Red Insurance

[Floris Liesker]

Now Red offers to act as a world wide rental mediator, wouldnt it be a good idea to have some sort of Red-insurance?
I only will have 1 Red One. If the cam gets crashed while being rent out, no money in the world would be able to replace it and I would be stuck for months without a cam and a business.

A red-insurance would only replace the Red One body (while your wrecked one is being repaired) so the shoot (and your own business) can continue. The customer that rents the camera would have to insure the cam to pay for that.

Is this an idea?

[Joe Aurili]

Good point, that is big reason why I would be hesitant to rent. Also if it get stolen or "lost".

[Steve Gibby]

I carry all-risk insurance that covers my company and equipment, but in rental situations of my equipment, I will not rent it without me coming along in the package as a DIT, DP, or cinematographer, and I will require renters to also carry a specific project insurance rider that covers my equipment on their set or job location.

[Adrian Correia]

what Gibby said...wise words indeed....

[KETCH ROSSi]

Yes it is a great idea, I just responded to an E-mail from Kelly about renting my 3 RED's + all my gear from my Production company, but the insurance provided by the renters will be to pay for any damages not replacement of the cameras and I would love nothing more for RED to offer such as an Extended Insurance service that Renters will be required to purchase in order to use our RED's.

CIAO

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Michael Brennan]

Now Red offers to act as a world wide rental mediator, wouldnt it be a good idea to have some sort of Red-insurance?
I only will have 1 Red One. If the cam gets crashed while being rent out, no money in the world would be able to replace it and I would be stuck for months without a cam and a business.

A red-insurance would only replace the Red One body (while your wrecked one is being repaired) so the shoot (and your own business) can continue. The customer that rents the camera would have to insure the cam to pay for that.

Is this an idea?

Let insurance companys do insurance and RED make cameras.
The idea has been floated with Sony Fuji and Canon who have steered clear of providing replacement kit.
Sony came up with an expensive scheme for a replacement camera but only if it broke down! not if it was accidentally damaged.

But RED could offer rental (not insurance) whilst cameras are being repaired or serviced.


BTW, in Europe loss of rental (whilst a camera is being fixed) should be included in production company insurance so you are not out of pocket on renting a replacement.

But this insurance does not cover you for consequential loss ie if you lose jobs because you don't have a camera (and can't find another to rent)

Business interuption insurance would cover you but under the circumstances they may suggest you a have a backup camera before agreeing to covering you...

You may sleep better at nights if you have your own insurance to cover the kit on your premises and for your own work.


A rental contract should be signed or the insurance company won't pay up.
Get your name put on the production co insurance so you deal direct with the insurance company.

Also if you are giving big discounts, make sure you put on the contract the real rate of rental before discount, so in the event of an insurance claim you get the market rate for loss of hire.

Finally the fine print on your contract should say that discounts will be lost in the event of late payment.
Slam Dunk!


Anyway seek local pro advice.



Mike Brennan

[donatello b]

"If the cam gets crashed while being rent out"

that is why you will require the production to have full insurance including loss of rental revenue ... just like the fine print in most car rentals - not only do you pay for the damage , you also pay for loss of rental - the car rental offers you damage insurance and loss of rental coverage ( 2 different items) ... many car insurance will not cover loss of rental revenue ... but at some point insurance is going to put a max cap on what they will pay = i don't think they will pay 20K in loss revenue if they can just hand you 18k to buy a new one - not sure if they'll take into consideration there's a 6 month wait on camera ..

at one time i think ? RED mentioned something about a pool of camera's ( the REDs that were reserved and not bought) for possible loaners/rental if your's goes down..
not sure about them giving out a loaner if it is damaged while out on a rental .. perhaps they would rent or this is where the RED map networking thing could come into play ....

[Joe Aurili]

Red could replace the camera faster and less expensively then a third party insurance company could. A special warranty would be great. Say you pay $1000 for a 3 year warranty. If the camera is damaged in any way you send the camera back to RED and they fix it or provide a new one. If the camera is stolen, RED could replace it, or charge cost to replace it right away. And I trust RED more then an insurance company to make good :)

[Mark B.]

I think this boils down to getting a mammoth-sized deposit before renting out a Red camera unattended. For instance, a $50,000 deposit (per camera) could be required before rental. Weekly rental rates would be taken from that amount until such time that the camera is returned in working order. If the camera is broken upon return, then the repair costs are deducted from the 50k and the weekly rates for the camera are deducted from that as well, until such time that the camera is fixed and returned by Red. If the renter returns everything on time and in good shape, then they get their deposit back. If things go bad, you've made $50k on your Red and that's a fairly good return. Additionally, technically and according to laws against theft, the renter must return the camera even after their $50k is completely depleted. Of course that then becomes an issue of whether you want to pursue the "missing" camera or not... which could at that point be buried in a basement somewhere.

The renters may not like such a high deposit, but they'll have to learn that it's just part of the cost of shooting with professional gear when the gear is in such high demand. Hopefully the professional productions will realize that the deposit is merely a temporary speed bump in the scheme of things.

