REDucation

[TedRed]

Hello Everyone,

A small team at RED along with a small team of industry professionals have been working in secret over the past couple months on something we call REDucation. We just officially launched this evening (April 20th, 2009)

No need to make a long post here explaining what we've been up to.... if you go and check out:

www.reducation.net

you will get some sense of what we've been working on....

Looking forward to your feedback and thoughts as we start to bring this education program to life.

------------

Since this first post a while ago, we have successfully had 3 REDucation classes in LA - lots of comments in this thread on those classes for those that are interested in some of the student feedback.

Updating the thread today, Feb 7th 2010 with info about our 4th class - REDucation Vegas:

REDucation Vegas - from April 8th to April 12th.

We are ramping up the planning now, and this promises to be a very interesting, in depth week of learning the RED camera and post workflow.

Registration is open now, follow this link to register:

http://www.reducation.net/registration.html

We are working on a much larger scope event that our previous REDucation classes in LA, to handle all the interest and demand worldwide from students coming in for this and staying for the NAB show, and attending the REDuser Vegas event on April 14th.

This will be a unique, one time event that will will be taking the first 200 students that register. There will be a vast amount of RED camera gear, including some cameras with the new MX sensor in them, and the latest post production software and utilities to work with the footage. A large amount of teaching and support staff will be there to keep things as much hands on as possible, and a team of highly trained presenting staff to teach the latest RED workflows for shooting and posting all types projects on the RED is preparing now for the class.

Any questions about REDucation Vegas, you can email to: info@reducation.net

Looking forward to meeting many people eager to take their RED skills to the next level in Vegas in April!

Thanks

+ Ted

[Neil Larson]

Cool. This is great.

[Harry Lipnick]

Good stuff...glad to see that RED itself is going to spearhead this effort, especially as the product portfolio begins to rapidly expand in the next weeks and months.
Peace,

-Harry

[Nick Wolf]

I am speechless...This news was a gift...further refinement of the concept of Independance...No more getting saddled with so called "Experts"

I want to know how to pay for a place in this course. And I want to get on the list...Now!

Thanks,

DogDay.

[Zach Nelson]

East Coast - PLEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Vince K]

This just made my day!!!!:thumbsup:

[Andrew clemson]

I wonder if I can get my boss to pay for this? A free holiday to LA would be nice!

[Kevin Wild]

Um, great, but PRICEY. $2500 for the week? That's a lot to learn about the gear we just bought from you. Before people jump on me...yes, in the scheme of things, it's not that much. But I have employees that would love to go to this and at $2500, they'll have to wait for the manual. :-) (and wait...and wait...)

[Nick Wolf]

Every time you have to ask some clown for their "Expertise" you will be milked for cash. This solves that once and for all. Well worth the cash. I am in Europe and will fly across the ocean for this opportunity to liberate myself from the middelmen.

Also there have been several bootcamps offered and they have well exceeded this fee. This should bring them to their knees and bring down their prices too.

DogDay.

[Kevin Wild]

Every time you have to ask some clown for their "Expertise" you will be milked for cash.

Um...not on these boards. I've learned a lot around here...and it's cheap. The price is to just muddle through the posts you don't want to read...to find the nuggets.

[Peter Mosiman]

Um...not on these boards. I've learned a lot around here...and it's cheap. The price is to just muddle through the posts you don't want to read...to find the nuggets.

I agree 100%. I have learned as much here as I have in class.

[Vince K]

hmmmm....one week of wages for a lifetime of RED knowledge?? Soooo worth it.

Count me in.

[Nick Wolf]

True this site is a gold mine. And the people here are exceptionally helpful.

I am speaking subjectively. For me a course like this would be the last piece of the puzzle. A huge hurdle would be removed by getting this hands on teaching.

Dogday.

[Ryan Valle]

Sounds promising, but I'd love to see something under the curriculum section.

I'd be really interested to know to what extent this training will go to.

[Alan Gordon]

hmmmm....one week of wages for a lifetime of RED knowledge?? Soooo worth it.

Count me in.

I don't post often here, but actively follow the forums, and this statement about a lifetime of RED knowledge is false.

It is impossible to learn enough about a piece of electronics in a week to last a lifetime.

Electronics Always change. They obsolete themselves.

Even with Jim's slogan of Obsolescence obsolete, things have still changed, things will always change (that's also a Jim guarantee).

A few days of learning can be a great start, but a huge part of being knowledgeable about any electronics is keeping up with it DAILY.

-Alan Gordon

[Vince K]

I don't post often here, but actively follow the forums, and this statement about a lifetime of RED knowledge is false.

It is impossible to learn enough about a piece of electronics in a week to last a lifetime.

Electronics Always change. They obsolete themselves.

Even with Jim's slogan of Obsolescence obsolete, things have still changed, things will always change (that's also a Jim guarantee).

A few days of learning can be a great start, but a huge part of being knowledgeable about any electronics is keeping up with it DAILY.

-Alan Gordon

I was referring to the fact that for me, personally, it would be added knowledge that I can take with me and use on future gigs.
I have worked with the R1 a number of times, but like DogDay had mentioned earlier, the course will only add to what I know now, and can only help me in the long run.
That's something I can take with me and use over my lifetime.

[Kevin Wild]

Vince, the point that I would make is RED is positioning these classes as industry type classes. In other words, you'd better be a person regularly working with RED. It would take quite a few days of DI in this market to justify spending $1500 on the tech class.

I don't want to whine too much...RED can charge what they want. But I think they are about double where they should be as far as pricing. With people who travel there, you're talking a $4000 expense for a week to learn stuff that (like the other person said and RED would probably admit in a different conversation) will be obsolete soon.

I hope they reconsider their pricing. It's a no brainer for me right now. I'll take the $7500 for myself and 2 employees and put it towards the new lenses. See, RED gets my money anyways. :-)

Kevin

[Vince K]

All in all, I want to learn more about 4k RAW, and I see no one else offering this.
I would hope, that after taking this workshop, I would get more work on RED gigs as I would be MORE knowledgeable than the next guy who didn't.
I'm still very interested regardless of the price. If they bring it down, even better.

[Andrew clemson]

I agree that its a little pricey, heck, im going to have to fly for almost 20 hours to get to LA and then 20 hours back. Hoorah!

I think if people are expecting to become an expert on the RED after a 3 day or 7 day course then they'll be disappointed. I think that is why the questionnaire is there, asking role, years in the biz, number of RED jobs worked on etc. Maybe the guys will be honest and tell you if you arent that suitable? Personally I look forward to learning how to trim the fat in our workflow and get some advice from the only real experts.....RED.

Plus, I guess I can take the opportunity to take one of our R1's over with me for the audio upgrade. (or Epic swap if it coincides!) It would be a lot less stressful than watching a FEDEX man walking away with the camera in a cardboard box!

[gbalaji]

Ted,

Can people like me who worked on more than 20 commercials and 5 feature films in India can help you out take the course forward to this part of the world?

Any assistance from Red will serve professional approach for the above suggestion!

[Friedrich Moser]

Think that is extremely useful. But I will wait until there is an offer over here in EU.

All the best,

Fritz

www.blueandgreen.info

[Ryan S]

I'm looking forward to seeing more details! Definitely interested, especially if it can be up and running by the end of the summer!

[PatrickW]

Awesome. I hope someday I can attend.

[Craig Ryan]

This sounds great!

Now is this going to be something that caters to a wide spectrum of experience? Would a film student with limited set and post experience get much from the program, and likewise, would someone who's already worked on a lot of RED projects get as much from it? Is this going to be done in large lecture based scenarios or more small group, hands on lessons?

Looking forward to hearing more about the curriculum and dates.

[David Battistella]

Ted,

It is great to see that you guys are formalizing what many of us have been doing since the onset of RED with clients, students, industry professionals, other owners, post houses, producers, colleagues, associations, trade unions and media.

If you need any support in the Toronto area you can lean on me.

I hope it's a huge success.

Thanks,
David

[Obin Olson]

Happy to help on the Adobe front in terms of Post Ted if needed..

[Tai Wah Lim]

Happy to help on the Adobe front in terms of Post Ted if needed..

Plus round trip?

[Paul Leeming]

My only concern with this kind of project is that clients may think that without such a qualification one is not skilled in using Red cameras.

This couldn't be further from the truth as most of us here have been using them every day for over a year now and are well versed in every facet of operation.

Thoughts?

Paul

[Florian Stadler]

I hope it's a LOT better than Red Day.

[David Battistella]

My only concern with this kind of project is that clients may think that without such a qualification one is not skilled in using Red cameras.

This couldn't be further from the truth as most of us here have been using them every day for over a year now and are well versed in every facet of operation.

Thoughts?

Paul

Paul,
I think the main concern is insurance. Most larger productions want the assurance that the data is being handled properly and there are qualified people around to take care of any issues that arise.

MOre than anything it will just be important to demonstrate your confidence and knowledge with the process.

We all know a piece of paper only goes so far.

David

[Cory Monty]

Sounds good. I might not be in the first wave, though.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

My only concern with this kind of project is that clients may think that without such a qualification one is not skilled in using Red cameras.

I completely agree with you, Paul. I'm worried that the next thing people are going to ask of REDucation is for some official certification to show that they have taken the course and are now "qualified". Clients will be looking for this too. Like most any industry, it's competitive out there and many people find it attractive to put any potential qualification on their resume, regardless of whether it means anything or not. Many clients / customers are looking for such details too. Any potential assurance that one contractor is better than another...

With that in mind, I hope the REDucation program offers no such certificates or anything that could be wrongly considered "extra qualification". In other words, I would hate for REDucation to turn into something on the level of CCNA or MCSE certifications or other manufacturer certifications like the bogus stuff by Panduit and Leviton (to use IT examples). I have to keep my CCNA and MCSE certifications current just so clients will think me and my company are "qualified". When in reality we often do installs that have nothing to do with Cisco or Microsoft products and practices and it doesn't matter that most entry-level network techs with a partially functional brain could pass those exams, provided they have read all the necessary propaganda.

Manufacturer certification is becoming more commonplace in a lot of technical areas and it's becoming a pointless financial drain, especially on smaller businesses who find increasing pressure to have these meaningless certifications.

Anyway, I've seen too much of this sort of thing. It often starts out as a simple training seminar and people suddenly want acknowledgement on both the business and client side.

So with that in mind, I guess I want to know how I can start running official REDucation courses myself? So when the day comes where I'm being asked if I have my REDucation diploma, I don't have to say "yes", I can say I'm the guy who issues them. :thumbsup:

[Cüneyt Kaya]

easy solution, red doesnt give a certificate :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

easy solution, red doesnt give a certificate :)

I agree.

In some ways I feel that I'm over reacting... But perhaps not. And while I think the whole REDucation is a good idea, I just see it as something where it will become expected from a client point of view or possibly as false badge of superiority from the owner/op side of things. We have already seen a number of requests on these forums for "certified RED training programs"; I just don't want to see REDucation turn into such a thing where it becomes viewed as such a thing.

[Vince K]

Okay...I see what you guys are saying...but what about those of us that have 12+ years of cam assist experience in features, who understand the stress level, the importance of the shot, who get alot of work because of our skills, and all that other shit that goes with shooting SOMEONE ELSES project....pardon the Ukrainian, but we kinda want to f****n upgrade our skills too.:)
I'm an EXCELLENT 2nd. I can take a 35 mm cam apart and put it together with my eyes closed. I'm fast, knowledgeable, and get it done. Can I do it as well with RED? No. Do I want to? Of course, but there are steps I know that I have to go thru.

