EVF versus LCD

[Mark B.]

People seem to be recommending the EVF over the LCD. Why is that? What are the critical benefits of using the EVF? What performace features will it offer that justifies spending $1250 more than the LCD?

[Salem Kapic]

Daylight shooting!

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Well we don't know for certain eh, because the there was not a working model of the evf (with all its features enabled) at NAB, but RED have described a focus assist feature which will be essential for anyone not blessed with a great focus puller. And I guess we are assuming that the focus assist will be on the evf only, or will be easier to use on that device.
The RED team haven't made a specific announcement but I'm assuming that they will describe stuff like this in more detail when they can make an announcement about the shipping schedule, which Jim Jannard suggested would be this Friday.
But they are still making the damn thing, so..

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Yeah when I talked to someone from RED they said I need the EVF for sure, and it'd be nice to have the LCD screen but not as essential. I opted for both, so did my business partner David. I talked him into the LCD, though, he was going to try to cheap out and just get the EVF but I said it'd be a nice thing to have.

[Brook Willard]

Higher resolution and a real "connection" with the camera does it for me.

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Embarassingly enough, I do most of my filming on a Sony Z1 :blink: and the flip out lcd is incredibly useful: when I'm filming with the camera away from my body, and as a monitor for whoever is with me

But everyone has their own needs eh :biggrin:

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I do most of my filming with a Panasonic MiniDV cam I got for $600 nine years ago. haha, just kidding. I still have that thing, though, wonder if it works anymore.

[Curran Giddens]

Well we don't know for certain eh, because the there was not a working model of the evf (with all its features enabled) at NAB, but RED have described a focus assist feature which will be essential for anyone not blessed with a great focus puller. And I guess we are assuming that the focus assist will be on the evf only, or will be easier to use on that device.
The RED team haven't made a specific announcement but I'm assuming that they will describe stuff like this in more detail when they can make an announcement about the shipping schedule, which Jim Jannard suggested would be this Friday.
But they are still making the damn thing, so..

I don't think the focus assist (magic pixies) will be limited to the EVF, but it may be easier to use since the EVF is slightly higher resolution. I'm getting both, but the EVF is mainly for when I rent out my RED (people are used to their eye stuck to the viewfinder). I probably won't use it on my own projects since I will be inside a greenscreen studio and on a rig.

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Yeah... I end up also with that thought of what equipment should I buy so that when I rent it out whoever rents it gets what they expect and what they want. If they're happy and paying me, I'll provide what they want, haha.

[Craig Schober]

i find that evfs suit larger productions better as they are catered to and controlled by the dp. by that i mean that an evf allows the dp to get lost in the frame only concentrating on composition and frame details. in lower budget productions (all of mine) i use an lcd primarily because i find myself looking outside of the frame to check on many other elements during shooting...that old expression about wearing many hats comes to mind.

[I Bloom]

And I guess we are assuming that the focus assist will be on the evf only, or will be easier to use on that device.

That would be terrible since it's unlikely on dramatic shows that the person looking through the EVF will also pull focus. I plan on using the LCD as the AC's monitor, in which case I need that magic focus there.

IBloom

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Embarassingly enough, I do most of my filming on a Sony Z1 :blink: and the flip out lcd is incredibly useful: when I'm filming with the camera away from my body, and as a monitor for whoever is with me


Me too... I must say whenever I use that camera I always use the LCD and never the viewfinder.

[number6]

[QUOTE=JonathanLB;52072]Yeah... I end up also with that thought of what equipment should I buy so that when I rent it out /QUOTE]

I simply cannot imagine "renting out" one's camera... wife, sister, daughter... o.k., not them either, and certainly not the camera. I'm not sure I can even trust a camera operator to handle it!

Maybe with therapy. Does the RED come with a therapist? Does therapy cost extra?

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

haha, it's just too much money to have it sitting around doing nothing I think. I mean mostly I'll have my own projects to do with it, I think, for clients, but when I film a feature then after that is shot I'll be occupied for several months dealing with post-production and distribution, so I'd much rather rent out the whole package of stuff I'll have than let it sit around while I'm meanwhile not making any money besides my investments. It'd be nice to have some income coming in from rentals during that time.

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Me too... I must say whenever I use that camera I always use the LCD and never the viewfinder.

I know it's great.. :innocent:
But because RED is designed to rest on the shoulder I think I'll start to use the evf much more; especially as focus and exposure are going to be very tricky in handheld observational documentary mode :clown2:

[PaulClements]

Working with a digital output means that monitoring options are greater than that of film as we all know. Solutions highlighted on this board include using BlackMagic's HD-SDI to DVI convertor and plugging directly into a consumer monitor.

