RED Rocket

[Jannard]

RED Rocket.

R3D Decode, debayer and playback high quality REALTIME 4k at 30fps (or 5K at 25fps).

Will accelerate FCP, Premiere, After Effects, RED Alert!, REDCINE, REDrushes or any application using the REDCODE SDK.

PCI-Express, Output interfaces will include Quad-DVI and Quad-HD-SDI. Works with Mac, PC and Linux.

Under $5k.

[dingos8mybaby]

Schweet...

(Not the best reply, I know, but it's all I can muster at 3am...)

[jonnycom]

Nice! and When?

[A. Clint Litton]

Woot!

[Brian Broz]

Sold!

[Alex.Mitchell]

Awesome! Any way to hook it up to a laptop?

[Frank Cueto]

AWESOME!

Will this work with Lusters, smokes, avids and baselights as well?

Great news nonethe less.


-Frank Cueto

[Eric Maran]

Perfect. Count me in.

[Tom Lowe]

5K at 24p..... perfect!

[Kevin Wild]

Finally some attention to the post production! I love it. This is brilliantly simple and absolutely worth the money.

[michael beck]

Damn! Now I have to buy something else!!! Oh well.. it sounds awesome!!

[Richardvclark]

Bravo

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Yihaaa! Awesome...

[Evin Grant]

Nice! This is what we've been waiting for:party:

[Sergio Perez]

Fantastic, amazing, a true revolution! Now all those redcode numbers make sense. With this boost, it is the end of the Post hassle for redcode. Does it work for all Macpro's? I have a 2008 3.1 model?

[LeeArcher1]

excellent, just what we need for post !!!, thank you very much jim.

Lee.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

HOHOHO...

Let's see how it goes.

But I'm the poor man, gonna do without it.

:)

PS: Do you have a render? Ok it's just a board... But we need renders!

[IAN SUN]

mmmmm

Appetizer?

[Costelloe Michael]

Jim,

Any chance of making that 5k at 25fps? Please?

Mike C

[Tony Lorentzen]

ETA? When's this thing coming out?

[Ziad Oakes]

Sounds great.

I guess the question everyone wants to know. Is when will it be available?

[Sanjin Jukic]

:head_explode: :violent: :beer:

[Jean Déraps]

Great stuff... will output be at 10 bit/channel and include a DisplayPort, Jim?

[Jimmy Shen]

What about Red Ray? How does Red Rocket compare to Red Ray?

[Dan Finlayson]

beautiful:thumbsup:

[Sam Winzar]

Sounds great!

...if you could squeeze out 25fps at 5K your pals in PAL land will surely love it even more.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Game over competition.

[Steve Freebairn]

Sweet! So, 4k 16x9 full quality debayer. That's awesome, this is a game changer, Jim, you just ticked off so many post companies :)

[Roberto Lequeux]

24fps at 5k is all I could ever want (for a long time)

But no Sony Vegas... I know I talk smack but their NLE is so nice to use... may not be popular, or the fastest... but they adopted Red, NATIVE... will this work?

I suppose they had to use the SDK to make their support happen right?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Woohoo... I guessed right! :)

Just what we need.

[B Stanford]

Done, I'm ready to buy. How long?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Game over competition.

Cineform = EOL

[Alex.Mitchell]

Awesome! Any way to hook it up to a laptop?

Never mind. I just realized that this wouldn't be an outboard piece of hardware that interfaced through a card on the PCI-Express bus. Dunno why I imagined a small black and red rocket shaped device sitting next to my screen...

[Häakon]

I'll be posting the RED Pro Prime info with pricing along with an incredible new workflow tool
I think we're missing half the equation... :P

[Russ Lasson]

I don't even know what to ask first! I guess how do I get one is a good place to start.

-Russ

[Kevin Wild]

Can I quit complaining about not having a conform tool? No need to conform if we're working with the 4k files all the way throughout the process. I'm wondering if Color will be integrated and will work with the full 4K rez.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

ETA? When's this thing coming out?

Im' pretty sure it's WID (When it's done).

:rofl:


I think we're missing half the equation... :P

Definitely!

[albert rudnicki]

Cool:)
Will it scale down/decode in real time as well?

[Brook Willard]

Nice. Interested in the date and lane requirements. Will it have hardware scaling for HD-SDI and file-based 1080 and 2k outputs? That'd be nice.

[RivaiC]

So this is a debayer card or we can say :€

RED Debayer Accelaration card !

Thanks for this solution jim, will definitely purchase it.

Regards

[Roberto Lequeux]

So hardware obviously, correct?

Please support Vegas.

[michael beck]

Cool:)
Will it scale down/decode in real time as well?

Yeah, I want to 4k while viewing it @ 1080p :sifone:

[Hans von Sonntag]

Cineform = EOL

CineForm is using Red's SDK. CineForm is just an intelligent codec with colour manipulation abilities using metadata. I don't see an EOL here. On the contrary, full RT debayering to CF RGB444 is excellent news.

Hans

PS: DVS has a hard time now.

[Häakon]

So hardware obviously, correct?
Yes, it's a PCI-E card.

[Brad Webb]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of competitors voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[Yannick Hagman]

er... no news on scarlet?

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

So hardware obviously, correct?

Software card?

That's a whole new concept for me...

:rofl:

[Roberto Lequeux]

Yeah, I want to 4k while viewing it @ 1080p :sifone:

5k while viewing 1080p :thumbsup:


Software card?

That's a whole new concept for me...

:rofl:

shut up I had a few too many waiting :beer:

[Andrea Scaglione]

Jim,

Any chance of making that 5k at 25fps? Please?

Mike C

Agree.

However bravo:thumbsup:

Andrea

[jbeale]

He did say anything that uses the SDK. I highly doubt anyone's reverse-engineered their R3D support at this point, why do something unsupported when the SDK is available.

Is this for generating the final output or for online editing? I guess both, but I wasn't aware of the existence of a 5k display device. If you can get scaled 4k output from 5k input that might be the best approach (or could that even happen in-camera?)

[Fredrik Harreschou]

I have two three letter words to throw out:
DVS.
OEM.

:sifone:

If I am right it shouldn't be so far away...

Fredrik

[Sanjin Jukic]

Pictures, renderings, workflow graphics, please!!! :hurray: :happyhappy: :party:

[albert rudnicki]

I like you, but not your balloons.

[Gareth Gerrard]

Hehe RED Rocket!!!! Under $5k sounds good for all that...

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Picture or renderings please!!!

I'm pretty sure it will look a bit like this:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/images/hd3870-ati-card.jpg

Except the sticker, there will be Milk girls on the sticker.

:sifone:

[Hans von Sonntag]

I have two three letter words to throw out:
DVS.
OEM.

:sifone:

If I am right it shouldn't be so far away...

Fredrik

Interesting guess, Fredrik. The rumor DVS is building a PCI-E board for RT Red debayering has been around for a year now.

Hans

[Scott Webster]

Lenses*cough*Lenses

[Stephen Webb]

Cool.

Can we have a display to watch it on?

[Bob Torrance]

DVS Clipster (with redcode 4K realtime) is about $90,000. Hmmmm...

Bob Torrance

[Hans von Sonntag]

I like you, but not your balloons.

I heartly agree. All this smoking weed and explosions is pretty annoying.

Hans

[Jannard]

Jim,

Any chance of making that 5k at 25fps? Please?

Mike C

Yes to 5k@25fps.

See you guys tomorrow. Big Day.

[albert rudnicki]

Will it support 3K at at higher frame rates?
ECHO :Lenses? please
Been waiting awake for a long time....

[Julio Quintana]

Yes to 5k@25fps.

See you guys tomorrow. Big Day.

No lens info?

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Interesting guess, Fredrik. The rumor DVS is building a PCI-E board for RT Red debayering has been around for a year now.

Hans

Hans, it's not a rumor anymore: http://www.dvs.de/uploads/media/20090414_DVS_NAB_CLIPSTER_RED_e.pdf

BTW, I am smoking a cigar today, not weed...