Because I don't own a RED camera does not mean I don't have a right to learn how this technology works.
I'm pretty sure I'm capable of working with a RED. I've proved it 7 times. It's not rocket science...to think so would be completely arrogant.
But I want to learn more.

It seems like some owners ( somewhat rightfully so) want to be the ones who are the genius's...and those of us who have been really working our asses off in the industry for years... those of us who actually GET IT and want a leg up...are on 2 opposite sides of the fence. Like WTF.
The course outline is self explanatory...the rest is up to the individual wanting to learn more.
If you can afford it...GIV'R - I know I'm going to.

All this meant in a nice way. :)

[Mike Seymour]

I agree Jeff, I fear that many of us who could probably teach the classes will end up having to go get "taught" just so we have a certificate of paper, what would be great is if they could just set up a test, because then many of us could just take that and not have to take off work to go sit in a classroom. I'm not against RED doing education, that's awesome, I just worry that it will turn like Jeff said, into a meaningless certificate.



I am not speaking for RED or speaking in an official capacity, but I have been involved with Ted a little on this and I think I can add some clarification.

A good model for this training was what happened with Steadicam a few years back. There was an intensive 'camp' where you could get away from work and really train with the gear.
This program by Red is not intended to be a way to limit Red Access and control the community with Certification. The idea is to provide the very best of immersive training with hands on time devoted to both shooting and posting/grading. The program will build out so this is just the first step but please dont think of it as a classroom bound textbook lecture situation followed by a 'required' exam and certification. The motivation is to educate and expand not certify and control. I really think this is an excellent program and over time you will come to see it as the great equalizer that I believe it is. A chance for anyone to get really good practical and creative training in an intensive environment. As with all things RED this is not yet a complete program rolling out immediately - so your input I am sure is very welcome, but if I can give you my take - this will grow into an invaluable creative program of real value to the industry.

Mike

Red Centre Podcast
www.fxguide.com

[Shane Betts]

I'm having enough trouble getting folk to take my writing and directing potential seriously because I have a head for tech things. Please don't give me a Red Diploma to force me into that box more. I just want the info to do my job better while I get my films up and provide me with some kind of employability if Spielberg doesn't call :cool:

[Raul Gonzo]

When can we expect the site to be updated with more info?

[Corey Culp]

I agree.

In some ways I feel that I'm over reacting... But perhaps not. And while I think the whole REDucation is a good idea, I just see it as something where it will become expected from a client point of view or possibly as false badge of superiority from the owner/op side of things. We have already seen a number of requests on these forums for "certified RED training programs"; I just don't want to see REDucation turn into such a thing where it becomes viewed as such a thing.

I don't think you're overreacting at all, Jeff. There are plenty of Avid rental houses that for years would only hire Avid techs with not just the ACSR certificate/training that Avid overcharges for, but it had to be current. And by "current", that's annually. (They've also raised the price considerably to $2750 for a 5-day class.)

Also, I surely hope that just because somebody went through the entire week of Red training, that they're capable of being a DIT, DP, etc. on a Red production. There are a bunch of GREAT Red-centric DPS, DITs, and such out there, I hope these clients don't just look at the certificate as a means to hire or not hire. If they do, they could end up with a a big ole' mess and such a distaste in their mouth, they won't want to shoot with Red again.

If I were to pretend that I have read ever post made on this board, and make a (somewhat) ignorant statement like "the only promise that Jim ever made, was expect change", these classes would be key for a lot of folks to make themselves current every year. (It sure would make more sense than Avid's annual approach, as their products don't change nearly as often as Red's.)

EDIT:
I am not speaking for RED or speaking in an official capacity, but I have been involved with Ted a little on this and I think I can add some clarification.

A good model for this training was what happened with Steadicam a few years back. There was an intensive 'camp' where you could get away from work and really train with the gear.
This program by Red is not intended to be a way to limit Red Access and control the community with Certification. The idea is to provide the very best of immersive training with hands on time devoted to both shooting and posting/grading. The program will build out so this is just the first step but please dont think of it as a classroom bound textbook lecture situation followed by a 'required' exam and certification. The motivation is to educate and expand not certify and control. I really think this is an excellent program and over time you will come to see it as the great equalizer that I believe it is. A chance for anyone to get really good practical and creative training in an intensive environment. As with all things RED this is not yet a complete program rolling out immediately - so your input I am sure is very welcome, but if I can give you my take - this will grow into an invaluable creative program of real value to the industry.

Mike

Red Centre Podcast
www.fxguide.com

Being a fxphd student, I can say I've learned a lot about Red through the variety of the courses that Mike and John provide, so I put a lot of stock in what they have to say. They (along with Torrey Loomis' enormous generosity sending out those DVDs full of R3D files last year) have helped me understand the Red post workflow via their tutorials and hands-on at home. I consider them totally invaluable.

After reading Mike's post (and affirming the ridiculousness of Avid/MS' approaches) I could only imagine how cool it's going to be to take these classes, and to be able to turn to an instructor when I'm stymied.

[Adam Glick]

Conferences/training sessions like this are valuable for many of the same reasons that events like NAB and SIGGRAPH are valuable -you will get concentrated access to the brightest and most knowledgeable minds in this industry as well as hand-on exposure to the related technologies.

A few days away from work and few thousand bucks may be a good chunk of time/cash for You. But consider the following questions:

Are You really serious about making RED part of your business strategy ?

Is your time perhaps too valuable to be spent fumbling around, sifting through raw data (some accurate, some way off the mark) on reduser.net?

Do you consider "networking" with like-minded professionals in the same line of work to be time well spent?

Do you have burning questions you need to have answered directly by authoritative sources?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is "yes" then maybe this is the type of investment in yourself and your company that you should seriously consider.

[TedRed]

Hello Everyone,

I'm just on the way back from a great week in Vegas... great to read all the comments and feedback... more than anything this tells me that we are on the right track, so keep it coming, and don't worry if it's on the critical side of things, I want to see the pros and cons from everyone's perspective.

Just like everything else at RED, nothing about REDucation is set in stone, or will be set in stone in the future. We will learn, modify, enhance and better the program each time it's taught.

It is interesting to me that there is much discussion on a "certification" after completing the class successfully. We have had much debate from the team creating the program on this topic as well, and see the both sides of the argument pretty clearly. What we have come up so far (subject to change of course) it that we would issue a certificate of completion, so that those that have taken the course can use it as needed, for whatever reason they see fit.

This does not instantly mean that all that complete the course will be great at doing RED production and post work - there is much more to that, that is only cultivated by doing successful jobs, and building experience. I would suggest that as much as possible, those working in the RED production and post field spend some time and energy gathering completed projects they have worked on as a reel of work, and recommendations from producers, directors, UPMs DPs, Ist ACs etc. This holds more weight to me than a class completion certificate.

One of the things we will be focusing on as part of REDucation, is on set practices, and set etiquette for creating a positive environment - the tool is still relatively new, and sometimes the RED tech knows more about exposure and overall best sweet spots for image creation than others on the set - navigating the on set teaching of others to get them comfortable with what's going on with on set monitoring, exposure choices, lighting color temp choices, etc., etc. can be a challenge (but that's what make the gig fun right?)

We will be posting the curriculum overview when we are ready for that stage (a few more long meetings and internal testing sessions till we are ready - NAB kind of got in the way of that progress for a bit)

The biggest reason for creating REDucation, so you all know, is a constant reach-out to RED, that there are not enough qualified RED techs that really know this new tool and the proper on set practices to make the best pictures on the gig, and not enough people know enough about all the various options and best practices for RED post production. Our goal is to help that along in a fun, immersive, fully hands on way for those that are interested. The RED techs that have that unique combination of really understanding the camera, the on set viewing and file prep options for post are in extremely high demand, the industry clearly needs more of them.

We are excited to see the level of initial interest, and will be working on this as much as we can (along with all the other interesting things happening at RED that keep us up working, while you are all on the set shooting!)

Thanks

+ Ted

[Vince K]

I realize there is still more planning ahead for this, but I was wondering if this was something that would start in early fall, or early 2010?

[David Battistella]

I realize there is still more planning ahead for this, but I was wondering if this was something that would start in early fall, or early 2010?

Vince,

I think the spirit of RED is to share information. I think that anyone who is good at what they do will only extend those skills to a RED package on a shoot. You are still going to prep, etc. the way you would.

As a camera owner I have had the same attitude since day one. It's in everyones interest to see every single RED shoot succeed. Early mix-ups and misinformation created havoc an unnecessary panic. When clients are shown the quality of the image, the workflow and all of it's advantages (even though many have "dissed" the workflow) they can see it all as a positive experience.

I think that establishing a set of standards is a good thing and I think that is what REDucation is going to be about (although I am not involved in it).

To me REDUCATION should establish a GLOBAL industry standard that can be applied between cities, countries, trade unions, etc. I believe that RED needs to establish and formalize a basic methodology that takes every precaution to ensure the integrity of the digital information, how it is captured, stored,etc.

By completing a course it tells producers, bonders and insurers and anyone involved in production that a base level of knowledge has been attained, the rest is up to the individual.

How this is executed is completely up to RED, but I also believe that they should also take this opportunity to have CERTIFIED REPAIR CENTERS in KEY LOCATIONS WORLDWIDE (I know they are planning a London office), this would probably be much more extensive, but as the company grows so will the need to have these types of centers.

I hope in some way this can be a helpful post.

David

[Michael Grugal]

That seems really expensive

[David Battistella]

That seems really expensive

How?

It just really means setting standards and best practices established by RED. What's expensive?

David

[Andrew clemson]

Im looking forward to getting more details. Not least so's I can book my vacation without double booking the dates!

[Sally Shamas]

Expensive but definitely worth it .

[Andrew clemson]

Out of interest, any chance of a show of hands as to who's going in for this?

[Christian Edwards]

may be a good opportunity for a comprehensive official training dvd aswell ,which would help reach a broader market/geographically challenged ... just a though

[Vince K]

Out of interest, any chance of a show of hands as to who's going in for this?
chalk me up.

....and I'd buy a dvd as well. :)

[Alec Morris]

Certificates don't mean much, and I would hope most people in hiring positions are smart enough to understand that. The most incompetent person I have EVER worked with on a Red project had gone through one of the Red training programs already in place (not run by Red of course). Was it the programs fault he was incompetent? Absolutely not. Stupid people are just stupid. Talented people are talented. There is no certificate in the world that can tell you which category a person is in.

I was thinking, when it comes time to upgrade to the new Epics and Scarlets, might Reducation offer a special cheap (or free!!! hehe) one day Epic/scarlet course for Red One owners?

[Dan Blanchett]

Even though I have owned my camera for 15 months, I am always learning. I am considering this class, especially the post side.

But if the class takes place before EPIC/Scarlet arrive, and focusses only on the Red One, it would be nice to have a significantly discounted option to attend a future class that focuses on those new systems. For those who shell out $2500 on a Red One-centric workshop, that would be a reasonable added-value gesture to make the plunge more worth it.

[Andrew clemson]

I know its not a definite offer of hands on experience with the new cameras, but the REDucation site does say:

"The development of next Generation Scarlet and Epic cameras will also be presented and discussed"

I agree, If early classes focus on R1, and future classes include Epic as standard, (That is, if Epic workflow differs massively) then a discount on a second shorter, 1 or 2 day epic catch up would be one option of a way to go.