If I'm correct you should be able to output at 1080p 444RGB to the monitor. As such you can have a higher resolution than the LCD supplied.

A Dell 30" and Blackmagic box at $1,269 + $443 costs $1712, same as the LCD. You can stick on a smaller monitor than that such as Samsung SyncMaster 245BW 24" at $559 and come in less than $1000.

Point is that for me personally, when I want to monitor in studio situations etc I'd rather have a huge screen with better resolution.

The LCD though does give the option of onboard monitoring for steadicam or handheld work. But in these instances you can argue for framing all you need is a basic monitor and the focus puller remotely using the 30" monitor for focusing.

[Steve Gibby]

“The RED-EVF and RED-LCD are close cousins. They are driven by a common output from the camera that is expressed on two independent DVI based digital video, power and control interfaces. You could think of them both as viewfinders, one in a tube and one flat.

You can use one, or the other, or both at the same time.

The RED-EVF has one or two additional capabilites I can discuss later, and is without doubt the higher performance product, but either one of them would be fine for camera operation. Both show Surround View, Histograms, Focus Assist, Frame Guides and Camera menus / status.

As an example, if you were shooting underwater or on steadicam the RED-LCD would be the best choice.”

Stuart English
RED Team
3/13/07
RED User
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=900&page=4



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As Stuart verified, the focus assist is available on both the EVF and LCD. I’ve ordered both of them because I’ll use both of them extensively. When shoulder held, and at various times on tripod, I’ll use the EVF, But when hand held high or low angle, certain occasions on tripod, or when using an image stabilization unit, I’ll use the LCD, with a sunshade for outdoor use.

Note #1: Stuart also subsequently posted that RED One will have zebra and it will be available in both the EVF and LCD margins.

Note #2: The EVF will be 1280 x 720 and the LCD will be 1024 x 600.

[Hans von Sonntag]

The LCD though does give the option of onboard monitoring for steadicam or handheld work. But in these instances you can argue for framing all you need is a basic monitor and the focus puller remotely using the 30" monitor for focusing.

The LCD will be helpful in many ways but:

Remember that the focus has to be pulled in advance. Pulling focus from a screen (any size) tells you the fact that something is in or out of focus, for this the Red focus system will be very helpful. But if something is out of focus it's too late. Therefore it's mostly better to watch the moving subject/object than watching the picture. In short: Most focus puller do not need a screen for their work.

For stedycam work the LCD will be fine (also I don't know how it will perform in sun light). Good also for the director on EFP productions.

I would never buy a camera without a viefinder. I love to embrace the camera rather than holding it some how in front of me (HDV-style). I also suppose the weight of the RED will be comparable to a S16 / HDCAM camera depending on lenses and mattbox etc.. For handheld work (shoulder) a viefinder ist vital.

My 2 cents on EFV,

Hans

[PaulClements]

The LCD will be helpful in many ways but:

Remember that the focus has to be pulled in advance. Pulling focus from a screen (any size) tells you the fact that something is in or out of focus, for this the Red focus system will be very helpful. But if something is out of focus it's too late. Therefore it's mostly better to watch the moving subject/object than watching the picture. In short: Most focus puller do not need a screen for their work.

I agree with you completely, what I wrote was misleading in that sense. I was just making the point that if you were offering monitoring for the focus puller you could do it this way instead. You can also add fibre optics etc to speed up the playback from the camera to the monitor depending on the distance if this was an issue. But just for monitoring, especially in a studio I like the idea of being able to gather round a huge monitor and inspecting the detail. It'd be nice in the future if with 4k screens the Red could output at 4k for direct monitoring/recording.

[Christoffer Glans]

I'm using the LCD whenever I shoot with a miniDV camera, but that is mostly because the EVF is always too little, too dark and too crappy.

Will the RED EVF be like a 35mm EVF? Will the image be large, clear as daylight and almost "virtual reality" to the eye? If not, I will not hesitate to get the LCD instead. Some people just can't buy both :(

[Hans von Sonntag]

I'm using the LCD whenever I shoot with a miniDV camera, but that is mostly because the EVF is always too little, too dark and too crappy.

Will the RED EVF be like a 35mm EVF? Will the image be large, clear as daylight and almost "virtual reality" to the eye? If not, I will not hesitate to get the LCD instead. Some people just can't buy both :(


No it won't be like a 35mm viewfinder, which is optical (like DSLR). But it will be like a SONY HDCAM EFV but better - better in resolution and better in terms of exposure and focus tools.

Frankly, you cannot compare a miniDV EVF with a professional one. Two worlds. Go with the EFV and buy the LCD later, makes much more sense. (RED will be the only high end pro camera which can be ordered without a EFV, funny enough).

Hans