is Red Ray limited to red-originated footage?

[J. Bernard Vallon]

I have a theory that the way Red Ray works is it leverages the fact that RAW data carries a lot of information very efficiently, so Red Ray data is still Bayer data with onboard vectors to color correct in the (obviously powerful) processors in the player. While the data won't be Camera Raw, it will probably be downsampled to something like 8 bit, it would still keep the data small, efficient, and packed with information.

This would mean that Red Ray would only work on Red-originated footage, or maybe a similar Bayer based camera.

I know Red won't reveal there secret sauce, but has anyone heard any talk of that, or has it been confirmed that this magic will work on any footage?

[Tom Lowe]

I would like to know if 35mm or other 4K footage can be transcoded to REDray and played at 4K.

[Graeme Nattress]

The RED Reel is pre-graded RGB footage.

Graeme

[Simon Blackledge]

So you can have r3d and DPX (from vfx) on the timeline, grade and render out to?? just redray? or redcode XXX ?

[Brian Harbauer]

They said it wasn't 8bit, it was 10bit. :cool:

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes it was 10bit to the projector.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

Awesome. Theory dismissed, fears subdued.

[Jerry Hofmann]

It was awesome. It was the most astounding thing I saw at NAB technologically.

I really couldn't tell it from the uncompressed. If you hadn't told me I wouldn't have been aware of a difference.

RED again leads a revolution.

Kudos to you guys.

Jerry

[mikeburton]

The RED Reel was by far the best in show. Not taking anything away from the RPP's, Ketch's masterpiece dessert or Epic/Scarlet models but, WOW:thumbsup:

The Reel looked amazing and I kept thinking after I left how much I really wanted a REDRAY like a kid waiting impatiently for christmas day. Now, I know the 4K Projector had a little something to do with it and all but thinking about it on a more dallies workflow level, it would be amazing. Think about as a DIT/Data Manager on set, setting up a tent with a 1080p or 2K (Prosumer $2,500-$5,000) projector, 80 inch screen, REDRAY, an AJA card for 10 bit processing and a laptop or desktop to drive it. Pretty incredible to me!

Now, when can I have it? Soon?

[JD Holloway]

The RED Reel is pre-graded RGB footage.

Graeme

F*&%-me...game changing.

So who will distribute, Apple, Blockbuster, Netflix....not! RedShoppe Online coming soon.

Wavelet interpolation and compression of RGB ? Like a software telecine lol?
But will Red kill or keep physical media is the question.
If you can download or stream media, why make prints?
So why then a spinning platter when you can use drives/cards or realtime DL.
Better Christmas gift potential?

[Craig Schober]

red ray is great but it's not a software solution. don't forget that any mass consumer adaption of it would require a significant investment upfront for the decoding chipset which currently runs $1,000 for redray.

now if red and apple got really close, we could see redray chips integrated into a mac or even apple tv. then we're talking!

[Christian Edwards]

Red game console please:thumbsup:

[Jason Gorman]

red ray is great but it's not a software solution. don't forget that any mass consumer adaption of it would require a significant investment upfront for the decoding chipset which currently runs $1,000 for redray.

now if red and apple got really close, we could see redray chips integrated into a mac or even apple tv. then we're talking!

$1,000 for a stand-alone professional level proprietary device.

The issue isn't a matter of whether or not they could create a software decoder, that's the easy part, the issue is how powerful a computer you would need to utilize said decoder.

Also keep in mind that on a consumer level, at least right now there is no use for 4k, there are just no affordable devices that can even display it, so it would at most be 1080p, which is around 1/4 the resolution.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Also keep in mind that on a consumer level, at least right now there is no use for 4k, there are just no affordable devices that can even display it, so it would at most be 1080p, which is around 1/4 the resolution.


While this would be a correct statement for the MOMENT - but this will change almost MUCH SOONER THAN ANYONE THINKS.

[Christian Edwards]

While this would be a correct statement for the MOMENT - but this will change almost MUCH SOONER THAN ANYONE THINKS.
care to elaborate Mark ?! :lipsrsealed:

[M Most]

While this would be a correct statement for the MOMENT - but this will change almost MUCH SOONER THAN ANYONE THINKS.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, however unrealistic that opinion might be....

[Jason Gorman]

While this would be a correct statement for the MOMENT - but this will change almost MUCH SOONER THAN ANYONE THINKS.

Even if the major brands started selling 4k displays within the next year, they would be in line with their high end displays so 1000+ computer monitors and 2000-3000+ for tv's, and at those prices, and considering most people have only recently jumped on the hd boat at all, not even half the hd tvs in homes are 1080p at this point.

By the time 4k displays even begin to mater in market saturation the power of pc's will likely have improved to the point where they can handle the 4k video.

[Joseph Ward]

Will RedRay work for 5-28K?

Hardware/Software/Firmware Upgrade compatible?

Since the new Red cameras are coming out soon.

[Deanan]

REDray 4k files look fantastic at 1080P also. So while a 4k display is ideal, it's not necessary.

Graeme already said earlier that REDray was shown with graded (ie. RGB) material but it sounds like it needs to said explicitly... REDray is not limited to RED source material (that would be pretty dumb if it were).