I would hazard a guess that a lot will be similar between the workflow of the two camera systems, and that the biggest difference would be rigging and setup.

Fingers crossed anyway.

[david farland]

DVD is the best idea I've ever heard regarding Red education...
Especially if you're got those expensive guys/materials in one room.
I now Red know it's not about making money with education, it's about spreading the Red love round the world.

D

[Mark L. Pederson]

DVD is the best idea I've ever heard regarding Red education...
Especially if you're got those expensive guys/materials in one room.
I now Red know it's not about making money with education, it's about spreading the Red love round the world.

D

Even better would be to get the school up online. I think www.Adobe.tv is a good example of how to do this. Reach the GLOBE instantly.

RED hardware and third party software are fast moving targets - having videos produces at the sessions and after the fact - would allow RED to be able to edit, remove and update videos as things change. YES this is a big undertaking with costs - but it could be set up as SaaS with a small monthly subscription to offset admin. costs - and you could also subsidize with third party sponsors - who could have a "RED-approved" product video (that they produce) posted for a fee.

Anyway, I think the whole concept is fantastic - excited to see how it develops.

[Christian Edwards]

Even better would be to get the school up online. I think www.Adobe.tv (http://www.Adobe.tv) is a good example of how to do this. Reach the GLOBE instantly.

RED hardware and third party software are fast moving targets - having videos produces at the sessions and after the fact - would allow RED to be able to edit, remove and update videos as things change. YES this is a big undertaking with costs - but it could be set up as SaaS with a small monthly subscription to offset admin. costs - and you could also subsidize with third party sponsors - who could have a "RED-approved" product video (that they produce) posted for a fee.

Anyway, I think the whole concept is fantastic - excited to see how it develops.
Red tv! sounds fantastic... could also help to clear up some of the camera and workflow issues and take some of the weight off the forum. a good way to keep upto date with all things Red

[Raul Gonzo]

DVD and online stuff does sound good for post workflow- but I feel that the technical aspect will be much better hands on. Also, the interaction you have between people as you work on a project is very valuable. Going through the course of a production and asking questions as they arise simply can't be replaced.

[Tim Whitcomb]

I just paid a deposit and got this message after payment....

Safari can’t open the page “https://www.reducation.net/thanks.html” because it couldn’t establish a secure connection to the server “www.reducation.net”.

now what?

[Christian Edwards]

I just paid a deposit and got this message after payment....

Safari can’t open the page “https://www.reducation.net/thanks.html” (https://www.reducation.net/thanks.html%E2%80%9D) because it couldn’t establish a secure connection to the server “www.reducation.net” (http://www.reducation.net%E2%80%9D).

now what?
THANK YOU
You will be notified of the upcoming training dates and location and confirmation of your attendance via email shortly. REDucation has a limited amounts of seats to insure ample hands on and proper instructor participant ratio and you will be notified with the training availability.

try this link:)

http://www.reducation.net/thanks.html

[Mark L. Pederson]

DVD and online stuff does sound good for post workflow- but I feel that the technical aspect will be much better hands on. Also, the interaction you have between people as you work on a project is very valuable. Going through the course of a production and asking questions as they arise simply can't be replaced.

100% agree.

I was suggesting a RED.tv to be an extension of REDucation. This way - people around the world can get access to information. And I think it's really important to acknowledge how fast all of this is moving. You can teach a "best practice" and three months later - there's firmware change, new third-party software, new third party hardware - and a new BETTER practice. I love "hand-on" workshops - this is the very best way to train - but I think there is a HUGE opportunity here to EXTEND the reach of REDucation - which could also feature INTERNALLY PRODUCED videos from time-to-time about key things related to the camera, etc.

[Raul Gonzo]

Absolutely Mark, that would be a great extension. I also like the idea mentioned before- coming back once a year (or so) for one or two day update training.

[david farland]

I come from an IT background and the best face to face training courses I've done is where you get super saturated with information and in the heat of the battle you go back to your course notes/books to find out how to do it. From technical to management the technique is the same. I came away from these courses knowing I got my money's worth.
You may have a wrangling job to do next day so you'll go quietly thru the procedures you learnt in class before hand. There is no substitute for experience (read: doing it before) so therefore it's either with a cup of coffee before hand with your course notes or on set in a melee as people quitely think, nah....next time it's someone else.

People learn in different ways.....at school most of us where encouraged to soak up and recall the information we learnt in class or read once afterwards. Even practicals where just copying what the teacher or others around you were doing. I was slow. I had to do it my way and let it soak in. Give me the road map and let me do it myself.

The lesson is only to provide the frame work whilst the course notes provide all the fine detail. Even if they have the memory of a goldfish (like me) the can work out strategies from the fine detail.

Personally I find slow walk throughs an insult to my mind/wallet. Even worst when 5 other guys have to do it as well! So here's the thing. I'll happily pay $100/hr if I can fly throught the work and know afterwards I have the material at hand to go thru it at my leisure or more probably, the night before a job.
Trouble is a lot of Red info/tools are rapidly evolving, so I hope Red structure there course material in such a way so they can easily swap out content as it get update...bit like the Red manual...only properly structured.


But's there more......

Getting Red practitioners up to speed will help in the success/uptake somewhat.
Okay you probably have 50,000 practitioners who could directly benefit from this training, so procedural manuals & videos are vital.........!!

But the real barriers to the uptake of Red is producers, DOP's, directors, editors, colorists,....etc etc,
Free high level training/workshops for these guys would have a huge impact on the industry. These are the guys who can determine whether a job is a Red one or not. I think they deserve a bit more attention than a trade show!

My suggestion is the handout of a free video/download aimed at producers, DOP's, directors, editors, colorists etc. It would also provide a good overview for the hands-on guys. The industry is still in confusion with Red production/post even though we're just starting to find non-Red people are beginning to get it, I'd say 90% of the industry is where we were 10 months ago. How good would of it been to have an high level end to end video of shooting & editing with Red 10 months ago!

Dave,

[Nir Shelter]

Many have mentioned this already but I think/feel I need to say it as well.
A knowledge base that will set a benchmark of knowledge for professional work is great. More so initiatives by Red to further help their customers and users is great.

But a "course" of study will hardly if at all prepare someone for real life shooting scenarios. Many amateurs and otherwise incompetent people will claim "Expert" Red status thanks to a course. This doesn't mean they actually know what to do with a camera and on set and may create more damage to the production than good. This can then backfire at Red by having suddenly "Red certified" crew screw up a shoot or gear.
The flip side of this is that professionals or other wise very competent crew will be expected to have this certification. Those who can't afford it seeing as they are paying off the constant upgrade of their gear and setup (on set NLEs, on set grading systems, on set LTO systems, on set tower raids, etc..). Not to mention the fact that they live half a world away from the course. Will be denied jobs, as they don't have the “correct” certification as seen by the, none the wiser, "client".

More than that whatever knowledge delivered in the course will not necessarily be readily available and used on set if needed where as a written manual will be. I agree with David F it should be a downloadable video or a manual we can carry around or look at to brush up on when needed.

If anything a hands on short Red courses should be offered to film schools and universities. As these are the next gen of industry workers that will be using the systems. Seeing as it would be part of a diploma or degree it wouldn't be missed on any resume. Make the short Red courses available to industry professionals as well and in that way deliver new information. Help the professional community, develop the next generation of users and mix professional experience with soon to be industry workers.

[Peter Rollins]

this is such a great idea.

[TedRed]

All good comments - keep em coming. For Tim that had trouble with the deposit section of the website, did you get that worked out or do we need to assist?

Regarding the online components of REDucation, both as continued education for those that have taken the 7 day course, and an online version of the course - all being discussed and worked through. I'm personally a fan on in person, face to face, hands on learning, instead an online version, but certainly understand the value of both. If the online component of REDucation can enhance and add continued value to what we are trying to accomplish with the on site classes, I'm all for it.

What Adobe TV does, and Apple does with their tutorial videos and our friends at fxphd do are certainly very valuable and impressive in their own right. So we will find a way to create value with online learning, potentially both a free version for all to benefit from and a paid version with highly advanced, in depth online courses.

+ Ted

[Mark L. Pederson]

potentially both a free version for all to benefit from and a paid version with highly advanced, in depth online courses.

+ Ted
Mark likes.

[Steve Sherrick]

Yes, a combination of hands on and on-line learning sounds good.

I can attest to the "Certified" thing being used in the wrong way. I ran a RED workshop and found out that one of the people taking the workshop then went around telling people he was a "RED Certified DP".

[TedRed]

Dates have been posted for REDucation:

http://www.reducation.net/dates.html

July 20 - 26, 2009 - Los Angeles, CA
October 12 - 18, 2009 - Los Angeles, CA
November 9 - 15, 2009 - Los Angeles, CA
December 4 - 10, 2009 - Los Angeles, CA

We will be posting a overview of the curriculum as our next step... coming soon.

[Andrew clemson]

I guess the only question now is whether taking the earlier july course would deny you certain benefits of later dates, such as access to Epics/Scarlets that might only be available later in the year?

[Christian Edwards]

I guess the only question now is whether taking the earlier july course would deny you certain benefits of later dates, such as access to Epics/Scarlets that might only be available later in the year?
id imagin most people in recivership of their REDONE would be more enticed for the inital Reducation induction id say the majority of tuition covered in the 7 day schooling would still be applicable post the epic / scarlet onslaught - minus a brushup course on new camera functionality both internally and externally... which im sure is not a far reach from where R1 is at now . As far as workflow gos its forever changing and hard to put a standards on work practices but, fundamentals always stay the same ...there are exceptions though ;) ....

obviously i can't categorically say for certain! just thought id chime in fule for thought and all that. if youre not comfortable dont gamble, Reds not going anywhere... well at least we hope not

all the best

[TedRed]

Hello Everyone,

The Curriculum for the RED tech part of REDucation is up on the Website now... this is just an overview of what we plan to cover, there will likely be more as we refine, and much of what we cover is designed to be hands on learning as you know if you've been following this thread. Looking forward to feedback and suggestions.

http://www.reducation.net/curriculum.html

+ Ted

[TedRed]

FYI - we are working on the Curriculum for the Post Production part of REDucation now - we will likely post that early next week.

We will also be starting the process of interviewing for the teaching staff very soon, stay tuned for contact info, etc. if you are interested in being an instructor, teaching assistant, or guest speaker for REDucation...

(and by the way, we are having a lot of fun putting this all together, I think the classes are going to be very interesting and valuable for those that have the time to take them - There is so much RED work happening now all over the planet, I get the reachout for more qualified people in the field every day, I presume many of you do as well)

+ Ted

[Vince K]

Hello Everyone,

The Curriculum for the RED tech part of REDucation is up on the Website now... this is just an overview of what we plan to cover, there will likely be more as we refine, and much of what we cover is designed to be hands on learning as you know if you've been following this thread. Looking forward to feedback and suggestions.

http://www.reducation.net/curriculum.html

+ Ted

That is EXACTLY what I was looking for!
I may be just a 2nd, but my job DEMANDS that I know my shit, that I'm wickedly fast and good at what I do, and that I am up to date with the newest tools....or I don't work. It's a no-brainer here.
This course will DEFINITELY help me, and I'll be sitting up front. :)
...saving up the pennies....:)

[michael beck]

Man.. I really want to attend.. but I do need to buy the camera.. so maybe later on down the road I will have the cash :)

[Casey Green]

Looking good, Ted.

