AJA card and Red [Archive]

Henk van den Doel

01-18-2007, 02:59 AM

Hi,

By now I am really looking forward to Red and I am quite sure we will pick one up soon after it's release.

We just purchased a Mac Pro, but we still have to add a card for SDI output, like an AJA or Black Magic card. Since we would really like this Mac Pro setup to be ready to work with Red when it arrives, could you please give us advice on which card to get? I noticed on Red.com that AJA was in a list of gear you use, but can we simply get any card of them and have it work properly? We will now only use it for SD output, but it has to be ready for Red...How does the transfer of data work in the Red workflow?

Cheers for any suggestions/information, we are completely in the dark here :)
All the best with Red!
--
yohenk

Sanjin Jukic

01-18-2007, 04:00 AM

they said AJA is better and Ted Schilowitz is a former AJA employee, follow the logic>>

red.com>>Gear We Use>>
http://red.com/gear-we-use.htm

Stephen Gentle

01-18-2007, 04:05 AM

If you only intend to output video with this card, it should only depend on what your NLE can output to...

-Stephen

Nick Shaw

01-18-2007, 04:16 AM

Hi Yohenk

Red have said repeatedly that they will not give exact specifications of what gear is needed until nearer delivery, when they can be more precise. The list on red.com of "gear we use" is just that, and not a definitive list of what is required.

For what it's worth, here are my thoughts:

I currently use a Decklink card for HD and SD work, and am very happy with it. For Red, however I am considering getting an AJA Kona 3 (or whatever AJA's top card is at the time) to go with the Mac Pro that I will buy. I am not 100% convinced by the quality of the down-conversion in the Decklink cards, and the options for up/down/cross conversion are greater (I believe) in the AJA products, although I have not used one.

Blackmagic Design have recently released a software update for their HD cards which alows 2k media to be played out (with some cropping) through the HD-SDI output of their cards, which was previously something only the Kona 3 could do. That closes one gap. At the moment nothing can play out from 4k media, but time and REDCODE may change that.

AJA products are more expensive, and part of the reason may be that they have more memory in them (this is speculation). Cineform have said that their wavelet compression format only works with AJA cards, not Decklink ones because of this memory limitation. Red have of course said nothing about whether this will be the case with REDCODE, but it's worth considering.

Also since Ted from Red used to work at AJA, I suspect there may be slightly closer communication for developing compatibility.

All this is of course just speculation, but I thought I'd put my 2 penneth out there. Hope it helps. Generally I would say wait as long as you can before purchasing. New and better products may come out. If you need a stop gap for SD work, Decklink SD cards are very affordable and very good. You might be better buying one of them now, and replacing it when Red ships.

Nick

EDIT
PS you asked about the transfer of data in the Red workflow. The data is just that, data, and is transferred as you would transfer data from any hard drive to a computer. You do not need a capture card to do it. Strictily if your workflow is entirely data-driven (ie your deliver format is not tape) you do not need a card at all, but I would suggest you did get one anyway for monitoring.

Henk van den Doel

01-18-2007, 06:02 AM

Excellent! Thanks for all your input guys! I think we'll wait a bit longer until more specific information from the Red team becomes available.

Cheers

dave_garcia

01-18-2007, 06:41 AM

I have an AJA LH card for use with our HVXs. We deliver mostly HD downconverted to Beata SP.

There is not a day that goes by that I'm not excited with my Kona. The downconversion is pristine and it just opens up alot of possibilities.

I have never used a Blackmagic, but I've heard enough marginally dissatisfied people talking about them and enough Kona users raving about their stuff to know I made the right decision.

We will definitely use whatever the top of the line Kona is (probably Kona 3) with the RED.

Cheers,

Dave

Graeme Nattress

01-18-2007, 06:42 AM

Just so you know why Kona3 is on the list of gear we used. At IBC we were playing out 2k downconverts of our footage from the FCP timeline. We were using the Kona3 card to do this.

If you're at all dealing with HD resolution while you're working with RED footage, a Kona3 would be a great addition to your workflow. Personally, I always wait until NAB before buying anything though....

Graeme

Clayton Harper

01-18-2007, 08:14 AM

Graeme beat me to the wait for NAB comment.

I am planning on using Redcine on an intel-based PC to do the output and moving the footage over to FCP on my decklink equipped G5.