Or else... maybe a mixture of a lower deposit and renters insurance.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

depending on how much i can get for my package.. and in the case that i am not hired on as a DP/camera op. or 1st ac.. I would probably want to create a new position such as.. "camera bitch" or " camera tech" so that i would be able to go with my gear and keep a close eye.. id imagine any guy who knows anything could just rent your shit.. pay a deposit and BOOM they instantly have their own RED ONE and just jumped a huge waiting list.

[Adrian Correia]

depending on how much i can get for my package.. and in the case that i am not hired on as a DP/camera op. or 1st ac.. I would probably want to create a new position such as.. "camera bitch" or " camera tech" so that i would be able to go with my gear and keep a close eye.. id imagine any guy who knows anything could just rent your shit.. pay a deposit and BOOM they instantly have their own RED ONE and just jumped a huge waiting list.


So true! People would do this all the time with PS3 and XBox360 launchs at video rental shops....there are none available just take the rental and pay for the replacement and you've got yourself a new toy without having to wait....

[Sproketz]

Maybe Redcode ought to be rigged to check in with Red when it's fired up as the Adobe apps do. If somethings wrong, someone hasn't returned a camera on time or paid, Redcode could just be shut down from Red's end.

[Steve Gibby]

depending on how much i can get for my package.. and in the case that i am not hired on as a DP/camera op. or 1st ac.. I would probably want to create a new position such as.. "camera bitch" or " camera tech" so that i would be able to go with my gear and keep a close eye.. id imagine any guy who knows anything could just rent your shit.. pay a deposit and BOOM they instantly have their own RED ONE and just jumped a huge waiting list.

No doubt...that's one of the reasons why I posted that I won't rent my equipment without me coming along with it in some capacity...no exceptions.

[donatello b]

i don't think any "legit" production is going to put up a 50k-100k deposit on a rental camera unless that is normal in your area ... i think most of this is solved by one going out with the camera as media manager or DIT or DP etc ... if you have doubts about a production then perhaps you should stay clear ... also if you are going to go into rapid heart beats with high blood pressure when you see your RED hanging on the hood or side of a auto or 30 ft in the air on a crane you may not want to get into renting ?

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Yeah you guys have changed my mind back on that one. Originally I insisted that I would go out with my RED if I ever rented it. Then I thought, well, maybe not, I guess I could rent it without being there. Now I'm back to thinking, screw that, if I'm renting it someone is going with it anyway. It may not be me but it will be someone I trust and they will be paid separately by the production as a technical advisor on the camera, which basically might as well mean RED security ;) They are really just babysitting it, hehe. But I know people who would be happy to make a few hundred bucks a day for logging and capturing footage on set if needed or just making sure the batteries are charged, being able to help with the camera, etc.

[Floris Liesker]

Indeed, being there is the best insurance possible I guess.
As long as there is a huge waiting list the camera is just worth more than the price you've initially paid for it.
Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I'll let Kelly know my new terms for renting out my Red One.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I carry all-risk insurance that covers my company and equipment, but in rental situations of my equipment, I will not rent it without me coming along in the package as a DIT, DP, or cinematographer, and I will require renters to also carry a specific project insurance rider that covers my equipment on their set or job location.

What insurance co. do you carry and what is the monthly/amount of coverage?

[Curran Giddens]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=907&highlight=insurance

I found an old thread about insurance....

[Champe Barton]

Gibby’s advice on insurance is good. I live on the east coast and have used a variety of insurance companies over the years and in the end they all charge close to the same for similar coverage. They usually term this type of policy “Inland Marine” – nothing to do with shooting on a boat. The important thing is to find a company that is used to working with the motion picture industry and that understands the particular demands of our business. These companies understand the costs involved and the need for a speedy resolution of a claim. Be careful of their standard film packages though, in the digital age you shouldn’t be paying for faulty film stock coverage.
Also, I worked for a rental company for a short while many years ago...now I never rent my gear without me or a trusted associate on the set. I will work as DP, DIT, operator or at times even just a consultant. This is new territory for a lot of people and if you know what you're doing most people are fine with just having you there.

Champe

[Steve Gibby]

What insurance co. do you carry and what is the monthly/amount of coverage?

Right now I'm shopping for a new insurance company. I'm not happy with my previous one, but I don't want to defame them by mentioning them here. I usually carry $1 million dollar All-Risk, with liability and specifically-itemized with serial number riders for major equipment items (cam bodies, lenses, major accessories). Like you, I'm based in the Los Angeles area, and there are a lot of good insurance options here, with companies that specialize in film/TV industry contracts. For $1 million dollar All-Risk, with liability and riders for maybe $100k in equipment, rates in L.A. run from maybe $1,700 per year up to $2,800 per year.

I see Curran linked up that previous thread on insurance...that was a good thread. As I remember, a few people had some specific L.A. area companies they recommended on that thread.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Thanks Curran & Gibby.