Ports and data rate

[Pierce Cook]

When I was finally done constructing this it was far more complicated that I intended. Alas...

I have the impression from the note on this (http://www.red.com/store/product_detail/18) page, that RED RAW is the factory installed option, and removes RED FLASH options from system configuration.

Will I then have to buy a second RED if I want flash options? Does this mean I can't use RED Drives, either, with the RAW configuration?

The raw port comes with the necessary cables to plug into the appropriate computer or deck, so why then would I need a separate RED RAW port? Is the $6,500 for the RAW port included in the $17,500 tag, then, too?

I realize I'm probably getting a little redundant so I'll leave it there and see where it takes me for now, but lastly, do we know official data rates? On the workflow section of the site it indicates that 4k Redcode Raw is 28mb/sec. Just wanting to double check as that's significantly lower than I had thought.

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Good luck with the approaching launch guys; I'm looking forward to what RED has to offer!

[Nick Shaw]

4k 24fps REDCODE RAW is 28 MB/s (bytes not bits) although that may change. The RAW port is not included in the $17500, but is not needed to use RED-DRIVES. It is for uncompressed RAW, not REDCODE RAW. It needs to be factory installed, and does go in the same place the Flash modules do, so you can't have both.

[Rob Lohman]

1) RED Drives will work with either FLASH or the RAW port option

2) Yes, RAW port is a factory option

3) Yes, you cannot have FLASH and RAW port at the same time

The camera has no standard RAW port. So if you want one, you're gonna need to add that RAW port option (the $6500 is additional) and get the RED-RAID solution.

However, most people will not need that option. Just shoot REDCODE RAW to flash or RED-DRIVE.

Yes, we are looking in the 20 - 30 MB/s range for 24 fps.

[ianfreeze]

So, If i had the Red Raw Port option, I could record to the Red Drive and record Uncompressed Raw data to it....for about 1 second before the drives were full. Are the Red Drive housings able to have different drives put in them as long as they are of the 2.5" variety?

[PaulClements]

No you would record to a RAID, at some point in the future as Rob says there'll be a RedRaid which will be a device for backing up huge amounts of data uncompressed.

[ianfreeze]

In the above post it says that the Red Drive will be able to attach to the Raw Port, forgive my math, I've been reading about all the different options for recording the past few days trying to wrap my head around it. I just got mixed up, with a 320 gig drive you'd get about 1.5 minutes of record time to the red drive? Is this correct or am I way off again?

That being said, if the drive dimensions in it were upped to 3.5" two of those hitachi 1TB drives could be dropped in to give you considerablely more record time and a hand held option for Raw Data recording.

I know theres a ton of speculation going around on the boards here, and I don't mean to add to it. I'm just wondering.

I appreciate the heads up.

[esmilis]

Red Drive is a mini raid containing 2 sata drives 160gb each that are capable recording about 3 hours of redcode raw. To record raw you need much bigger raid array, because of huge datarate. Paul said that probably eventually red will make this.

[Nick Shaw]

In the above post it says that the Red Drive will be able to attach to the Raw Port

No, the RED-DRIVE can be connected to the camera (via eSATA) whether the RAW port or FLASH module is chosen, but it does not connect to the RAW port. That's what Rob meant.

[Pierce Cook]

Lets take the median 25MB/sec data rate of REDCODE RAW then and apply it to a 320GB drive. If 1 gigabyte = 1,024 megabytes, thats (rounding way down) 320,000MB of space. Divided by 25 thats 12,800 seconds or 212 minutes or roughly 3.5 hours??? That sounds exciting but I think I'm off.

Also, as it stands then we'd need the $6,500 port to shoot 120 fps at 2k or 60fps at 4k?

[ianfreeze]

No, the RED-DRIVE can be connected to the camera (via eSATA) whether the RAW port or FLASH module is chosen, but it does not connect to the RAW port. That's what Rob meant.



AH. That clears it up for me. Thank you.

[Rob Lohman]

Nick is correct.

[Pierce Cook]

I know I'm stepping over myself here slightly, but the RED Flash options (for the additional flash media) are additional recording options, yes? The camera stores settings etc on the hardware so the flash module purchases may not be necessary by some of us getting the RED Drive or RED Ram options? RED Ram I imagine being best for Stedicam type work and the like?

[Costelloe Michael]

Red Ram is particularly suited to any shooting that will put physical stress on the media and therefore possibly inhibit recording, vehicle or mounted shooting, or if you need lightweight option.

Mike EC

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Lets take the median 25MB/sec data rate of REDCODE RAW then and apply it to a 320GB drive. If 1 gigabyte = 1,024 megabytes, thats (rounding way down) 320,000MB of space. Divided by 25 thats 12,800 seconds or 212 minutes or roughly 3.5 hours??? That sounds exciting but I think I'm off.

Also, as it stands then we'd need the $6,500 port to shoot 120 fps at 2k or 60fps at 4k?

Yes that is all correct.

A two disk eSata 2.5" HDD RAID should be able to handle 30MBs without any problems. And yes 212 minutes is an accurate estimate.

If you want 120fps 2k or 60fps 4k you will indeed require the Uncompressed RAW port since the processors onboard are unable to encode that much data in real-time.

Although a 350 GB hard drive could theoretically store a few seconds of uncompressed 4k, the write speeds are insufficient to record in real-time.

Maybe in the future RED will release a middle option: Real-Time REDCode software encoding from the RAW port. That way a high-end 16 core, GPU accellerated workstation could encode 60fps 4k into a more maneagable ~90MBs REDCode. Maybe someday.

[David Newman]

>Maybe in the future RED will release a middle option: Real-Time REDCode software encoding from the RAW port. That way a high-end 16 core, GPU accellerated workstation could encode 60fps 4k into a more maneagable ~90MBs REDCode. Maybe someday.

In the meantime, hooking up a Wafian recorder or similar capturing CF RAW would be option. :)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

What sort of interface would you need though to record to the Wafian? Would you use a PC and a Gigabit card as a passthrough? Or is the Uncompressed RAW port on the RED camera non-proprietary?

[David Newman]

All good questions, as the RAW port has not been revealed, we don't have these answers. But as long as the recieving end can be plugged into a PCI-e slot, we will be able to encode the RAW stream on the fly. Real-time software encoding of 60p 4K will require 8 core class systems, but they aren't so uncommmon these days.