RED & unlikely prediction in Rangefinder Magazine

[Marcus Irvin]

http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/Jun07/showpage.taf?page=90

Just got in the latest Rangefinder magazine. This article written about NAB doesn't provide anything new except the author's unlikely RED prediction. He suggests RED or something like it will cause a convergence between still photographers and video photographers since a 4k frame could be picked from the timeline for still purposes. That may be feasible occasionally, but IMHO, the shutter speeds and flash incompatibilities are are insurmountable obstacles for most still shoots. You can't go back to the client and say, "Sorry, the video is OK, but the lighting wasn't good enough to get your still shots without extreme noise, blur, or shallow DOF".

We all know how bad location event lighting can be, even for big events if they are not shooting their own video. In fact, I would suggest that lighting is the redheaded stepchild at most events when the host isn't shooting their own video or expecting TV coverage. We will still need flash or still cameras for a long time, even if RED performs as expected.

I wish this weren't true. Not only would event work be more fun, but having a loaded RED on my tripod would certainly stop that infamous quote, "Hey that looks just like my camera at home".

[Mark B.]

I'll be using the Red for still photography, but I agree the flash issues will be difficult at first. Fortunately, electronic devices can be made that will sync a video frame with a strobe.

A more significant detriment to using the R1 for still photography is it's size. Still cameras are much smaller and lighter, making it easier to move them around the subject and making lens changes easier.

[Ed Watkins]

I agree, but from a nature/doc standpoint being able to pull stills from footage could be invaluable.

I always try and carry an SLR with me when I'm out, but more often than not I get carried away with video and totally forget about stills, then I have nothing to put out with publicity packages. However a 4K image would be perfect for in-the-field magazine stills.

[Desert Rune]

Isn't Rangefinder geared towards mostly wedding photographers?

There's a photographer who shoots 10,000 DSLR photos during the course of a wedding day. Maybe RED is targeted to photographers like him? :)

[Poi Boy]

A good portion of my business is advertising photography. I anticipate being able to pull stills from a 30: commercial on occasion but it will certainly not replace my digital back for still work. It isn't the right tool for the job as far as ad work goes maybe the wedding or nature guys can get away with it though.
Aloha
-A

[Tom Lowe]

It happens for me all the time when I am shooting timelapses at 4K on my DLSR. It's great because when you are shooting a timelapse of a sunset, for example, you have 450 frames out of which you can choose the very best one for your "still." :) Of course, these are static landscapes, so motion isn't an issue.

[Paris Remillard]

I agree that the form factors of RED vs. DSLRs make them suited for different situations. Regarding strobes; there have been cinema strobes that sync with various frame rates for a long time. I know that Clairmont camera used to have ads for them in AC probably 10 years ago. Also, there are a lot of lighting instruments that are capable of outputting enough light to be able to either stop down or increase frame rate or shutter speed/angle. But they are mostly big as are the strobes so it comes back to the form factor issue.
I've actually never owned a strobe of any kind for stills work. I don't usually like the look (of on-camera strobe, I mean). So, for me, I can see it being nice to be able to pull grabs of motion work to use as stills. Or sports or wildlife photographers who would be using natural or available light anyway, could get sequences that they wouldn't be able to get otherwise shooting at 24-60fps. But the RED One is a big camera with the battery and drive etc... I just saw it at the FCS 2 Tour. I can't see taking it out instead of a DSLR for dedicated stills work. But other cameras are likely to be coming that have the form factor of a DSLR and the frame rate of a cinema camera. I can't imagine that is too far off.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

i heard this question from a videographer at a job once. He asked how possible it was to pull stills from his dvx100, or the hvx. I told him it was a bad idea, given noise, light, etc. He asked about convergence. I told him videographers dont want there cameras working like still photography gear, and vice versa.

Red is somewhere in between, working like a cinema camera, (which is like both and neither).

I think in the long run its a non-issue simply because when you walk onto a shoot and say "i'm going to shoot stills for this ad" you shoot TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY than when shooting motion, and vice versa. If i happen to find a good frame in my red footage, great, maybe i'll use it, but i dont know if it'll be part of my workflow.

[Greg Voevodsky]

If you don't mind some motion blur and softness in your still imagery, then RED will be fine for 'stills.' However, if you want that perfect, sharp, moment captured at 1/500th of a second with little motion blur vs 1/60th of a RED Second... keep your still camera near bye. There are 2 different arts - once captures a moment - frozen - usually with high shutter rate - the other captures the motion (and sound) presenting a reality "series of moments" over time captured.

[pat@hpnc.com]

This is already being done with the HD cameras out now. For photojournalism that is. And with 4K its just going to get more common. David Leeson at the Dallas morning news is one. And the Dallas Morning News as a paper is moving to having all of their photographers shooting HD video. (I do some photojournalism on the site.) Oh and here is story on subject http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0704/the-dallas-morning-news-leading-the-way-to-the-platypus-world.html

So the person writing the article was correct. For photojournalism the Red is the next step along the path to the photojournalist using both. And of course some never will. But then again some never used any of the advances. Persoanaly when I finish getting my gear I will take both atleast for a while.

And if any one is curios here are a few of my photos. http://www.pwlawrence.com/portfolio/thumbnails.php?album=16

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Good link, thank you!

What does that paragraph mean?:

"The first breakthrough was the new, inexpensive (about $4,000) professional High Definition video cameras. HD was the key. By doubling the lines per inch in the video signal, twice as much information could be captured in the images. Coupled with new 24 Fps frame rate, this added information increased the file size of the video image. Leeson's 22-year-old son, who had been hired by The News as a video editor and technological guru, came up with a new "tool" that would allow a photographer using a combination of Final Cut Pro and Photoshop, to increase this still-frame size to an astonishing 68 megs. This was more than enough to provide five- and six-column pictures for the newspaper."

Is it some sort of HDR treatment?

Jochen

[pat@hpnc.com]

I would bet its nothing more than something like Genuine Fractals or another plugin like it. So I would think he just did some tests in final cut to export the best image. Then in photoshop he uses Genuine Fractals or another plugin like it to upsize to some an uncomprompressed tiff. And the file size does not tell you much. You can use Genuine Fractals to enlarge to almost anysize. The problem is over about double the size you can really start to tell unless maybe its a landscape. But the point is that its good enough for what they are using it for. http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=2

[pat@hpnc.com]

This topic reminds me of something. I still wonder if the Pocket Red camera will feature some highend still photography features? :)

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I'll thrown down my "2 cents":

I hate strobes! I just can't stand not being able to see my lighting for more than a quick millisecond. Blah. Continuous might be hotter, but I know for a fact that most models prefer it (imagine having a strobe aimed at you all day...). I figure with some HMI's and a Red, you could pull off some sweet high speed photography on the side :) I bet sports photographers will love using it for still purposes, especially outdoor sports where exposure isn't as big an issue.

[Poi Boy]

strobe is like any other light...you learn to see it.
-A