Announcing the Rebel lenses

[Mitch Gross]

At last! The rumors are over. Here's a brand new set of matched T1.9 lenses at an affordable price. Available in volume. Come see them at the Abel booth at NAB and Abel's table at the REDuser party.

Sanjin, how did you not get this up before I made it into the office this morning? :)

www.rebel-lenses.com

[Stephen Williams]

At last! The rumors are over. Here's a brand new set of matched T1.9 lenses at an affordable price. Available in volume. Come see them at the Abel booth at NAB and Abel's table at the REDuser party.

Sanjin, how did you not get this up before I made it into the office this morning? :)

www.rebel-lenses.com

Hi Mitch,

The focus scale is very disappointing.

Stephen

[Michael Olsen]

Interesting. I look forward to hearing hands-on reviews...makes me wish I could make it to NAB.

[Jay A. Kelley]

:blink:

Ok there are people on here who know a LOT more about lenses than me, but if I have this right we're looking at $12,000 us for 3 lenses, and $22,000 us for 5.

And these lenses may be pretty with the pics. But they look pretty bad on the outside, and did someone tell me correctly that they expand when focusing?

I will hold final judgement until I see them, but as of right now....


:thumbdown:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So these are the IB/E lenses?

[Fredrik Harreschou]

It seems that RED has once again has made a product (the RPP kit) that will be hard to compete with...

Mitch, does the image below show the 25 mm expanded? Does it expand by what seems to be almost two inches?

http://www.rebel-lenses.com/media/intemplate/10_Rebelstehend3.JPG

[Matthew Rogers]

Well, I'm pretty disappointed already. Stephen is right about the focus scale being too close and the price is not at all attractive. Why would I pay $22,000 USD for this set when I could buy the RED set for $20,000? (and now possibly less...)

I think these would have been for more interesting around $12,000 USD. Not to mention that the website says the current pricing is a limited time offer.

Matthew

[Fredrik Harreschou]

So these are the IB/E lenses?

Yes, and these are the "cheap" ones!
http://www.ibe-optics.de/view.php?nid=249

So who knows what the price will be for the Supreme series?
http://www.ibe-optics.de/view.php?nid=248

Fred

[Mark L. Pederson]

At last! The rumors are over. Here's a brand new set of matched T1.9 lenses at an affordable price. Available in volume. Come see them at the Abel booth at NAB and Abel's table at the REDuser party.

Sanjin, how did you not get this up before I made it into the office this morning? :)

www.rebel-lenses.com

Mitch - these are IBE, correct?

Is the "German" primes set? Or is that ANOTHER set?

Is this the set LAGUUN posted about?

[Jay A. Kelley]

:angry: The more I read, the less I like these things.... :angry:

[Tonaci Tran]

http://www.ibe-optics.de/media/intemplate/27_14mmISOvorn.JPG

[Mark L. Pederson]

I think the last mystery here is ... where is the ISCO set?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OK, got it now... I was aware of the older picture showing the "cheap" set anodized red, didn't realize they were releasing that set as well as the set depicted in the renders.

It's hard to comment on pricing until we see how all the lenses compare. But to be perfectly honest here, the design of the "cheap" ones not being an internal focus design is a strike against them right out of the gate.

Their Supreme lenses look a lot more attractive and it's nice to see a photo of an actual lens and not a render now. It seems they have a T1.8 10mm planned... That will be interesting to see!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think the last mystery here is ... where is the ISCO set?

That's what I'm wondering...

I have a strong suspicion that this cheaper IB/E set or "Rebel Lenses" are the lenses that Laguun has been talking about. Because he's dropped so many little hints about "Rebel" this and that, The "set" is under 10K Euros, it's been reported that they're not an IF design, like these IB/E lenses, etc..

Edit> Unless ISCO and/or other manufacturers are involved in these? They don't seem to have the IB/E name stamped on the Rebel set and the rebel-lens web site says they are distributed by IB/E optics...

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Guys what did you expect? I'm pretty sure that these lenses are very good for their price point but you just can't simply do Ultra prime design and squeeze it into 1/10 of the cost.

RED primes is in my guess a loss that Jim and the guys take to gain credibility. Just like all the leather sofa's at IKEA are underpriced - they make the money on other things but having low cost leather sofa's is important for the all around business.

[Mitch Gross]

These ARE the droids you've been looking for. Yes, they are the lenses Laguun posted on. Yes, they come from IB/E. The lenses expand when focusing, but only by about 20mm, not two inches. There is even an optional bellows that compensates for the expansion if your mattebox doesn't have a bellows. They are German designed and manufactured, and they are completely telecentric for use on a Digital Cinema camera with microlenses.