Fred

[Hans von Sonntag]

DVS Clipster (with redcode 4K realtime) is about $90,000. Hmmmm...

Bob Torrance

Bob, Clipster is a different beast. It can ALSO debayer 4K RT among many other things. Clipster has been around a while, as are DVS's high-end SAN solutions, etc...

Hans

[Roberto Lequeux]

Software card?

That's a whole new concept for me...

:rofl:


RED Rocket.

R3D Decode, debayer and playback high quality REALTIME 4k at 30fps (or 5K at 25fps).

Will accelerate FCP, Premiere, After Effects, RED Alert!, REDCINE, REDrushes or any application using the REDCODE SDK.

PCI-Express, Output interfaces will include Quad-DVI and Quad-HD-SDI. Works with Mac, PC and Linux.

Under $5k.

Where does he use the word "CARD"... :glare:

Could be that Quad-DVI is only supported.. of course it makes sense but I did say OBVIOUSLY...

:angry:

Refill anyone?

[Chris Bell]

Where's the lens info?

[hdnow]

I suspect is a beefed up camera decoder.

cheers,
Bogdan Grigoresco
www.finale.tv

[Liam Hall]

No lens info?

Red store's not showing any new toys...

[Hans von Sonntag]

Hans, it's not a rumor anymore: http://www.dvs.de/uploads/media/20090414_DVS_NAB_CLIPSTER_RED_e.pdf

BTW, I am smoking a cigar today, not weed...

Fred

Thanks for the link!

Have you ever tried a Romeo Julietta Cazadores? My all time favourite.

Hans

[Tony Lorentzen]

I'll be posting the RED Pro Prime info with pricing along with an incredible new workflow tool (don't miss this one) tomorrow night at midnight. The red.com website will be ready for reservations on Wed.

Uhm? No lens information as promised?

[Roberto Lequeux]

Something tells me this card won't play COD5... :(

Soemthing else tells me you'll need two PCIe 16x slots open and a good power supply unit. :)


Thanks for the link!

Have you ever tried a Romeo Julietta Cazadores? My all time favourite.

Hans

I have... two non-aficionado thumbs up.

[Chris Parker]

well. tomorrow went from great to insane. see you all there!

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Cineform = EOL

Not until I can use REDCode as an intermediary format. (I'm not use Cineform NEO right now. But I'm also not using REDCode).

Also I'm seeing some big problems in my computer right now....

GPU takes up two bays....
Castic Raytracing Card is going to take up a PCI bay. ttp://www.caustic.com/
Now this thing will take up a PCI E spot too....

I don't know that it'll all fit....

I don't suppose there is a way to make this work as an external box is there? What about laptops?

[DaveT]

Put a feed on it and you've turned your PC into a Red Camera.

A RedCode web cam!

[Häakon]

Lens info: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29332

[Kwan Khan]

Lens info
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29332

[Simon Valderrama]

wow. Will it be possible for the card to work in conjunction with other cards like Aja IO HD or Kona 3 or will be there conflicts in Final Cut?
This way one could use Aja products for non-RED projects and accelerate at the same time R3Ds using the RED Rocket ...

[Roberto Lequeux]

Not until I can use REDCode as an intermediary format. (I'm not use Cineform NEO right now. But I'm also not using REDCode).

Also I'm seeing some big problems in my computer right now....

GPU takes up two bays....
Castic Raytracing Card is going to take up a PCI bay. ttp://www.caustic.com/
Now this thing will take up a PCI E spot too....

I don't know that it'll all fit....

I don't suppose there is a way to make this work as an external box is there? What about laptops?

Might not need a normal video card... might need a MoBo with three double wide 16x slots + one PCIe for that card

It can work... wonder what the details will be like.. it would be sweet if it doesn't involve t slots just for RRocket, then there will be tons of options to accommodate that

[Peter Mosiman]

also, check it out....

if only i had 19K lying around. =]

http://www.red.com/store

[Liam Hall]

wow. Will it be possible for the card to work in conjunction with other cards like Aja IO HD or Kona 3 or will be there conflicts in Final Cut?
This way one could use Aja products for non-RED projects and accelerate at the same time R3Ds using the RED Rocket ...

Looks to me like it replaces those devices.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

What computer doesn't need a normal video card?

Just because REDCode is accellerated doesn't mean the rest of your OpenGL needs will just dissapear. :D

[Liam Hall]

Red store is open for business:)

[Sanjin Jukic]

I heartly agree. All this smoking weed and explosions is pretty annoying.

Hans

Hans,

OK no more (head) explosions,

also I gave up smoking a long ago.

But a cigar is connected to Jean-Luc Godard

http://auteurs_production.s3.amazonaws.com/cast_member_images/151/Jean_Luc_Godard.png
= :sifone:

[Wesley Scoggins]

I'm pretty sure it will look a bit like this:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6735/redcard.jpg

Except the sticker, there will be Milk girls on the sticker.

:sifone:

Fixed. :)

[DaveT]

Any reason why a RedCode accelerator couldn't be written in Nvidia's Cuda?

[Sven Seynaeve]

Incredibly cool , Mr. Jannard.

Would be even cooler if it would be stackable for the use of 3D.

[Hans von Sonntag]

Hans,

OK no more explosions,

also I gave up smoking a long ago.

But a cigar is connected to Jean-Luc Godard

http://auteurs_production.s3.amazonaws.com/cast_member_images/151/Jean_Luc_Godard.png
= :sifone:

Is this smiley smoking a cigar? No weed involved? Green tan?

Hans

[Sanjin Jukic]

Is this smiley smoking a cigar? No weed involved? Green tan?

Hans

I dunno :beer:.

[Roberto Lequeux]

What computer doesn't need a normal video card?

Just because REDCode is accellerated doesn't mean the rest of your OpenGL needs will just dissapear. :D

I just thought that it could do it all with a cup holder... but it must be the... I have no clue what the name of this drink I made would be...

It very well could be one double wide card with two GPUs with + than 500 cores total and tons of DDR3...

hehe... look at this: http://www.evga.com/products/enlarge.asp?PN=017-P3-1294-AR&I=1
It looks the part :D

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Looks to me like it replaces those devices.

It doesn't replace any of those devices, It looks to me like it's a dedicated for R3D editing and playback use only it hardly replaces your AJA IO HD or any other devices designed to work with other codecs.

[Michael Lindsay]

This will be a great product irrespective of the fuller spec sheet. I hope though that due attention is spent getting the decoded, de-bayered, colour transformed uncompressed stream scaled back into a usable file (rather than just out of a port). This is obviously the larger market.

The time to create good quality editorial files is all, very occasionally, that has stopped me using Red on some projects.
However others I know have found this the deal breaker.

If it is a DVS oem that should really help sell it... I spent a day with some of their engineers and they really know their hardware..

good luck

Michael

[Chris Parker]

i agree with you entirely michael.....

[Kevin Wild]

I wonder how long we'll have to wait for this. With Snow Leopard and a new FCP HOPEFULLY coming out at that time, I wonder if RED is announcing this a bit early. I hope not...we sure could use the speed increase TODAY.

[Axel Mertes]

We grade 4K realtime already...

It'll be interesting if ***processed*** data can be output via that RED Rocket card. THIS is the important thing. It helps us nothing if its just showing off camera captured unmodified RED deBayered footage with the basic SDK metadata settings. What we need is to see the result of gradings/composites. Our job is modifying footage.

This is the real challenge. Surely RED teams knows that, so I am curious how its actually solved. Any insights on this would be highly appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing some clearance in the field :)

Axel

PS: One thing I am missing: Which 4K display is "recommended" :) ?

[Mark L. Pederson]

We grade 4K realtime already...

It'll be interesting if ***processed*** data can be output via that RED Rocket card. THIS is the important thing. It helps us nothing if its just showing off camera captured unmodified RED deBayered footage with the basic SDK metadata settings. What we need is to see the result of gradings/composites. Our job is modifying footage.