Hopefully, later on those 8-core Pro Macs will show up to the party and I can get that and a newer post-NAB output card.

Don't the new decklink drivers support 2k now anyway? Mebbe it's only on intel.

Christopher Gosch

01-18-2007, 05:38 PM

Guess you guys don't use the Multibridge extreme from BMD. It blows the socks off of the Kona Card and is not seated in the system. We are running it for finishing HD 10 bit and HDCAM SR right now. A full FCP system with 6 terrabytes of HD space in one room and the second room is running 4 terrabytes of HD Space. no issues on either system. (the 4 terrabyte is a PPC G5 dual 2.7 and the 6 terrabyte is a new Mac Pro Quad with 8 gigs of ram. The up and downconversions are flawless and the system works with almost no down time. We were using AVID symphony until this and find it as good for 1/8 the cost of the upgrade to the DS.

MikeCurtis

01-19-2007, 07:48 AM

lordnumberzero - that works, so long as the codec you are cooking to for the Mac is available on the PC. Hopefully, no gamma shifts cross platforms as well.

One other note - BMD updated their drivers to include 2K output to HD-SDI and HD component analog - but AFAIK it doesn't let you adjust the crop, just center cuts (AJA lets you pick where you bias the cut). Haven't tried it yet, but looks interesting.

Lucas Wilson

01-19-2007, 08:02 AM

Just thought I'd throw in...

SCRATCH will support REDCODE RAW natively.

SCRATCH can currently output (via the NVidia QuadroFX 4500-SDI) from 2K to any SMPTE format in realtime... NTSC, PAL, 1080i, 1080p, 720p, etc, etc.

Ergo...

As long as the decode of REDCODE RAW is realtime (which I believe it will be!) then you will be able to output - with no rendering - a realtime video deliverable with optional burn-in to NTSC, PAL, or HD-flavor-du-jour from REDCODE RAW.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles
lucas*at*assimilateinc*dot*com

Rob Lohman

01-19-2007, 09:13 AM

Performance of REDCODE RAW/RGB is highly depended of the number of processors and the speed of them. We're not ready to give numbers or guarantees yet for real time performance and so on (depends on a lot of variables). We're still busy with coding, optimizing, testing and profiling.

Evin Grant

01-19-2007, 09:26 AM

Luki, any chance of a Reduser discount or maybe a "Indie" version of scratch designed for desktop computers priced in the $2K range for us mortals?

Albert Cheng

01-19-2007, 10:14 AM

I'm with Evan. What is it gonna take to get our own Scratch system up and running. I really want to learn Scratch to use alongside my Red. I'm hoping under $10k

Roxco

01-19-2007, 11:22 AM

I was looking into using a Black Magic Intensity set of cards to switch/overlay graphics over a RED converted to HDMI and a MacPro converted to HDMI to drive a set of 1080P Projectors.

Any thoughts on how to get easily to HDMI with a RED and what live HD graphics software solution is best to supply the second HDMI source from a Mac. I guess it could be anything tied to another Intensity card for output.

Has anyone here used Isadora? http://www.troikatronix.com/isadora.html

Thanks for any input or ideas,

Rosco

Blair S. Paulsen

01-19-2007, 04:07 PM

I believe the RedOne has an HDMI out, presumably limited to 1080p, already built in.

Damien Molineaux

01-19-2007, 04:46 PM

I believe the RedOne has an HDMI out, presumably limited to 1080p, already built in.

I don't recall, anybody else know about this ?

Cheers,
Damien

Roxco

01-19-2007, 04:51 PM

It looks like the Intensity "only" does 1080i and 720p so maybe I don't have any easy way to overlay graphics on a RED output yet.

Hoping for the moon for $500, but it is still a cool HDMI solution pre NAB.

Rosco

Lucas Wilson

01-19-2007, 09:14 PM

What is it gonna take to get our own Scratch system up and running. I really want to learn Scratch to use alongside my Red. I'm hoping under $10k

Luki, any chance of a Reduser discount or maybe a "Indie" version of scratch designed for desktop computers priced in the $2K range for us mortals?

Guys,

Much like buying a RED ONE, there is a lot more to think about than just the "purchase of the camera" in setting up a SCRATCH system. Many times, the software is the least of your financial worries.

Computer
What CPU and config? Realtime playback (potential) of REDCODE RAW, or certainly realtime RGB at high resolutions requires a top-performance dual-CPU single- or multi-core Intel Mac or Intel/AMD WinXP tower. Those start at several thousand dollars.