And the announced prices? As I said before, don;'t trust ANY prices announced or otherwise for all of these new lenses coming out. I know for a fact that BandPro might be saying a price for the Zeiss Compact Primes, but Zeiss itself has not yet decided. So if someone else sets a price it doesn't mean that Abel will necessarily be selling at that price. We shall see.

[Tonaci Tran]

http://www.rebel-lenses.com/media/intemplate/10_Rebel25mm.JPG
http://www.rebel-lenses.com/media/intemplate/10_Rebel50mm.JPG
http://www.rebel-lenses.com/media/intemplate/10_Rebel95mm.JPG
http://www.rebel-lenses.com/media/intemplate/27_CasewithLens.JPG

[Tonaci Tran]

http://www.rebel-lenses.com/media/intemplate/27_LenswithBallow.JPG

[Tim Sutherland]

I agree, non-internal focus is a downer, especially for clip-on mattebox use. But I'll wait until I see them before saying anything more.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

so no new housings and no 4 lenses for 10 k €.......

so my money goooooooooes to---RED

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for the clarification, Mitch.

If the telescoping focus is about 20mm (0.78"), that's not so bad and most decent matteboxes should cope with that just fine.

As for prices, I think it's best to see what comes along with NAB. The Rebel order site is in Euros only. The currently quoted prices may be for a limited time, but people also have to remember that we don't know the official price of the RED primes just yet and the initial price for RED's lenses will also be a limited time offer.

The 5 lens set of these lenses equate to about US $4400 per lens. That's pretty competitive with RED's pricing. I could see people choosing these over the RED lenses for various reasons... size, weight, availability... They will most likely be cheaper for European buyers and definitely those in Germany. Anyway, it's just one more option on the table for those looking to buy lenses.

[David Mullen ASC]

They aren't sexy looking, but what matters is how they perform relative to their price point. Also, when will a full set of RED primes be on the market? It may be a case where someone needs a set of lenses very soon, so if these are available now and the RED prime set is several months away...

[Julio Quintana]

So it sounds like the only compelling reason to buy these lenses is if the RED primes are on back order? Unlike cameras, lenses are a long-term investment, one worth a little patience and extra cash...

[Martin Weiss]

I am a bit surprised at just how quick some people jump to conclusions. We have not seen a single lens set yet, just some pictures.

I agree, those lenses look like they were made in the 80s, but what really matters is what they look like seen through a R1, and what they feel like to a Focus Puller.

Jeff, why would those lenses be cheaper for Germans? They´d (we´d?) have to pay VAT, just like when importing lenses from RED, eBay or Russia :)

[Steve Sherrick]

In regards to availability, Jim did say


We will begin shipping next week and will contact our RED ONE owners 1st to see if they "are in". Then we'll open it up to everyone else.

It pays to own a RED ONE...

Jim

[Steve Sherrick]

For me, I'm keeping an open mind until I can see all of these lenses up close and personal. Pictures only tell half the story. Let's give the Rebel lenses a chance. Same with all of the other lenses. This is why going to NAB or other trade shows is important sometimes. You can get your hands on products, see how they feel, get a sense of build quality, etc.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff, why would those lenses be cheaper for Germans? They´d (we´d?) have to pay VAT, just like when importing lenses from RED, eBay or Russia :)

Should be lower tax if you're not importing them, no? Or am I just not up to speed on how taxes are working in Germany these days?

[Mitch Gross]

You can absolutely use clip-on matteboxes. All Rebel lenses have a 90mm front which protrudes enough to accept a clamp ring. The barrels extend but they do not rotate.

[paul engstrom]

These are the lenses Laguun mentioned--check the comments page on the Rebel website.

[Shawn Nelson]

So much for a 5-lens set being under 10,000 euro

[Julio Quintana]

I also was interested when this was a 5-lens set for 10k euros. If the RED primes are anything like Jim is claiming, I don't really see how these lenses can compete.

[Shawn Nelson]

I also was interested when this was a 5-lens set for 10k euros. If the RED primes are anything like Jim is claiming, I don't really see how these lenses can compete.

Agreed, and since Jim has said the Red primes are now *below* $20k (I expect all five RPPs to be $15,995 to $17,995), why would someone pay $22k for these? They are the same speed, they look bad, they would have to be either on the market months before the RPPs or become noticeably cheaper.