This is the real challenge. Surely RED teams knows that, so I am curious how its actually solved. Any insights on this would be highly appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing some clearance in the field :)

Axel

PS: One thing I am missing: Which 4K display is "recommended" :) ?
That's what the rocket does is process - and yeah - you can take that processed data out to whatever - and I am standing next to Deanan and is confirming that.

4K realtime. Get use to it ... It's about to become ordinary.

[shashbugu]

RED Rocket.

R3D Decode, debayer and playback high quality REALTIME 4k at 30fps (or 5K at 25fps).

Will accelerate FCP, Premiere, After Effects, RED Alert!, REDCINE, REDrushes or any application using the REDCODE SDK.

PCI-Express, Output interfaces will include Quad-DVI and Quad-HD-SDI. Works with Mac, PC and Linux.

Under $5k.


haha thats so funny I just asked about that last week you answered all my questions that day but went silent on this one sweet.:head_explode::thumbsup:

[Axel Mertes]

Hi Mark,

thanks for the info. As you are next to Deanan (beggin mode ON)...

Is all the data being send to the card only RGB or can it be RAW as well?
Because many systems now use GPU based systems - and sending back RGB data at 4K from the GPU is ***something*** (roughly 1.5 GByte/s?)

Is it just specs, or will there be/are there working cards being shown?

Cheers,
Axel

[Pascal Scheffers]

Realtime 5K is awesome.

If the SDK includes ways to use it at less than realtime for VFX... :cool: That is one mighty GPU there.

[Stephen Gentle]

What about Red Ray? How does Red Rocket compare to Red Ray?

Sorry if this has been answered, but I didn't see any answers when I skimmed through the post.

From what has been announced (quite a while though), Red Ray is a stand-alone (no computer needed) video player that plays 4K footage off DVDs. Red Rocket is for accelerating and displaying 4K and 5K footage from a computer - especially handy while editing.


It'll be interesting if ***processed*** data can be output via that RED Rocket card. THIS is the important thing. It helps us nothing if its just showing off camera captured unmodified RED deBayered footage with the basic SDK metadata settings. What we need is to see the result of gradings/composites. Our job is modifying footage.

This is the real challenge. Surely RED teams knows that, so I am curious how its actually solved. Any insights on this would be highly appreciated.

I assume that RED will add an API to their SDK that will let editing and grading software send data to the display...

[Steve Freebairn]

That's what the rocket does is process - and yeah - you can take that processed data out to whatever - and I am standing next to Deanan and is confirming that.

4K realtime. Get use to it ... It's about to become ordinary.

Dude, Mark, go to bed, you're going to need sleep for tomorrows party. Make that tonight's party.

[Roberto Lequeux]

I think it should be Nvidia flavored... just cause ATI is for girls.

I am loving the idea. Hope I can buy one of these for myself.

[Simon Blackledge]

Prayers have just been answered. accept it :)


s

[Mark L. Pederson]

Dude, Mark, go to bed, you're going to need sleep for tomorrows party. Make that tonight's party.

Dude - thanks for the tip - but I slept last night

[Danish P.V.]

Castic Raytracing Card is going to take up a PCI bay. ttp://www.caustic.com/
Now this thing will take up a PCI E spot too....


Did you see their examples on the gallery? Not the best images to showcase their cards/technologies, looks like early 90ies computergraphics to me...

[Chris Parker]

hey mark. i look forward to testing out QTake HD tomorrow. That, and the RED stuff, are the real reasons I am here.......

[Sergio Perez]

I'm really hoping this to work like an rt2000 from the old days when "regular" computers couldn't handle uncompressed SD and 10 bit edits. I hope this card will make my Macpro be able to edit/grade 5k 25p like I do multiple DVCPRO HD 1080 25p streams and display with an Aja card...

[Pawel Achtel]

Huh! This is exactly what my doctor ordered. :beer:

[Justin Harrison]

Cant wait to see this in action maybe hopefully more tonight?

[Shane Betts]

Hah! I was right! http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29260&page=4 Does that mean I get a free one??

Put us down for three. When, when, when, when, when?

[Roberto Lequeux]

Are we still far away from RT 10-bit grading?

I suppose Rocket being an external box may not be possible, but that would really make this product shine. Hook up a pair together and get more power for grading, or for 9k preview.

If they were at least stackable, SLI style or other, that would still be more in line with the modular mentality Red already has, allowing our investments to pay off though a longer life. However this may not possible either...

5k/4k RT grading on a 1080p at 10-bit would be all I would ask for for a long time.

However RT finishing on color critical 4k monitors would be worth a lot more for so many, and would quickly become the new standard if all you needed was to buy two (or three) Rockets. I am not sure of how good the color may be on the 4k monitors but a few people walking the NAB floor have already said that the color looks great on at least one of them.

How nice would it be to do your work at 2k then go to a colorist's personal studio to finish at 4k on a >46" monitor. Or rent the $30k monitor and additional Rocket...

Just wondering aloud.

[Roberto B]

http://auteurs_production.s3.amazonaws.com/cast_member_images/151/Jean_Luc_Godard.png not sure godard would celebrate this $5k cigar

[Antoine Baumann]

Jean-Luc only works with video cam now. If I'm correct his last movie was shot with hdv cam, and (that i am sure of it) he even tried to "shoot" it back to 35 by filming his huge plasma screen with 35mm cam. But finally this job was done by a proper lab.

Red would be too big for him, he likes small cams.

About the workflow, is a redcine 2.0 (out of beta) for linux coming?

thanks,
antoine.

[Roberto B]

Jean-Luc only works with video cam now. If I'm correct his last movie was shot with hdv cam, and (that i am sure of it) he even tried to "shoot" it back to 35 by filming his huge plasma screen with 35mm cam. But finally this job was done by a proper lab.

Red would be too big for him, he likes small cams.right.. we would appreciate a red for us

[Damien Molineaux]

Jim,

Any chance of making that 5k at 25fps? Please?

Mike C

EDIT : Sorry I had read through all the post, just saw Jim's answer.

Thank you Jim and Red team for this tool and making it 25fps compatible.

Cheers,
Damien

[RayFrisby]

RED Rocket.

R3D Decode, debayer and playback high quality REALTIME 4k at 30fps (or 5K at 25fps).

Will accelerate FCP, Premiere, After Effects, RED Alert!, REDCINE, REDrushes or any application using the REDCODE SDK.

PCI-Express, Output interfaces will include Quad-DVI and Quad-HD-SDI. Works with Mac, PC and Linux.

Under $5k.



Great News Jim !

Jim as a newbie to the Red Post workflow I have a few questions please. Sorry if I am not up to speed on the workflow.

Will the Rocket allow debayer and playback of all RED Formats and frame rates, as a pal 25 fps user I am just curious as to what formats will be supported or is it only 5K /25p

I take it you will be able to monitor and grade in full quality 4:4:4 10bit at different resolutions ?

Can you output through the card to a HD CAM / D5 deck or is it just a Decode, Debayer, Acceleration card. (by the way this is fine by me)

Somebody asked can the card be used with the Kona 3 this would be great. Once we can output to a deck for TV and 1080p/2K work.

Sorry if this is widely known but is their an easy way of converting 25fps Red footage to 24fps and visa versa or will this card allow for this.

Will the card work with and accelerate Cineforms Neo 4K, probably wont need to use it now though.

Regards
Ray

[Deanan]

Will the Rocket allow debayer and playback of all RED Formats and frame rates, as a pal 25 fps user I am just curious as to what formats will be supported or is it only 5K /25p

2k, 3k, 4k, 5k supported.

[RayFrisby]

Thanks Deanan ! Working late ??

[Deanan]

Thanks Deanan ! Working late ??

Yeah, the AJA party was alot of work.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Wow. Many thanks for the effort of everyone included in the project. Finally.


I suggest making also software plug-in version for those who already have sufficient GPU power.


Also...ATI's proprietary XGP x16 license exclusivity expires in June...

[Sanjin Jukic]

Jean-Luc only works with video cam now. If I'm correct his last movie was shot with hdv cam, and (that i am sure of it) he even tried to "shoot" it back to 35 by filming his huge plasma screen with 35mm cam. But finally this job was done by a proper lab.