[Michael Brennan]

To dot the i and cross the t about the specs....

In the RED RAY workflow does the image drop to less than 10 bit at any point?
Does the resolution drop below 4k?

I understand it outputs 4k, 10bit.


Mike Brennan

[Tom Lowe]

red ray is great but it's not a software solution. don't forget that any mass consumer adaption of it would require a significant investment upfront for the decoding chipset which currently runs $1,000 for redray.

http://i40.tinypic.com/a1hk4z.png

[JD Holloway]

red ray is great but it's not a software solution. don't forget that any mass consumer adaption of it would require a significant investment upfront for the decoding chipset which currently runs $1,000 for redray.

I guess you were not around for the release of Laser disk, Betamax/VHS, and the first DVD players. A thousand dollars in 2009 money is nothing in comparison.

[Graeme Nattress]

I still have my VHS, S-VHS and laserdiscs. Back in 1988 my S-VHS edit deck was, I think £650 - about £1500 in today's money, or $2300 - ouch.

Graeme

[S. Um]

I think the technology in Red Ray is impressive, but unless Red can partner up with some of the big boys, then I think this product is going no where.

Would Red camera owners buy a Red Ray player just so they can see their movies on 4k projectors that they can't really afford? Maybe a handful. But why buy Red Ray, when all of your clients have blu ray players that are cheaper and can play commercial disks? And they can only view your movies on their 1080p TV's anyway, so there's no quality advantage with Red Ray.

In my opinion, the people with the most to gain from using Red Ray right now are the movie theaters. If Red can convince the theater chains and the movie studios that Red Ray can save them a ton of money on distribution, then they can get some sales. Since Red developed the technology on their own, they might run into some "not invented here" problems when looking for partners. But maybe that's what it takes to shake up the industry.

If they can win over the theaters, then they can approach the movie download companies, then the cable and satellite companies. These guys would love the technology to transmit their programming at lower data rates. With these volumes, the price of a Red Ray player will come down to the level of a set top box or blu ray player.

I don't think Red Ray will displace blu ray, though, at least not in the next several years. Even if the price of the players were the same, why would movie studios and consumer electronics companies alienate a large installed base of blu ray users? Especially since there is no added advantage for this marketplace. Would a 4k movie look any better than a blu ray movie on a 1080p TV screen? No. Now if display technology improves, and we start seeing TV's with higher resolution, then maybe Red has a shot here.

Just my $.02.

[JD Holloway]

In the short term RRay will not replace BRay as a domestic disk player.
Early adopters who bought into HD players saw the disk war and are way too cautious.
Many are committed to the technology they purchased. However...

HD broadcast sucks ass. Both in content and quality.

RRay could be like the Greek Airborne; "death from behind".

It has the ability to operate as a set-top-box in home theaters that are networked. This is an added advantage in the marketplace; it can deliver content that people might actually want to watch. In "HD" or better. The bandwidth of the internet can support real time 4k red ray, or conversely play a saved file. In time, this method can/probably will replace the cable networks standards for delivery. We are already used to watching programs when we want with technologies like TIVO etc. Pay for download would work well here too, high quality and fast for cheap. Cheap=good.

It has real potential in cinema projection distribution too. No doubt a 2K projector image will look great with Red Ray. With more and more 4K projectors coming to theaters (way too slowly for my liking) A cheap way to bring a 4K film scan/or digital to theaters and cinemas will be much appreciated. If we all left it to Some Other compaNY, I'm sure the cost would be outrageous, inaccessible to most, and not available till 2015 or later, depending on when the sales curve for BRay begins to level or lag.

Oh ya I almost forgot...Archiving. If RRay, as a format, is as good as everybody is saying, its worth the price of admission alone, at least in the short term.

[Tim Whitcomb]

I don't think Red Ray will displace blu ray, though, at least not in the next several years.

Blu Ray is already dying, look at the sales figures and pick up a trade mag.
and the global economy, moreso than the tech is to blame...not to mention studios (and consumers)
love the quality but hate the costs. and most dont care. CONTENT IS STILL KING.

but I also humbly believe physical media is going to be like LP's and CD's soon. cool to collect, will always have a fiercely loyal, albeit SMALL, gaggle of followers... but will become obsolete.

I too still have my VHS, S-VHS, LASERDISC players and a Record Player :thumbsup:

RED RAY has implications we all used to dream about in the 90's. Which is affordable and fast digital distribution straight to the theater... without shipping costs...without prints.

to studios that means more A and less P (for those who understand P&A Budgets)

the implications go much further than 5000 Red Camera owners imho.

its so freaking exciting... and $1000 is an absolute bargain. wish I could reserve mine now!

[Gavin Greenwalt]

REDRay would have to play back any footage because NOBODY is going to want to post a project without it being converted to RGB for their pipeline. You have to mix footage. You have to crop footage. You have to fade footage. Post production requires it to become RGB. Once it's RGB its source whether that be RED or Film is irrellevant.

It's also far more efficient to pre-grade footage and bake the color data into a lower precision color space than to keep the original file which has superfluous color information beyond that of the projection system. If it needs to be RAW then you can theoretically convert a 4K image back into 4K Raw but at a lower bit depth.