[david farland]

Ted,
Very nice list. couple of more things if not covered in there somewhere....

- data recovery techniques
- monitoring using LUTS to reflect distribution format.
- full render playback procedures to check noise/blowouts.
- exposure sweet points & how to get them in different lighting scenarios (i.e. filters)

D

[TedRed]

Thanks guys - the enthusiasm for what we are doing is very helpful for the group that is planning the classes.

Great suggestions David to add to the list of RED tech curriculum - We'll get that stuff in there for sure.

(the "how to use LUTs" thing could be an entirely separate course :-)

+ Ted

[Dan Blanchett]

What the reason for the big gap between July and October? I wanted to go in July but simply can't miss my annual comic-con trip.

[Casey Green]

It might also be helpful (without getting too political) to describe the different aspects of the job per type of production for the RED Tech.

In my experience, this job can be anything from simply backing up and logging data, to helping the DP monitor exposure and focus, to completely operating the Camera Menus and offering help with Framerate, Shutter, Exposure, and TimeCode settings, etc.

The idea is that each production offers many different scenarios and needs, and this impacts the job description of the RED Tech on that particular job, whether it be an Indie Short, a non-union Music Video, a Commercial, or a Union Feature Film.

Food for thought. ;-)

[Lyndel Crosley, SOC]

Yay, You go Ted !

[TedRed]

post curriculum is up on the website now:

http://reducation.net/curriculum.html

And you are absolutely correct Casey - there are so many roles that a RED tech may be expected to take on, from data wrangling, to DP assist, to on set editorial and grading... The Flexibility of the Camera and On set file workflows adds it's own new set of rules and when to bend or break them accordingly... We will do our best to navigate as much of that as possible in the classes with as much hands on training as we can.

[david farland]

Coming together very well Ted....!!

- Have you considered a section on handling Red files in log/linear space depending on distribution, i.e transfers consideration, limits etc.

- Also a section which covers stressing R3D's in capture (no blue light) and the results in post.

If there was ever a subject that warranted a dvd series this one does! forget Jim's wedding, get the pilot to shoot this!

D

[Tim Whitcomb]

Noce work Ted. I registered and completed the survey but please know
that after paying via paypal, the THANK YOU page gave me an error message
that said the

"server could not be reached"

I also completed the survey, but never got email confirmation.

I trust these are just some early kinks being worked out?

Regardless, very excited for the week long seminars. This is awesome

[Stacey Spears]

I encountered the same error page. It seems thanks.html is missing.

[TedRed]

I'll have the gang check on the web server issue on the Thank You page.

Thanks for the heads up - they will post here when it's fixed.

+ Ted

[Andrew Benz]

Hi Ted,

Question, since there is only one Reducation session for this summer, am I in danger of missing it if I do not register soon? I ask because I have an incredible grant that pays for focused training like this and it takes a couple weeks or so to get it cleared through the various bosses. I do NOT want to miss out this summer because I will be slammed this fall.

Thank you Ted. I look forward to finally having the opportunity to meet you guys and some fellow Red Users as well.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Tim Whitcomb]

THANK YOU
You will be notified of the upcoming training dates and location and confirmation of your attendance via email shortly. REDucation has a limited amounts of seats to insure ample hands on and proper instructor participant ratio and you will be notified with the training availability.

try this link:)

http://www.reducation.net/thanks.html

wait a second, does this mean just because I paid a deposit, I am NOT guaranteed a seat? That would really be lame... please clarify your comment
above.

thanks!

[TedRed]

According to the logistics team, the Registration issue has been resolved. Please let us know if it's still happening.

Regarding the amount of slots in the first class, we are working on that now - it's a balance between trying to accommodate as many people that want to be in the first class, and not make the first class too large. Note that the very first session we will all be learning what we are doing right, and what we need to do better. We want to be very careful to insure that the hands on goal of the class is just that, so there is a point where too many students is counter productive.

We are working on figuring it out - and if there is demand for another class in late summer, before the 2nd planned class in October - we can try and add another session.

+ Ted

[Andrew clemson]

Im processing my payment through the boss either today or tomorrow. What are the odds ill get a slot in that first class?

[Jeff Seckendorf]

I'm Jeff Seckendorf, part of the logistical team that's producing REDucation. We've been getting some questions about availability...as of right now, there are still some slots open in the July workshop. If you sent in a deposit, you have a seat reserved and you have until the end of the day next Friday, May 22, to remit your balance using the registration form that was emailed to you. After that, your seat may go to the next person in line and your deposit returned or applied to a future workshop.

Starting this week, in order to register you'll have to remit full payment. Here's the link to the registration page: http://reducation.net/registration.html

Please let us know if you have any questions.

Jeff

[david farland]

Please let us know if you have any questions.

Jeff

What's the class size?

D

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Max of 40 students, which will give us a good balance of having enough slots to accommodate demand but still give everyone plenty of hands on time with the gear and individual time with the instructors and TA's.

Jeff

[Andrew Benz]

Hi Jeff, what do we need to bring? Any gear or laptops?

Thank you-- Andrew

[Jeff Seckendorf]

We are planning on having all the equipment there for you.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

The application for REDucation instructors, teaching assistants, production assistants, and support staff is now on line: http://reducation.net/instructors.html

We have a pretty good sized list of interested people, so if you would like to be considered, the sooner you submit, the better. We'll be interviewing in early June.

Jeff

[Stacey Spears]

Has a location been chosen in LA for the training?

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Has a location been chosen in LA for the training?

Soon.

[Andrew clemson]

When will we be notified of final class allocations? After friday? Im looking forward to booking my flights.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Just a reminder that if you have a deposit in for REDucation in July but have not made the full payment by tomorrow, May 22, your reservation may go to the next person in line. Any questions about this, please let me know.

Best,

Jeff

[Michael Schmitt]

You know, I'm reading the curriculum and I would really love to take this class. Can't afford it now, buying another house and I work for a company that could be going on strike at any moment.

Looks valuable to a Red novice, like me.

Perhaps a later class, when Scarlet is about to come out...? Hope so.

[Chris Parker]

any news to report? are the classes full yet?

really just wanted to bump this post.....

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Classes are filling. We're close to signing a location and should be able to announce that early next week. Actually, we'll have lots to announce next week, stay tuned. It's all looking really good.

Jeff

[Dean Abrigana]

That's good to hear. I need to book my flight and hotel soon.

[JosephArthur]

We do a Tribal Film classes during the summer called the Tribal Touring Program. Quite abit of tribes get together and we teach Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, (this year Motion for the first time), acting, and sound engineering.
We mainly do 7-10 minute shorts. Or many Cultural Documentaries or Native Language preservation videos.

This year is the first year with a Red Camera (and perhaps with Silverado Systems & Torrey Loomis, we could see more than one at a time).

But its all for the kids ages 12-20. And yes some can use Final Cut Pro quite smoothly. We teach 40-50 kids at a time with HD cameras, until each kid can get their own Red Camera.

Would there be a way for REDucation for onsite training? Or getting kids off the Rez (Indian Reservation) to LA may be quite the adventure as well. We are in Northern California.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Hi Joseph,

The plan for this year is the four scheduled workshops will be held in Los Angeles. As we know, everything RED is subject to change, but probably not that.

It sounds like you have a great program running.

Best,

Jeff

[Andrew clemson]

Sorry to be a pain, any idea on locations for the July workshop? I have to figure out my travel schedule. I need to pop into RED before the course to drop one of our cameras off for upgrading and pick it up afterwards... Will the course be nearby?

[Steffen Vala]

At first glance, this looks great Jeff!
I´m looking forward to some REDucation on the other side of the Atlantic.
Or maybe Ill have to make a trip back to SoCal.

[Marc A Hutchins]

Actually, we'll have lots to announce next week, stay tuned. It's all looking really good.

Jeff

I've been on the edge of my seat waiting for the "announcements." I've clicked my Ruby slippers 3 times saying, "There's no better time for a class than August, there's no better time for a class than August, there's no better time for a class than August."
That, followed by, "Where's that RED coupon when you need it?!"

[Dean Abrigana]

Any updates on the location, etc.?

[Jeff Seckendorf]

REDucation has a location! We have just entered into an agreement with L.A. Center Studios as the new home for the REDucation workshops and REDuction Community Day.

Located in the heart of downtown Los Angeles, the studio is the production home to the hit series Mad Men, and has seen countless great films come through - Dreamgirls, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Adaptation, The Aviator, Vanilla Sky, and many others.

We'll be holding RED Tech and RED Post on a sound stage on the studio lot. Community Day will be in great open space overlooking downtown and we'll be screening footage in a beautiful 300+ seat theater.

All that, plus the food is amazing.

Here's the link: www.lacenterstudios.com

We'll have hotel info coming to the participants shortly. The closet airport is LAX.

[Vince K]

That's great news. What a great location!

[Zack CC]

cool... now for the next move...

REDucation :: The College Years

RED meets film school.

Tagline: Hook em while they're young.

:cool:

- Fall 2009 -

[Andrew clemson]

sweet. what would the travel time be between the location and RED? I need to take one of our cameras in for service before the course starts and pick it up after.

[Stephen Lovett]

It's about 50 miles from Downtown LA to Lake Forest.

It's better early, six a.m. or so and late, after midnight. But you have to be there during business hours so you are going to have to deal with traffic.

Therefore it's going to eat most of a day for a round trip.

Traffic in LA is horrific. I did a very similar trip last year. I was staying at USC, just a few miles from LA Center Studios, and took a Canon in for repair in Irvine, which is actually a bit closer. I headed out early, just after six a.m., and it still took nearly two hours to get there. a little more to get back.

I was thinking about making the pilgrimage to Redquarters while I'm there, and I'll bet others from the class will want to visit Red while in LA. The the carpool lane does make a difference (more than one person required.)

It might make sense to see if you could make at least one of the trips with someone along.

See you soon,

Steve

[Stephen Lovett]

All that, plus the food is amazing.


Hi Jeff,

That's great, often that important point is overlooked.

But... I think we may be morally obligated to see that visitors from outside the US are given the full on American breakfast at the Original Pantry, and a chance at a burger at In and Out or Fatburger. :)

Plus, I know I've got a 2:00 a.m. post shoot run to Pinks for a chilidog to work into the schedule somewhere :cool:

Steve

[Andrew clemson]

It's about 50 miles from Downtown LA to Lake Forest.

It's better early, six a.m. or so and late, after midnight. But you have to be there during business hours so you are going to have to deal with traffic.

Therefore it's going to eat most of a day for a round trip.


Hmmm..... that being said, what are the operating hours/days? I have no problem trying to squeeze a few more "working" days either side of the course if I can justify it by being able to get the camera safely to REDHQ and pick it up again. It would be nice to get out of the heat here for as long as humanly possible!

I was going to fly in to SanFran and drive down to LA, mainly because the flights from here are less busy, much cheaper (and because I hear the drive down the Pacific coast highway is amazing)

Would there be a way to sidetrack central LA and head straight for the Lake forest, drop off the camera, and then head to LA to save some hassle? Or am I dreaming?

[Conrad Hunziker]

I was going to fly in to SanFran and drive down to LA, mainly because the flights from here are less busy, much cheaper (and because I hear the drive down the Pacific coast highway is amazing)

That drive is amazing - I do it when I can. You should prepare for a day of driving, 8+ hours, to do it justice.



Would there be a way to sidetrack central LA and head straight for the Lake forest, drop off the camera, and then head to LA to save some hassle? Or am I dreaming?