Graphics Card
There are a lot of great graphics card. But, realtime performance for color correction at high resolutions must be a Quadro-level card from NVidia. Cannot be ATI, and cannot be mobo-integrated graphics. Must be a separate PCI-e graphics card. Another thousand or two.

For realtime video output that I mentioned in this thread, must be a QuadroFX 4500-SDI. Those are about $6K list price. And they are not certified by NVidia or Apple for Intel Macs. They probably will be eventually... and it probably will work now... but you should intimately familiarize yourself with how Apple feels about supporting non-certified configurations before you take that chance. Caveat Emptor. WinXP - no problem.

Of course - this is for realtime, no-render performance. There are great solutions from AJA, Blackmagic, and Bluefish444 that do high-quality video I/O, but (at least for SCRATCH) will require a render. For most people though, this is perfectly acceptable!

Storage
Buying storage is like buying a car. It can be a high-capacity USB stick, or a multi-terabyte clustered Bright Systems SAN with Isilon NAS backup. One is about 100 - 200 bucks. One is about 100,000 - 200,000 bucks.

If realtime RGB performance at 4K is a requirement, that means storage with sustained reads at about 1.2GB/s. (that's gigaBYTES, folks...) This is a non-trivial setup, and it's damned expensive. Realtime RGB at 2K requires about 300MB/s sustained. That's not too hard to do, but it's at least $8 - 10K for starters.

----

So... by the time you've configured a system with enough storage to hold a reasonable amount of work at 2K RGB with realtime video output and conversion... you've dropped about $20K.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about realtime performance. Can you spec a system for much cheaper that will do 2K and output to video? Absolutely... it will just be slower and take longer to work with.

As far as SCRATCH prices... well... as Jim says, "we're learning every day and reconfiguring our strategy and options on a regular basis..."

Cheers,

Lucas Wilson
------------
Kids in Bed, Martini in Hand.
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles

Beatrice Palicka

01-19-2007, 10:30 PM

Hi Lucas,

Check your PM box. I've sent you a message.

Thanks,

Bea

Rob Lohman

01-20-2007, 04:08 AM

I believe the RedOne has an HDMI out, presumably limited to 1080p, already built in.

I don't recall, anybody else know about this ?

Cheers,
Damien

Yes, the camera has HDMI out. I don't know what the limits are.

Albert Cheng

01-21-2007, 04:26 AM

Thanks Lucas. I really appreciate you chiming in to help us figure out our potential workflow requirements.

Actually, I was referring more on the price of the Scratch software itself. From what I remember you saying at a workshop, the price is flexible on a case by case basis. But you bring up some great points that I hadn't considered.

I currently have a Mac Quad Core (8Gb ram) with a QuadroFX 4500. Unfortunately, not the SDI version which looks new to market. My requirements is to work at real time 2K (ideally 4k) using Redcode Raw. It sounds like this is possible with the newer Quadro, in which case, it would be my next investment.

If we plan on working Redcode Raw, our cost of entry goes down dramatically, isn't that right? I'm trying to figure out the cheapest real-time performance setup using currently owned hardware.

Simon Blackledge

01-22-2007, 02:01 PM

Fast but cheap Raid wise go eSata into a port multiplied card.

there are a few makes doin 10x drive sata raids capable of 300-450 Mbs, you could of course attach 2.. but I doubt you'll get 900Mbs..maybe 500>650Mbs still not enough for 4k.

Mind if your doing a 4K job I'd expect they are paying well ;)

I don't get why with an Nvidia 4500 sdi there is no rendering.. but if you have a normal non SDI 4500 and a Kona3 with SDI out then you cannot do realtime :-/

Besides doesn't Discreet Lustre use an OEM AJA card?

Albert Cheng

01-22-2007, 08:27 PM

Yeah funny huh.

And Nope. Lustre uses the Quadro 4500 SDI too. I guess that's the card to get.

Oh and it looks like there's no Mac version of Scratch so I'm out of luck there. I can't even use my PPC Quad Mac for Redcine! Oh the pain.