Red would be too big for him, he likes small cams.

About the workflow, is a redcine 2.0 (out of beta) for linux coming?

thanks,
antoine.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/11/29/jean_luc_godard_narrowweb__300x422,0.jpg
This is more or less how Jean-Luc looks today.

http://berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/images/HambourgGodard.jpg
This is a small camera (Beaulieu R16mm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaulieu_(company))) that Godard was shooting with.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Tamron28-105f2-8_02.JPG
RED1 4K hand held camera with Tamron 28-105mm f/2.8 (18-70mm S35mm) zoom that also Godard could use for his movies.

[Shane Betts]

Not until I can use REDCode as an intermediary format. (I'm not use Cineform NEO right now. But I'm also not using REDCode).

Also I'm seeing some big problems in my computer right now....

GPU takes up two bays....
Castic Raytracing Card is going to take up a PCI bay. ttp://www.caustic.com/
Now this thing will take up a PCI E spot too....

I don't know that it'll all fit....


http://dulcesystems.com/html/pro_ex.html

[Shane Betts]

wow. Will it be possible for the card to work in conjunction with other cards like Aja IO HD or Kona 3 or will be there conflicts in Final Cut?
This way one could use Aja products for non-RED projects and accelerate at the same time R3Ds using the RED Rocket ...

I'd suggest they would clash. At the very least you'd need to boot from a different partition.

Then again, why shoot on anything else now:)

[Shane Betts]

Are we still far away from RT 10-bit grading?
Just wondering aloud.

Robert, I've seen nothing to indicate that it is only 8 bit. Do you know something I don't know? I'd be surprised if it isn't 12 bit - the files are (or am I wrong? Too tired to go look it up) and that would probably be easier to do - process out as in...

[Peter Majtan]

Fixed. :)

Not really, he said quad DVI/HD-SDI...

:devil:

[Nils Ruinet]

Wow, exactly what I've been waiting for. That sounds even more exciting than the primes !:)

Will it also be able to render files in realtime (for example from RAW to DNxHD 1080P or other codecs, or DPX sequences) ?

Will it work with Avid ? Color ?

And when will it be available ?

[Roberto B]

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/11/29/jean_luc_godard_narrowweb__300x422,0.jpg
This is more or less how Jean-Luc looks today.

http://berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/images/HambourgGodard.jpg
This is a small camera (Beaulieu R16mm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaulieu_(company))) that Godard was shooting with.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Tamron28-105f2-8_02.JPGyou're just (?) forgetting to compare the difference between the revolutionary 16 mm small-sized cameras and this new $5k workflow bunch of money for 35 shooting..

[Roberto B]

with Tamron 28-105mm f/2.8 (18-70mm S35mm)??

are you dyslexic sj?

[Peter Majtan]

What slot speed is required - x4 , x8 or x16?
Does this replace the primary graphic card?
With 4x DVI / HD-SDI ports this would require dual slot space. Unless this is replacement for the primary graphic card, this can be a major issue. As it is we are short on ports on the Mac Pro's...

I can't wait to get my hands on this one!

:) Peter

[David Birdy]

Fixed. :)

Got Milk??


Hey kids we just passed another mile stone on your left!!!!!!!

I can't wait to see it shredding data tonight at the Rio!!

Thanks Jim & RED team...no wonder no sleeps at RED...You guys have the best toys!!!!

Dave

[ericyoung]

It would be great if there was some way to accelerate laptop work too - wishful thinking?

[Karl Gustav H.]

What slot speed is required - x4 , x8 or x16?
Does this replace the primary graphic card?
With 4x DVI / HD-SDI ports this would require dual slot space. Unless this is replacement for the primary graphic card, this can be a major issue. As it is we are short on ports on the Mac Pro's...

I can't wait to get my hands on this one!

:) Peter

Double slot isn't necessarily required. You could put the actual outputs on a breakout box, and tether that to a single thickness card. (Providing that outputs is the only reason for going double thickness.)

Some way of mounting this in an external chassis would be great. AJA can do it over FW800, and there has been some success using desktop GPUs in external housings that connect to laptops via en expresscard. I think that some of the Matrox MXO products take this approach,

[Peter Majtan]

Double slot isn't necessarily required. You could put the actual outputs on a breakout box, and tether that to a single thickness card. (Providing that outputs is the only reason for going double thickness.)

That is a good point. I sure hope that is the case...
That would leave a space for this beauty:

http://images.appleinsider.com/nvidia-090420-1.png
Link: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/20/nvidia_unveils_1800_quadro_fx_4800_card_for_apples _mac_pro.html

:sifone:

[Karl Gustav H.]

As mentioned on the other threads, why oh why did they limit it to 8-bit DVI?

[Justin Thomas]

ok, so you have the economic resources to design completely new products, but you can't finish the scarlet you started years ago?:thumbsup: yah

[Stephen Gentle]

ok, so you have the economic resources to design completely new products, but you can't finish the scarlet you started years ago?:thumbsup: yah

Scarlet was only announced at last year's NAB, and I haven't heard anything about the schedule slipping much since the big December refresh... Anyway, this is a pretty important product for the existing RED ONE workflow and most of the new cameras, so I'm glad they're working on it as well.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

imho this is far more important than scarlet beeing released one or two months earlier.

its one of the last puzzles.

[Karl Gustav H.]

ok, so you have the economic resources to design completely new products, but you can't finish the scarlet you started years ago?:thumbsup: yah

It's all part of the same process.

At a guess the new card is using a variant of the ASIC being developed for the DSMC line. Once that design is finalised, the rest of the card isn't that difficult in comparison, especially considering the background of some of the people in the Red team.

Once the two key chips for the cameras are done (ASIC and CMOS) I suspect the floodgates will open in terms of interesting stuff from RED reaching market.

Then again, maybe this card is subcontracted out to a third party. I think offhollywood may have dropped a little hint a couple of days ago; maybe I'm reading too much into some comments.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Robert, I've seen nothing to indicate that it is only 8 bit. Do you know something I don't know? I'd be surprised if it isn't 12 bit - the files are (or am I wrong? Too tired to go look it up) and that would probably be easier to do - process out as in...

No, I haven't but what I am worried about is intensive grading if it has to be handled by the Red Rocket all while debayering 5k and making a 1080 out of it. Ultimately the grading should be applied before downconversion, meaning the process should be that much more intensive.

So I wonder how all of this will work and what the actual capabilities will be.

Will we get the details tomorrow?


It's all part of the same process.

At a guess the new card is using a variant of the ASIC being developed for the DSMC line.

This is what I thought too.

[Gordon Prince]

scarlet was only announced at last year's nabnab 2007

[Brent J. Craig]

It's all part of the same process.

At a guess the new card is using a variant of the ASIC being developed for the DSMC line. Once that design is finalised, the rest of the card isn't that difficult in comparison...

Exactly! The first thing that went through my head when I saw the announcement was "Oh good, it looks like their ASIC development is going well!"

[Cristina S]

nab 2007http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=36580&postcount=9

04-29-2007

>> We are very excited about the RED Professional Pocket camera (next year) but it is not a replacement for the RED ONE.

Jim <<

[Roberto Lequeux]

Exactly! The first thing that went through my head when I saw the announcement was "Oh good, it looks like their ASIC development is going well!"

This would amortize their ASIC R&D over many, many, more units. I thought of this as soon as I heard that those ASIC things can only do what they are designed to do. I had no idea it would come true.

The problem though, would be that the ASIC can only do the debayering and maybe a few other things needed by the camera. So it won't handle additional processing for grading, unless Red is holding out on some crazy non-RAW type features that would require manipulation of the image for a broadcast ready output.

Or, if that dream doesn't come true, Red Rocket could be a whole lot more than just a card but, a few different "cards" put together. They could have slapped a couple of NVIDIA or ATI cores on it along side ASIC, making it their own do-it-all monster card/box.

Given the prices that Red has been putting out I wouldn't put it past them to offer an all in one for $4,500.

or using a license from the architecture and design of the Quadro...

knowing what the heck this thing looks like might make this a lot easier...