You could fly into San Diego or even into John Wayne Airport. If you fly into San Diego, you could drop it off on the 3 hour trip to LA. John Wayne would be a bit of backtracking, but its close. However, neither of those have direct flights from UAE, so you'd be looking at at least one connection in the US.

If I were you, Id stick to your original plan - the Pacific Coast is just too good. And since you'll have your Red.....

[Marc A Hutchins]

Hi Jeff,

But... I think we may be morally obligated to see that visitors from outside the US are given the full on American breakfast at the Original Pantry, and a chance at a burger at In and Out or Fatburger. :)

Plus, I know I've got a 2:00 a.m. post shoot run to Pinks for a chilidog to work into the schedule somewhere :cool:

Steve

Pink's has never done it for me, but I guess everyone should give it a try. As for In-N-Out? Now there's a CA staple.

[Marc A Hutchins]

Are the classes full for July? Can you post number of vacant spots for both classes (even if simply an estimate)? I still plan to come over and play, but there are so many variables on the east coast right now. I would really like to attend both classes and melt my brain in the process.

Which beckons my next question: having very limited experience with the RED, but obtaining one soon, will I be lost in these classes? I am self-taught (6 years now), shot DVCPRO HD, and understand production from development to distro; however, I'm more of a utility player than a position player. My strong suit is producing, as I can manage the snot out of most productions, and can empathize with each player, generally speaking the professional language well enough to find the restroom and a bar. I want to be the 'goto' guy in my neck of the woods as RED grows, so I'm buying, renting myself with the RED (when not shooting my stuff), and immersing myself in the RED culture (yeah, I've been reading all ya'lls blogs).

Money spent on REDucation is money well spent - that's my motto, that and a bunch of cutesy saying that are taped all over my monitors and wall.

[Stephen Lovett]

Pink's has never done it for me,

In fact I'm not a huge fan either, but the exception of a Denny's on every corner in downtown, there aren't many things open at two.

It's very LA to be standing in a long line at two a.m., and see a bunch of other folks with camera tape hanging off their belts. :beer:

Steve

[JosephArthur]

I would love to go. But we have our American Indian Film Institute staff coming to our Reservation. Unless there was a way to bring REDucation to our Tribes.

I personally purchased one RED Camera and may purchase another one (if the first one ever gets here). But the kids will purchase their own RED cameras to play around with.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

I'll try to get all these recent questions:

Andrew, flying into San Francisco and driving down will be an amazing trip, but the 8+ hours is accurate (or maybe even a bit conservative). Beautiful, though. RED is in the exact opposite direction.

Marc, in July there are two or three slots left for Tech, about six for Post. Oct has room.

And Marc again, you should be fine in the class, especially with your background in production and a basic understanding of digital workflow.

Steve, we can arrange a field trip to Pinks if you need it.

See you all in downtown LA next month.

Jeff

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Community Day registration is now open. Here's the link:

http://reducation.net/community_day.html

Jeff

[Alexander Alexandrov]

Just registered for community day in July.
can someone update me on the classes offered/available or refer to a proper link.
thanks

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Here you go: www.reducation.net.

[Stephen Lovett]

Pink's was more of a Joke Jeff, :thumbsup: but thanks for your generosity. (I'll have my car for any culinary necessities.)

Am I correct in assuming that those of us attending all seven days are already registered for community day as part of our package, or do we need to sign up at the link above as well?

thanks,

Steve

[Peter Majtan]

Jeff - please check Your PM's...

:) Peter

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Steve, yes, Community Day registration is included for all RED Tech and RED Post students.

Jeff

[Dean Abrigana]

Jeff, any word of a hotel? Will we be getting special rates and is it within reasonable walking distance and not require me to wear body armor?

[Andrew clemson]

Jeff, any word of a hotel? Will we be getting special rates and is it within reasonable walking distance and not require me to wear body armor?

body armour? For those of us not familiar with the location, what kind of neighbourhood is the studio in?!?

[Stephen Lovett]

Having spent better than a month in the area last year, Dean is overstating the case a bit, probably for humor, but...

A couple of miles south it is down right dangerous. (Does the phrase "south central" ring any bells?) The nearest grocery store to where I stayed last year had guards outside, and runs a free guarded shuttle so that people won't be afraid to shop at night.

Downtown isn't anywhere near that bad IMHO. Treat it like any large metropolitan downtown area and you'll be OK.

I wouldn't go wandering around late at night by yourself however.

Steve

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Hotel info will be coming out today or tomorrow.

Jeff

[Stacey Spears]

Jeff,

When will we be receiving emails confirming we are in the July class?

[Jeff Seckendorf]

The confirmations are going out today...

Jeff

[Andrew clemson]

Having spent better than a month in the area last year, Dean is overstating the case a bit, probably for humor, but...

A couple of miles south it is down right dangerous. (Does the phrase "south central" ring any bells?) The nearest grocery store to where I stayed last year had guards outside, and runs a free guarded shuttle so that people won't be afraid to shop at night.

Downtown isn't anywhere near that bad IMHO. Treat it like any large metropolitan downtown area and you'll be OK.

I wouldn't go wandering around late at night by yourself however.

Steve

So I don't need to avoid wearing blue or red? Studio looks awesome, looking forward to july!

[Dean Abrigana]

body armour? For those of us not familiar with the location, what kind of neighbourhood is the studio in?!?

Lol I'm sorry if I raised any hairs on the back of your neck but as Stephen pointed out, the tail end of my question was to be made in jest. He is right, however, there are some pretty dangerous neighborhoods and if I can get away with not having to drive to and from the hotel(I live in SF btw, and while I haven't done the drive to L.A., I imagine it would be amazing), I'm more than willing to walk.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Here are a few hotel recommendations for REDucation and Community Day:

Sheraton Downtown Hotel
711 S. Hope St.
Los Angeles, CA 90017
Reservations: 800-325-3535
Local number: 213-612-3113
Rate: $99 per night plus tax, must book by June 24.
Mention the REDucation Courtesy Block when booking.
Click here for the website (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1598).

Westin Bonaventure
404 S Figueroa St.
Los Angeles, CA 90071
(213) 612-4743
Rate: $129 per night plus tax
Click here for website (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1004).

Marriott Hotel
333 S. Figueroa St.
Los Angeles, CA 90071
213-617-1133 / 800-228-9290
Rate: $129 per night plus tax
Click here for website (http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/laxdt-los-angeles-marriott-downtown/).

The Standard
550 S. Flower St.
Los Angeles, CA 90071
213-892-8080
Rate: $135 per night plus tax
Mention the LA Center Studios, rate based on availability.
Click here for website (http://www.standardhotels.com/los-angeles/).

We may have one or two more coming.

[Stacey Spears]

When I called the number provided for the Sheraton, they re-directed me to another number: 1-800-325-3535. I was able to book with that number.

[TedRed]

Hello everyone, I'm in Japan this week, just had a chance to check in on here - great to see the activity and excitement as we get closer to our first classes. Really great to have Jeff responding and posting info (not sure where he finds the time with all the logistics that have to be tended to for REDucation - perhaps he sleeps while he is scuba diving :-)

The Studio in Downtown LA is going to be a great venue for the classes - it's a full service, state of the art facility with lots of room - perfect for the hands on learning.

And my personal recommendation on lodging for those coming from far away - if you want the hip hotel - go for the Standard, if you don't mind the bass thumping from the nightclub while you are sleeping :-)

+ Ted

[Marc A Hutchins]

I'd like to know a rough breakdown of where the attendees are coming from - west coast, east coast, UK, South America, Asia, etc. I just think the dynamics of the first class are of interest.

Also, didn't someone mention 30 peeps per class? Oh, and how many are enrolled in both courses? I'm really not a numbers guy, I just like the facts.

I have enrolled, by the way.

[Stacey Spears]

I enrolled for the full course. Coming from the Seattle area.

[Conrad Hunziker]

I did a shoot once from the club at the top of the Standard. Needless to say that was one of the VERY few times that no one left at wrap.

[Dean Abrigana]

Coming from San Francisco, although originally from Hawai'i. Enrolled in both of the July classes. Thanks for the updates Jeff; Hotel and flight booked.

[Sam Winzar]

I'm coming all the way from Perth, Western Australia (apparently the most isolated major city in the world) and I'm enrolled in both classes.

[Andrew clemson]

I'm flying over from Dubai, although I'm originally from the UK. Enrolled for the full stretch in the July workshop.

[Stephen Lovett]

I'm from Silicon Valley, south of San Francisco.

I'll be there for both sessions as well.

I've included a map of the hotels.

Hope it helps,

Steve

[Steve Johnson]

Hi
I am booked on the November course and I am traveling from the UK. Anyone else going to the courses from the UK know if you need to get a B1 Visa or anything?

Regards
Steve

[Brian Paris]

I am coming over from Doha, Qatar. Full course in July.

-brian paris

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Marc...We're just filling the last couple of seats for July. We capped it at 40 students, the number we think will provide the best balance of personal attention and plenty of gear, while at the same time having enough seats to accommodate demand. The Oct and Nov workshops are also starting to fill.

I second Ted's recommendation on the Standard Hotel. The Rooftop Bar (click here) (http://www.standardhotels.com/los-angeles/restaurants-bars/rooftop-bar/) is an LA classic. Regardless of whether or not you're staying there, it's the downtown place to hang. REDucation's evening home??

Jeff

[Jeff Seckendorf]

One more hotel:

The Holiday Inn
1020 S. Figueroa St.
Los Angeles, CA 90015
213-748-1291
Rate: $109 plus tax, using REDucation when making reservations. The cut off date for the rate is July 3rd.
Click here for the website (http://www.holidayinn.com/h/d/hi/1/en/hotel/laxcc?rpb=hotel&crUrl=/h/d/hi/1/en/hotelsearchresults).

Jeff

[Marc A Hutchins]

Thanks, Jeff, and one of those seats should be mine - I just received payment confirmation.

BTW - Coming from Blue Ridge, Virginia for the whole week.

[Raphael Varandas]

Hey Jeff, do you know about the next season? Is there any place?
Thanks

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Hi Raphael,

Yes, there are still seats available in Oct, Nov, and Dec.

Best,

Jeff

[Mike Thorn]

I'm tentatively planning on attending the Nov or Dec classes, full week.

[JosephArthur]

A few of us are going to attend . I am going to have Silverado get my tickets/reservations for me.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Here's an update on July REDucation enrollment:

RED Tech for July is FULL.
RED Post for July has five seats available.

We are taking reservations for October, November, and December. Click here for the registration link.
(http://reducation.net/registration.html)
If you still want a July seat, you can sign up for a later workshop and let us know, we will contact you if a July seat opens. There is no formal wait-list.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

Jeff

[Dean Abrigana]

Hey Jeff, would you have any idea what the typical start and finishing times will be daily?

Thanks,

Dean

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Hi Dean,

We're still getting that all dialed in, probably something like 8:30am coffee, 9:00am start, finishing around 7:00pm. But, as always, subject to change.

Jeff

[Dean Abrigana]

Thanks Jeff; Hope to get a lot out of both classes in July.

Dean

[JosephArthur]

Here's an update on July REDucation enrollment:

RED Tech for July is FULL.
RED Post for July has five seats available.