Lucas Wilson

01-22-2007, 08:38 PM

...I don't get why with an Nvidia 4500 sdi there is no rendering.. but if you have a normal non SDI 4500 and a Kona3 with SDI out then you cannot do realtime :-/

Because if you are a true native GPU application (like SCRATCH) then you don't have to go back out of the card in order to feed the video output. The NVidia 4500 feeds the SDI daughtercard with a proprietary connection that is outside the bus structure of the CPU, and as such suffers no lag or other processing time. But, you have to utilize the GPU fairly efficiently to do this.

If you have a non-SDI 4500 and a Kona3 card.... well... they don't speak the same language. There has to be some translation in order to get from the native NVidia card, back through the bus, then to the Kona card.

It's very analagous to langauge. When trying to communicate, think about the difference between speaking native to native (NVidia -> NVidia) as opposed to a translator in between (NVidia -> host bus -> AJA) One is realtime communication. One is not.

Besides doesn't Discreet Lustre use an OEM AJA card?

Yes. And on Lustre - preview is realtime... because that goes through the 4500. But laying off to tape is not - it has to be rendered... because that goes through the "translation" process to get to AJA.

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles

Simon Blackledge

01-23-2007, 02:58 AM

Lucas Wilson

01-23-2007, 06:12 AM

Luki thanks for clearing that up :) I understand now.

Maybe we can get one of these working on the mac then ?

http://store.nvidia.com/servlet/SecureControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Locale=en_US&id=ProductDetailsPage&SiteID=nvidia&productID=49538900&Env=BASE

We have been doing a lot of testing w/Quadroplex. As far as getting it on the Mac, I'd talk to NVidia. :)

Lucas

sean90291

01-23-2007, 12:11 PM

Okay, stepping back from some of the highly technical discussion, I just gotta ask something basic here: is the AJA card something that is added to a system simply to get files from the Red camera into RedCine on my computer? So the AJA card grapples with the giant resolution images at the file transfer stage (into the computer) in a way that a really good PC just can't handle? I'm wondering if the AJA necessary because even a new quadcore PC will not be able to ingest 4K into RedCine, or maybe the AJA just allows the process to be handled faster. After the files are in the PC, my impression is the AJA is no longer needed (unless you're outputting to tape or something at a 2K or 4K resolution).

Thank you!

Graeme Nattress

01-23-2007, 12:20 PM

Roxco

01-23-2007, 12:24 PM

You don't need an AJA card, it won't be used to get RED images into your computer, and it won't processing things faster.

What it will do is, if you're working in HD, allow you to view your project on a proper HD monitor, and output to a proper HD deck.

Grame

Hopefully the Intensity card from BMD will be considered a proper HD deck?

Rosco

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

Graeme Nattress

01-23-2007, 12:28 PM

Chris Kenny

01-23-2007, 12:29 PM

You don't need an AJA card, it won't be used to get RED images into your computer, and it won't processing things faster.

What it will do is, if you're working in HD, allow you to view your project on a proper HD monitor, and output to a proper HD deck.

Can the camera do this as well? Can I copy a REDCODE RGB file created on a computer onto a REDDRIVE, hook the drive up to the camera, and play the footage out through HD-SDI? There doesn't seem to be any technical reason why this wouldn't work, and it would be handy. (Particularly on the road. I don't know about other people, but I find I have trouble fitting a Mac Pro tower into my luggage.)

Graeme Nattress

01-23-2007, 12:34 PM

Don't know about camera playback in that way. I wonder if Stuart can help?

Graeme

Roxco

01-23-2007, 12:37 PM

Eh? I don't get you. Intensity is a capture / playback card. We're not talking about REDCINE here, but your NLE. If your NLE supports a Kona or Intensity, then it could be useful for HD playback to a monitor or HD deck.

Graeme

I no longer think in terms of HD decks but instead I think of using of Mac Hard Drives. If the port is hot then I'll want to record it to a Mac. I'm not trying to replace REDCine, but just make sure I have a separate copy - just like going to a HD deck, but it's not the cost of an HD deck.

I hope this makes sense even though it works around REDCine,

Rosco

Antoine Baumann

01-23-2007, 12:40 PM

The red cam is recording to hard drives or flash mermory, then you just have to plug those to your computer and copy them to your local drives (or raid system). There is no card needed.
Then you might want to render the images in redcine, with gamma and other color correction process on them, in both full 4k (or 2k if you are going for a 2k post) and HD proxi for editing. But that is only one way to go.