[Matthew Rogers]

Agreed, and since Jim has said the Red primes are now *below* $20k (I expect all five RPPs to be $15,995 to $17,995), why would someone pay $22k for these? They are the same speed, they look bad, they would have to be either on the market months before the RPPs or become noticeably cheaper.

Note that their website says July for the entire 5 lens set. With Jim's recent post, it sounds like they have already been making sets and should deliver some before July. It's still a battle for that 18mm or wider lens...

Matthew

[Jarred Land]

They aren't sexy looking, but what matters is how they perform relative to their price point. Also, when will a full set of RED primes be on the market? It may be a case where someone needs a set of lenses very soon, so if these are available now and the RED prime set is several months away...

We start shipping next week... First sets as usual go to our very early adopters (as usual)

[Liam Hall]

We start shipping next week... First sets as usual go to our very early adopters (as usual)

Oh my:)

[Greg M]

We start shipping next week... First sets as usual go to our very early adopters (as usual)

would that be the first 100?

[RivaiC]

But i thought RED didnt take any official reservation ? How come

[Sanjin Jukic]

At last! The rumors are over. Here's a brand new set of matched T1.9 lenses at an affordable price. Available in volume. Come see them at the Abel booth at NAB and Abel's table at the REDuser party.

Sanjin, how did you not get this up before I made it into the office this morning? :)

www.rebel-lenses.com

Mitch,

IB/E (+Schneider-Kreuznach, Shott) option was from early beginning at all my speculation.

To conclude is to say that from Germany now we have the new sets from:

- IB/E (+Schneider-Kreuznach, Shott) Rebel 4K set of 3 primes 25mm, 50mm, 95mm (S35mm?1) priced Euro 9.900.

- IB/E Optics 14 mm T 1,8 Demo lens as a part of the Supreme series will be shown at the NAB 2009 Hall C4 booth C8537.

- Carl Zeiss (FF35mm) set of 7 lenses 18mm T3.8, 21mm T2.9, 25mm T 2.9, 28mmT2.1, 35mm T2.1, 50mm T1.5 85mm T1.5 priced about USD 40.000.

- ISCO 4K lens set is still a mysterious... (!?).

From Russia and Germany are coming lenses designed by Lomo that are the fastest new lens set offer:

- Illumina S35 by Lomo, set of 3 lenses, 35mm, 50mm & 85mm T1.3. List Price is $16.900 for those three. A full set of 6 lenses $34.000.

From USA/Japan

- RED Pro Primes set of 5 lenses T 1.8 (RED design, covers 5K sensor circle) priced about USD 20.000.

- Fujinon HK4.7x18-F 18-85mm T2 PL mount S35mm zoom lens, the price still unknown.

A couple of re-housed lenses:

- Rehoused zoom by Duclos/Tokina 11-16 T2.9 (APS-C), Manual Iris about USD 3.500.

- Rehoused by Focus Optics/Nikon F/G 14mm-24mm T 2.9 (FF35mm), Manual Iris about USD $10,500.

- At the end a big surprise with something like a Leica PL prime set

15mm, 19mm, 21mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 60mm, 75mm. 90mm, 100mm, 135mm, 180mm, 280mm, 400mm, 800mm (FF35), price about USD 95.000 :head_explode:


Please correct me if I'm wrong here and just continue to add here some more new things... :beer: .

[Shawn Nelson]

We start shipping next week... First sets as usual go to our very early adopters (as usual)

So when should I expect an email offering first swing?

[Roberto B]

Sanjin, how did you not get this up before I made it into the office this morning? :):rofl: the whole gang have always loved you sir.. :thumbsup:

[Danish P.V.]

Should be lower tax if you're not importing them, no? Or am I just not up to speed on how taxes are working in Germany these days?

all stuff that get`s imported get a tax (varies on the good) plus 19% VAT, for German made stuff it`s "just" 19% VAT

hilarious story: me and my brother won (!!) some pocket wizards last year and had to pay (!!!) 100 euro tax for them (of which we got 20 bucks back)...

[Danish P.V.]

- At the end a big surprise with something like a Leica PL prime set

15mm, 19mm, 21mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 60mm, 75mm. 90mm, 100mm, 135mm, 180mm, 280mm, 400mm, 800mm (FF35), price about USD 95.000

Leica?? Where did you hear that?

[Sanjin Jukic]

Leica?? Where did you hear that?

This could be a pure speculation but you never know...

[Bob Torrance]

Yes, and these are the "cheap" ones!
http://www.ibe-optics.de/view.php?nid=249

So who knows what the price will be for the Supreme series?
http://www.ibe-optics.de/view.php?nid=248

Fred

These look interesting. They list a T2 12-28. First out; a 14mm T1.8.