We are taking reservations for October, November, and December. Click here for the registration link.
(http://reducation.net/registration.html)
If you still want a July seat, you can sign up for a later workshop and let us know, we will contact you if a July seat opens. There is no formal wait-list.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

Jeff

Yeah I just got off chat with Robin and the phone with Kelly. I am paid and registered for the community day on the 23rd. I have a Tribal Film School I am doing at the same time and a Tribal Film Night/Festival on July the 25/26th . So maybe next time. Cause the kids are excited about the RED camera and they want to get their own, I personally have ordered mine from Silverado Systems. - Now I am just waiting for it to come in.

[BJ-]

This is a test

[Jeff Seckendorf]

REDucation Community Day Details - July 23, 2009

Community Day is coming together nicely. This is the day between RED Tech and RED Post. The morning is for REDucation students, then at 1:00pm the doors open to the public.

Schedule and registration details are here:
http://connect.createasphere.com/event/REDucation

There will be vendors set up with RED-specific gear and technology, and presentations throughout the afternoon. Presentations will be in the Beaudry Theater at Los Angeles Center Studios, and the vendor tables will be set up in the open space upstairs from the theater.

So come see the latest gear, spend some time with the people who keep the RED community moving, meet some of the REDucation instructors and, of course, eat.

$20 in advance, $30 at the door, includes lunch.

http://connect.createasphere.com/event/REDucation

See you there!

Jeff

[JosephArthur]

REDucation Community Day Details - July 23, 2009

Community Day is coming together nicely. This is the day between RED Tech and RED Post. The morning is for REDucation students, then at 1:00pm the doors open to the public.

Schedule and registration details are here:
http://connect.createasphere.com/event/REDucation

There will be vendors set up with RED-specific gear and technology, and presentations throughout the afternoon. Presentations will be in the Beaudry Theater at Los Angeles Center Studios, and the vendor tables will be set up in the open space upstairs from the theater.

So come see the latest gear, spend some time with the people who keep the RED community moving, meet some of the REDucation instructors and, of course, eat.

$20 in advance, $30 at the door, includes lunch.

http://connect.createasphere.com/event/REDucation

See you there!

Jeff


Looking forward to it Jeff !! We wish we could have a REDucation just for our tribal kids.. or any advanced kids dealing with the RED and the Workflow with RED format (and related technologies). Dealing with kids the language is different and comprehension - attention span is abit different at times. Silverado is providing this overview to a number of or kids. And it would be great to get more kids/youth involved.

Looking forward to meeting you all there from CreateSphere / HP Expo.

.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

JULY REDUCATION CLASS IS SOLD OUT.

JULY COMMUNITY DAY REGISTRATION IS OPEN.

All seats for the July RED Tech and July RED Post are filled. There is no formal wait list, but if you would like a shot at July, you can register for a later class and let us know...if a seat opens we'll call you.

Click here for the link to register (http://reducation.net/registration.html) for Oct, Nov, and Dec REDucation.

Click here to register for July Community Day (http://connect.createasphere.com/event/REDucation) - open to the public July 23, 1pm to 8pm, $20 includes lunch ($30 at the door).

Jeff

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Everything changes.

We now have one opening for RED Post in July. Tech is still sold out.

Jeff

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Sold. Both July RED Tech and RED Post are now full.

Community Day Registration is now open. Click here to register. (http://connect.createasphere.com/event/REDucation)

[Andrew clemson]

Just finished booking flights and hotels, looking forward to the course. Anyone else staying at the marriot and fancy carpooling?

[Brendan Johnson]

Has anyone received payment confirmation for the October, November or December courses yet?

[Scott Webster]

Jeff, Looking forward, will you have course dates that will tie in with NAB? (week either side) Makes it a viable option for international RedUsers.

[Shaun Au]

I've signed up July full course. Flying from the SF Bay Area and will stay at downtown Sheraton. I'll land in LA on Sunday night, the 19th. Anyone staying in Sheraton willing to connect and carpool? If not, I'll just walk over to LACS since it's only a little over 1 mile from Sheraton.

[Stacey Spears]

I am staying at the Sheraton. I do have a rental car, but I was considering walking as well. I fly down from Seattle Sunday morning.

[Dean Abrigana]

Also coming from SF and staying at the Sheraton but I'll be walking; Been here in the city two years now and have gotten by fine walking and public transportation.

[Stephen Lovett]

Hi,

Dean, Roubaix,

I too am coming from the Bay area, and staying at the Sheraton.

Like Dean my plan is to walk over, it's just not that far. If that turns out to be untenable for some reason, I could drive over and would be happy to provide transportation for others if I do.

all the best,

Steve

[Stephen Lovett]

Hi Stacy,

You can come too if you bring me a ristretto from Roastaria Vivace. :)

(For more than I decade I commuted to Seattle just about every week, miss the people, miss the coffee, the weather... not so much.)

Steve

[Dean Abrigana]

Hey, thanks Steve; Certainly if it's raining I'd gladly take you up on your offer. Hope to see everyone next week.

[M Most]

Hey, thanks Steve; Certainly if it's raining I'd gladly take you up on your offer.

You must be from either the Pacific Northwest or the East Coast. There is no rain in Southern California during this time of year. In fact, it doesn't rain any time from about May through October or November.

[Dean Abrigana]

Ah, well it's been almost 12 years since the last time I've been in L.A., and can't remember it ever raining during my visits.

[Alan Rosenfeld]

You must be from either the Pacific Northwest or the East Coast. There is no rain in Southern California during this time of year. In fact, it doesn't rain any time from about May through October or November.


But when it does, especially with a quick shower, and you're on the freeway and the oil deposited on the road rises on top of the water its like driving on ice...

[Justin Harrison]

we dont really have a rainy season in LA. what we have instead is fire, flood, riot and earthquake season!

[Sam Winzar]

I'm coming from Australia and will also be staying at the Sheraton. If anyone feels like catching up for a drink on Sunday night let me know.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

And in other news, one slot just opened in RED Post. Anyone interested? Starts next Friday.

Jeff

[Jeff Seckendorf]

The Steves prep the laptops for REDucation July 09. See attached photo.

Jeff

[Stacey Spears]

Should we still bring our own laptops?

[Steve Freebairn]

I would bring a laptop for note taking if you have one available. If I'm wrong Jeff, Ted, or Michael will let you know. One thing to note, the wifi is slow. That won't matter that much, You won't want to waste anytime surfing though with how many awesome things that are planned for the week.


I'm looking forward to meeting everyone! See ya on Monday.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

A few stills from REDucation day 1.

[Andrew Benz]

There's my guys in picture 4... I know Matt and Ted are having a great time. I am really happy for them.

[Stephen Lovett]

For those of you playing along at home...

Things are going quite well for the first attempt at something like this.

Students from all over the world, a red candy store load of equipment, and good practical learning.

Other than some occasionally wonky sound problems things have gone remarkably smoothly IMHO.

Steve

[Von Thomas]

Well, this was a very informative day. REDucation hosted students from all over the world. The class size at REDucation is 40, and students came from India, London, Dubai, Italy, Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan, and all over the US.

It was a day filled with presentations (both visual and verbal), lectures, Q and A, hands on RED, and shooting assignments.

Ted Schilowitz (RED Digital Cinema) and Michael Cioni (formally with Plaster City) are the main teachers, with Mauricio Gutierrez, Casey Green, Steve Freebairn and myself (Von Thomas) as teaching assistants. The event hosted by HD Expo Creatasphere, and produced by Jeff Seckendorf, is held at the Los Angeles Center Studios, in Downtown LA.

I have to say, collectively we have a awesome crew, the skill level, the first hand knowledge and experience, the willingness to share, makes this learning event, above and beyond a benchmark for our new digital cinema learning frontier.

You may be able to get a picture with RED, but with training like this, your vision as a story teller, will literally leap off the screen.

Oh, by the way that's me in the third picture above.

Von

[Luca Immesi]

Well, this was a very informative day. REDucation hosted students from all over the world. The class size at REDucation is 40, and students came from India, London, Dubai, Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan, and all over the US.

And one from Italy! :biggrin:

[Von Thomas]

Sorry, I'll update.

Von

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Few more stills from day 1.

Jeff

[Stacey Spears]

There is a rear projection setup from IGI that is using a Sony 4k. It is being driven by a DVS, so its real-time 4k playback.

[Von Thomas]

Day two of the RED Tech segment of REDucation, , and the students were presented with myriad of tools for the tech. From monitors, ingestion software, tech cart configurations, RED Tech and DP/AC relationships, color correction and much more.

The assignments carried out by the students on Monday, were viewed and discussed today. The assignments varied, covering just about every possible shooting scenario, under varying conditions. For me this was truly enlightening. This is world class film (I mean RED Digital) school. This program is structured so everyone learns, no man left behind.

Some of the tools discussed today were Sony CineSlate, iSlate (http://www.apptism.com/apps/islate), FilmSlate (http://www.apptism.com/apps/filmslate), monitors like the Dell S2209W (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7438) the prefect low priced monitor that also gives you menu display via HDML.

The day ran a full 10 hours, and no one wanted to leave, the energy is high, and the staff very willing to answer questions to the end.

Being a technology geek, I love the gear, so many REDs, and the Sony 4K (http://gizmodo.com/5051490/sony-brings-their-114000-4k-projector-out-from-hiding) Projector, along with DVS (http://www.dvs.de/news/press/press-single-news/back_pid/110/article/dvs-at-ise-4k-3d-and-dci.html) Real-Time 4K Playback with full debayer, wow.

Von

[Raphael Varandas]

very nice gguuys... see ya on october

[BigLu]

Anybody else have any other updates?
photos or anything at all?

[Andrew clemson]

Ive got a few pics of the different camera setups and so on. Ill put them up later after day 3.

[Andrew clemson]

Out of interest, is there any way to get a copy of any of the other frames from the group video casey shot with the RED? Im kind of only half in the photo and would like to have one i can put up in the office.

[Michael Cioni]

RED Tech has been a wonderful experience for just about everyone involved from the education side. I cannot thank the participants enough for their enthusiasm, professionalism, great questions, and, of course, their continued patience. There has been a tremendous amount of organic exploration of the world of RED, both coming from the TAs as well as the students. I couldn't be more thrilled to work with so many talented and energetic people, especially when they teach me as much as I (hopefully) teach them.

When the REDucation Founders Team began building the curriculum, Ted kept stressing how much we wanted to have hands-on time with the RED camera. Though it was a challenge to secure, build and maintain 10 full RED packages, the founding members, sponsors, producers and HDExpo staff have empowered students with access to over $450,000 worth of RED camera gear, not to mention nearly $400,000 worth of ancillary computer and projection equipment in our RED-Center. I took my iPhone and did short walk-through during one of our RED Labs so you can get a sense of the atmosphere. Here's the link to the iPhone ".mov"
http://red.cachefly.net/REDU1.MOV


Now that we're half-way through the REDucation course curriculum, I can't wait to get into the post side of RED. But for now, RED Tech #001 is complete. Here is our talented group, recovering from 30 hours of redaches.

best,
michael

[Von Thomas]

Another group shoot. REDucation Graduation Class #1, July 2009

[Andrew clemson]

Thanks Von, Im actually in that one! Jeff and I are both clipped from the 1st one. Any chance you could email me a Hi Res one, so I can Print it?

[Luca Immesi]

Another group shoot. REDucation Graduation Class #1, July 2009
Very cool, Sergio Leone style!

[Steve Sherrick]

Congrats to everyone involved! Looks like a huge success!

[Chris Parker]

that looks like a kick-ass way to spend the week.