[Matt Gottshalk]

Cool:)
Will it scale down/decode in real time as well?

Beat me to it..... :)

[John Caballero]

That's all the news from Red? What happened to Scarlet? Not even a photograph of the 2 month old mock-up?

[Cal Brunker]

OMG this is the greatest thing I've ever heard, SOLD right now!

[Karl Gustav H.]

There is still one more announcement to come according to Jannard. Camera protos are being shown at the party tonight. No doubt photo's will do the rounds soon after.

[PatrickW]

Obviously a mobile version needs to be eventually implemented, even if its a scaled down version....

But the question I have is... Can I put two or more of these into a rendering box and have the system truly fly? We have dual CPU quad cores, dual SLI video cards, we want to have dual Red Rockets!

[podrush.net]

I think you are on the money there as ever Michael. I think it is DVS, and as ever your points are well made!

[DaveT]

As mentioned on the other threads, why oh why did they limit it to 8-bit DVI?

Cause Apple have this new display tech that don't do 10bit.

You're going to have to wait till Apple upgrades display port or what ever it's called.

Get a PC if you want the extra bits.

[Scott Brown]

Jim et al

This is really exciting news and we're looking forward to hearing more details on the card.

We now BADLY need some affordable 4K monitors - they're being made right now in Taiwan, all we need is someone like Jim and Red to bulk purchase these and bring the price down to something manageable.

Oh and while I'm drooling over my wish list, I would love someone to produce an ENG style servo zoom PL mount lens for Red. We do so much TV work where we're constantly up against tight deadlines and this would allow us to use our Red for much more than just our very high end shoots.

Come on Jim, if anyone can do this it's you :sifone:

[Hrvoje Simic]

It would be great if there was some way to accelerate laptop work too

there is. :-)



Also...ATI's proprietary XGP x16 license exclusivity expires in June...

[Hans von Sonntag]

The problem though, would be that the ASIC can only do the debayering and maybe a few other things needed by the camera. So it won't handle additional processing for grading, unless Red is holding out on some crazy non-RAW type features that would require manipulation of the image for a broadcast ready output.


RT RAW and RGB grading is happening now. The problem with R3D RAW is currently the heavy CPU power that is needed to perform the debayering (transcoding of compressed Raw to RGB) through Red's SDK. Via GPU this can be accomplished much easier (see IRIDAS.com for instance). The new hardware based R3D debayer tool will do the power consuming debayering while the GPU can do the grading, all RT. With a NVIDIA SDI board a full debayer plus colour correction in RT to Tape (HDCAM SR) will be possible. Many applications that already have Red's SDK inplemented will have a big boost. How this will work out in reality - we will see.

Anyway, this board will be a big, big helper and makes a new GPU based SDK obsolete. Great!

Hans

[DaveT]

Feels like the Newtek Toaster all over again.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Great...now if COLOR could do a full debayer a lot of indies would be happy.

for the big boys dvs seems to be the hot chick in town

[Emery Wells]

Sounds like this is a lot like the board they would need for the RED RAY. Presuming they have been working on that for the past year, one might come the conclusion this should be near ready? Not only am I ecstatic about this product for post but I want to slap one in my RED. Getting a full quality deabyer and scale to 2k out of the camera via dual link HD-SDI would be phenomenal.

Any idea of a shipping date yet Jim? I promise I wont hold you to it... unless you miss it, in which case I'll become raging mad :)

[Curran Giddens]

Any idea of a shipping date yet Jim? I promise I wont hold you to it... unless you miss it, in which case I'll become raging mad :)

I'm also extremely interested in any idea of a shipping date. My finger is itching to pull the trigger on that prime set, but not if the RED Rocket is shipping within the next month or two.

[Chris.]

VERY NICE! Nice price too. :thumbsup:


RED Rocket.

PCI-Express, Output interfaces will include Quad-DVI and Quad-HD-SDI. Works with Mac, PC and Linux.

Under $5k.

What speed of PCI-Express slot does it need? Any change a PCI expresscard34 is possible down the road?!?... they are limited to single lane PCI-Express speeds so I'm thinking probably not. :) ...I'm still hoping though, or that if single lane is supported something like this can work.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/expresscard-34-to-pci-expansion-box-p29858.html

--
Chris.

[Stacey Spears]

Will accelerate FCP, Premiere, After Effects, RED Alert!, REDCINE, REDrushes or any application using the REDCODE SDK.

Will this work with SCRATCH?

[James Brundige]

Jim et al

Oh and while I'm drooling over my wish list, I would love someone to produce an ENG style servo zoom PL mount lens for Red. We do so much TV work where we're constantly up against tight deadlines and this would allow us to use our Red for much more than just our very high end shoots.

Come on Jim, if anyone can do this it's you :sifone:

Great idea - the new Fujinon is a disappointment - no servo - and 27 mm image circle.

[Ryan S]

Oh god. I want it five minutes ago. This is a fantastic development. As always, great work Jim!

[Mark L. Pederson]

Will this work with SCRATCH?

YES. It will.

[Bing Bailey]

Any 4k Displays and Projectors to go with this eco system :)

Combine Epic/Scarlet/RedOne, Redrocket , an Octo Mac , Final Cut , After Effects, Red Ray and 4k Displays and you have a very powerful mobile movie production/post production factory.

4k dailys with RED RAY are going to be awesome

[Obin Olson]

I am guessing that with this card Apps like Premiere will only need mid level systems to edit realtime in 4k instead of the 16cores needed at the moment to debayer 2k in realtime.....hmmm...very cool....


the big question is : can you put it in a form factor that allows for a laptop pci-e slot to work? If so we are talking about MOBILE 4k workflow!!

BTW NAB is cool, I am working with Adobe...anyone around come to our 2pm and see the new tools from Adobe! or the 10am at the HP booth and checkout whats going on with the Z workstation..it's HOT for RED

[Obin Olson]

HA!

http://sewelldirect.com/ExpressCard-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Full-Length.asp

now we are cooking!!!

[Stacey Spears]

YES. It will.

Cool. I would say this saves me from getting a new DP Nehelam box, but since I am out of PCIe slots, I need the new box with all PCIe anyway. :)

So then the pipeline is not simply HDD->Card->DVI/HD-SDI, its also HDD(R3D)->Card->HDD(uncompressed). Fast storage! :)

[Rex Teese]

Yeah, I love how the guys at RED can release a 5 line statement about a piece of gear that is yet to exist and everyone starts to say how it 's great, an end gamer or the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do you know what I think is and end gamer, a single proven workflow from camera to distribution that works for the number 1 and number 2 professional editing applications (AVID and FCP, in that order) used by the industry that RED is trying to market to. Give me that, and not a bunch of hype, and I'll start to agree on how great RED is. Yes, the images are great, but film is easy, so until the same can be said of the RED workflow, well.........

[Karl Gustav H.]

HA!

http://sewelldirect.com/ExpressCard-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Full-Length.asp

now we are cooking!!!



Providing there is sufficient bandwidth.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Yeah, I love how the guys at RED can release a 5 line statement about a piece of gear that is yet to exist and everyone starts to say how it 's great, an end gamer or the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do you know what I think is and end gamer, a single proven workflow from camera to distribution that works for the number 1 and number 2 professional editing applications (AVID and FCP, in that order) used by the industry that RED is trying to market to. Give me that, and not a bunch of hype, and I'll start to agree on how great RED is. Yes, the images are great, but film is easy, so until the same can be said of the RED workflow, well.........


red one started with 3 lines...hehe

film or red doesnt matter for an avid workflow...
transcode or process is the same amount of time.

and WHY BLAME RED WHEN AVID IS NOT IMPLEMENTING NATIVE R3D HANDLING INTO MC.

the greedy boys will implement r3d into DS.:whack:

btw. inmho avid is going the wrong way.
i see the most possibilities...with adobe for the future.

