay, simple shot selection you say, but take it further in depicting an event and maybe you simply show a child's empty desk at school and not the event at all.

You don't need to go near the event to reveal the real true human experience.
For example, a rape....you may simply depict urine forming round a girl's feet in a clothing shop when she sees an open pair of men's trousers.
It's about whose story, what perspective, what truths you reveal (you can't reveal them all).
And being true to a story doesn't mean you systematically protray the events choking out the real feelings during the story.

But there again you may want to embelish an event. Take choking for example. (sorry to rant)
A mother is watching her son being hanged. Pretty evocative scene you feel doesn't need anymore.
The trap door opens but the movie cuts to her giving birth to you with your umbilical cord wrapped round your neck.
Why do this? Well maybe to reveal that she feels responsible for her baby now choking to death in front of her.
What i'm saying is your story isn't just being true to a series of events or facts.
It's greater than that...and dropping or depicting certain events differently can be totally true to the real story.
D

Absolutely agree with you in every point David, including the Stubborn part.

I have never been good on summarizing, and always been guilty of making long stories, great stories, but just long, from the early days of school, every one else would write few lines and out to play they went, while I was writing away for hours, so trust me there will be plenty of Context in this story, as there is in all my stories.

I understand and see every point made and it is my intention, yes to stay with the true facts of this events, but I'm a filmmaker after all and I will make a movie of it not a documentary just telling the facts, but my story will be build from this facts, I will not tell how She got in this bad relationship, as this is not the story I'm telling but I will make it about her of this you can be sure, as it is about her, and the few events such as the photographer saving her from her alcoholic boyfriend is probably one of the very few moments were is not about her, but it is still for her.

It is funny that you make a mentioning of a child with his umbilical cord around his neck, as I came to this world half chocked to death with two rounds of umbilical cord round my neck.

I thank you again David for the time you take in analizing, commenting and advising about this story, much appreciated.

ciao

[david farland]

okay....I'll stop bugging you.
Feel free to PM.
D

[KETCH ROSSi]

okay....I'll stop bugging you.
Feel free to PM.
D

NO bugging at all David, in fact you made me think HArd at more then one think, so thanks you again.

ciao