[Casey Green]

Hi everyone,

REDucation has already been an incredible event, and we're only half way through! I'm very grateful to be a part of such a great team of professionals, both faculty and students alike. With a great assortment of people from all over the world with different backgrounds, businesses, and production styles, we are all learning a tremendous amount from each other!

I've been taking many photos throughout the week - here are a few to start off with. I'll try and post more as soon as I get some spare time. Heheheh!

Thanks to everyone involved, from Ted and Michael, Jeff and the HD Expo team, the TA team, L.A. Center Studios, the students, and all of the others helping with all aspects of the training and community day!

OK, gotta run...

[Casey Green]

Here are some more...

[Casey Green]

another batch...

[Michael.B]

Congrats everybody on putting together a very impressive community day. FotoKem is glad to be part of the founding team of REDucation.

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Greetings from REDucation.

We just opened the box containing our RED Rocket. Here are Von and Steve F. in a couple of stills. Hello 4k.

Jeff

[Dennis Yeung]

Render out DPX faster then real time !!!!!! and the rocketcine-X is so cool......

[Andrew clemson]

A couple of pictures of the rocket interface

[Casey Green]

Greetings from REDucation.

We just opened the box containing our RED Rocket™. Here are Von and Steve F. in a couple of stills. Hello 4k.

Jeff

Awesome guys. See ya tomorrow!

[Luca Immesi]

Quick and dirty stills from the first REDucation course.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/esperimentocinema/sets/72157621708504349/

[Jonas Rejman]

Quick and dirty stills from the first REDucation course.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/esperimentocinema/sets/72157621708504349/

Nice !!!!

[Andrew clemson]

Is anyone else still drunk after last night? gotta love those long island ice teas.

[John Bock]

I'm really sorry/glad I missed it. The flu did a number on my head the last few days.
Congrats to everyone who completed the REDucation course. We is edumacated!
Now lets shoot!!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Really great to see such success of the first even, congrats to every one, and thanks for sharing the pics.

ciao

[Casey Green]

Quick and dirty stills from the first REDucation course.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/esperimentocinema/sets/72157621708504349/

Thanks for the Stills, Luca.

Great meeting and working with you!!!

You're a star now, don't you foget it! Heheheh :auto:

[Luca Immesi]

My nom de plume is Arturo! :driving:

[Jack Mosor]

Hey Guys, just got back to Toronto with Information Overload :)

4K all the way Reducation Brainers :) Great Times,
Thanks to all the crew and members.

Keep in touch

Jack Mosor

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Here comes REDucation s/n 002. October 12 to 18 in Los Angeles. Three days of RED Tech, Community Day, then three days of RED Post.

Sign up here: http://reducation.net/registration.html

Any questions? Let me know at info@reducation.net.

Jeff

[TedRed]

Hello Everyone - Next REDucation is shaping up now - the tech team is starting to work on prepping 9 or more full camera packages for the course, 4k projection, REDrocket 4k playback, a boat load of Apple gear for the on set workflow and post production workflow, etc.

We are working on making the class even more hands on than the first time we taught it, and more focused on small working teams of students to drive real world production and post experiences.

The classes are starting to fill up now, with students from all over the world, just like last time, so it should be an interesting experience once again. There are still some slots open for production and post If you are interested in signing up, I'd suggest you do so before the end of Sept. before it fills up.

I will make the recommendation that if you have the time to dedicate a week to this and take both the production and post sides of the class, back to back, that is where we are seeing maximum value - since production and post with the RED are so intertwined.

Best.

+ Ted

[Tony Lorentzen]

Hey Ted. Any plans on getting REDucation to Europe?

[TedRed]

Hi Tony,

I think I might have put some info on this in the thread somewhere, but it's probably easier to tell you the plan again then to try and find the post...

So the plan right now is to run the 4 classes in LA (we are a few weeks away from the 2nd class) and then take the show on the road. Once we have the classes finely tuned so that other staff can teach remotely, we will likely do an east coast USA version and a Europe and Asia version, then we can look at more even cities based on the demand.

I'm also investigating super high end video conferencing technology, so that people all over the world can attend the classes we do in LA remotely, with a staff member in those countries to do the direct hands on support... an interesting concept we are exploring. probably too early to try it for the Oct. class, but maybe for the Nov. or Dec. class.

+ Ted

[TedRed]

REDucation bonus for the next class...

I had a meeting with my friend Angus from Rock Paper Scissors today, and he agreed to come and talk in the next class in October about his post workflows on RED jobs.

Angus is one of the top guys in the world at Data-centric post production at the highest levels - he works with the some super A-list Directors and the top Ad Agencies creating some amazing work, including the Fincher directed Nike football spot that is running now, (and last years Fincher Nike football spot as well) so it will be a real treat to have him talk about his working methods and show examples of his work.

if you want to see the level of work that Angus and his crew do:

http://www.rockpaperscissors.com/

Things are shaping up nicely for this REDucation :-)

+ Ted

[Luca Immesi]

I'm also investigating super high end video conferencing technology, so that people all over the world can attend the classes we do in LA remotely, with a staff member in those countries to do the direct hands on support... an interesting concept we are exploring. probably too early to try it for the Oct. class, but maybe for the Nov. or Dec. class.

+ Ted
Hi Ted, good to hear you. This sounds really interesting. It would be nice also to have the possibility to download some seminar with the top guys for the reducation 001 members.

[Andrew clemson]

Yeah, any further BTS vids like the Prius one we saw would be a great download to make available to alumni.

[TedRed]

Hi Luca and Andrew,

That's a good idea - we should shoot the guest speakers for each REDucation class, and make them available for the students of previous classes online as the full speeches, part of the continuing education, and a do cut down short version for public viewing.

+ Ted

[Andrew clemson]

Hi Luca and Andrew,

That's a good idea - we should shoot the guest speakers for each REDucation class, and make them available for the students of previous classes online as the full speeches, part of the continuing education, and a do cut down short version for public viewing.

+ Ted

Sounds great. If you have someone shooting parts of the class, like Peter Holland was doing at #001, it could be particularly useful to get any Epic demonstrations (Ie, assembly tips, back focusing tricks etc) made available aswell.

Epic/scarlet cliff notes that get worked into #'s 002 and up would no doubt be invaluable too.

Hope thats not too cheeky to ask, I realise how much work goes into organising the class as it is!

cheers, and I hope #002 is as much fun as #001 was!

Andrew

[Steve Gibby]

Just curious:
At these REDucation seminars, are the alternative RED camera setups and field production techniques for hybrid EFP/cine production, as they're used in non-hardlined EFP and EFP, being taught? If so, who is teaching them, and what are their qualifications? If not being taught...why not?

When you get outside of L.A. there's a very significant portion of non-narrative RED production done with small, mobile crews, using streamlined camera setups, 35mm stills lenses, eye focusing the camera, no matte boxes (using screw-on filters) and no follow focus units (hand racking focus). The scalability and broad utility of Epic and Scarlet (especially the DSMC models) will exponentially increase the percentage of this hybrid EFP/cine production.

I think RED should think outside the (matte) box and teach all potential styles of using their cameras. Most straight cine-style background guys won't have the foggiest idea of how to teach hybrid style camera setups and production. The L.A. narrative cine-style production scenario is fine for L.A. - but there's a broad diversity of alternate RED equipment setups and field techniques in use worldwide. RED has been, and is now, building convergence cameras with the broad utility to be setup and used in a wide array of styles, genres, and industries. IMO only teaching on-set, narrative cine camera setups and techniques would be falling way short of the mark for the needs of a huge portion of potential RED camera owners and users of RED One - and certainly of Epic and Scarlet.

Food for thought...

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Gibby,

As DSMC will be also used by newspaper photographers I believe ENG should also be included.

Stephen


Just curious:
At these REDucation seminars, are camera setups and field production techniques for hybrid EFP/cine production, as they are used in non-hardlined EFP and EFP, being taught? If so, who is teaching them, and what are their qualifications? If not...why not?

When you get outside of L.A. there's a very significant portion of RED production done with small, mobile TV crews, using streamlined camera setups, 35mm stills lenses, eye focusing the camera, no matte boxes (using screw-on filters) and follow focus units (hand racking focus). The scalability and broad utility of Epic and Scarlet (especially the DSMC models) will exponentially increase the percentage of hybrid EFP/cine production. I think RED should think outside the (matte) box and teach all styles of using their cameras. Most straight cine-style background guys won't have the foggiest idea of how to teach hybrid style production.

Food for thought...

[Steve Gibby]

Hi Gibby,

As DSMC will be also used by newspaper photographers I believe ENG should also be included.

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

I didn't ask about ENG - Electronic News Gathering. ENG hasn't been a significant part of RED One production for obvious reasons - the need for RAW to RGB rendering, quick turnarounds, tight deadlines, etc. I asked about hybrid EFP/cine style production. RED One has been used widely in Electronic Field Production (EFP), specifically non-hardlined EFP, and quite often that involves the hybrid style camera setups and usage techniques I described. Some examples of genres using hybrid RED setups are: adventure travel, alternative sports, some music productions, wildlife, nature, some aerials, some underwater, many documentaries, stock footage, and many more genres.

If the option for selectable 1080p RGB recording makes it into the final specifications for the DSMC cameras, and its in a codec that can be edited quickly in ENG editing systems, thus enabling quick turnaround ENG production, then by all means combination news photographers/motion shooters could put those DSMC cameras to good use.

[Raul Gonzo]

Hi Luca and Andrew,

That's a good idea - we should shoot the guest speakers for each REDucation class, and make them available for the students of previous classes online as the full speeches, part of the continuing education, and a do cut down short version for public viewing.

+ Ted

I love this idea.

[Luca Immesi]

Hi Luca and Andrew,

That's a good idea - we should shoot the guest speakers for each REDucation class, and make them available for the students of previous classes online as the full speeches, part of the continuing education, and a do cut down short version for public viewing.

+ Ted
Great. :thumbup1:

[Sam Winzar]

Hi Stephen,

I didn't ask about ENG - Electronic News Gathering. ENG hasn't been a significant part of RED One production for obvious reasons - the need for RAW to RGB rendering, quick turnarounds, tight deadlines, etc. I asked about hybrid EFP/cine style production. RED One has been used widely in Electronic Field Production (EFP), specifically non-hardlined EFP, and quite often that involves the hybrid style camera setups and usage techniques I described. Some examples of genres using hybrid RED setups are: adventure travel, alternative sports, some music productions, wildlife, nature, some aerials, some underwater, many documentaries, stock footage, and many more genres.

If the option for selectable 1080p RGB recording makes it into the final specifications for the DSMC cameras, and its in a codec that can be edited quickly in ENG editing systems, thus enabling quick turnaround ENG production, then by all means combination news photographers/motion shooters could put those DSMC cameras to good use.

That was my big suggestion at the end of REDucation. Not specifically EFP style REDs but a greater variety in the types of camera configurations that we get to see. That said, I ended up buying a lot of equipment after playing with it at REDucation such as the ET EVF Mount (listen to what everyone's saying, it's that good and worth the money!) and the Switronix dual battery mount (no powering down to swap batteries!).

Best of luck with #002. I must say I'm jealous as I'd love to do it all over again. Even just hanging out with large group of REDheads was a blast in itself.

[Steve Gibby]

That was my big suggestion at the end of REDucation. Not specifically EFP style REDs but a greater variety in the types of camera configurations that we get to see. That said, I ended up buying a lot of equipment after playing with it at REDucation such as the ET EVF Mount (listen to what everyone's saying, it's that good and worth the money!) and the Switronix dual battery mount (no powering down to swap batteries!).