[Andrae Palmer]

Yeah, I love how the guys at RED can release a 5 line statement about a piece of gear that is yet to exist and everyone starts to say how it 's great, an end gamer or the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do you know what I think is and end gamer, a single proven workflow from camera to distribution that works for the number 1 and number 2 professional editing applications (AVID and FCP, in that order) used by the industry that RED is trying to market to. Give me that, and not a bunch of hype, and I'll start to agree on how great RED is. Yes, the images are great, but film is easy, so until the same can be said of the RED workflow, well.........

Troll! Film is easy? :)

[Fredrik Harreschou]

YES. It will.

Thank you, Mark. I was a little worried there, with JJ mentioning the SDK. But then again, he did say REDCINE...

Cheers,
Fredrik

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Troll! Film is easy? :)

If not a troll, with three posts he is definitely a tease.

[Gary Stone]

Yeah, I love how the guys at RED can release a 5 line statement about a piece of gear that is yet to exist and everyone starts to say how it 's great, an end gamer or the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do you know what I think is and end gamer, a single proven workflow from camera to distribution that works for the number 1 and number 2 professional editing applications (AVID and FCP, in that order) used by the industry that RED is trying to market to. Give me that, and not a bunch of hype, and I'll start to agree on how great RED is. Yes, the images are great, but film is easy, so until the same can be said of the RED workflow, well.........

film is also too expensive for most. an "in development" workflow is an acceptable trade for most as well...RED will get it there.

[David Dennis]

I can understand what an enormous boon this is for RED ONE and Epic customers, but I do have a question.

Does this mean that in order to edit video from the $4,000 3K Scarlet in real time, you will need a $3,300 Mac Pro (instead of my existing MacBook Pro) and a $5,000 box, or can less expensive solutions suffice for that market?

As a likely Scarlet purchaser I'm understandably concerned that the workflow solution will cost more than the camera!

Thoughts?

D

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

"RED Rocket," huh?

I take it you guys don't watch South Park (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152832).

[Jeff Hitchcock]

Cause Apple have this new display tech that don't do 10bit.

You're going to have to wait till Apple upgrades display port or what ever it's called.

Actually, it looks like DisplayPort supports up to 16bit.

http://www.displayport.org/white-papers/whitepapers/DP_Tech_Overview_English.pdf

[Fredrik Harreschou]

I can understand what an enormous boon this is for RED ONE and Epic customers, but I do have a question.

Does this mean that in order to edit video from the $4,000 3K Scarlet in real time, you will need a $3,300 Mac Pro (instead of my existing MacBook Pro) and a $5,000 box, or can less expensive solutions suffice for that market?

As a likely Scarlet purchaser I'm understandably concerned that the workflow solution will cost more than the camera!

Thoughts?

D

You can edit just fine with the MacBook you have. You don't need 4K high to edit, do you?

[Vincent Rice]

Cause Apple have this new display tech that don't do 10bit.

You're going to have to wait till Apple upgrades display port or what ever it's called.

Get a PC if you want the extra bits.

This makes no sense....

[Roxco]

PS: Do you have a render? Ok it's just a board... But we need renders!


Renders are usually better done with the CPU and not outside hardware.

Rosco

.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I can understand what an enormous boon this is for RED ONE and Epic customers, but I do have a question.

Does this mean that in order to edit video from the $4,000 3K Scarlet in real time, you will need a $3,300 Mac Pro (instead of my existing MacBook Pro) and a $5,000 box, or can less expensive solutions suffice for that market?

As a likely Scarlet purchaser I'm understandably concerned that the workflow solution will cost more than the camera!

Thoughts?

D

the 1st 6 months you needed 50 000 usd scratch to work with a red one effectivly...until crimson arrived :)

now the game changed...with all the plug ins.

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Renders are usually better done with the CPU and not outside hardware.

Rosco

.

LOL! I think he refers to a render of the actual pci board.

[Rex Teese]

No, not a troll, just tired of marketing hype. And yes, workflow for film is easy.

I'm not just talking about Avid. Support for a product runs two ways, especially when someone is introducing it into an established market. RED's biggest mistake was signing an agreement with just two companies for development when those two companies had a measurably small portion of the market. What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it. Sure, RED may be cheaper than film, but from my experience, it's not faster and it's not easier. I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.

[Greg M]

So does the Red Rocket have a sheath?

[Simon Blackledge]

..just get an external Pci-e expander raid chassis n pop anything else ya need in your raid

[Colin Hubick]

I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.

I agree with you on the hype, but I have to disagree with the ease of the post. I find it quite simple, and very efficient. This new "Red Rocket" card will make things quicker (whenever it shows it's face). But the flow already works quickly and efficiently for us.

Colin

[Fredrik Harreschou]

What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it.

If you are a post guy, as myself, this is what makes you money, isn't it? There are so many workflows that work, depending on your platform, software, time vs money, and what your client wants or expects.

The fact that there are 50 workflow variations is a good thing in my book. It all depends on the project and what your client can afford. Best and easiest isn't necessarily the same thing either. You should know that.

And please, there are no "completely certified" workflows for film either. Never has, never will be.

Cheers,
Fredrik

[Chris Parker]

rex. people like you make me laugh. 'RED's biggest mistake was.....blah blah blah.'

you said it yourself. you have 50 different workflow options. learn one. pick one. use one. forget about the other 49.

nah. on second thought, RED should really hire you. you are right. RED has no idea how limiting their workflow problems are to camera sales. shit man. they should hire you to consult. they are hurting, and have barely sold any cameras. there is barely any talk of support for .r3d at NAB this year from ALL other product maufacturers. If RED had of hired you earlier on in their (3 year old) life, maybe they would have had more success. Maybe they would have sold over 5,000 cameras, turned the industry upside down, and been the ones to truly accelerate the use of digital over film.

Truth is Rex, it is RED's 50 different (some cheap, some not) workflow options and their ability for anyone (who is willing) to work with their footage straight out of the camera EVEN on a laptop if you wish that is a HUGE part of why they are a hit. And if you want to work with it on an AVID, then transcode to native AVID files. 'Process' the footage. You should be able to understand that Rex, 'process'....like film.

Now go stick your head back up your ass.....

[Roxco]

LOL! I think he refers to a render of the actual pci board.

Double LOL - as you got it right. ;) I saw the student signature and assumed he was asking a basic question. Obviously I need to get more sleep rather than partying. I thought I saw a volcano erupt next to a pirate ship last night.

Thankfully my dreams were better in this morning's RED sunlight.

Rosco

[Greg M]

No, not a troll, just tired of marketing hype. And yes, workflow for film is easy.

I'm not just talking about Avid. Support for a product runs two ways, especially when someone is introducing it into an established market. RED's biggest mistake was signing an agreement with just two companies for development when those two companies had a measurably small portion of the market. What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it. Sure, RED may be cheaper than film, but from my experience, it's not faster and it's not easier. I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.

Rex, as a post professional it is our jobs to stay on top of technology and new workflows. We have been posting Red One footage for well over a year now and have not beat our heads against the wall once. We have a workflow that works exceptionally well and its not rocket science.

[J. Eric Camp]

I don't know about you Rex, but our workflows are very much in the exact vain of a film work flow. So if the film workflow is easy then by proxy so is the red.

As has been said. Find a workflow and make it work.

[Christopher Adams]

Maybe there would be a way to make a generic connector as as outboard box. with the connector cable going to either an internal pci-e board or expresscard. Then best of both worlds. And when the slot technology changed again you just swap out the interface module to the motherboard instead of the whole logic module of the red rocket.
GO modular like the red itself and dongle off the interface part to be what ever is fast enough at the time.


VERY NICE! Nice price too. :thumbsup:



What speed of PCI-Express slot does it need? Any change a PCI expresscard34 is possible down the road?!?... they are limited to single lane PCI-Express speeds so I'm thinking probably not. :) ...I'm still hoping though, or that if single lane is supported something like this can work.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/expresscard-34-to-pci-expansion-box-p29858.html

--
Chris.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Did you see their examples on the gallery? Not the best images to showcase their cards/technologies, looks like early 90ies computergraphics to me...