For me the AJA card is first for preview on a monitor (not only on your computer) through the SDI port. Then it will be needed to output to tape. But it has also engine that make possible real time effects, etc...
But using Premiere pro you can set to the resolution up to 4096 pixels, and render it out, without any card. So if you do not need to preview on a monitor, or output to tape (or even color correct in real time), then I think you can skip the AJA card (or any other brand). You could make a 4k project, import HD proxy, make your editing, and when finished, reconnect the clips to the 4k version, and render it out (or even find a better way).

My 2 cents,
antoine.

Antoine Baumann

01-23-2007, 12:40 PM

ach a lot of answear before I got to post mine. :-))

sean90291

01-23-2007, 12:49 PM

You don't need an AJA card, it won't be used to get RED images into your computer, and it won't processing things faster.

What it will do is, if you're working in HD, allow you to view your project on a proper HD monitor, and output to a proper HD deck.

Grame

Thanks Graeme. So succinct. Now I'm getting it.

If any folks are interested in what a few other pros are saying about HD monitors and HD post, check out the DV Expo panel discussion from DV.com here:

http://www.pqhp.com/nbm/dvx06/topic3.htm#

Given that I won't be using a pro HD monitor but some kind of LCD monitor or the Dell 2405 for my editing (probably editing AND finishing at 1080p with final product on HD DVD), I wonder if I'll need an AJA card at all; although, one monitor solution the DV Expo panel guys suggest is using an AJA converter between a computer and an LCD monitor.

Antoine Baumann

01-23-2007, 12:50 PM

I no longer think in terms of HD decks but instead I think of using of Mac Hard Drives.

Not sure I understood well, but for me there shouldn't be need for tape anymore. record on HDD, edit on HDD, output to HDD, then still scan to film, but backup original raw frames to HDD. But if you need to output to tape for TV, that's an other story. And I am sure, I didn't think to everything as well.

sean90291

01-23-2007, 03:51 PM

I sort of buried this question in one of my posts above, but I decided to ask it outright just to finally clarify the need for an AJA card (or not):

I won't be using a pro HD monitor but some kind of LCD monitor or the Dell 2405 for my editing (probably editing AND finishing at 1080p with final product on HD DVD) using Avid Media Composer. Will I need an AJA card/converter at all?

Graeme Nattress

01-23-2007, 04:03 PM

Sean - probably not. I'm assuming your NLE will drive the LCD as a second monitor on the graphics card?

Graeme

sean90291

01-23-2007, 04:23 PM

Thanks again Graeme. Yeah, Avid plus an nVidia graphics card would drive an LCD as second monitor.

Graeme Nattress

01-23-2007, 04:25 PM

Sean, you should be fine.

Graeme

Joe Carney

01-23-2007, 07:16 PM

Lucas Wilson

01-24-2007, 06:32 AM

If I have the money, I'm thinking about using Boxx systems. Expensive, but seem to have established a great reputation.

Luki, has Assimilate been looking at the new generation of DirectX10 cards? Seems like they could be an affordable alternative
to expensive OpenGL cards.

Hi Zeke,

You're right - BOXX is a good company with a deservedly good reputation. Quite a few of our customers own BOXX systems.

DX10 cards - we are looking at DX10, but for many reasons - OGL is a better way to go at the high-end of high-performance.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles

Stuart English

01-24-2007, 01:53 PM

Joe Carney

01-24-2007, 07:11 PM

Hi Zeke,

You're right - BOXX is a good company with a deservedly good reputation. Quite a few of our customers own BOXX systems.

DX10 cards - we are looking at DX10, but for many reasons - OGL is a better way to go at the high-end of high-performance.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles

Do the current crop of high end OpenGL cards support higher than 8bit per channel color? (I've neve owned one).

Joe C.

Lucas Wilson

01-24-2007, 10:19 PM

Do the current crop of high end OpenGL cards support higher than 8bit per channel color? (I've neve owned one).

Joe... depends on what you mean.

Processing? Absolutely. If utilized properly, everything on the Quadro GPUs is done at 32-bit float.

Realtime Output? Yes... the FX4500/5500-SDI can output 10-bit 4:4:4 at up to 2048x1080. The DVI connectors are certainly capable of greater than 8-bit, but... what monitor will you use? Every LCD on the planet is 8-bit, and their EDIDs correctly report 8-bit. Analog CRTs certainly don't have that issue, but they are a dying (and no longer manufactured) breed.