Best of luck with #002. I must say I'm jealous as I'd love to do it all over again. Even just hanging out with large group of REDheads was a blast in itself.

Rather than just straight EFP-style setups (B4 adaptor & lenses), hybrid style usually involves lightweight (thus very mobile) camera setups, 35mm stills lenses (without MB or FF), eye focusing the camera, exposing quickly using zebras and histogram, and camera techniques that are a blend of EFP-style and cine-style. The mistaken notions that people who do hybrid style with RED are forced to by lack of "real budgets", aren't doing "top-level" production work, and aren't getting "top-notch" footage, are just that - mistaken notions - invariably fostered by those who've never done hybrid style production. RED builds modular, flexible, multi-style capable cameras - thus IMO a wide variety of camera setups and shooting styles should be taught at REDucation. Why build a multi-style capable camera system - then only teach cine-style camera setups and shooting techniques? RED just got the REDucation curriculum organized, so hopefully sometime soon they will expand it to also cover hybrid and EFP styles of camera setups and shooting techniques.

I hear you on RED camera accessories. For years now I've been a factory pilot for multiple accessory companies - ET, View Factor, and many others. I field tested the ET EVF mount you mentioned for several months before it was released to the public - along with about every other ET accessory of the last three years. My first RED camera is 0008, not 0002. My 2nd and 3rd RED cameras are also extremely early models. If you think about it, all of us very early RED camera adopters were also essentially "beta testers" of RED One - and happily so! If you ask me, Mark Pederson, Blair Paulsen, or any of the other real early adopters of RED One, if we have any regrets about being beta testers of the cameras, basically everyone was stoked to step up and be a pioneer along with RED Team. We were just fortunate to be in the right place at the right time - and to have made a good choice to make the leap along with RED Team.

Yes, there is definitely a brotherhood when you hang out with other "REDheads". You're in there now. That brotherhood is about to expand exponentially with the pending release of the new Epic and Scarlet models. But RED One will always be remembered fondly as RED's launching pad.

[Meryem Ersoz]

IMO a wide variety of camera setups and shooting styles should be taught at REDucation. Why build a multi-style capable camera system - then only teach cine-style camera setups and shooting techniques? RED just got the REDucation curriculum organized, so hopefully sometime soon they will expand it to also cover hybrid and EFP styles of camera setups and shooting techniques.



an excellent point! Especially with smaller form factor cameras on the horizon, this would be an excellent addition.

I also think that doc shooters are like snowflakes - no two systems or methods seem to be totally alike - so doing something like bringing in two or three expert shooters to do a "show and tell" -- rather than a top-down teaching approach -- could be very interesting.

I ran an outdoor producers' workshop for the Boulder Adventure Film Festival these past two years -- shooters and producers talking with other shooters and producers, 3 panelists plus a rich range of experience in the audience -- and it was great to get new ideas for using gear (plus a host of other techniques, interviewing, post-tips, DIY options, etc.) in the field from other people doing interesting work. It would be cool to see a RED-specific offering like this...

[Steve Gibby]

Exactly Meryem...I agree 100%. I think your approach you described for the Boulder Adventure Film Festival is spot on.

Different genres of production with RED One necessarily call for a variety of lenses, accessories, and shooting techniques. Wise production teams using RED One simply assess what would be the very most logical and cost-effective shooting style, lenses, accessories, and techniques for each production (or portion thereof) - and proceed accordingly.

Traditional cine-style shooters often times have a hard time wrapping their heads around RED's flexibility and broad utility - because they approach the camera from the standpoint of their traditional lens/accessory/techniques paradigm. But it is a big production world out here - with a myriad of other needs. RED obviously gets that - they conceived of and built probably the most utilitarian-friendly pro camera system ever built - and Epic and Scarlet are projected to even further this new broad-utility paradigm.

It follows that everyone writing a book about using RED, making "How to" videos about using RED, and especially RED themselves, should be teaching all possible styles, setups, and techniques for using RED cameras. So far thats not happening...and I think entities teaching RED setups and usage need to re-evaluate their offerings, and expand them to also address the needs and solutions of the non-cine portion of the motion media industry, who are using RED cameras extensively - namely the hybrid and EFP production industries.

[Chris Parker]

i couldn't agree more steve......;)

[Raphael Varandas]

Very nice Steve... 100% agreed !!

Thanks Bro

[Tai Wah Lim]

Steve, hope all is well with you. Other than special people with your skill and passion and finding a niche for getting the best out for your line of work, I find it hard to convince ENG type users to switch to Red for shooting say normal documentary works.

I find it a lot easier to change the huge amount of people shooting with HDcam right now for budget feature film projects - ie from my experience in Asia, to switch to the Red Cameras. When we say budget in Asia - we are talking micro budget here. Like Ted said in one of his video, most of them shoot like video. After staying around for the first couple of shoots and showing them the right way and color correcting the images, they are hooked - and still within budget ... maybe slightly more but getting a result that equal shooting with film.

For those shooting TV Commercials and MTV with film, the need to change is obvious.

Lim

[Steve Gibby]

Thank you for the kind words Chris and Raphael...

Tai Wah Lim,
All is well here and hopefully with you also. ENG type users, specifically news shooters, have been slow to adopt RED One (except for certain b-roll), mostly because of their tight time deadlines on their type of work.

Its the non-hardilined EFP shooters (like myself) who have embraced RED One widely. I'm not talking about people who want/need to shoot with B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms in 2k, but rather those who edit their programs in post (longer turnarounds), and want/need to shoot in 3k and 4k (usually Quad HD). These camera setups are hybrid, lightweight, and mobile, using 35mm stills lenses, no matte boxes or follow focus units, eye focusing the camera, and setting exposure quickly using zebras and histogram.

Examples of television genres shot with RED One with hybrid rigs using non-hardlined EFP camera techniques are (but not limited to): alternative sports, adventure travel, tourism, wildlife, documentaries of various genres, cultural programs, nature, mobile stock footage, mobile 2nd unit, basically a wide range of non-narrative television programs.

Yes, narrative production, whether it be for television or features, is usually shot with cine style rigs using cine style techniques. But that's only one portion of the motion media industry.

With Epic and Scarlet just around the corner, and their proposed ability (if it stays in their final specifications) to feature a choice of RAW or RGB recording, small size, and the ability to accessorize and lens the cameras for whatever style of production you want/need to do, it makes sense to me to teach all of those alternate camera setups and shooting techniques - not just cine-style narrative setups and techniques.

I did the very first magazine published interview with Jim Jannard about the RED One camera (interview January 2006, published in Studio Monthly, 4/06 issue), in which I specifically asked Jim about the diverse setup and operational options for RED One - cine, EFP, hybrid, etc. - and he affirmed that was the intention of the R1 design. In fact, from the very beginning RED has had verbiage on their web site about alternately outfitting R1 for EFP style work, and there has been a "EFP/ENG for RED" forum here on RED User from very early on. There's a lot of R1 owners and users out here who have been doing exactly that over the 2+ years R1 has been in field use - EFP and hybrid setups and techniques - when their projects call for it as the best choice.

There's a reason a B4 lens option, 35mm stills lens option, genlock, zebras, 4 channels audio, pre-record function, RS232/12v bus, and many other EFP and hybrid style camera features are in RED One - so that those who choose to do EFP and hybrid production can accessorize their cameras that way if they - and many do. You simply don't see those features and capability on camera systems that were just meant for straight cine style work. Epic and Scarlet will be even more hybrid and EFP friendly than RED One has been.

All of the above said, it makes infinitely logical sense for RED to be also teaching hybrid and EFP camera setups and techniques in their REDucation seminars - and not just cine style setups and techniques.

Its long overdue for hybrid and EFP production with RED One to cease being overlooked and ignored by "How to Use RED One" seminars, DVDs, and books - and take their rightful place among the viable setups and techniques taught for RED One usage.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Gibby,

I think you will be happy with our "Hybrid module" in our upcoming DVD.. But something tells me you know that already!

:)

Jay

[Steve Gibby]

Yup...:thumbup:

[Stephen Williams]

For those shooting TV Commercials and MTV with film, the need to change is obvious.

Lim

Hi Lim,

I shoot mainly Commercials, Last week using a 5DMK II, Thursday & 5 other days in October confirmed on film, One day possibly on RED (production co wants) but agency wants 35mm, very little in it cost wise. RED is just a tool.

Stephen

[Steve Gibby]

RED is just a tool.

Hi Stephen,

You seem to have drawn a very definitive conclusion on RED One - that its "just a tool". I'm curious what you're basing that opinion on. If I'm not mistaken you don't own a RED One camera and never have. Is that correct? I'm curious, since you have such a direct opinion on RED One, and so this forum can visualize if your conclusion is a directly RED-experienced opinion, what is the exact extent of your actual hands-on experience using a RED One camera? For how many projects, what genres, and how many actual shooting days?

There are many here, myself included, who have owned RED One cameras for a long period of time (for me its three RED cameras for over two years now), have used them extensively in a broad range of productions, styles and genres, have really pushed the RED camera hard to see what it can do, have deep experience using many other camera systems, and view RED One not as "just a tool", but rather as a very versatile, scalable, and adaptable Swiss Army Knife of a tool - a very different view of RED One than you have expressed.

If you're going to state an opinion like that about RED One, then please share with this forum how you arrived at that opinion - including the exact amount of your actual RED One usage.

Steve

[Tai Wah Lim]

Hi Lim,

I shoot mainly Commercials, Last week using a 5DMK II, Thursday & 5 other days in October confirmed on film, One day possibly on RED (production co wants) but agency wants 35mm, very little in it cost wise. RED is just a tool.

Stephen

Stephen, we do have our fair share of resistance when we started. Once we got the Directors on board, the agency went along.

As Gibby said, Red is not just a tool. To me, Red is a revolution in Film making.

Gibby, I am also interested to see what Jay comes up with his hybrid shooting style.

Lim

[Steve Gibby]

Gibby, I am also interested to see what Jay comes up with his hybrid shooting style.

As Jay mentioned, I already know what he will have in his new Hybrid for RED One module for his RED 101 DVD. I recently spent three days with Jay working on that module, being shot while I demonstrated the equipment setups and techniques I use, and providing multiple footage samples of my hybrid RED work.

I believe that people who use RED One will greatly benefit from all the modules in Jay's RED 101 DVD, including this Hybrid module. Check it out when you get a chance...

I see that Jay has started a new thread about his new Hybrid RED module. Here's a link to a new thread Jay started about the Hybrid Module in his soon to be released RED 101 DVD:
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=35643

[Jeff Seckendorf]

Okay, let's see if we can get this thread back on track.

REDucation #002 starts in a week, there are a few slots still available. Lot's to be learned...we'll be using the RED Rocket going into IGI and Creative Bridge's 4k Power Window for real time playback of the 4k material we shoot in class, lenses from RED, Zeiss, Angenieux and Fujinon, gear from Element Technica, Redrock Micro, O'Connor, and many others, Ted, Michael Cioni, and Steve Freebairn teaching, Von Thomas assisting, great food, an amazing location.

Let me know if you have questions, register at www.reducation.net.

Jeff

[Andrew clemson]

I just wish I had the time and money to go again!

[Brendan Johnson]

The November course has been cancelled in case you haven't heard - bummer.