Yeah their examples are pretty bad 'developer art'. But that's just bad art not bad tech. It's like debayering bad red footage in real time. :D Don't judge the quality of the chip on the quality of the picture.

Once they get Brazil 2 accellerated then anything rendered with Brazil 2 will be a demonstration of the card's quality.

---

Re: Aja and FW 800

Not going to happen. If you're debayering 5k into RGB in real time at 24fps then you're looking at Gigabytes per second of uncompressed video. There just isn't enough bandwidth with any external connection except for PCIe.

[Dan Finlayson]

No, not a troll, just tired of marketing hype. And yes, workflow for film is easy.

I'm not just talking about Avid. Support for a product runs two ways, especially when someone is introducing it into an established market. RED's biggest mistake was signing an agreement with just two companies for development when those two companies had a measurably small portion of the market. What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it. Sure, RED may be cheaper than film, but from my experience, it's not faster and it's not easier. I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.

Since when does film have only one workflow variation?

Take a look at this:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23606

I gave the top method a run through yesterday and it works beautifully on my mbp -- 2K output from a laptop!

[Edgar Pitts]

"RED Rocket," huh?

I take it you guys don't watch South Park (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152832).

Not that is funny!!!

[Colin Hubick]

One thing I feel the need to say, maybe we could not slam people when they post their point of view. A better use of time would be to offer suggestions or help them wrap their head around the post instead of telling them to stick their head up their ass. Red points people to these boards for help, and there is nothing worse then coming to this forum, and seeing infighting among the participants. Just saying negativity doesn't help anybody.

...and just for the record, I would be happy to help anyway I can, my inbox is always open...

Colin

[Fredrik Harreschou]

One thing I feel the need to say, maybe we could not slam people when they post their point of view. A better use of time would be to offer suggestions or help them wrap their head around the post instead of telling them to stick their head up their ass. Red points people to these boards for help, and there is nothing worse then coming to this forum, and seeing infighting among the participants. Just saying negativity doesn't help anybody.

Colin

If the Rex needs help he has come to the right place. But that wasn't the tone of his post. And he was actually given advice that relates to his profession and his attitude towards something he should actually embrace instead of complain about. The head in the ass remark wasn't necessary. But I still believe he needs to rethink his attitude towards new inventions if he wants to survive in this business. Unless he's one of the top 50 editors in the world. But then he has several assistants working for him anyways and shouldn't have to care where the material comes from...

Cheers,
Fredrik

[Simon Blackledge]

Hmm.. will this then give us SDI out for grading using SpeedGradeDI on the mac :-/

2010 is a sweet update.

[Colin Hubick]

If the Rex needs help he has come to the right place. But that wasn't the tone of his post. And he was actually given advice that relates to his profession and his attitude towards something he should actually embrace instead of complain about. The head in the ass remark wasn't necessary. But I still believe he needs to rethink his attitude towards new inventions if he wants to survive in this business. Unless he's one of the top 50 editors in the world. But then he has several assistants working for him anyways and shouldn't care where the material comes from...

Cheers,
Fredrik

I hear you Fredrik, Rex came across hostile, and was met with a hostile response. Some people don't grasp new technology easily, and others just don't want to accept change. But none the less, we as RED professionals can put out the ultimate in professionalism, by ignoring the negative "gun shot" posts and try to help with the main topic of post / camera / whatever, and ignore the hostility.

just saying, let's try and chill out a bit. Much better results are achieved with a cool head.

best
Colin

[Chris Parker]

the head in the ass comment wasn't necessary, and i apologize.

but it was kinda funny.

anyways, i felt rex's post had a tone to it that did not warrant an 'i'm so sorry sir you are having difficulty with RED workflow, how can we help you?' so i opted for the 'head in the ass' response. sorry.

[Colin Hubick]

the head in the ass comment wasn't necessary, and i apologize.

takes a big person to apologize, kudos.

...Anyway back to the technology!!

Hey Jim, when can we look forward to this taking up a slot in my machine!?!?!

Colin

[Jannard]

takes a big person to apologize, kudos.

...Anyway back to the technology!!

Hey Jim, when can we look forward to this taking up a slot in my machine!?!?!

Colin

About two months...

Jim

[Tom Lowe]

Is Red teamed up with a large company to offer this kind of technology? Nvidia or whatever?

How does it differ from these new, Massively Parallel GPU cards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPGPU) that seem to be designed for this type of debayering or highly repetitive encoding tasks?

Sorry if this seems like a noobie question.

[jimhare]

Not in the slightest. Like EVERYTHING else in this industry, it's a simple matter of balancing the speed and efficiency of each task with the cost of doing so.

You will get equally fantastic results on an iMac as you will a fully loaded Mac Pro with Red Rocket, it will just take you longer.

As your invoices increase, so will your desire and ability to do things faster, hence the optional tools.

All is good and the revolution continues to be available to everyone.

But the bottom line is some people will make more by spending more, others just want a fantastic camera at the lowest cost.

Both are right and both will be VERY happy! :)






I can understand what an enormous boon this is for RED ONE and Epic customers, but I do have a question.

Does this mean that in order to edit video from the $4,000 3K Scarlet in real time, you will need a $3,300 Mac Pro (instead of my existing MacBook Pro) and a $5,000 box, or can less expensive solutions suffice for that market?

As a likely Scarlet purchaser I'm understandably concerned that the workflow solution will cost more than the camera!

Thoughts?

D

[Colin Hubick]

My guess is AJA might be involved, given Ted's history with that outstanding company...

As always, just a guess.

[Andrae Palmer]

the head in the ass comment wasn't necessary, and i apologize.

but it was kinda funny.

anyways, i felt rex's post had a tone to it that did not warrant an 'i'm so sorry sir you are having difficulty with RED workflow, how can we help you?' so i opted for the 'head in the ass' response. sorry.

I found your response rightly appropriate. Nonsensical blabber shouldn't be met by sentiency... that is just a waste of intelligence. Better to tell them to unf$%# their head out of their ass and be done with it. That is the equivalent of giving them a wake up slap.

[Colin Hubick]

About two months...

Jim

thanks

[Curran Giddens]

About two months...

Jim

Perfect. Thanks!

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Hmm.. will this then give us SDI out for grading using SpeedGradeDI on the mac :-/

2010 is a sweet update.

I agree w Colin, let's get back to tech!

flameop: I am not so sure. I think the RR will uncompress and debayer but send the RGB to your graphic card over the PCI-e bus. So you will still need Nvidia SDI drivers. But what do I know?

[Colin Hubick]

IMHO, any card that will allow me to either push out a full debayer in realtime to my HD monitor, or to a 2k projector in the DI would be killer.

[Wouter V Gestel]

Question, will RED rocket only be able to work with RED footage or can I use it with other formats too? Basically my question is: will it replace the need for an AJA Kona card if RED isn't the only format I work with?

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Is Red teamed up with a large company to offer this kind of technology? Nvidia or whatever?




DVS offers OEM boards. DVS has a realtime 4K debayer with Clipster now at NAB.

http://www.dvs.de/uploads/media/20090414_DVS_NAB_CLIPSTER_RED_e.pdf

Bernhard Reitz, Head of Product Management at DVS:
"We have worked closely with RED to provide this revolutionary
workflow with CLIPSTER®. By processing full quality 4K 12 bit RED
material in real time with our hardware acceleration, our customers
can dramatically increase their productivity and flexibly organize
their workflows and content."

My guess is that RED wants to get something back from DVS for collaborating on the development. The same way they got REDCINE from Assimiate.

[Greg M]

DVS offers OEM boards. DVS has a realtime 4K debayer with Clipster now at NAB.

http://www.dvs.de/uploads/media/20090414_DVS_NAB_CLIPSTER_RED_e.pdf

Bernhard Reitz, Head of Product Management at DVS:
"We have worked closely with RED to provide this revolutionary
workflow with CLIPSTER®. By processing full quality 4K 12 bit RED
material in real time with our hardware acceleration, our customers
can dramatically increase their productivity and flexibly organize
their workflows and content."

My guess is that RED wants to get something back from DVS for collaborating on the development. The same way they got REDCINE from Assimiate.