Rendered Output? See "Processing" comment. :)

Lucas Wilson
-------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles

Chris Kenny

01-25-2007, 02:24 AM

Chris, if I understand your request (play REDCINE REDCODE RGB file back via the camera) this isn't likely to be honest.

A camera original RGB recorded file, yes; but a camera original recorded RAW file converted to RGB in REDCINE, not likely to work.

We do have a bunch of programming geniuses here, but once its past the camera into the post production chain we wouldn't normally care....

We'll keep it in mind though - you never know.

I'm just thinking that if I'm on the road with just a laptop (no AJA card, etc.), this might be a convenient way to get edited footage out to a monitor or deck.

It's not really a big deal if the camera can't do this, though. There are DVI -> HD-SDI converters that are easily portable, and DVI/HDMI ports are popping up on everything these days anyway, so it should be pretty easy to just go straight out of a laptop.

Karl H

01-25-2007, 06:35 AM

Often editing cards are used to maximize the performance of realtime playback/effects; like Matrox Axio....

Are Red working with any maufacurers to provide any kind of acceleration with Redcode?

Is Redcode performance, rendering, and fx on the timeline based purely the CPU/GPU power? or will a dedicated editing card help? (if not now, anything in the pipline?)

If the answer is 'no' then what is the advanatge of a Kona 3 over something cheaper like blackmagic when outputing redcode 2k to a monitor or deck?

thanks for any insights...

Joe Carney

01-25-2007, 06:38 PM

Joe... depends on what you mean.

Processing? Absolutely. If utilized properly, everything on the Quadro GPUs is done at 32-bit float.

Realtime Output? Yes... the FX4500/5500-SDI can output 10-bit 4:4:4 at up to 2048x1080. The DVI connectors are certainly capable of greater than 8-bit, but... what monitor will you use? Every LCD on the planet is 8-bit, and their EDIDs correctly report 8-bit. Analog CRTs certainly don't have that issue, but they are a dying (and no longer manufactured) breed.

Rendered Output? See "Processing" comment. :)

Lucas Wilson
-------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles
Thanks, I was just wondering. 32bitfpp per channel is more than good enough.
I thought the JVC lcd studio monitor supported 10bit. It has SDI input support (as an option).

GlennChan

01-25-2007, 10:06 PM

Every LCD on the planet is 8-bit

NEC seems to have a 10-bit panel... I wonder if it is useful for film/video applications?

2- The JVC LCD studio monitor probably supports 10-bit SDI input. The panel itself is likely 8-bit, with the effective performance likely lower than that after calibration LUTs.

Lucas Wilson

01-26-2007, 12:55 AM

NEC seems to have a 10-bit panel... I wonder if it is useful for film/video applications?

2- The JVC LCD studio monitor probably supports 10-bit SDI input. The panel itself is likely 8-bit, with the effective performance likely lower than that after calibration LUTs.

Glenn - Looking at:

http://www.nec-lcd.com/en/products/monitor.html
http://www.nec-lcd.com/en/products/industrial.html
http://www.nec-lcd.com/en/products/mobile.html

Everything is 8-bit or lower. Can you point me to info about the NEC panel? If there is truly a 10-bit LCD out there, that means some fundamental technology and manufacturing shifts, and would be huge news...

JVC panel... is a lot like other studio-quality LCD panels, like eCinema and CineTal. They support 10-bit SDI input, but only display at 8-bit.

Lucas

Jeff Kilgroe

01-26-2007, 07:39 AM

NEC has 10-bit color processing on some of their higher-end LCD monitors, but in the end, the display panel itself is still 8-bit. They're not unique in this regard, most LCD TVs and better LCD displays out there have 10 or 12 bit color processing via HDMI and DVI inputs. ...The display panels are all still limited to 8-bit.

There are currently no LCD panels on the market from any manufacturer that display in excess of 8bits per channel. None. Nada. However, such displays are coming... 10bpc LCDs with 120Hz refresh have been demonstrated, but are mostly 768p/1080p panels targeted for HDTV use and we'll see a couple from makers like SHARP later this year. Don't know about upcoming computer monitor panels with higher resolutions... ChiMei, Samsung have both shown "4K" panels. Hitachi and Samsung have both shown 200ppi+ panels (Hitachi used to produce the 22" 3840x2400 panel for the IBM / ViewSonic QWUXGA display). Going to be another interesting year.