Package?

[odnamra]

I am a producer interested in the Red. I want to purchase a package that can be used for Tier I feature film production, mostly studio work, lot's of green screen. I don't have a DP on hand to put this package together, so I need something that DP's of different styles could work with. I have been scanning these forums for a few days now and I can't find a clear indication of what I would need in order to be up and running upon receipt of the camera. I found the website to be completely unhelpful in this regard, especially regarding digital media.

Here is my list:
-- Red One
-- Production Package (is this the red rail with EVF and LCD?)
-- 2x Red One Power Packs
-- Digital Media: how many gigs per minute in 4.5K? what is the advantage of the RAM over the Drive. Can we get away with several drives? We did a feature on the HVX with two laptops and four external firewire drives, for example.
-- Optics: are the lens sets going to be available by the time the camera ships? What is the next best alternative for a production company that wants to own a good set of lenses?
-- What am I missing?
-- Does it seem feasible to come in at about $60K for the whole package, including lenses?
-- then tack on $10K for Posting on a FCS2 setup?

I will have a hands on test with the SI-2K next month (one week: shooting - post), so i am also looking at that option also. The Red seems to be a more powerful option however.

Thank you to any kind soul who gives me some insight. I apologize for my ignorance.

I am hoping to make my decision tomorrow when they announce the shipping schedule. Hopefully it will not be too long before I can get my own. I may be able to get by with the SI-2K in the interim if need be, etc.

Thanks!

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Yeah, actually to be fair the Website basically couldn't be any worse when it comes to figuring out what you actually need. I had to e-mail the company and ask a bunch of people questions. It should be a LOT more clear what everything actually is. I wasn't even clear if you had to buy the RED arm if you got the LCD screen, or if that came with it (and now I know you don't need the extra arm).

I gather RED must think everyone ordering the camera already knows everything about their company from... elsewhere... because the Website on a scale of 1 to 10 gets a 10 for coolness and design and a 3 for information.

But yes, you can come in around $60,000 for sure. A bit less even, if you have one zoom lens and a prime lens set you are going to be around $55,000 without buying RED RAM, but with an EVF and LCD screen, battery kit, two hard drives, etc.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

-- Production Package (is this the red rail with EVF and LCD?)


The production packs are beeing developed still, not easy to say what they will include finally...

My guess is:
RED ONE BASIC PRODUCTION PACK will get your camera to accept all necessary equipment, but the EVF and LCD are sold seperatly at 2950$ for EVF and 1700$ for the LCD

RED ONE PREMIUM PRODUCTION PACK same as above but a lot more options for handheld and configuring to your (or your DPs) liking

There will definetly be some announcements soon, maybe tomorrow.



-- Digital Media: how many gigs per minute in 4.5K? what is the advantage of the RAM over the Drive. Can we get away with several drives? We did a feature on the HVX with two laptops and four external firewire drives, for example.


From what we know the REDCODE will downsample 4,5 K to 4K, and record to all the mentioned mediums, to maintain the full 4,5K you will need the RED RAW PORT module and some very very expensive and bulky RAID system (doesn´t seem likely to be very popular among normal shooters)

As for 4K REDCODE RAW, It+ s been hinted that the 320 GB drive will last almost 2hrs, which means that a 8GB CF will give you about the same as a 400" roll of 35mm film.

The 320GB REDDRIVES plug into any normal Mac/PC via firewire 800, so you can back up and record again.

The advantage of RED RAM over RED DRIVE is because there are no moving parts in the RED RAM (versus the spinning harddisk inside the RED DRIVE), it´s more resistant to shook and other extreme conditions. The RED DRIVE might also make more noise.



the lens sets going to be available by the time the camera ships?


Yes and no, the 300mm and the 18-50mm zoom is supposed to be ready when the first cameras ships, the primes should be ready by the end of this year. If you order your camera tomorrow, my guess is that all the currently announced lenses should be ready when your camera is... !st quarter 2008.



What is the next best alternative for a production company that wants to own a good set of lenses?

That depends a lot on what you need/want and how much you want to spend....

The lowbudget route would be to get Nikkors, another viable route would be to order up some used PL mounts from visualproducts.com or a similar place, or maybe rent until REDs lenses becomes available to you.



-- What am I missing?

For a complete set up you need a decent matte box (arri MB20 maybe) and a follow focus unit, maybe the Arri ARRI FF-5HD, these two come in at about 9K$ - there are a lot of cheaper options out there that might serve you well (make a search here on the forum for "matte box woes")

Also a tripod maybe?
And ND filter series for the mattebox (and any other filters needed)



-- Does it seem feasible to come in at about $60K for the whole package, including lenses?


I would think so...



-- then tack on $10K for Posting on a FCS2 setup?


Again depending on your set up, you should definetly be able to edit you REDCODE 4k files on a mac setup at that price.


Good luck!

[Evin Grant]

Every production has different needs and buying a Red is a very personal process. There is no one size fits all "Package". I would suggest that you talk to a DP you've worked with before or engage one of us on the board in a phone call to feel out the system that would be best suited to your projects.
Yes, $60K is very doable for a shooting package including lenses, some will be shipping with the camera 18-50 & 300mm but the prime set will not be available till late in the year, but I suspect if you ordered your Red one today you would not take delivery till 2008 anyway. By that time you may be able to get whatever you want.

BTW the production package is only rails and support, the viewfinder and LCD are separate.
E.

[Michael Schrengohst]

At least if you order something, RED will respond when you have questions....
I ordered the ExpressCard reader and then a day later Jim said they
were having better luck with the CF reader so I changed my order....
Even though I see the ExpressCard reader is still in the store.
And they keep showing new designs so I think anything you might
order is - as RED says - "subject to change".

[odnamra]

Alright, thank you to all the helpful replies. I am learning already. Here are the cogent points:

-- It seems like a complete kit could be the Red with: Production Package, EVF, LCD, 2x Power Packs, 3x Drives, the Prime, Zoom, and Lens Set. That puts me at $60K almost on the dot. Interestingly more than half of that is lenses. The price could also change significantly if I chose a different option for Digital Media. registra's advice in particular would change the overall cost dramatically, especially with cheaper lenses from some place like visualproducts.com.

-- If I was to order tomorrow it seems like all the accessories will be available by the time my camera actually ships.

-- We're looking at $9K for the Matte box and FF rig. Not including filters.

-- $10K for the editing system is sufficient.

That looks like $80K+ to be working out the door. The type of work I'd expect to be doing is at least 50% green screen if not closer to 80% for the TV stuff. But we need the option of going out on location like we did on our first two features.