Well if this is the DVS board, that would be a HUGE coup!!!

[Fredrik Harreschou]

I dunno, but check out this tongue-in-cheek remark from Mark at offhollywood:


DVS does oem several boards ....

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=402704&postcount=10

[Karl Gustav H.]

I'm glad someone else picked up on that. ;)

[Mark L. Pederson]

I dunno, but check out this tongue-in-cheek remark from Mark at offhollywood:



http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=402704&postcount=10

That was to suggest the obvious of where this could eventually go.

As far as I know this is a RED board - not a DVS board.

[Joe Carney]

This should go well with the new JVC 4K lcd monitor showing at NAB. It going to list for under 10K USD.

[Fredrik Harreschou]

That was to suggest the obvious of where this could eventually go.

As far as I know this is a RED board - not a DVS board.

It is just speculation, Mark. I didn't mean to "out you" on this.
This is a RED board as far as I know, too...

As long as it works in SCRATCH and gives us realtime 4K high I really couldn't care less.

[Antoine Baumann]

Actually, it looks like DisplayPort supports up to 16bit.

http://www.displayport.org/white-papers/whitepapers/DP_Tech_Overview_English.pdf

Same with DVI...

[Fredrik Harreschou]

If it does 4K high in realtime, I guess it will do 2K high (from 4K) at something way above 100 fps if you have the RAID bandwidth...

[Hrvoje Simic]

You will get equally fantastic results on an iMac as you will a fully loaded Mac Pro with Red Rocket, it will just take you longer.


Additional PCI-Express in iMAC ? Doesn't seem probable, IMO.

[Christian Edwards]

prelude?

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=343296&postcount=3

[Bing Bailey]

how will it deal with 6k ? will there be an update for that or a gen 2 board

[Hrvoje Simic]

prelude?

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=343296&postcount=3

Nope. That's the underwater version.

[Jarred Land]

The RED Rocket can be driven by any application that uses the RED SDK.

Assimliate/Scratch has just confirmed that they will support the card on arrival.

[Bing Bailey]

as well as being an awesome thing for red post work this is an incredibly smart way to amortize all the costs of developing those ASICS over a bigger market. lots more post people than RED owners and this feeds red ray too. building a very nice eco system around the RED Cameras. can't wait to see what comes next :) RED RGB Codec for post editing/grading

[Chris Newman]

Now wouldn't it be nice if RED gave us something to connect the output of this card to. :wink:

[Christian Edwards]

Now wouldn't it be nice if RED gave us something to connect the output of this card to. :wink:
Be careful ... these guys listen hence the Red Processing Unit

[Emery Wells]

The RED Rocket can be driven by any application that uses the RED SDK.

Assimliate/Scratch has just confirmed that they will support the card on arrival.

Is this really going to be shipping in two months time? You guys are killing us, we need full details!

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Can R3D benefit from CUDA?

Does any application uses CUDA to speed up rendering of RED footage? CS4?

[Bing Bailey]

I think the next version of Final Cut Studio with Snow Leopard will unleash many things , CUDA , 64bit Final Cut/Color , Combine REDCODE Acceleration with RED Rocket to Grade Directly in Color on a 64bit machine using CUDA for rendering Effects/Transitions. Yeah I think in 6 months time the RED World is going to look very very very different and all the bitching should cease at least until they announce more products we will have to wait for :)

[Bing Bailey]

Jarred will Red Rocket have 64bit drivers for Leopard/Snow Leopard/Win XP/Vista/Win 7

[Christian Edwards]

Jarred will Red Rocket have 64bit drivers for Leopard/Snow Leopard/Win XP/Vista/Win 7
i think you can pretty much assume it will i cant wait for win7 : )

[Bing Bailey]

Yeah, Vista is a DOG

[Sander de Regt]

But with enough RAM you can teach dogs new tricks.

[Carsten Kurz]

Not exactly the same thing, but as Red Rocket, it has just been announced:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_dvp.html

- Carsten

[C.H.Haskell]

All I can say at this time is keep an eye on my post in the coming months, there is an alternative operation coming to NYC , a true indie centric support HQ. Much more to come. See you folks at the RED party. Cheers.

Haskell

[C.H.Haskell]

Jim, Cheers! Look forward to catching up once again...as well the rest of RED team and usual suspects. Bravo guys and gals...could not be more proud of the direction RED and this community is going. :)

Haskell

[Rocco Schult]

Can R3D benefit from CUDA?

Does any application uses CUDA to speed up rendering of RED footage? CS4?

RED SDK is not running on pixelshaders/GPU, hence it won't benefit from CUDA. At least as of now.

[Rocco Schult]

I think the next version of Final Cut Studio with Snow Leopard will unleash many things , CUDA , 64bit Final Cut/Color , Combine REDCODE Acceleration with RED Rocket to Grade Directly in Color on a 64bit machine using CUDA for rendering Effects/Transitions. ..

I wish your dream would come true.

[Joe G.]

"R3D Decode, debayer and playback high quality REALTIME 4k at 30fps "

Does this mean it also helps render footage at a different resolution (like 2K or 1080p)? Or is it only for "playback" for viewing on a monitor?

[Jason Ing]

When can we pre-order and get in line? Or will there be enough quantities that it won't be an issue in two months?

[Curran Giddens]

RED Rocket

http://reduser.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=63&pictureid=288

[Stephen Gentle]

I think the next version of Final Cut Studio with Snow Leopard will unleash many things , CUDA , 64bit Final Cut/Color , Combine REDCODE Acceleration with RED Rocket to Grade Directly in Color on a 64bit machine using CUDA for rendering Effects/Transitions. Yeah I think in 6 months time the RED World is going to look very very very different and all the bitching should cease at least until they announce more products we will have to wait for :)

I think that CUDA is going to fade out now that OpenCL has been developed. Nobody will want to develop for a tech that only supports one brand of card (CUDA only works on Nvidia afaik) now that an open standard has been announced...

[Bing Bailey]

CUDA works on both , at least it can , actually it'll be absorbed by open cl rather than fade out

[Roberto Lequeux]

Hans, thank you for laying it out like that, it really helped.

So it is confirmed that it will be a card and not a box (though we'll see if we can put it in one) and that it will take up two slots.

That makes me think you might be able to SLI them... unless they put out a bigger and faster version for over 5k.

Two months! How fast will these roll out?

[Joel Kaye]

Will send to Color work with this card - and how?

What about realtime 1080P fully debayered and resized from 4K? Sending 4K is interesting but sending 1080P to HD-SDI, DVI, dpx, a blu-ray file or h.264 would be really beneficial.

I'm not really worried about realtime 4K playback. Am I missing something obvious here?

[Joseph Ward]

Will this work with more RED Rockets?

[Bing Bailey]

actually this card is what I was hoping red ray turned out to be , not just a player but a processing box we could attach to the mac/pc

[Casey Green]

PS: Do you have a render? Ok it's just a board... But we need renders!

Aha!

;-)

[RayFrisby]

Just a thought I don't know if this can be done but somebody posted a suggestion that the Rocket be an external box capable of connecting to a PCIe slot and also to a laptop.
Excuse me if this is not possible but it seems like a good idea.
The only reason I say this is if the card takes up two slots it doesn't leave a lot of room left for say a Kona 3 card or external raid storage or stock/other graphics card in a Pro Mac.
Now maybe you wont need the Kona 3 and stock graphics card with the Rocket I hope not, but this is just an observation. I'm sure the RED team have thought of this, just wondering if this is possible?

Also if the Rocket does in some way replace the Kona 3 can you please look at the ability to output to HD CAM/D5 Decks. I say this as most HD TV output is still broadcast this way and seems like an important consideration in making RED a first choice camera for broadcast shows. Integration with current workflows is still very important in TV Land, and maybe even more important that in digital cinema.

One last point I am not sure if this is currently possible but if the Rocket could also handle conversion of footage in all resolutions from 25fps to 24fps and visa versa then the any format recorded on a RED camera could easily be broadcast throughout the world.
Just my 2 cents.