Anybody know about these?

Bob Torrance

[Shane Betts]

The thing that strikes me with all these new prime sets is that (almost?) nobody is addressing the really wide and the longer than 100mm ranges. So we have lots of choice between 18mm-85mm but thin on the ground on the short and longish end.

If there is a lens maker/modifier listening, how about some 10mm, 14mm, 135mm, 180mm fast primes? Have the field to yourself! (see that, segue back to the sheep thing in the subject. I'm a comic genius:))

[Mitch Gross]

These look interesting. They list a T2 12-28. First out; a 14mm T1.8.

Anybody know about these?

Bob Torrance

THESE were the lenses I was most excited about! First class gear. The Rebels were sort of an "Oh yeah, we're thinking about doing these too" but the Supreme series is, well, supreme.

In our booth, starting Monday.

[Peter Rollins]

THESE were the lenses I was most excited about! First class gear. The Rebels were sort of an "Oh yeah, we're thinking about doing these too" but the Supreme series is, well, supreme.

In our booth, starting Monday.

I must say I appreciate your honesty Mitch. Most companies representing a product wouldn't admit to what you just implied.

Do we know what the pricing on the Supreme series is yet?

[Michael Bravin]

I know for a fact that BandPro might be saying a price for the Zeiss Compact Primes, but Zeiss itself has not yet decided.

WTF? YOU know for a fact? I don't set the price. Keep in mind that we partnered with Zeiss on the development of the DigiPrimes and DigiZooms so my relationship with them is a bit more involved than a reseller who sells everything. We tend to specialize. Mitch, I for one would appreciate it if you would keep Band Pro out of your self promoting posts.:angry:

[Peter Rollins]

I love it here. Feel the passion. This is what it's all about.

Didn't one of you guys eat some hat cake in the RED tent one year at NAB? I can't remember which of you it was. I say this year you both have a mud wrestling match at the Palms. I'll double down.

[Evin Grant]

That was Geoff Boyle from CML.

[Michael Bravin]

That was Geoff Boyle from CML.

Evin, I think the reference was Mitch's eating his Fedora Cake because he said he'd eat his hat if Red delivered a working camera by that NAB, if my pre-NAB fogged memory serves me correctly.

Hey there has to be some comic relief otherwise what's the point :-)

[C.H.Haskell]

We start shipping next week... First sets as usual go to our very early adopters (as usual)

Hey Jarred, I heard a rumor that after you deliver the prime sets to the early orders...that RED will ask RED owners 1st if they want a set before going to general public? Is this so...:)

[Jeff Coatney]

I'd just like to point out that we wouldn't be seeing all these great options for lenses were it not for the Red One. As for pricing, there will be some downward pressure on all these options, I'd expect.

[Michael Hastings]

The thing that strikes me with all these new prime sets is that (almost?) nobody is addressing the really wide and the longer than 100mm ranges. So we have lots of choice between 18mm-85mm but thin on the ground on the short and longish end.

If there is a lens maker/modifier listening, how about some 10mm, 14mm, 135mm, 180mm fast primes? Have the field to yourself! (see that, segue back to the sheep thing in the subject. I'm a comic genius:))

I agree, I've been asking for a 10 or 12 for a couple of years. We are moving to the Birger/Canon solution for our underwater systems - anyone interested in my Arri/Zeiss 10mm T2.1 in the meantime?

[Stephen Williams]

That was Geoff Boyle from CML.

Actually it was Mitch!

[Trevor S Lawley]

Sorry guys, might be a dumb question. but does anyone find the datail or the focus to drop off a bit on the edges?

[Fred Salaff]

For $32,500 The Illumina Super 35mm lenses are the best value. Full set from 18mm to 85mm. High quality, super sharp, well designed!

PM me for NAB show discount. We are taking orders with 10% deposits. Lenses available Sept.

Fred

[Fredrik Callinggard]

In the end it's all about how you can service your lenses. From my experience owning quite a few lenses it's all about service. The lenses that gives you the least grief and that can (if necessary) be serviced by your closest lens technician WINS!

Now if all these have simple design and therefor can be serviced then it seems to me like Illumina, Compact and Supreme will be fighting against each other. All with different specifications that is of great interest.

Illumina for price amount of lenses and speed. Compact for FF and of course the knowledge of them being Zeiss built lenses (but they're slow). I will most probably buy them for FF stuff and keep my other lenses for S35. As for Supreme I don't know but they seem interesting and it will be a lot of fun hearing about them.

Now for the serious stuff. I just heard a little bird whisper that RED primes can and will only be service by RED. That is to me a little of a deal killer. Not saying RED don't have great customer service, but the amount of times you need small tweaks on lenses and the amount of them that will be out there. Do they have staff enough for that?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

For $32,500 The Illumina Super 35mm lenses are the best value. Full set from 18mm to 85mm. High quality, super sharp, well designed!

PM me for NAB show discount. We are taking orders with 10% deposits. Lenses available Sept.

Fred

this is high jacking the thread---i was told so, and others were banned for that...hehe

[Fredrik Callinggard]

this is high jacking the thread---i was told so, and others were banned for that...hehe

Actually "others" where telling people NOT TO BUY about to close sales - THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MATTER!

Especially not when in the end it showed to be very average lenses:thumbsup:

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Actually "others" where telling people NOT TO BUY about to close sales - THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MATTER!

Especially not when in the end it showed to be very average lenses:thumbsup:

o,k forgive me...didnt know that pamela anderson prototypes will turn to grandma greta lenses...hehe

[Fredrik Callinggard]

o,k forgive me...didnt know that pamela anderson prototypes will turn to grandma greta lenses...hehe

Everything is in the eyes of the beholder :beer:

[Mitch Gross]

Well that was interesting.

Funny thing is, Mike Bravin & I are friendly. We just hung out after a Sony party for awhile shootin' the breeze. Everyone just thinks we're in a pissing match because well, it's fun to play the upmanship game every now & then.

BandPro is free to charge whatever they want for their products. Zeiss told me point blank that the prices were in play. I'm sure we'll all end up selling them for something within a few pennies of one another.

I'm the guy with the hat. It's been a few years now, but I think my initial boast was something along the lines that RED was claiming the earth & the moom in functional features for their camera and I said if they could actually deliver such by NAB then I'd eat my hat. To be technically fair I don't think they actually got ALL of those functions up and running in time, but it was certainly enough and in the spirit of good manners I was happy to present Jim with a red velvet cake in the shape of a fedora. I let Jim and his hard-working minions actually enjoy eating it.

So back to lenses...


Come on by our booth to check out the Rebel primes. They have 18-blade irises, almost a perfect circle! Lovely, lovely bokeh.

[Matthew Duclos]

In the end it's all about how you can service your lenses. From my experience owning quite a few lenses it's all about service. The lenses that gives you the least grief and that can (if necessary) be serviced by your closest lens technician WINS!

Couldn't agree more. I point this out to people all the time.
Especially because It's my job...
Perfect example.. Cooke S4's take about HALF the time it takes to service an old Russian Lomo. Keep this in mind when choosing your new set of primes.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Couldn't agree more. I point this out to people all the time.
Especially because It's my job...
Perfect example.. Cooke S4's take about HALF the time it takes to service an old Russian Lomo. Keep this in mind when choosing your new set of primes.

And I know that for a fact HAHAHA

[PaulClements]

I wonder if the sub 20K price just went slightly closer to 20k for the Red primes with this announcement. The 10k pricetag surely played a role in Red rethinking their prices to beat off competition and now these lenses are at least 2k more than RPP... Well I'm sure Jim is very confident in his product now and probably rightly so though I'll reserve complete judgement till we have the facts on all sets.

Given Red seems to be making the cheapest set of primes on the market it seems apparent they will ship more lenses than others. One of the important aspects of a lens' rentability or saleability on a project is that DP's are comfortable with the look and performance. I envisage there will be more than enough sets of Red lenses out there within the year that DP's will quickly become aware of their particular qualities and whether to choose to use them (Not to mention the lower costs will excite producers).

With this in mind, the pricetag of these at 22k is naturally less desirable than previously thought. They probably won't shift a significant amount to market that will make a big enough impression that DP's will be familiar enough shooting with them and subsequently even if they are comparable with the Red lenses they probably won't be in great demand.

In terms of servicing, what are Red going to do with all those in the aggressive manufacturing pipeline once they've shipped most of the sets? Seems like an ideal place for servicing. As long as they have areas throughout the world, obviously starting with Red Europe since it is already up and running, I don't personally see that being that big a problem. Red have been very good on servicing their cameras, better than most companies. So why should this not be reflected in their lens servicing department? That said I'd be surprised if they can't be serviced outside of Red, after all they're hardly likely to give a lifetime warranty so how could they restrict people from taking them elsewhere?

Paul